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Sure, you've made your mind up. Will you also be replacing the weaponry on the tanks to be modified twin lasguns/volleyguns? If not it'll get messy quickly.

It will still be confusing to many. The stat lines, armour, equipment and special rules vary wildly between the two armies.

I could make an army of catachans counts as marines that are highly trained, modify the lasguns a bit and give them sm vehicles and say that their jungle stealth skills is what is granting them a 3+ save and training accounts for the rest of the stat line. Use sentinals as centurions and valks as stormravens but my special/heavy weapons will all be wysiwyg.Also they get salamanders chapter tactics and 'they shall know no fear' is replaced with 'you weren't there man, they were coming out of the trees' (identical rules).
My few 'minor' changes are going to start to get confusing quickly.

When your opponent is doing it to it becomes a proxyfest.

This way madness lies...

Oh wow, I love reading how people try to hinder your idea just for the sake of nitpicking..

It's kind of obvious that you won't be taking that army to serious tournaments and it's only meant for fun play at your FLGS. As long as you use SM vehicles or substitute them with ones that have a similar profile so you don't look like a cheater trying to use smaller model and you make it clear to people you'll play with what is what(printed out reference sheet would be perfect for nitpicking people), the idea is good to go.

I think that noone is stupid enough to not remember that those 10 scions coming out of SM drop pods with their guns converted to not look like flesh- I mean.. flashlights are actually counts-as Tacticals. As for the dreadnoughts.. ever considered using the UNA Fire Toad or other mechs from AT-43? They're more or less the same size and with some minor conversions to reflect their loadouts and putting them on proper bases you could have nice, low-profile mechs that look like they could crawl out of a Valkyrie-like transport or be dropped from the sky just like the Elysian sentinels.

Overall neither I nor anyone who comes to my FLGS would ever have anything against your fluffy idea for your army outside of big tournaments as we actually encourage people to be as creative as possible especially that Scions are roughly the same size as tacticals miniatures, mean that you won't be getting any advantage over that change.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
There is no way in hell ODST's would be BS3 if Veterans are BS4. Conscripts are BS3. Those guys who are outright stated to have mere weeks of training before being sent out to the frontlines on occasion.

Conscripts are BS2, actually.

Certainly sounds interesting; glad your group's cool with it, and I don't think keeping track of the basic small arm should prove all that difficult to...anyone, really.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
Sure, you've made your mind up. Will you also be replacing the weaponry on the tanks to be modified twin lasguns/volleyguns? If not it'll get messy quickly.

It will still be confusing to many. The stat lines, armour, equipment and special rules vary wildly between the two armies.

I could make an army of catachans counts as marines that are highly trained, modify the lasguns a bit and give them sm vehicles and say that their jungle stealth skills is what is granting them a 3+ save and training accounts for the rest of the stat line. Use sentinals as centurions and valks as stormravens but my special/heavy weapons will all be wysiwyg.Also they get salamanders chapter tactics and 'they shall know no fear' is replaced with 'you weren't there man, they were coming out of the trees' (identical rules).
My few 'minor' changes are going to start to get confusing quickly.

When your opponent is doing it to it becomes a proxyfest.

This way madness lies...

See this is where I get confused why people post stuff like this that has no merit or does not contribute to the debate in any way shape or form. As I have stated multiple times I am only using the Scions to represent Space Marines. Everything else will be the actual Space Marine vehicle because I am running it out of Codex Space Marines, how is that hard to understand. These gross exaggerations of what I'm trying to do are no more than flame posts, please read what I am intending to do without making up a bunch of bull that I am clearly not doing.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:

Will you also be replacing the weaponry on the tanks to be modified twin lasguns/volleyguns? If not it'll get messy quickly.
It will still be confusing to many. The stat lines, armour, equipment and special rules vary wildly between the two armies.
When your opponent is doing it too it becomes a proxyfest.
This way madness lies...

Still valid.

You can't convert things! I'm calling Nottingham right now to tell on you.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:

Will you also be replacing the weaponry on the tanks to be modified twin lasguns/volleyguns? If not it'll get messy quickly.
It will still be confusing to many. The stat lines, armour, equipment and special rules vary wildly between the two armies.
When your opponent is doing it too it becomes a proxyfest.
This way madness lies...

Still valid.

Not Valid if its not what im doing.

