Privateer Press' new conversion policy.

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**AduroT**

Not seen much of anything about this posted on Dakka yet.

PPS_Will Hungerford wrote:
Official Conversion Policy Addendum
The following rules (italicized below) are immediately in effect at all official Privateer Press events.

"Models may not be converted in such a way that any part of the model is representative of another party's intellectual property. Models may not use copyrighted logos, symbols, iconic elements, or iconography that are not the property of Privateer Press"

This addendum does not change the existing rules found in the modeling, painting, and conversion sections of our organized play documents. All normal rules regarding legal conversions remain unchanged.

--------------------------------------------------------

As our community grows larger every day we continue to see fantastic new model conversions and projects from hobbyists all across the globe. At the same time, we continue to increase our coverage of events and the creativity of WARMACHINE and HORDES players through our social media, live-streams, and No Quarter magazine. Out of respect for other creator's intellectual property and to protect the integrity of our own media, we cannot feature model conversions that are representative of another party's intellectual property or use iconic elements, iconography or likenesses that may be copyrighted or trademarked by another company.

Non-Privateer press parts are allowed when converting a model,however if you plan to participate in an organized play event or a Privateer Press painting competition or challenge, please take care to respect the intellectual property of other creators and companies and understand that your converted miniature(s) may be disallowed from an event or competition if they do not meet the standards of this policy.

Iconic elements and iconography include, but are not limited to:

Logos, symbols
Weapons, helmets, armor
Costumes and costume color schemes
Character likenesses and creature designs

For events that Privateer covers with our own print and video media, we will take a very stern approach to disallowing anything that might infringe on the copyrights or trademarks of other organizations, so if in doubt, please err on the side of caution and at the very least, have a backup model planned. While we think your Darth Vader conversion of Asphyxious is super cool, if you're planning on winning the Iron Gauntlet, make sure you've got a tournament-legal version of the Iron Lich to lead your army.

For instance, while we're all fans of Star Wars, replacing your Stormblade heads with Imperial Storm Trooper heads would be strictly forbidden. Similarly, converting your Archangel to look like Smaug from The Hobbit, or decorating the shields of your Catphracts with ALIEN Xenomorph skulls, while highly entertaining, will prevent them from being used in our official OP environment. So, while you're free to make up any sort of heraldry you'd like to put on the shields of your Ironfang Pikemen, for instance, painting the NFL's Seattle Seahawks logo on your Myrmidons will prevent them from ever being displayed in our photography or videos (even though we're all fans). Similarly, models sporting copyrighted iconography like Batman's bat symbol or Superman's S will be dismissed from official events.

**ahzek**

Makes sense

**Hereticdave**

Apologies if I seem ignorant but how does this apply to conversion parts? I have recently taken up Warmachine after a long hiatus and my first model is pHaley with the hood removed and a head from Statuesque miniatures used in place? Am I understanding correctly that if I ever take part in an official event (unlikely, but it's nice to have the option given the new gaming store opened up locally) I'll need the unmodified version (or a version with a pp head swap) to enter?

**treslibras**

I guess we'll only see with time how they are enforcing these rules.

I am totally fine with prohibiting logos and other iconic, clearly recognizable (as belonging to someone else's intellectual property) bits for official tournaments. They might not only face hassle with some ip holders but they are also obscuring their own look and representation in PR.

Blocking more generic conversions (like using reaper/warhammer fantasy bits, or the above-mentioned statuesque minis' head) would be a different alley, altogether, however.

**Sean_OBrien**

No, for the most part it means you can not paint a Superman logo on your figures...

Weapon, head and other swaps or conversions are allowed. They just want to avoid treading on other people's IP.

**Scipio Africanus**

I think it's basically "don't use a boltgun", Dave.

Don't use a bit that can be clearly identified as another company's part.

I don't know if that includes bits specifically designed to go with WM models.

**Hereticdave**

Sounds fair enough then.

