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Though, in fairness, it could be assumed that "Imperial Lords" includes female governors as well (for example, Queen Elizabeth currently holds the title of "Lord of Mann")

But generally I would assume that there are nobles of both genders who would enjoy being serviced by their own gender. Such cases are known even from our own history, and in a culture and time where it would otherwise be frowned upon or even against the law, even "just" amongst local nobles rather than a country's leaders. Privileges!

I seem to remember reading somewhere that gay relationships are against regulations in the Navy - though that might be only in the case of a cross-rank relationship, and the possibility of nepotism, rather than anti-homosexual laws.
I know that in Redemption Corps, Kreig is repulsed by head commissar Udeskee's hand-holding with a young medical officer, but that's probably just a case of personal opinion.

In all likelihood, it's not something that's worried about unless:
A) - there's an over-zealous inquisitor/priest/commissar around with nothing better to do, or
B) - it somehow disrupts or damages imperial interests.

*shiver* Redemption Corps .. that novel where a Stormtrooper is shooting his way through an entire convent of Battle Sisters. ;p

 Dark Apostle 666 wrote:
I seem to remember reading somewhere that gay relationships are against regulations in the Navy - though that might be only in the case of a cross-rank relationship, and the possibility of nepotism, rather than anti-homosexual laws.

I'd imagine that romantic relations of any kind within the ranks would be disallowed in most of the Imperium's armed forces.

 Lynata wrote:
*shiver* Redemption Corps .. that novel where a Stormtrooper is shooting his way through an entire convent of Battle Sisters. ;p

Who are knowingly serving a radical Inquisitor, no less.

Even when I read that as a kid, and had no particular interest in the Sisters, I still thought that their portrayal in that book felt weird.

Burn me as a Heretic, but I quite enjoyed Redemption Corps - then again, with BL books I find it's best to let the critical mind turn off, and just take it as a bit of fun - besides, the story would have been a bit more anticlimactic if the "heroes" got mown down by bolter fire halfway through.

Back OT, I think Troike is right - although relationships within a squad seem to slide (although this is based on the Cain Novels, read above and take salt accordingly) once you have a rank gap more than Trooper/Sgt, I would think that'd cause more trouble than it's worth.

Actually, I should clarify, I enjoyed Redemption Corps too, when I read it. The action was fun, the rivalry between the protagonist and the Commissar in training was interesting, and genestealer infected Orks were good antagonists. Its portrayal of Sisters is probably the one thing I dislike about it, but apart from that, enjoyable book.

As for the Cain novels, I got the impression that the examples of squad relations we see there are allowed to carry on, in part, be due to Cain's unusually liberal attitude. Normally it's the Commissar's job to root that stuff out, yet he's quite clearly not inclined to do so. I mean, some of them are implied to have made babies, yet Cain maintains his rapport with the troops and is still said not have executed anybody. If a proper Commissar was assigned to that regiment, things like that would most likely be violently rooted out and punished.

But, as you mentioned, a healthy dose of salt is probably nedded for some aspects of the Cain novels regardless.

 Dark Apostle 666 wrote:
I seem to remember reading somewhere that gay relationships are against regulations in the Navy - though that might be only in the case of a cross-rank relationship, and the possibility of nepotism, rather than anti-homosexual laws.

First Cain novel. It referred to a relationship between a captain and one of the naval provosts killed in the dining room riot at the start of the book. I find it more likely that the regulations would be against the relationship of the member of a military police and the captain who commands them than the fact of their genders, and IIRC that's what Cain hinted at too.

 Troike wrote:
Actually, I should clarify, I enjoyed Redemption Corps too, when I read it. The action was fun, the rivalry between the protagonist and the Commissar in training was interesting, and genestealer infected Orks were good antagonists. Its portrayal of Sisters is probably the one thing I dislike about it, but apart from that, enjoyable book.

As for the Cain novels, I got the impression that the examples of squad relations we see there are allowed to carry on, in part, be due to Cain's unusually liberal attitude. Normally it's the Commissar's job to root that stuff out, yet he's quite clearly not inclined to do so. I mean, some of them are implied to have made babies, yet Cain maintains his rapport with the troops and is still said not have executed anybody. If a proper Commissar was assigned to that regiment, things like that would most likely be violently rooted out and punished.

But, as you mentioned, a healthy dose of salt is probably nedded for some aspects of the Cain novels regardless.

What Cain basically says is throw lots of healty and bored young people together in a confined space and stuff happens - how you deal with it and the inevitable results varies - also there is nothing in the IIU Primer that prohibits sex pretty much everything else but not that.

Cain gets away with it because:
1) He is good at his job - motivating his men (and women) and itn turn the regiment is extremely effective and regarded as Elite - see 2,3 and 4
2) He gets results - destroying the enemy, foiling plots, saving planets from enemies of the Imperium etc
3) He has the patronage of an actual Inquisitor who find him and his Gaurd units useful
4) A number of high ranking officers like him because of the above and because he offers decent conversation and games of Regicide

There a quite a few Commissars who act in those novels as expected with varying results...................

Normally the "Traditional" kind of commissar in a Cain book ends up being humiliated or killed off.

