High school condones drunk driving

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**Yodhrin**

nkelsch wrote:
If the cab knew for a fact you were under 21, a large number of cab companies have polices where they are to report you and hand you over to police by having them waiting for you when they drop you off.

They just report you to their dispatcher who calls the police to investigate. There are lots of campaigns with cab companies around prom and graduation where when cabs are called for underage parties, they call the police as there is a community enforcement partnership going on.

It all depends what the local jurisdiction feels like cracking down on at any given time.

Wow, that sounds positively dystopian to me. It's all very Victorian, this idea that some parts of America(and a few in the UK, I'm not nation-bashing) have that everyone has a right to intrude into other people's affairs over the most minor things if they get it into their head that there's something they find morally objectionable going on.

Round my bit when I was a kid, any cabbie that called the polis over something so ludicrously minor as a few kids having a party(for its own sake I mean, if they're playing music stupidly loud or pissing in the street or something fine, but not just because...*dun dun dun* someone under 18 is drinking!) would have been laughed at. I remember once me and a few mates were "caught" by a couple of officers, and the new-guy was all fired up and ready to haul us in, the more experienced one looked at him like he was a complete numptie and told him to can it, then turned to us and just said "if you walk off, we'll assume those bottles all about you were left here by hobos, and I am pointedly not noticing that "tobacco" tin on the wall there, so shove it in your pocket before I'm forced to and get going"

**KingCracker**

My line of thinking is if someone does anything NOT on school grounds or wearing school attire, then the schools can go frack itself. They are there to teach the kids, nothing more. Not only do I find it ridiculous that the kids that were drinking getting punished by the school, but for gak sake, this girl was a designated driver!

Lets just send all the wrong messages to other kids in these situations

**timetowaste85**

She wasn't even a DD! She wasn't at the party, she was called by a friend who was still "with it" enough to know she shouldn't drive, and she probably saved the girls life by picking her up. She wasn't engaging in criminal activity, she was a hero. Think about how many lives she saved that night: her drunk friend, as aell as anyone on the road between the party and the friend's home. Her friend was surely in the wrong, but this girl wasn't. The people saying she deserved to be punished, here and IRL, are pathetic.

**Frazzled**

Grey Templar wrote:
A more correct title would be "High School discourages designated drivers"

That's almost as bad.

Agreed. Fire everyone. Start over.
The nanny state school has no jurisdiction to begin with. Its not a school event.

**Alfndrate**

So I did a little digging. Miss Cox attends North Andover High School. NAHS's athletic handbook has a few things about alcohol and drugs in their code of conduct for athletic participation. I've bolded the important part, and underlined the 'nanny state' part. I realize that yes, the school is under no obligation to provide sports for their students and you do agree to follow these rules, but this is a zero tolerance policy that doesn't need to be as heavy handed as it is. If the school took a few seconds to hear out the story, they might not seem like colossal dicks. Yes Erin Cox was in violation of the Athletic Code of Conduct by going and picking up her friend at the party at the wrong time, but the school doesn't have any reason to control what the students do in their own time. If they students were caught and taken in for underage (which Miss Cox was not) then yeah, suspend them for a few games, take away their ability to play, but don't punish a girl because she was willing to help a friend get home safe.