 AkhilleusK42 wrote:

The Guard just doesnt work like the UNSC marines, though. Regiments arent nearly as close together as UNSC units so using other, active regiments is problematic at best. The OP is free to write whatever he wants, though. Cant be worse than what Black Library puts out.

More to the point, though, I would call having ODSTs being favourably compared to the Scions... generous at best. Scions are trained from a young age to stalwartly face against alien and inter-dimensional horrors that would make what the ODSTs face seem like a walk in the park. The ODSTs are veteran Guardsmen at best with a lower leadership skill. Maybe with a worse save and most likely with a worse gun. That's not to say that ODSTs are incompetent. They are excellent soldiers for what the UNSC needs of them. It's just that transplanting them into the 40k universe makes them cry like little bitches because they aren't trained or equipped for what they will face. This is true for many sci-fi armies from the Systems Alliance marines to the Stormtrooper corps.

Now, I can understand all deep striking army of veteran guardsmen using ODST themes. That's fine. But a direct transplant is problematic.

Oh, I agree about transplanting ideas UNSC forces directly and of course that wouldn't fly, haha. The human tech from 2,500 is not going to compare to human tech from period of time 37,500 years in the future, yet alone v.s. ancient superpowers like Eldar or Necrons. OP seems to be using a marine dex (for access to drop pods) but with ODST inspiration for models and paintjobs; I myself will be using Scions allied with IG/AM because I feel like they justly compliment each fluffily (plus I believe scion deepstrike better represents single occupant nature of HEVs). You're right that the UNSC would be closer than their IG counterparts, especially when you only own a few worlds compared to the millions in 40k.

Actually, you could make a good argument that they are on par or greater than imperial guard.

Halo's lore about the forerunner is that they're a very ancient race who were appointed caretakers of the galaxy. Their technology is incredibly advanced; more so than the imperium. The covenant were born on a world with forerunner artefacts that founded the basis of their religion but the covenant were not as advanced as humans were but reverse engineered and jury rigged forerunner technology to construct their weapons and spaceships. A lot of their discoveries actually came from utilising Huragoks (which existed with the forerunners or were created by them since they're a tier 1 race (humans being tier 3 and covenant tier 2) http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Technological_Achievement_Tiers). The problem with this is; the covenant are not very good at it due to their lack of proper understanding of the technology themselves. It is akin to a tech priest trying to build a land raider. Sure, he might be able to do it but his understanding of how it all works is not as good as the original creators which is why STCs are so prized by the tech priests.

Anyway, in halo, the covenant and humans meet. In one scenario cortana, the chief and johnson manage to hijack a covenant ship and because they're further along in science than the covenant; they're actually able to use covenant technology more effectively than them. Master Chief's shield technology is actually a much more capable version of the covenant version. The UNSC infinity is a human ship with a jury rigged forerunner engine and power plant strapped to it. Most advanced technological discoveries come from forerunner tech.

So you could argue, that humans in the UNSC are on par if not better than guardsmen and Spartans, being accelerated through their evolutionary cycle, augmented and wearing armor reverse engineered from forerunner tech are on par if not better than space marines. Master chief would definitely be better than most marines or characters in the 40k universe given that he has actually been augmented by the librarian herself.

A Scion can be dropped out of orbit and survive and do battle.

Without a drop pod or grav chute.

A Scion could probably crush an ODST's skull with his bare hands with about the same ease you'd crush a grape.

sonicaucie wrote:

 AkhilleusK42 wrote:

The Guard just doesnt work like the UNSC marines, though. Regiments arent nearly as close together as UNSC units so using other, active regiments is problematic at best. The OP is free to write whatever he wants, though. Cant be worse than what Black Library puts out.

More to the point, though, I would call having ODSTs being favourably compared to the Scions... generous at best. Scions are trained from a young age to stalwartly face against alien and inter-dimensional horrors that would make what the ODSTs face seem like a walk in the park. The ODSTs are veteran Guardsmen at best with a lower leadership skill. Maybe with a worse save and most likely with a worse gun. That's not to say that ODSTs are incompetent. They are excellent soldiers for what the UNSC needs of them. It's just that transplanting them into the 40k universe makes them cry like little bitches because they aren't trained or equipped for what they will face. This is true for many sci-fi armies from the Systems Alliance marines to the Stormtrooper corps.

Now, I can understand all deep striking army of veteran guardsmen using ODST themes. That's fine. But a direct transplant is problematic.