**Krellnus**

Its probably more of a precautionary measure, even if they never enforce it, if another company see their IP represented on the model, they will have a much weaker case against PP themselves because they can now say "Look, we made it pretty clear to our customers its just not on, but they did it anyway and we cannot be held responsible for that".

**AduroT**

I know as a precursor to the policy change a model at Adepticon was DQed by Hungerford for having Tyranid legs on it. Reason given at the time was no GW parts allowed.

**Maddermax**

Not much of a problem, except if you go to official PP run tournaments in the US - outside of them, it doesn't apply. Basically, their tourney, their rules, same with any other company.

I get the feeling it's mostly because they are broadcasting tournament videos, and could wind up on the wrong side of IP laws. I'm sure there's a marketing component as well, promoting their own products rather than competitors, but that's their prerogative at their own tournament - you can't take Mantic models to a GW tournament at Nottingham either.

As long as they're not too strict about it, as there is a LOT of cross-over geekdom in the hobby in general that wouldn't necessarily cause problems. I think in the PP thread someone asked about an army of Trollbloods painted like the Hulk (green skin and genes), and was told that was fine and generic enough, as long as they weren't also modded to look like the hulk exactly.

Bolt guns are mentioned as being too iconic, but at the same time a generic looking mini-gun (like the assault cannon) would probably be fine, if you modded it up properly. If they keep a light touch and aren't draconian about it, it'll be OK, so it really depends on how they enforce it.

Obviously you're upset about it AduroT because of your NeCryx army (necrons crossed with Cryx), which means you can't go to official tournaments over there (so no lock&load, ect). That does suck, as your army does look sweet, but at the same time it'll still look cool at every other event you go to, and just generally - it doesn't disappear because of PPs rules regarding its own tournaments.

**AduroT**

Yeah, I am honestly quite bitter over my Necron Cryx which I had generally been pretty careful with to keep them conversion rule legal. Posted this here though because the conversation always trends towards discussion on this being a measure to prevent them getting sued for airing a video where one of the players models has parts from another company on it and some IP law in general, wherein the Mods lock the thread because discussing Copyright Law is off topic in a thread about a policy based on Copyrights and I'm hoping one of the legal eagles who post on Dakka (Weeble?) might weigh in.

**slowthar**

Well they're not saying you can't use parts from any other companies' models, they're saying it can't be recognizable as someone else's IP. So, Space Marine helmet: out. Space marine screaming bald guy head: probably fine, because you wouldn't know it came from GW by looking at it. The plastic parts you buy are 100% your property, however the concept of a Space Marine is owned/protected by GW, so they don't want someone to look at your model in their official video and say, "oh, PP games look cool because they have space marine models," because PP would then conceivably be making a profit from GW's intellectual property.

It seems silly, but it's just them having to protect themselves from lawsuits.

**RiTides**

I would be very interested to hear weeble's take on this, too.

Their prior policy was already pretty strict by the letter of the rule, but I checked with my local group and they were cool with my conversion plans. So, I'm working towards making a converted Blindwater force

I just know I probably won't be able to use it at an event where PP has an official presence and is taking photos. It's not 100% ideal... but it just means their biggest events are more restrictive, and doesn't really affect my playing with my local group, and possibly even at local events.

**hotsauceman1**

And people wonder why I dont like PP, They seem to not like modeling at all.

**Gentleman_Jellyfish**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
And people wonder why I dont like PP, They seem to not like modeling at all.

Well sure, if you don't actually pay attention to their policies. However, their Miniatures Painting and Modeling forum is pretty robust http://privateerpressforums.com/forumdisplay.php?6-Miniatures-Painting-and-Modeling

**Grimtuff**

slowthar wrote:
Well they're not saying you can't use parts from any other companies' models, they're saying it can't be recognizable as someone else's IP. So, Space Marine helmet: out. Space marine screaming bald guy head: probably fine, because you wouldn't know it came from GW by looking at it. The plastic parts you buy are 100% your property, however the concept of a Space Marine is owned/protected by GW, so they don't want someone to look at your model in their official video and say, "oh, PP games look cool because they have space marine models," because PP would then conceivably be making a profit from GW's intellectual property.