The North Andover High School standard is designed to encourage responsible and safe decision making by all students and to promote a positive learning environment within the North Andover community. The North Andover Public Schools maintains that the possession and/or us
e of illicit drugs and unlawful possession and/or use of alcohol and tobacco by minors/students is wrong and can be physically and/or emotionally harmful to students. Therefore, North Andover High School has strict rules against being knowingly in the unlawful presence of and/or possession, sale, transfer, and/or use of these substances, whether or not they are on school property or at a school function. North Andover High School, as a member of the MIAA, meets or exceeds their standards for code of conduct and discipline.
1. Student athletes are subject to school rules and regulations governing student behavior as cited in the NAHS Student Handbook and by the NAHS Athletic
Handbook. All participants are reminded that they must be good citizens in order to represent their school and community in athletic activities. Violations of school rules resulting in suspension from school will automatically preclude student involvement in co-curricular and/or athletic activities for the length of the suspension.
2. The Education Reform Bill, effective June 18, 1993, Section 37H1/2 of Section 35, states that any student in grades 9 - 12 who is found on school premises or at a
school sponsored or school related event, including athletic games, in possession of a controlled substance including, but not limited to, marijuana, steroids, cocaine, or heroin, may be subject to expulsion from the school in accordance
with procedures established by state and/or federal laws.
3. Students should be aware that if they are part of a group that is engaged in activities contrary to school rules, they may come under suspicion and be subject to investigation if that is deemed appropriate by the administration. It is wise, therefore, either to prevent the wrongdoing, or failing that, to remove one’s self from the group as soon as possible without putting one’s self at risk

**hotsauceman1**

Well, over here you can be punished in extra curriculars if you get caught drunk or high by the police. The school does not want a drunk representing them to other schools. Besides I think drinking that hard should be punished as hard as possible by as many people so schools should punish them by removing extra curricular, they are not a right after all.

Now this? This is stupid to all hell, Do something right, get punished.

**nkelsch**

The 'correct' thing is to be honest with your parents, and tell them who can alert other parents to go get their drunk children. She didn't do anything right. If my parents had found out I left the house late at night as a teen to drive a car to go pick up drunk teens, it would have been my ass.

I was once tricked into picking up some friends from a Dennys where they had all done some drugs and were kinda freaking out. I didn't know until we were driving home and one of them offered a ride to a crackhead who barged in my vehicle before I knew what was going on. I couldn't get him out of my car and he was getting a little crazy and violent and had a weapon. (pre-cell phones, no way to call police) So we had to drive to a bad part of town to drop him off, afterwards they told me they were doing drugs and were sorry. I told my parents who grounded me and called all their parents.

Teens drinking and on drugs are not appropriate for a teen to be handling in that condition. She may have felt she was doing the right thing, but she was putting herself and them in danger. The correct behavior would have been to notify the kids parents.

And all schools have Honor codes. If you don't like it, then don't sign it and don't participate in any school events or homeschool.

Colleges have honor codes too as an easy out to 'throw people out' if needed. Companies in the real world also will fire you for personal behavior outside work. So why not get people trained at a young age that personal actions have consequences and they really do have no personal freedom in our society.

**AlmightyWalrus**

nkelsch wrote:
The 'correct' thing is to be honest with your parents, and tell them who can alert other parents to go get their drunk children. She didn't do anything right. If my parents had found out I left the house late at night as a teen to drive a car to go pick up drunk teens, it would have been my ass.

Whereas my own parents would've been sensible about it and realized that it's better that I go pick them up than them driving drunk. If the persons calling/texting are sane enough to realize that they probably shouldn't be driving anywhere on their own and that they probably should ask someone sober for help I don't see the problem with them drinking in the first place, as they're obviously doing so in a senbible manner (and I say this as someone who doesn't drink at all).

**Frazzled**

Alfndrate wrote:
So I did a little digging. Miss Cox attends North Andover High School. NAHS's athletic handbook has a few things about alcohol and drugs in their code of conduct for athletic participation. I've bolded the important part, and underlined the 'nanny state' part. I realize that yes, the school is under no obligation to provide sports for their students and you do agree to follow these rules, but this is a zero tolerance policy that doesn't need to be as heavy handed as it is. If the school took a few seconds to hear out the story, they might not seem like colossal dicks. Yes Erin Cox was in violation of the Athletic Code of Conduct by going and picking up her friend at the party at the wrong time, but the school doesn't have any reason to control what the students do in their own time. If they students were caught and taken in for underage (which Miss Cox was not) then yeah, suspend them for a few games, take away their ability to play, but don't punish a girl because she was willing to help a friend get home safe.