Oh, I agree about transplanting ideas UNSC forces directly and of course that wouldn't fly, haha. The human tech from 2,500 is not going to compare to human tech from period of time 37,500 years in the future, yet alone v.s. ancient superpowers like Eldar or Necrons. OP seems to be using a marine dex (for access to drop pods) but with ODST inspiration for models and paintjobs; I myself will be using Scions allied with IG/AM because I feel like they justly compliment each fluffily (plus I believe scion deepstrike better represents single occupant nature of HEVs). You're right that the UNSC would be closer than their IG counterparts, especially when you only own a few worlds compared to the millions in 40k.

Actually, you could make a good argument that they are on par or greater than imperial guard.

Halo's lore about the forerunner is that they're a very ancient race who were appointed caretakers of the galaxy. Their technology is incredibly advanced; more so than the imperium. The covenant were born on a world with forerunner artefacts that founded the basis of their religion but the covenant were not as advanced as humans were but reverse engineered and jury rigged forerunner technology to construct their weapons and spaceships. A lot of their discoveries actually came from utilising Huragoks (which existed with the forerunners or were created by them since they're a tier 1 race (humans being tier 3 and covenant tier 2) http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Technological_Achievement_Tiers). The problem with this is; the covenant are not very good at it due to their lack of proper understanding of the technology themselves. It is akin to a tech priest trying to build a land raider. Sure, he might be able to do it but his understanding of how it all works is not as good as the original creators which is why STCs are so prized by the tech priests.

Anyway, in halo, the covenant and humans meet. In one scenario cortana, the chief and johnson manage to hijack a covenant ship and because they're further along in science than the covenant; they're actually able to use covenant technology more effectively than them. Master Chief's shield technology is actually a much more capable version of the covenant version. The UNSC infinity is a human ship with a jury rigged forerunner engine and power plant strapped to it. Most advanced technological discoveries come from forerunner tech.

So you could argue, that humans in the UNSC are on par if not better than guardsmen and Spartans, being accelerated through their evolutionary cycle, augmented and wearing armor reverse engineered from forerunner tech are on par if not better than space marines. Master chief would definitely be better than most marines or characters in the 40k universe given that he has actually been augmented by the librarian herself.

You just summed up how the humans are better than the aliens in Halo. You still have yet to explain how they are superior to the Imperium despite using stub weapons and using armor that is vulnerable to stubbers. Flak armor is superior to ODST armor in terms of protection. MJOLNIR is on par with at least flak but no better than than carapace. If you still think spartans are better consider this: A BR55HB can kill master chief with a single burst to the head. A Space Marine's rib cage is resistant to those rounds. Not his armor. His bones.

 TheCustomLime wrote:


You just summed up how the humans are better than the aliens in Halo. You still have yet to explain how they are superior to the Imperium despite using stub weapons and using armor that is vulnerable to stubbers. Flak armor is superior to ODST armor in terms of protection. MJOLNIR is on par with at least flak but no better than than carapace. If you still think spartans are better consider this: A BR55HB can kill master chief with a single burst to the head. A Space Marine's rib cage is resistant to those rounds. Not his armor. His bones.

Mjolnir is better the Flak, sorry that is a grossly inaccurate statement. Mjolnir armor not only has shielding but encases the Spartan entirely were most Flak armor is jus on certain parts of a Guardsmen. Also the ODSTS are completely encased in armor when compared to regular guardsmen and look more like Scions then anything else, hence why I chose the Scion models. Even though this debate is not really about the conversion, saying Mjolnir Armor is = to Flak armor just really doesn't make sense.

 gmaleron wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:


You just summed up how the humans are better than the aliens in Halo. You still have yet to explain how they are superior to the Imperium despite using stub weapons and using armor that is vulnerable to stubbers. Flak armor is superior to ODST armor in terms of protection. MJOLNIR is on par with at least flak but no better than than carapace. If you still think spartans are better consider this: A BR55HB can kill master chief with a single burst to the head. A Space Marine's rib cage is resistant to those rounds. Not his armor. His bones.

Mjolnir is better the Flak, sorry that is a grossly inaccurate statement. Mjolnir armor not only has shielding but encases the Spartan entirely were most Flak armor is jus on certain parts of a Guardsmen. Also the ODSTS are completely encased in armor when compared to regular guardsmen and look more like Scions then anything else, hence why I chose the Scion models. Even though this debate is not really about the conversion, saying Mjolnir Armor is = to Flak armor just really doesn't make sense.

