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 Qcbob wrote:
It give us guide line for our own Local Tournament. If a guy does'nt get into PP for his immersive universe... and decide he like little pony and paint little pony everywhere on his miniature... well I might not be his opponent. After all, you free to do what ever you want with your money... but at the end Warmachine/Hordes to me is not a convertible game as it is for GW. I think most people who keep converting their miniature learn it from a GW tendancy to get his unique army. In PP, there is a on going story line. You don't play "Your" army, you play a warcaster named battlegroup with a really specific fluff. If at the root, you don't stick to it... go play with your expansive sci-fi robots and leave the steampunk universe. PP is not the alternative to expansive GW robots. PP have is own game system, his own rules and background storyline which is not set in an abstract possible universe. It's an on going storyline that evolve from today to tommorow and this storyline propose a guideline of what is plausible or not.

Sorry, I heartily disagree. It is YOUR army and it is YOUR game to play how you want to. You can use as much or as little as the fluff you want for YOUR army.

I bought it, paid for it, converted it and painted it. I can do whatever I darn well please to it and no one can tell me otherwise. If someone else doesn't like it then they can choose not to play me, but it makes my army no less legitimate. And frankly, I think it would make that person look kind of like a douche if they refused to play someone because they had a MLP paint scheme.

I understand PP wanting to protect their rights and not trample on other people's rights. And as far as tournies go the organizer can run them however he wants and I can choose not to play in them if I disagree.

Would this policy mean you couldn't use parts for licensed miniatures [I.e DS's Game of Throne miniature range]?

If the parts were identifiable as such, yes.

 Grey Templar wrote:
If the parts were identifiable as such, yes.

That is just completely disappointing.

Do realize that PP isn't filming very many events. Only some of the major tournaments like LnL, Warmachine Weekend, etc...

Other tournaments won't have this restriction.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Do realize that PP isn't filming very many events. Only some of the major tournaments like LnL, Warmachine Weekend, etc...

Other tournaments won't have this restriction.

And that's the distinction that nearly everyone seems to be missing. Privateer only makes it to so many events a year. This isn't some guideline to govern local events, those have always been up to the individual running the event to decide what is kosher and not as far as conversions go, for example I had an eCaine converted out of an Ashlynn model (on eCaine's base and using his guns) that my PG would allow for smaller local events, but didn't want me playing in things like the WMW qualifier. It was a perfectly understandable request.

This also isn't an excuse for an opponent to be a dick. "I don't like that Darkwing Duck painted, but unconverted Gorman, please DQ." That was one of the examples someone on the PP forums tried to float, and I'm pretty sure any PG that actually does their job would be penalizing/shaming the complainer and not the person with the painted model.

 sing your life wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
If the parts were identifiable as such, yes.

That is just completely disappointing.

I think you are misunderstanding this. To put it simply, PP has NO issue with using parts from other ranges as long as those parts don't cause the conversion to blatantly look like another IP. Using Game of Thrones parts is fine (assuming you are meeting the 50% original model rule) as long as the model doesn't look like Game of Thrones IP (while I'm unaware of the models you are referring to, given that Game of Thrones occupies a fairly generic fantasy aesthetic, you are probably safe). Examples from 40k and other sci-fi settings stand out a bit more since they have more unique and defining aesthetics (Stormtrooper Helmets, pretty much everything Space Marine, etc.) but for fantasy, which has more aesthetic homogenization, you are likely safe. Basically, as long as you can look at a conversion and your first thought isn't "That is X from Y", you are set.

No, I just don't like restrictions to the models I use period

Are you really planning on going to one of the 2 or 3 events that PP runs themselves? If not, this doesn't affect you one bit.

 sing your life wrote:
No, I just don't like restrictions to the models I use period

Sing, you are welcome to use your models how you like. If PP is putting on an event that they are paying for they are welcome to set any rules or restrictions they like. You are both correct, and they are not mutually exclusive.

As to conversions I personally don't care what my opponent takes or uses in a friendly game. If we are playing in a Steamroller and are on death clock your darn right I want easily identifiable models on the other side of the table. It would be an unfair advantage if you have to explain how your my little pony action figure is your caster and your GI Joe is standing in for pEyriss.

 Qcbob wrote:


I am totally agree with the PP policy, even if I would not be part of thoses tournement. It give us guide line for our own Local Tournament. If a guy does'nt get into PP for his immersive universe... and decide he like little pony and paint little pony everywhere on his miniature... well I might not be his opponent. After all, you free to do what ever you want with your money... but at the end Warmachine/Hordes to me is not a convertible game as it is for GW. I think most people who keep converting their miniature learn it from a GW tendancy to get his unique army. In PP, there is a on going story line. You don't play "Your" army, you play a warcaster named battlegroup with a really specific fluff. If at the root, you don't stick to it... go play with your expansive sci-fi robots and leave the steampunk universe. PP is not the alternative to expansive GW robots. PP have is own game system, his own rules and background storyline which is not set in an abstract possible universe. It's an on going storyline that evolve from today to tommorow and this storyline propose a guideline of what is plausible or not.

Is My Bone colored Khador not "Fluffy" because it isnt red? This is the stupidest thing I even read in my life.

 Todosi wrote:
Are you really planning on going to one of the 2 or 3 events that PP runs themselves? If not, this doesn't affect you one bit.

Warmachine Weekend? Yes, I plan to go there. Adepticon is also one of the more likely cons I'd go to.

 darefsky wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
No, I just don't like restrictions to the models I use period

Sing, you are welcome to use your models how you like. If PP is putting on an event that they are paying for they are welcome to set any rules or restrictions they like. You are both correct, and they are not mutually exclusive.

