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 Fafnir wrote:
Implying that GW hasn't done that already?

Not implying it. Stating it.

Aside from the occassional misstep GW continues to handle the fluff of 40K rather well. I do not, for a moment, believe that the ultraviolent nihilism of 40K's setting would survive were the IP to fall into other hands. GW has too much invested in 40K to step too far out of their comfort zone, but in the hands of a multinational like Hasbro would become just another product - one line among many - and anyone who believes that they would stay true to the spirit of the game is kidding themselves. When Hasbro acquired the XCom IP there was talk of turning it into a children's cartoon series, and I imagine 40K would suffer the same fate.

GW is absolute utter trash right now, so basically, I'd like seeing its licenses being bought by litereally anyone at this moment.

I'd actually say Bandai of Japan would be a better bet. They're an absolute business powerhouse with a metric fucktonne of money, they know what their customers want and are prepared to own up to their mistakes (he reason we get "renewal" versions of iffy figures) and most importantly they're superb model manufacturers.

Also, just try telling me you wouldn't like to see a Soul of Chogokin Dreadnought or an S.H. Monsterarts Carnifex.

Anyone who thinks that Hasbro would be good for GW is seriously deluded.

I'm not a GW fan. They've destroyed much of what I love about 40k and marked what remains far out of my budget. However Hasbro is a toy company with zero experience with successful tabletop wargames. Hasbro's moderate experience with a non-model, prepackaged game like MTG means exactly nothing when thinking of how they'd do with 40k.

Hasbro will only be good for players who:
-Would rather play video games (they'd certainly use the IP for this)
-Would rather play prepainted collectible games than tabletop model wargames.
-Would rather play Board Games than Tabletop model games.

Seriously. If if GW goes under it needs to be acquired by a group that values Tabletop wargaming or perhaps a high quality model company (the Bandai option is actually a pretty good suggestion), not a toy company who's main hobby games are sold in blind packaging at the Target checkout.

GW has already sanitised the Warhammer ranges to appeal to US tastes, GW run by yanks would be terribly bland. I think sales would drop off and they would write Warhammer off after a few years along with whatever barstardised prepaint/card game they would inevitably try to turn it into.

Pass.

Hasbro taking over GW?

Might as well just put a bullet in the back of GW's head.

They haven't made a decent G.I.Joe in years. The games they took over were basically MB love drippings, and sell on nostalgia only. WOTC has already shown their care with this craptasticly hilarious parody of D and D that they continue to wear the emperors new cloths over. They went so far as to "Reissue" the old stuff just to continue to keep OS gamers to shore up the losses.


And... DO you really want to see collectable 3 3/4 inch 40K figures, crossover Disney, and so much diffusion of the product to make it mainstream?

Walmart? Toys R us? K Mart?


The HHHOBBY at its best, I guess.

Seriously? if they want to make money, they need to fire off about half of the overhead corporation gak lappers, and put the money into innovation, game design, and good old fashion hard work and sweat of creativity. The stores- If they want to keep the stores, make them profitable. If they want to use On line, they should hire an online presence and do it themselves right the first time. Shelling out the "IP" is selling out the brand. DIY, or don't do it at all.
I'm as Yank as they get and I 100% agree that its on the whole a Brit institution, go over to Hasbro, and your going to see it sanitized to the point of stupid. Remember, your talking GW as a whole. Hasbro will kill off the whole thing, restructure them into part timers and the Workshop will cease. That means the whole. On one hand, you'll see more on the interwebs and less C and D letters out to the fans, on the other, you'll not see the likes of Space Hulk, Necromunda, or Mordhiem fit into the "Corporate strategy" that your thinking here.


No to Hasbro, Yes to GW pulling its head out of its fourth point of contact.

Games Workshop will not change. They consider themselves "too big to fail" and unless the entire upper management, starting with the rotten fish's stinking head Kirby, leaves, nothing good will ever come out of it.

Let's just assume that someone with common sense will take lead of the company: it's a terrible spot to be in. You would have to restructure an entire company, you would have to fire a lot of people and you would have to hire a lot of them in return for playtesting etc.

Not gonna happen.

 Grot 6 wrote:


Seriously? if they want to make money, they need to fire off about half of the overhead corporation gak lappers, and put the money into innovation, game design, and good old fashion hard work and sweat of creativity. The stores- If they want to keep the stores, make them profitable.