Can an ODST be dropped from Orbit with no protection other than his carapace armor and not only live, but be in fighting condition? No? Then he is inferior to a Scion.

 Kain wrote:

Can an ODST be dropped from Orbit with no protection other than his carapace armor and not only live, but be in fighting condition? No? Then he is inferior to a Scion.

Scions are not dropped from Orbit, they Grav Chute in from Valkyries who are maintaining a high altitude. So no, ODST are JUST like Scions.

 gmaleron wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Can an ODST be dropped from Orbit with no protection other than his carapace armor and not only live, but be in fighting condition? No? Then he is inferior to a Scion.

Scions are not dropped from Orbit, they Grav Chute in from Valkyries who are maintaining a high altitude. So no, ODST are JUST like Scions.

A Scion survived re-entry.

 Kain wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Can an ODST be dropped from Orbit with no protection other than his carapace armor and not only live, but be in fighting condition? No? Then he is inferior to a Scion.

Scions are not dropped from Orbit, they Grav Chute in from Valkyries who are maintaining a high altitude. So no, ODST are JUST like Scions.

A Scion survived re-entry.

Like to see where it says that, and if that is case it is highly unbelievable as even Space Marines need Drop Pods to survive going through the atmosphere.

 gmaleron wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:


You just summed up how the humans are better than the aliens in Halo. You still have yet to explain how they are superior to the Imperium despite using stub weapons and using armor that is vulnerable to stubbers. Flak armor is superior to ODST armor in terms of protection. MJOLNIR is on par with at least flak but no better than than carapace. If you still think spartans are better consider this: A BR55HB can kill master chief with a single burst to the head. A Space Marine's rib cage is resistant to those rounds. Not his armor. His bones.

Mjolnir is better the Flak, sorry that is a grossly inaccurate statement. Mjolnir armor not only has shielding but encases the Spartan entirely were most Flak armor is jus on certain parts of a Guardsmen. Also the ODSTS are completely encased in armor when compared to regular guardsmen and look more like Scions then anything else, hence why I chose the Scion models. Even though this debate is not really about the conversion, saying Mjolnir Armor is = to Flak armor just really doesn't make sense.

MJOLNIR has a lot more bells and whistles, certainly, but once you drop the shields a stub round can go through it. Same for ODST armor. Flak armor can resist stub rounds much more reliably. It isnt even that hard to drop the shields either.

Where are you getting the evidence that Flak armor can stand up to a Stub round better then an ODST's armor? Just curious, because from the Black Library books and from looking at the definition its primary purpose is" to deflect shrapnel or Flak". From Warhammer 40k wiki: "The armour provides little protection from a direct weapons strike, though the protection it provides is sufficient to deflect damage from shrapnel, adjacent, though not direct explosions, and riccochets." Seeing this and how ODST's can take a hit from a Sniper and not die makes me think otherwise.

 gmaleron wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Can an ODST be dropped from Orbit with no protection other than his carapace armor and not only live, but be in fighting condition? No? Then he is inferior to a Scion.

Scions are not dropped from Orbit, they Grav Chute in from Valkyries who are maintaining a high altitude. So no, ODST are JUST like Scions.

A Scion survived re-entry.

Like to see where it says that, and if that is case it is highly unbelievable as even Space Marines need Drop Pods to survive going through the atmosphere.

You'd do well to ask Bob.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Less need to eat/drink/sleep is taken care of by the armor of the Marines, going by the new ST fluff, their mask have the same function, and they can go a long time without sleeping, they can also operate in the void and survive atmospherical entry (what? no yes really and without a drop at that)

A certain planet also breeds ST that are just about immune to most diseases and are more often than not sent out to deal with Nurgle stuff.

In any case, the main difference between simply falling out of the sky and dropping from a pod is that the Pod is more accurate, you aren't shaken up on landing, and you don't alert everyone to your presence by impacting the ground.

If the Scions can do it, the Space Marines and Sisters of Battle can probably do it too.

In any case, most weaponry in Halo is inferior to what I wielded in the Russian military, by a lot.

A space marine squad with their strength of a hundred times the human maximum and bolters capable of penetrating 8 inches of regular steel would have been terrifying for me and my fellows in the Tank Platoon and accompanying mechanized infantry to face. We're talking clean penetration through multiple IFVs and through anything short of the thickest points on MBT armor.