The North Andover High School standard is designed to encourage responsible and safe decision making by all students and to promote a positive learning environment within the North Andover community. The North Andover Public Schools maintains that the possession and/or us
e of illicit drugs and unlawful possession and/or use of alcohol and tobacco by minors/students is wrong and can be physically and/or emotionally harmful to students. Therefore, North Andover High School has strict rules against being knowingly in the unlawful presence of and/or possession, sale, transfer, and/or use of these substances, whether or not they are on school property or at a school function. North Andover High School, as a member of the MIAA, meets or exceeds their standards for code of conduct and discipline.
1. Student athletes are subject to school rules and regulations governing student behavior as cited in the NAHS Student Handbook and by the NAHS Athletic
Handbook. All participants are reminded that they must be good citizens in order to represent their school and community in athletic activities. Violations of school rules resulting in suspension from school will automatically preclude student involvement in co-curricular and/or athletic activities for the length of the suspension.
2. The Education Reform Bill, effective June 18, 1993, Section 37H1/2 of Section 35, states that any student in grades 9 - 12 who is found on school premises or at a
school sponsored or school related event, including athletic games, in possession of a controlled substance including, but not limited to, marijuana, steroids, cocaine, or heroin, may be subject to expulsion from the school in accordance
with procedures established by state and/or federal laws.
3. Students should be aware that if they are part of a group that is engaged in activities contrary to school rules, they may come under suspicion and be subject to investigation if that is deemed appropriate by the administration. It is wise, therefore, either to prevent the wrongdoing, or failing that, to remove one’s self from the group as soon as possible without putting one’s self at risk

Actually in the presence of is ambiguous. She was transport.

**Alfndrate**

Frazzled wrote:
Actually in the presence of is ambiguous. She was transport.

Agreed, it's not like she was there at the party hanging out with her friends but not drinking when the cops showed up. Also is it possible for a minor to be in the unlawful presence of alcohol? Does it become unlawful presence if little Billy got his hands on a 40oz and Timmy is watching him drink it? Does Timmy get in trouble even though he didn't do anything wrong and the 40 wasn't his?

**daedalus**

nkelsch wrote:
The 'correct' thing is to be honest with your parents, and tell them who can alert other parents to go get their drunk children. She didn't do anything right. If my parents had found out I left the house late at night as a teen to drive a car to go pick up drunk teens, it would have been my ass.

And that's interesting. My parents know that I went places to pick up friends who couldn't be safe. Some of them, their parents knew and didn't care. That's one of the reasons why this story pisses me off so much.

I also stayed out until 2-3 AM quite often, either usually over at a friend's helping him work on his car which was perpetually falling apart, or even just driving around. I had good grades, regularly attended school, and was all around a good kid. I never got into trouble, I was just a night owl.

**chaos0xomega**

timetowaste85 wrote:
Welp, one more example of why I'm occasionally ashamed to be American. Good job, school district. Punish a kid for saving a friend's life.

I'm not, Massachussetts does not equal United States of America.

insaniak wrote:
I'm confused... what did all of this have to do with the school in the first place?

What he said.

To play or be involved in many of the extracurricular activities you usually agree to abide by a certain set of rules from the school. With sports they can be pretty demanding--but generally get ignored if it's an activity that makes the school system or school itself a good stream of revenue.

I can understand the outrage, but at the same time underage drinking is one of those things where communities either take it incredibly seriously or don't care. I know that where I live it is taken fairly seriously because of the number of fatalities that you see resulting from high schoolers getting drunk and deciding to get out as soon as possible when they hear the cops are coming.

In regards to this story it kind of seems like the whole reason Cox is being punished is that she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. She showed up to pick someone up as the cops came to make arrests. She's likely being used as an 'example' because it can be viewed as her getting punished(although sitting out 5 games and losing the captaincy of the volleyball team does not really strike me as a "punishment") for trying to help cover up something she knew was illegal--whether you agree with the enforcement of those laws or not.