I think they already did what you advocated for "game designers"; some months ago someone posted up the number of in-house game designers and amount spent on game design vs. the past and it's much higher now than ever, witness the influx of all the new content for 40k in a relatively short period of time. The problem is that quantity of output with these new designers is not matched by quality; they've gone to a flood model of product release and the quality sucks to be honest.

What a larger company could bring to the table would be some sanity in the release process and a shake-up in the upper management that could result in more creativity in releases vs. the copy paste that we have now with a splash of new content, a rehashed pic from 20 years ago and a shiny new $50 price-tag for each codex.

The problem with GW is that they have the workforce but the corporate culture is such, for whatever reason, that nothing innovative happens. The 40k storyline doesn't advance and neither does the corporate culture either. IMO this is what you get when the CEO is Imperator for Life and the major share holders don't care enough to oust him.

Daston wrote:
I don't want another generic scifi game with american action heroes running around shouting 'get some get some'.

Have you read the Damnos warzone book? Calgar and Sicarius basically did just that.

The thing about a Hasbro takeover of GW is that, not only does Hasbro have the money to do that, but they'll also have the money to invest into the game. GW's releases lately seem all about making a quick buck to pay the current month's rent and to hopefully have enough left over to fund the next release to repeat the cycle. The days of GW doing a complete plastic remake of an army like Necrons and Dark Eldar are over. Hasbro, on the other hand, could do that (SoB players rejoice, maybe?).

Voted yes so that Hasbro can add ponies to 40k in an attempt to get more girls playing.

 ashcroft wrote:

Aside from the occassional misstep GW continues to handle the fluff of 40K rather well.

No, it doesn't. GW doesn't seem to understand what makes its own background interesting hence the over saturation of GRIM DARK, cartoonish characterisations and outright stupid that seems to be the hallmarks of GW's writing staff these days. If you want to read 40k fluff done right read the FFG RPG source books.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The days of GW doing a complete plastic remake of an army like Necrons and Dark Eldar are over. Hasbro, on the other hand, could do that (SoB players rejoice, maybe?).

A faction comprised of religious fanatics with a martydom rule and soaked in pseudo-catholic imagery would give Hasbro's PR division a collective aneurysm. Sisters would last about as long in Hasbro 40K as Slannesh.

 ashcroft wrote:

Aside from the occassional misstep GW continues to handle the fluff of 40K rather well.

I don't even...

Retconning and taking a dump on the fluff of an entire faction, breaking any trace of possible immersion and logic with the new psyker fluff and them suddenly summoning demons left and right, one faction made the official punching bag for other armies' fluff...just a few examples. Granted, a lot of them are related to Matt Ward. Man, I should have become a write for GW. I could do the worst possible job and constantly deliver crap without any effort and I'd still be employed forever. Awesome.

I'd actually rather vote for "I want people to stop buying GW products."

Not, as you may at first assume, to bankrupt GW, but because I believe that they are still probably best positioned to become what many want them to be under their own power.

The problem is, they only listen to one thing, and while there is an element of the customer base that continues to buy hideous "Limited Edition" terrain, books that carry a massive premium, and then special versions that offer nothing extra of any substance at an even greater premium, alongside people who day things like "urgh, this new kit is hideous, I'm only getting two, three tops" the customer base is sending the wrong message.

I'm open minded as to whether "Hasbro" (in quotes because I'm using that as shorthand for a larger company with money to invest) would be a good or bad thing, probably a little of both, but I don't think it has to happen for GW to turn around, although it may be the one that takes effect soonest, unless we all take responsibility for not rewarding poor products or bad practices with cash.

Honestly if GW gets onto a situation where they are really in danger of having to sell-out they could likely just sell their IP to Hollywood studios. Just release all their IP control to Hollywood - yes that means we'd have to suffer 10001 Micheal Bay style Warhammer Action films with Teen Romance and such but at least chances are GW could make a large income off the sale of the IP and then later in new fans joining the hobby.

Really the only reason I can think of that GW isn't into the movie world is because they want to retain control over their IP - whilst most Hollywood studios just want your product name, blurb and fanbase (they don't really care much about authenticity of story).