Master Chief would have probably have been gunned downed by the BMPs before we could get the canister rounds loaded.

Let me copy paste my response to Chief vs Brother Genericus.

 Kain wrote:
Why use brother genericus and not Poppa Smurf if we're going for the most iconic Ultramarine and Spartan?

In any case, the weapons used in Halo would be considered obsolete and ergonomically god awful by today's standards, with the assault rifle firing ridiculously tiny bullets (the difference in weight between a fully loaded assault rifle and an empty one is literally just a few grams) that would need a full clip to kill a normal unarmored human, the Rocket Launcher having much less of a boom than an RPG-7, the energy sword being one of the worst sword designs I have ever seen outside of anime, and Chief is seriously threatened by .303 caliber machine guns, machine guns with a range of less than 30 yards. Which means that they have quite literally next to nothing as far as muzzle velocity goes, ergo meaning Chief's armor could be taken apart with ease by Somali Pirates with Ak-47s.

In addition, as bad as 40k's grasp on tactic's is, Halo's is even worse; with the Covenant having vehicle charges thwarted by literal 18th century style infantry charges, rank systems being determined by kills rather than leadership ability, the covenant employing soldiers who immediately forget everything and charge the guy who downed their shielding, not one example of anyone in the entire setting having any idea of how combined arms warfare works, and employing basic weapons that can be easily dodged even if perfectly aimed by simply running a bit to the side because their projectiles are so damned slow.

The Marine crushes Chief and moves on, complaining about having to be met with an undergunned stormtrooper rather than an actual challenge.

Again highly doubt our modern weapons today would be "superior" to our future militaries, especially 500+ years into the future. I am also and currently am serving in the military and with how technology is improving so rapidly I cant see how current, modern weapons would maintain their superiority over a period of 500 years. And that evidence is from someone else quoting it, where does it actually say that in the book or in any form of GW supplement that says that? Not saying he isn't telling the truth, however things can get misinterpreted. Even then, if Space Marines need Drop Pods to survive re-entry then a regular human would most definitely need it.

 gmaleron wrote:
Again highly doubt our modern weapons today would be "superior" to our future militaries, especially 500+ years into the future. I am also and currently am serving in the military and with how technology is improving so rapidly I cant see how current, modern weapons would maintain their superiority over a period of 500 years.

Halo is designed by idiotic mouth breathing Art Majors who have precisely zero idea how science works.

Allow me to crush all your halo fanboyism with a link.

http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/challenge-modernize-the-usnc-halo.225767/

The Taliban would crush the UNSC.

Also halo armour, blimey a bolter round minus shields would blw it to bloddy chunks, in storm of iron it blows slave torso,s apart. Bolters are over powered to point of insanity vs basic halo battle rifle.

And halo spartans are not on the same level of augmented bodies as a marine by a small mile, marines are upgraded to point there considered not quite human.

A diversion but sdimpley put, a marine would not break a sweat to kill one.

 gmaleron wrote:
Where are you getting the evidence that Flak armor can stand up to a Stub round better then an ODST's armor? Just curious, because from the Black Library books and from looking at the definition its primary purpose is" to deflect shrapnel or Flak". From Warhammer 40k wiki: "The armour provides little protection from a direct weapons strike, though the protection it provides is sufficient to deflect damage from shrapnel, adjacent, though not direct explosions, and riccochets." Seeing this and how ODST's can take a hit from a Sniper and not die makes me think otherwise.

Alright, I guess I was wrong on that point but ODST and Spartan armor are not as good as carapace armor. Maybe MJOLNIR with the shields up.

 Kain wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Again highly doubt our modern weapons today would be "superior" to our future militaries, especially 500+ years into the future. I am also and currently am serving in the military and with how technology is improving so rapidly I cant see how current, modern weapons would maintain their superiority over a period of 500 years.

Halo is designed by idiotic mouth breathing Art Majors who have precisely zero idea how science works.

Allow me to crush all your halo fanboyism with a link.

http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/challenge-modernize-the-usnc-halo.225767/

The Taliban would crush the UNSC.

Lol im not a Halo fanboy by any means so calm down before you hurt yourself. I am saying it from a RATIONAL and SCIENTIFIC standpoint. I was not talking about how Halo Weapons were better then Modern Weapons, only your comment on how our modern weapons today would be better then future weapons.