Contrary to popular belief the legal drinking age in the US isn't 21, thats only the age to purchase alcohol. The actual age to consume/possess varies from state to state. Massachussets law does not prohibit consumption or internal possession, only general possession of alcohol but there are parent/guardian and spousal exemptions, meaning that all it would take to get all those kids out of any amount of legal (or in this case school) trouble would be for the parents to all/unanimously (otherwise someone can get hit for furnishing to a minor) declare that they gave an alcohol exemption to their children, thus making the consumption by minors at the party legal, and technically exonerating the girl in question for being "complicit"/"covering up" a "crime" by doing the right thing. http://alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/APIS_State_Profile.html?state=MA

If she is in a private school though (I don't believe she is) technically speaking the school would still be able to dictate a punishment, etc. as you're generally "contracted" and have to abide by a stricter set of rules which extend a bit into your personal life.

I suppose that makes sense, in the most Kafka-esque sort of way possible

Pretty sure kafkaesque isn't really applicable here... then again its generally misused to begin with: http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/29/nyregion/the-essence-of-kafkaesque.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

If it happened outside of school hours, that's an issue for her parents and/or the police to handle. Nothing whatsoever to do with the school.

Schools have no reason to be punishing kids for things that happen while not in the school's care. It's nothing to do with them.

Agreed

Meh. She enabled underage drinking and got caught. School decided to levy a fairly mild punishment that whiny middle class family didn't like. Sucks to be you, nerd. It isn't like the only two possibilities were 1) This chick picks her friend up or 2) The friend drives home drunk. They made their choices and got boned by circumstance. News at 11. Meanwhile some kids starved to death somewhere.

See the first part of my post. "Underage" drinking isn't illegal.

But i have to say the drinking laws are seriously skewed in the US. And i say that as someone who doesnt drink...

See the first part of my post. They aren't skewed, they are misunderstood.

So I did a little digging. Miss Cox attends North Andover High School. NAHS's athletic handbook has a few things about alcohol and drugs in their code of conduct for athletic participation. I've bolded the important part, and underlined the 'nanny state' part. I realize that yes, the school is under no obligation to provide sports for their students and you do agree to follow these rules, but this is a zero tolerance policy that doesn't need to be as heavy handed as it is. If the school took a few seconds to hear out the story, they might not seem like colossal dicks. Yes Erin Cox was in violation of the Athletic Code of Conduct by going and picking up her friend at the party at the wrong time, but the school doesn't have any reason to control what the students do in their own time. If they students were caught and taken in for underage (which Miss Cox was not) then yeah, suspend them for a few games, take away their ability to play, but don't punish a girl because she was willing to help a friend get home safe.

Well, technically she wasn't in the presence of unlawful consumption, and unlawful possession is questionable, meaning that she wasn't technically in violation of the code of conduct... see above for details.

**Da Boss**

It's silly to have such a rule in the first place, but I can understand why if the rule is there the school will enforce it on everyone equally.

My dad was a policeman and he used to drive around giving people a lift home around closing time instead of waiting til they tried to drive and then arresting/breathalysing them. He figured he was keeping people safer doing that than letting them get into the car- he let it be known when he'd be coming back with the car, etc. His beat was a rural area and people were quite spread out, so it was possible to do that.

Nowadays, he'd likely get crap from up high about that because it would impact their "arrest stats" so they wouldn't be "solving crimes".

**-Shrike-**

Da Boss wrote:
It's silly to have such a rule in the first place, but I can understand why if the rule is there the school will enforce it on everyone equally.

My dad was a policeman and he used to drive around giving people a lift home around closing time instead of waiting til they tried to drive and then arresting/breathalysing them. He figured he was keeping people safer doing that than letting them get into the car- he let it be known when he'd be coming back with the car, etc. His beat was a rural area and people were quite spread out, so it was possible to do that.

Nowadays, he'd likely get crap from up high about that because it would impact their "arrest stats" so they wouldn't be "solving crimes".

That's a pretty awesome thing for your dad to do.