It seems silly, but it's just them having to protect themselves from lawsuits.

This.

Far too many people are getting the wrong end of the stick with this and reacting accordingly.

**Gentleman_Jellyfish**

If it helps to keep the livestreams coming

**darefsky (Flight Medic Paints)**

AduroT, I get your upset and honestly I would be too if I had invested that much time and money into your Necron/Cryx. They are fantastic BTW.

I still don't see a reason why you would just shelve them, Granted you wont be allowed to play them at Warmachine Weekend etc but who cares. You still did an amazing job on them.

Oh and since this is clearly all Jeremy Shay's fault I say we tar and feather him.

**Spyder68**

Its no different then Games workshop.

If you use other groups parts logo's and models.. You cannot have them pictured etc.

Privateer press will sometimes live stream games in finals and tourneys... or have before i believe.

How awkward would it be.. Adepticon Masters.. PP decided to stream the final game... but... half of the cryx army is Games workshop Necron parts and the Cygnar army has Ultramarine symbols all over it.

**Emperors_Champion**

Agree it does make sense, it's a shame the world of "games and hobbies" couldn't be a bit more relaxed but business is business.

It doesnt stop us doing what we love, it just means people need to use a little common sense when doing "official" things!

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Spyder68 wrote:
How awkward would it be.. Adepticon Masters.. PP decided to stream the final game... but... half of the cryx army is Games workshop Necron parts and the Cygnar army has Ultramarine symbols all over it.

I do not think it is about it. I think it may be really about Disney suing their asses for unauthorized use of the Star Wars IP if some conversion of Darth Vador and storm troopers are involved. Better safe than sorry…

**RegalPhantom**

This is pretty understandable as far as policies go. They even pretty much spell that while it sucks, its basically to keep them from getting sued by other companies. And reading the formal statement, they are pretty much stating "as long as this model doesn't look like somebody else's IP, we're ok with it (provided it meets other conversion rules)". So using another companies parts are acceptable as long as it doesn't look too much like that company's product (for example, using SM helmets or bolters might be out, but I doubt they'd be up in arms if you used Wood Elf bows on your Nyss if it looked good).

That being said, it will depend on what their specific rulings at events tends to be.

**Jaceevoke**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Spyder68 wrote:
How awkward would it be.. Adepticon Masters.. PP decided to stream the final game... but... half of the cryx army is Games workshop Necron parts and the Cygnar army has Ultramarine symbols all over it.

I do not think it is about it. I think it may be really about Disney suing their asses for unauthorized use of the Star Wars IP if some conversion of Darth Vador and storm troopers are involved. Better safe than sorry…

I agree with this, wouldn't be the first time PP did something questionable because of a larger corporation.

**darefsky (Flight Medic Paints)**

Jaceevoke wrote:
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Spyder68 wrote:
How awkward would it be.. Adepticon Masters.. PP decided to stream the final game... but... half of the cryx army is Games workshop Necron parts and the Cygnar army has Ultramarine symbols all over it.

I do not think it is about it. I think it may be really about Disney suing their asses for unauthorized use of the Star Wars IP if some conversion of Darth Vador and storm troopers are involved. Better safe than sorry…

I agree with this, wouldn't be the first time PP did something questionable because of a larger corporation.

I don't know that it's questionable. It's pretty standard CYA stuff. As to them decreeing to a larger company it makes good business sense. Why waste capital on defending a lawsuit that could be used for product development or any of 1000 things that can help grow their business.

**Mordekiem**

Pretty standard stuff. Unfortunately it is more of a commentary of our culture/civilization than of PP.

But at least they are being transparent and putting it out there along with a reason why. At least that way people can't say they didn't know.