True although that happens to Commissars in the Codex too if they are posted to Catachan Likely to be the same with most elite / veteran Guard Regiments if they can't prove themselves

You know, the talk about sex within a regiment reminds me of that bit in the 3E Guard Codex about the soldiers' children being kept in the regiment's baggage train until they are old enough to become soldiers themselves.
It doesn't necessarily mean that this must refer to sexual relationships solely between the troops, but still ...

Mr Morden wrote:Cain gets away with it because:
[...]

5) He gets away with everything, just like he became a Commissar even though he clearly isn't brainwashed enough for it

scnr, but I still think those books are a poor "resource", given the amount of artistic license they take. By themselves, they're just as valid as any other book for matters of personal interpretation, but it should be kept in mind just how much they clash with studio material ... :/

 Lynata wrote:
You know, the talk about sex within a regiment reminds me of that bit in the 3E Guard Codex about the soldiers' children being kept in the regiment's baggage train until they are old enough to become soldiers themselves.
It doesn't necessarily mean that this must refer to sexual relationships solely between the troops, but still ...

Mr Morden wrote:Cain gets away with it because:
[...]

5) He gets away with everything, just like he became a Commissar even though he clearly isn't brainwashed enough for it

scnr, but I still think those books are a poor "resource", given the amount of artistic license they take. By themselves, they're just as valid as any other book for matters of personal interpretation, but it should be kept in mind just how much they clash with studio material ... :/

I think we get that you don't like them lots of us do

They clash less than many books and more than some - same as FFG material and anything else remotely associated with 40k. We don;t know how and why Cain got through the Schola Process without truning into the standard Commissar - same as Gaunt is not a standard Commissar and others also vary to a larger degree. We also don't know how much indoctrination took and what age he entered the schola....

We do know he is a true believer in the Emperor as a Divine being, has an adhorance of Xenos, often leaps into combat at the head of his men - inspiring them to grat things i the name of the Imperium - even if he says that he is a coward - thats not how he acts and he may well be fooling himself..............

Mr Morden wrote:They clash less than many books and more than some - same as FFG material and anything else remotely associated with 40k. We don;t know how and why Cain got through the Schola Process without truning into the standard Commissar - same as Gaunt is not a standard Commissar and others also vary to a larger degree. We also don't know how much indoctrination took and what age he entered the schola....

We do know that the author did not portray the Schola in the way it is portrayed in the Codex fluff, so I'd assume that Mitchell's version of the SP is just a bit "less extreme" and "less brainwashy" in some regards. Given how (apparently) the novels only talk of Sororitas, Storm Trooper and Commissar classes, could it be that the author just didn't get (or chose to ignore) that the Schola also yields civilian graduates? And that those are indeed the majority of students, with only the most militant and zealous ones proceeding into a military career?
Perhaps Mr. Mitchell just assumed that the Schola produces only Sisters, STs and Commissars, and that any orphan will automatically end up in one of these three organisations. It'd explain a lot.

Or maybe Cain is just lying - the reader is reading something written by the character, after all. In another thread, I proposed that Cain could be a 40k version of the Captain of Köpenick, having stolen his Commissar's uniform and then just being swept up in the Imperial war machinery and trying his best to survive and not being found out. It'd be an interesting twist and simultaneously resolve a lot of apparent conflicts with the studio material.

But I'll stop with that now. I realise that my nagging on these books must be irritating to their fans - I just wanted to remind people that this is not a consistent setting where elements from one source can easily be applied to another.. especially when they differ in tone.

one thing worth noting about Cain is the guy is described as an EXPERT manipulator. he impresses a god damned Inqustionerer this way.
so chances are that in front of anyone he needs to, Cain can come off as being as "exceptionally pious" as he needed to be

Gaunt is actually a fairly standard Commissar, that is, as a Commissar-Cadet, the way he was trained is exemplified by his behavior. Lead by example, lead from the front, never ask your men to do something that you are not yourself willing to do. He's not a Commissar in the same vein as Harker or Sobile, but he's not expected to be, he's trained differently. This does not make him a terrible Commissar (this is actually not true... in hindsight, of course, he should have allowed them to execute that one Vervunhiver... name is escaping me for a moment... the one that goes on to murder three or four Ghosts... Gaunt's sense of fairness is a direct cause of their deaths.).

Gaunt also shoots and kills, what, eight fellow soldiers on a single planet (five or six for cannibalism, two for stealing his medical supplies and punching Anna Curth) in his remit as a Commissar, in addition to having killed his own uncle for cowardice.

Where Gaunt gets special is that, in addition to being a Commissar, he is also the CO of a regiment. These two statuses are not meant to go hand in hand, and this is what causes Gaunt most of his problems throughout the series.

 Lynata wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:They clash less than many books and more than some - same as FFG material and anything else remotely associated with 40k. We don;t know how and why Cain got through the Schola Process without truning into the standard Commissar - same as Gaunt is not a standard Commissar and others also vary to a larger degree. We also don't know how much indoctrination took and what age he entered the schola....