**easysauce**

how the heck does the school have any authority to issue punishments based on events that happend

1. outside of school hours
2. outside of school property

....

or are schools the newest branch of the TSA and get a free pass at ignoring peoples rights?

**djones520**

easysauce wrote:
how the heck does the school have any authority to issue punishments based on events that happend

1. outside of school hours
2. outside of school property

....

or are schools the newest branch of the TSA and get a free pass at ignoring peoples rights?

This goes back to the school that wanted to expel kids for playing with airsoft guns in their yard.

**Da Boss**

Wow, that is completely unreal! Airsoft guns in the back yard?

Maybe the administrators in these schools should focus a bit more on improving educational attainment, seeing as the US is quite a bit behind the competition at High School level!

**cormadepanda**

Time to write an email to that school. Zero tolerance is fine, but zero understanding it not fine. She is being punished for being near property that contained underage drinking. Man what is the minimal distance required? 100ft? 200ft? a Mile? Its just sad to see punishments like this...

**Andrew1975**

Grey Templar wrote:
We really need to get a handle on this Zero Tolerance crap. Fire everybody who came up with the idea and/or get rid of their pensions.

Sounds like Zero Tolerance for Zero Tolerance!

**Frazzled**

I think the question we need to ask ourselves is, why were these kids not busily working in coal mines on their off time?

**AlmightyWalrus**

Andrew1975 wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
We really need to get a handle on this Zero Tolerance crap. Fire everybody who came up with the idea and/or get rid of their pensions.

Sounds like Zero Tolerance for Zero Tolerance!

Only a Sith deals in absolutes!

**Easy E**

To play devil's advocate:

She signed a contract with the school to allow her to play Volleryball. When that contract was violated, her ability to play volleyball for the school was revoked.

RAW

**gossipmeng**

So basically.... I can get drunk, stand next to a highschool student, and he/she will get in trouble for being near me. GJ skool GJ.

**Grey Templar**

Da Boss wrote:
Wow, that is completely unreal! Airsoft guns in the back yard?

Maybe the administrators in these schools should focus a bit more on improving educational attainment, seeing as the US is quite a bit behind the competition at High School level!

Technically it was the front yard. But it so happened to be within 70 yards or so of a bus stop...

**Frazzled**

Easy E wrote:
To play devil's advocate:

She signed a contract with the school to allow her to play Volleryball. When that contract was violated, her ability to play volleyball for the school was revoked.

RAW

Except of course the contract was not violated.

**djones520**

Frazzled wrote:
Easy E wrote:
To play devil's advocate:

She signed a contract with the school to allow her to play Volleryball. When that contract was violated, her ability to play volleyball for the school was revoked.

RAW

Except of course the contract was not violated.

They are stating that she willingly was in the presence of minors partaking in alcohaul. I'd call BS to this. She wasn't there of her own will. She didn't want to be there. She was there to help stop a dangerous situation, nothing more.

This is zero tolerance at it's worst.

**Frazzled**

Alcohol is not illegal. Purchasing it as a minor is.

**djones520**

Frazzled wrote:
Alcohol is not illegal. Purchasing it as a minor is.

Being in the unlawful presence of use of alcohaul. It's what they are nailing her for. It is illegal for minors to consume/purchase/possess booze.

**daedalus**

djones520 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Alcohol is not illegal. Purchasing it as a minor is.

Being in the unlawful presence of use of alcohaul. It's what they are nailing her for. It is illegal for minors to consume/purchase/possess booze.

(or be in the presence of someone who is.)

**Frazzled**

djones520 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Alcohol is not illegal. Purchasing it as a minor is.

Being in the unlawful presence of use of alcohaul. It's what they are nailing her for. It is illegal for minors to consume/purchase/possess booze.

Show me the law on that. Its illegal to purchase. No one said they purchased it.
A little semanticy I know but the whole thing is that.

Clearly certain admins need their cars keyed. Justice old school style.

Also she must suck at volleyball, or their team does. In Texas, good athletes are pretty invulnerable.