As to conversions I personally don't care what my opponent takes or uses in a friendly game. If we are playing in a Steamroller and are on death clock your darn right I want easily identifiable models on the other side of the table. It would be an unfair advantage if you have to explain how your my little pony action figure is your caster and your GI Joe is standing in for pEyriss.

I dont think that we are talking about the same thing. I was planning on using DE heads in place of the god aweful nyss ones. And the examples given by PP themselves are just stupid. No Xenomorph Skulls on Sheilds? How about this PP, dont post a video of the models?

Are there really that many people doing conversions to make PP models look like copyrighted stuff like Darth Vader?

All likelyhood yes.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
All likelyhood yes.

That is the thing, I have never seen it. Nor have I seen it in bat reps or anything that I remember. So a part of me is honestly wondering if this was actually a problem or one guy showed up with something and the higher ups at PP decided "yea better stop that now before George Lucas sues us."

It's not nessisarily whole armies but also just some individual models sprinkled in. A Skorne army with some models themed for a football teams colors, and then the logo done up on the grass flock of his Mammoth. A friend has his Dougal McNail's head replaced with Mayor McCheese's. His Gorman is the Darkwing Duck which I've heard several of.

The Darkwing Duck Gorman is actually ok, because it has nothing on it besides the color to refer it to Darkwing Duck.

If it had a duck bill and had an artfully freehanded DD on his cloak then it wouldn't be ok. But just as a paint scheme its fine. Just no logos.

I'm really surprised this is a "thing" of discussion. A lot of companies are taking safeguards to prevent getting hammered.

when i think of this kind of maneuvering, i think of apple vs samsung. while i think the lawsuit is crap, the reality isn't what was implied or intended, its what is perceived, and the argument comes from "would a reasonable man think this came from that". whatever this or that is.

so i look to PP, and quite frankly, i think they are doing this out of necessity. it wasn't but what, a year and a half ago that GW was threatening i don't know....EVERYONE that used a GW logo to stop using them or they'll sue, especially over you tube videos and channels.

i don't think it means much to joe and fred and nancy local players. and i don't think it means much to everyone else who plays at adeptecon, WMW, and temple con...as well as all the WMW qualifiers they can get to. i think it means that they are taking reasonable legal precautions to ensure they don't end up in that mess.

its not as big of a deal as people are making it out to be, and probably rarely affects people (although i feel for the guy doing the Necron/Cryx army) while setting the expectation at a larger activities and tournaments.

 AduroT wrote:

 Todosi wrote:
Are you really planning on going to one of the 2 or 3 events that PP runs themselves? If not, this doesn't affect you one bit.

Warmachine Weekend? Yes, I plan to go there. Adepticon is also one of the more likely cons I'd go to.

OK, Warmachine Weekend may be a problem, the Adepticon tournament is run by Adepticon, not PP, so you should be fine there.

 Todosi wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

 Todosi wrote:
Are you really planning on going to one of the 2 or 3 events that PP runs themselves? If not, this doesn't affect you one bit.

Warmachine Weekend? Yes, I plan to go there. Adepticon is also one of the more likely cons I'd go to.

OK, Warmachine Weekend may be a problem, the Adepticon tournament is run by Adepticon, not PP, so you should be fine there.

Except this new policy came about because the PP staffer who was running the event at Adepticon, same one who posted this new policy in fact, banned models with Any GW parts from play. After the event when it was pointed out that that was not actually a rule they had posted he said they'd look into it and get back to them. This new policy is the result. PP staff run a lot of the con events as I hear it, and their head TO now has this record of making up additional rules that weren't posted in advance and DQing models that no one was complaining about.

 Blood Hawk wrote:
Are there really that many people doing conversions to make PP models look like copyrighted stuff like Darth Vader?

These aren't mine, they belong to a friend. He also has an Errant unit with SM shoulder pads (though legally not GW IP!) and bolters in place of their crossbows. This is the kind of thing PP wants to avoid showing pics/video of at their official events. He's still more than welcome to play them at any non-PP event the person running it signs off on.

Yeah, I can totally understand why they wouldn't want those. I'm not really a big fan of them either (but that is my personal opinion). Frankly though, It doesn't look like they meet the old conversion rules, anyways, so I could see them being DQ'd.

Yeah, maybe the avatar, but I doubt the rest are 50% their original model. There is way more to the Vessel than that, and I don't even know who that is meant to be in the speeder. Kreoss3 I guess? I dunno

looks like Harbinger.

It's supposed to be Harbinger. I suggested a Saint Celestine but apparently they're too hard to get.

Ahh right. That is a terrifying idea, Harbinger in a land speeder. But yeah, I'd say that is falling short of 50% as well, so the new policy isn't really making much of a difference there.

I'll grant you most of these are obvious examples (though the Avatar may be salvageable). The Errants I don't have a pic of though are must closer. The shoulders are clearly from space marines though the CHS lawsuit kind of exempts them but they're also clearly carrying bolters and chainswords in place of their usual weaponry (as my friend says, they're still firing bolts- har har). He plans to paint them as Angry Marines but given he's painted like 4 models to completion in the last decade I'm not worried about that.

Either way it's a very limited policy on a very limited number of tournaments. If you are one of those affected I can see the frustration and empathise but PP has to protect PP.

It looks like a fun army and cool conversions at least.

 Surtur wrote:
It looks like a fun army and cool conversions at least.

Definitely. It must have cost a heap too, unless he snagged all the bits from ebay or something.