We do know that the author did not portray the Schola in the way it is portrayed in the Codex fluff, so I'd assume that Mitchell's version of the SP is just a bit "less extreme" and "less brainwashy" in some regards. Given how (apparently) the novels only talk of Sororitas, Storm Trooper and Commissar classes, could it be that the author just didn't get (or chose to ignore) that the Schola also yields civilian graduates? And that those are indeed the majority of students, with only the most militant and zealous ones proceeding into a military career?
Perhaps Mr. Mitchell just assumed that the Schola produces only Sisters, STs and Commissars, and that any orphan will automatically end up in one of these three organisations. It'd explain a lot.

Or maybe Cain is just lying - the reader is reading something written by the character, after all. In another thread, I proposed that Cain could be a 40k version of the Captain of Köpenick, having stolen his Commissar's uniform and then just being swept up in the Imperial war machinery and trying his best to survive and not being found out. It'd be an interesting twist and simultaneously resolve a lot of apparent conflicts with the studio material.

But I'll stop with that now. I realise that my nagging on these books must be irritating to their fans - I just wanted to remind people that this is not a consistent setting where elements from one source can easily be applied to another.. especially when they differ in tone.

Having read the majority of the BL publicaitions AND most importantly the novels in question I stick by my stance that there are other bL books far more "heretical" and some less..................I did provide quotes before which show that for the most part his intrepretation fits nicely..............again IMO,

The bulk of the education provided at a schola progenium is the same whatever branch of Imperial service the student enters, after this was determined in their early teens, the specialised training would begin

I think it also works nicely with some excellent fiction here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/558501.page

I feel that all published sources are equally valuable - you just need to choose what you personally consider canon and stick with it IMO anyway ..............

Mr Morden wrote:I feel that all published sources are equally valuable - you just need to choose what you personally consider canon and stick with it IMO anyway ..............

Just to clarify: I'm not disputing this. I'm just pointing out where various sources conflict with others, and that this should affect how they are perceived - meaning, for your interpretation you'll ultimately have to choose one over the other (and consider any attached consequences), not pull a Lexicanum and just pretend they fit seamlessly together.

The sexual leanings of meatbags is irrelevant, especially once you shoot all the meat out.

 Omegus wrote:
The sexual leanings of meatbags is irrelevant, especially once you shoot all the meat out.

This is why Humanity destroyed all of the Men of Iron...

 Lynata wrote:
You know, the talk about sex within a regiment reminds me of that bit in the 3E Guard Codex about the soldiers' children being kept in the regiment's baggage train until they are old enough to become soldiers themselves.
It doesn't necessarily mean that this must refer to sexual relationships solely between the troops, but still ...

There is a lot of detail on the camp followers in the Gaunt series as well.

I just took a quick look through my Imperial Infantryman's Handbook and there didn't seem to be any regulations regarding fraternization at all, of any orientation.

The Uplifting Primer is more of a comedy source than anything else, but it also doesn't contain the whole range of military ordinances and regulations. I'm sure there are whole continents dedicated to the storage of the relevant paperwork...

There are millions of planets in the Imperium. There are giant space bugs from another galaxy, crazy god driven fanatics trying to destroy everything, an entire race that gets its life force from the sacrifice of others, space communists with better technology adding worlds for the greater good, and Egyptian Terminators trying to extinguish all life waking up all over the place. I think the Imperium has more important things to concern itself with than who is sleeping with who. That said, likely it is entirely based on an individual planet's culture and religion and not something the Imperium as a whole even pays attention to.

Humans are irrational though and like to be able to vilify those that are "different". Take modern times, hunger poverty and war are rife and yet people still have time to go down the park and smash people to death for having different preferences.

 Harriticus wrote:
GW pretends sex doesn't exist. Because kissing is icky.

OP's guess is as good as mine.

I know it's pretty strange, I can understand it to an extent particularly in the bolted porn novels. However I would have thought in the heresy series they could have a slightly more grown up approach. But I'm not complaining, never was one for romance novels anyway!!

Ventris and Pasanius are the cutest space marine couple ever. I like the adorable scene at the end of nightbringer i think were they are just hanging out in their skivies and drinking wine together.

Back ot. I think the IoM has way more stuff to deal with than personal matters. as long as you get your 23.5 hours of work in that day you can do whatever you want to whomever you want.

Yes, but don't enjoy it too much, or the Inquisition will come calling. If daemons don't burst out of your dick, anyway.

I think you're overstating it.

Having a massive orgy would be excessive, and would feed Slaanesh. Two lovers having a night of mutual pleasure would not.

 Melissia wrote:
I think you're overstating it.

Having a massive orgy would be excessive, and would feed Slaanesh. Two lovers having a night of mutual pleasure would not.

Its an interesting point - in the same way does anyone merely getting angry (say by taking part in lengthy forum arguments ) feed Khorne and does gossiping feed Tzeentch?

Mn, but the thing is, Slaanesh is the prince of Excess, born from excess, and feeding off of it. Not merely pleasure.

Just like Khorne is not just the god of blood, but of violent bloodshed, especially in war. Bleeding from a papercut won't please Khorne. Cutting an orphan's head off and squeezing the blood out of its corpse would.