My only concern if Hasbro took over is that they make the background of the game too kid friendly, I love the grim dark I have already and I would like more not less

Hasbro doesnt want a company they have to fix.. wizards ran itself and still does with great success

GW has tried to interest Hollywood studios in their IP.

The studios didn't bite.

But then, take a look at what studios did with the D&D IP when making movies....

I think that Hasbro could do a better job than GW under Kirby.

I do not think that Hasbro will want GW.

While I think that Hasbro buying GW would be a good thing... I also think that Hasbro buying WotC was a bad thing.

I just think that GW is worse, not that Hasbro is good.

I miss the old WotC - and am very glad that the OGL was written with malice aforethought; they knew that some future version of WotC would try to crap in the pool, and wrote the OGL specifically to prevent that.

And, sure enough, along game 4e and the GSL... that... isn't a Zagnut in the water....

The Auld Grump

 scarletsquig wrote:
Voted yes so that Hasbro can add ponies to 40k in an attempt to get more girls playing.

I cannot tell you how hard I noped to that

First off I'm assuming that when we say selling off GW we really mean 40K. Given that WFB and LotR are seemingly dead due to lack of attention to the brands.

My problem is that I am not too fussed about the way that GW is treating 40K at the moment anyway. Seeing as I am purely a collector of their models, the only thing that frustrates me is the absurd models that they release and that is purely down to the designers, and not who owns the business. It would be nice to see the IP go in different directions such as high quality video games and movies (oh what I would give to have Creative Assembly make a 40K total war game...)

My problem with GW being bought out would be that 40K could get sidelined much as what happened to Fantasy or LotR. If I knew that the game would still receive just as much attention as it is now I would probably support the idea.

Honestly though, I think all that is needed for GW to get back on my good side is find a CEO who cares about the franchise and has some common business sense. A few tweaks here and there and problem solved.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
But then, take a look at what studios did with the D&D IP when making movies....

The second one was pretty good. Low budget, sure, but enjoyable.

 Commander Cain wrote:
Honestly though, I think all that is needed for GW to get back on my good side is find a CEO who cares about the franchise and has some common business sense. A few tweaks here and there and problem solved.

I'd agree. If the top managers (Tom Kirby and co) were booted out then I reckon things would get better. There's plenty of talented people in GW, and I think writing off the entire company as evil is unfair- we should be pinning the blame on the very uppermost echelons of GW, not the entire company. Just fire the management + Tom Kirby and get some people who actually care to run the company. Alan and Michael Perry, Andy Chambers, even poor old Jervis Johnson (senile as he is). I know this is wish-making at best, but I think getting the GW "old guard" back in charge would help massively.

 AlexHolker wrote:
Yes. GW as it exists today will never get a dollar from me ever again. There is nowhere to go but up.

I don't buy from GW on principle. If another company acquired GW and cleaned out upper management that might change. Although honestly, what GW is producing these days does not blow my skirt up. Having gone elsewhere for my Wargaming needs for the past 4 years, I have missed nothing about GW.


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 Fafnir wrote:

 ashcroft wrote:
which would turn 40K into a parody of itself.

Implying that GW hasn't done that already?

100%. GW has already been whitewashing 40K. It hasn't had its charm for years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Palindrome wrote:

 ashcroft wrote:

Aside from the occassional misstep GW continues to handle the fluff of 40K rather well.

No, it doesn't. GW doesn't seem to understand what makes its own background interesting hence the over saturation of GRIM DARK, cartoonish characterisations and outright stupid that seems to be the hallmarks of GW's writing staff these days. If you want to read 40k fluff done right read the FFG RPG source books.

Dark minus the grim. GW has lost the grim that gives the 40K universe context and meaning. GW's use of skulls in 40K lately is a good example. GW has forgotten why skulls are important in 40K imagery.

These days GW adds moar skulls because skulls are totes dark and 40K is about killing stuff and looking cool while doing it like you don't give a crap. So GW puts skulls on everything.

NO NO NO NO NO NO.