**Qcbob**

The best example I could give to explain the Privateer Press policy :

This Gun Carriage is totally legit to work with the new PP policy, even if we clearly see the Ork parts and the Dozer Blade. Both parts are from GW, but the overall result show reference to Privateer Press universe. The conversions serve the interest of PP, not GW. If the guy would have took the Gun Carriage and convert it to look like a Ork Looted tank it would have been illegal to play in a tournement.

I am totally agree with the PP policy, even if I would not be part of thoses tournement. It give us guide line for our own Local Tournament. If a guy does'nt get into PP for his immersive universe... and decide he like little pony and paint little pony everywhere on his miniature... well I might not be his opponent. After all, you free to do what ever you want with your money... but at the end Warmachine/Hordes to me is not a convertible game as it is for GW. I think most people who keep converting their miniature learn it from a GW tendancy to get his unique army. In PP, there is a on going story line. You don't play "Your" army, you play a warcaster named battlegroup with a really specific fluff. If at the root, you don't stick to it... go play with your expansive sci-fi robots and leave the steampunk universe. PP is not the alternative to expansive GW robots. PP have is own game system, his own rules and background storyline which is not set in an abstract possible universe. It's an on going storyline that evolve from today to tommorow and this storyline propose a guideline of what is plausible or not.

**motyak**

I...disagree with basically all of that post

**Maddermax**

motyak wrote:
I...disagree with basically all of that post

I'll disagree with his second paragraph, the first was fine.

These rules make sense for official PP events and coverage, but I definitely don't think it should be used as a guide or reference by any 3rd party TOs. They might make their own calls on certain conversions because of taste*, but be up front about it if so, that's a TOs prerogative, and don't hide behind this policy (which specifically only effects official events), as there are no issues of protecting or promoting IP for 3rd party events.

I'll also disagree that Warmachine players should have to work with the fluff when converting/painting their armies - if a player wants to base their army on anything, even something outside of the Iron Kingdoms universe, that's their right, and no one should say someone is wrong for doing so.

*there was some debate about a converted army that was accepted to a major tourney and used space marine/Menoth/ my little pony bits, and which the owner admitted was designed to be absurd. It caused some consternation amongst other players who would be attending, which I can understand even if I wouldn't care myself as long as things were clear.

**AduroT**

I'm waiting for GW to sue when PP shows an army that has Skulls, Arrows, Chevrons and/or Roman Numerals on it in one of their videos.

**Grey Templar**

Hereticdave wrote:
Apologies if I seem ignorant but how does this apply to conversion parts? I have recently taken up Warmachine after a long hiatus and my first model is pHaley with the hood removed and a head from Statuesque miniatures used in place? Am I understanding correctly that if I ever take part in an official event (unlikely, but it's nice to have the option given the new gaming store opened up locally) I'll need the unmodified version (or a version with a pp head swap) to enter?

Not at all.

What this statement is is that they cannot allow any conversions which represent other companies IP to be present when they are filming events they are at.

So LnL, where PP films/photographs, you couldn't have your Marvel themed Cygnar army there regardless of it actually following the conversion rules in the Steamroller packet(50% original model)

This is to protect PP from lawsuits.

The normal conversion policy is still in effect everywhere else. And Haley with her head swapped is 100% legit everywhere.

In short, you are allowed to use 3rd party parts as long as you follow the Steamroller conversion rules(which are allowed to be overruled by local TOs). And you can use them at official PP events where they are filming/photographing the event provided they aren't obviously another companies IP(underlined part is important)

They don't want other companies suing them for infringing on their IP. You are still free to do whatever you want. But PP can't allow that at events where they(PP officials) are filming or photographing them. which is only a few specific events.

You could have a "totally not Hulk themed" trollblood army which is green with purple pants. You couldn't have a troll converted to look exactly like the Hulk with the phrase "Hulk SMASH" painted on his base. PP used this exact example when clarifying their statement.