Back to the original topic, I am only creating the look of this army because I love the ODST fluff and thought it would fit well with a Scion Regiment (or other elite regiment) that had the means to replicate a form of "Drop Pod" and armor that would best allow me Rule Wise to play an army where I could mimic the fluff as much as possible in a 40k setting.

 gmaleron wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Again highly doubt our modern weapons today would be "superior" to our future militaries, especially 500+ years into the future. I am also and currently am serving in the military and with how technology is improving so rapidly I cant see how current, modern weapons would maintain their superiority over a period of 500 years.

Halo is designed by idiotic mouth breathing Art Majors who have precisely zero idea how science works.

Allow me to crush all your halo fanboyism with a link.

http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/challenge-modernize-the-usnc-halo.225767/

The Taliban would crush the UNSC.

Lol im not a Halo fanboy by any means so calm down before you hurt yourself. I am saying it from a RATIONAL and SCIENTIFIC standpoint. I was not talking about how Halo Weapons were better then Modern Weapons, only your comment on how our modern weapons today would be better then future weapons.

Except no one on the Halo design team knows anything about real science, so they drew up stats and designs that would make the UNSC far worse equipped than a modern army.

The Soviet army circa 1985 would have steam rolled both sides at reach for minimal losses without orbital bombardment to interfere.

In the far future our main battle tanks will be vulnerable to .30 cal machine guns, our assault rifles cant hit reliably further than 100 meters and our rocket launchers will be no better than a RPG-7.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Where are you getting the evidence that Flak armor can stand up to a Stub round better then an ODST's armor? Just curious, because from the Black Library books and from looking at the definition its primary purpose is" to deflect shrapnel or Flak". From Warhammer 40k wiki: "The armour provides little protection from a direct weapons strike, though the protection it provides is sufficient to deflect damage from shrapnel, adjacent, though not direct explosions, and riccochets." Seeing this and how ODST's can take a hit from a Sniper and not die makes me think otherwise.

Alright, I guess I was wrong on that point but ODST and Spartan armor are not as good as carapace armor. Maybe MJOLNIR with the shields up.

You're actually right in that stubb guns are generally poor weapons against Flak armor and outright useless against Flak and Power armor.

Autoguns are far better and more powerful, but Flak armor can still protect against them fairly well.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
In the far future our main battle tanks will be vulnerable to .30 cal machine guns, our assault rifles cant hit reliably further than 100 meters and our rocket launchers will be no better than a RPG-7.

This is from a Rules standpoint however that needs to be taken into account, if you read the fluff from the Black Library a Stubber could never take down a MBT. The rules are made to make the game as balanced as possible while the fluff really shows what they are supposed to be capable of.

For posterity, where is it stated that stub weapons cant really go through flak?

 gmaleron wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
In the far future our main battle tanks will be vulnerable to .30 cal machine guns, our assault rifles cant hit reliably further than 100 meters and our rocket launchers will be no better than a RPG-7.

This is from a Rules standpoint however that needs to be taken into account, if you read the fluff from the Black Library a Stubber could never take down a MBT. The rules are made to make the game as balanced as possible while the fluff really shows what they are supposed to be capable of.

He's referring to Halo.

Where an "HMG" with less than a hundred feet of range and .303 caliber rounds can tear apart a Scorpion tank, the ridiculous tri-barelled Rocket Launcher is vastly inferior to the RPG-7, and the only time you ever see an assault rifle with decent range is a prototype Johnson got to use once and was promptly never seen again.

It's a sad, pitiful display that the Wehrmacht would have probably eaten alive, especially when the UNSC fights like it's got it's pants on it's head (forming infantry squares against vehicle charges) and only wins because the Covenant is even dumber.

 gmaleron wrote:
Where are you getting the evidence that Flak armor can stand up to a Stub round better then an ODST's armor? Just curious, because from the Black Library books and from looking at the definition its primary purpose is" to deflect shrapnel or Flak". From Warhammer 40k wiki: "The armour provides little protection from a direct weapons strike, though the protection it provides is sufficient to deflect damage from shrapnel, adjacent, though not direct explosions, and riccochets." Seeing this and how ODST's can take a hit from a Sniper and not die makes me think otherwise.

Doesn't specifically say Stub but where I bolded the text makes it pretty clear it was not designed to take direct hits from anything.