Before I played Warhammer 40k, I played a little game called Heroscape. The models came pre-painted and it was a a bit collector-ish. The game itself was fun! It was balanced, it had some interesting background, there was in NO WAY anything near "Triptide auto-win" nonsense. It was a great game. And what happened? The IP started falling after a lack of good releases. So they pushed out a final 10th wave which was absolute bullsnot and pushed of to WOTC. WOTC saw this as a way to bring in some new D&D players and said, "Why put effort into this? We can just recycle of old D&D models and not even have to give them background info stuff!" Thus followed the 4th (and second worst after the marvel set) Master Set. After that came "Wave 11" which in all fairness, the rules were still excellent. THEN came wave 12. They decided, "Why keep making all these big 30mm bases for this stuff if we can just re-use our old 25mm bases?" To the bases on the single space models were changed from their staple form into absolute GAK. Then they took even further with wave 13, "Hmmmm... Utgar is to much 'lawful evil' we need something to get all the chaotic evil monsters!" Thus came Valkrill (the 7th Archkyrie general The armies were organized into 1 of 6 generals. Utgar was evil, Ullar was an Elf at heart thus why he has so many, Einar was Discipline and Imperialism, Jandar was Justice and goo and lived in the snowy mountains, Vydar was dark and brooding and had lots of robots in his army, and Aquila was foresty wild stuff.) Valkrill had NO Backstory, and NO theme other than "Ooo sooper dooper evil" That marked the end of the game. the final wave 13 contained 4 squads of Valkrill and that's all he ever got. They took what was once and AWESOME game and turned into mush. People still love and play it though. My brothers went to a tourny just last year and it was cancelled nearly 4 years ago.

So NONONO. Hadbro must NOT get their hands on this IP, or else the moment they start failing it they'll push off to a child company who'll ruin it entirely

 ashcroft wrote:
A faction comprised of religious fanatics with a martydom rule and soaked in pseudo-catholic imagery would give Hasbro's PR division a collective aneurysm.

That's Optimus Prime's entire shtick. Hasbro the marketed thin Catholic imagery analogues way before GW.

People seem to object on the grounds that Hasbro would run GW as a toy company. GW are, in their ham-fisted, blundering way, already doing this. What's wrong with a company stepping in and doing what they were already doing, but better?

ntw3001 wrote:
People seem to object on the grounds that Hasbro would run GW as a toy company. GW are, in their ham-fisted, blundering way, already doing this. What's wrong with a company stepping in and doing what they were already doing, but better?

I don't understand this either.

GW themselves have said that they are in the business of selling toys to kids. Literally.

How could Hasbro do any worse? By turning it into a PG film? By making action figures and plushies? By removing everything grim or dark?

Hasbro are a competent company and, unlike GW understand market research. They wouldn't buy something with the history and established fanbase that 40k has and then decide to scrap all that and make Space Marine action figures with real karate chop action. They'll go looking for what the current fans want from the game and try to give us that because that is retail 101...
You find what your customers want and then sell it to them. GW doesn't understand this which is why we get things like the pig mobile, the high elf flying-boat-chariot, super limited edition hardbacks that ate $84 for 60 pages and all that crap.
Hasbro will see people wanting more effort put into game design, or old models to be redone, or specialist games to be brought back. We might not get all that but we'll have a hell of a lot better odds of getting it from Hasbro than GW.

 Commander Cain wrote:
First off I'm assuming that when we say selling off GW we really mean 40K. Given that WFB and LotR are seemingly dead due to lack of attention to the brands.

My problem is that I am not too fussed about the way that GW is treating 40K at the moment anyway. Seeing as I am purely a collector of their models, the only thing that frustrates me is the absurd models that they release and that is purely down to the designers, and not who owns the business. It would be nice to see the IP go in different directions such as high quality video games and movies (oh what I would give to have Creative Assembly make a 40K total war game...)

My problem with GW being bought out would be that 40K could get sidelined much as what happened to Fantasy or LotR. If I knew that the game would still receive just as much attention as it is now I would probably support the idea.

Honestly though, I think all that is needed for GW to get back on my good side is find a CEO who cares about the franchise and has some common business sense. A few tweaks here and there and problem solved.

*Shrug* If you include the dead game Mordheim with fantasy... then I have to say that fantasy is alive and kicking, locally - but only because of that 'dead' game....

It is a bad sign when one of the discontinued, and no longer officially supported, games is getting more play than one of the core games....

The Auld Grump

 scarletsquig wrote:
Voted yes so that Hasbro can add ponies to 40k in an attempt to get more girls playing.

LOLZ and Exalted!!!!

Then we can finally have PonyK, Warhammer:Orks in DisGiZ.
And the, Warhammer, The Gathering