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 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
He grabbed him out of his seat on the bus and shoved him into the wall of the bus.

To just say he grabbed him is disingenuous. He lifted him by his hair.

To say he "lifted him by his hair" is also a stretch of the wording.

The strength it would take to lift even an 11 pound boy from a seated position by his hair would be quite a lot (average boys weighing in at 77 lbs)....not including any resistance they may give.

This is hair pulling and redirecting someone by their hair (quite unexpectedly, mind you)



I doubt it was like that.

I suspect it was a grab of hair and the boy was then up on his feet.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:
Wouldn't proper protocol call for the dad to beat up the dad of the bully?

That may be one of the problems....

The 11 year old bully is being "parented" by his aunt/guardian.

Does not appear to be a father in the picture.

Out of curiosity DM, why are you trying to downplay this so much? He pulled his hair hard enought o lift him out of his seat, that should seem to be more than harsh.

 TheMeanDM wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
He grabbed him out of his seat on the bus and shoved him into the wall of the bus.

To just say he grabbed him is disingenuous. He lifted him by his hair.

To say he "lifted him by his hair" is also a stretch of the wording.

The strength it would take to lift even an 11 pound boy by his hair would be quite a lot (average boys weighing in at 77 lbs).

This is hair pulling and redirecting someone by their hair (quite unexpectedly, mind you)

I suspect it was a grab of hair and the boy was then up on his feet.

“The father grabbed the 11-year old by the hair, pulled hard and raised the child out of his seat, then shoved him on the side of the bus where the window meets the wall,” Richmond Police Lt. Mark Gagan told CBS San Francisco.

Interpret it how you will, but just because he may not have curled the kid by his hair doesn't mean it wasn't entirely excessive

 TheMeanDM wrote:
I just clarified the incident a little, as people seem to be assigning far more inflammatory language into the act than what apparently occurred.

To clarify the father of the 9 year old victim did not:

-- beat
-- pummel
-- strike
-- batter
-- pound
-- punch
-- hit
-- kick

the 11 year old bully.

He didn't beat the gak out of him, or kick his arse, or anything like that.

He grabbed him out of his seat on the bus and shoved him into the wall of the bus.

You. Don't. Touch. Another. Kid. At. All.

Look... I'm a Dad. I can see where he's coming from, but he's still in the wrong.

I'm hearing-aid wearing, shy, geeky, and as social-awkward as a kid can be growing up...

So I've had my fair share of bullies in my life.

So I know, without a doubt in my mind, that a "Dad" beating up a "kid bully" isn't going to do jack-gak in this situation. In fact, probably will make his son's life more difficult.

If his Dad wants to make a point, confront the bully's parents. Or, make him feel this small verbally. Or both. But don't fething touch the kid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Wouldn't proper protocol call for the dad to beat up the dad of the bully?

Back in the day, yes.

"Everytime your kid hurts mine, I hurt you." - A more civilized parent, from a more civilized time.

QFT.

I'd argue there's still room to do this now.

Why are you overhyping it so much?

The way you make it sound is that he got all super human on the kid and made him defy gravity by power lifting him off the chair by only his hair.

I, for one, believe he grabbed a hand full of the kids hair and pulled...hard enough so that the kid *had* to raise from his seat or else it would be very painful to sit there and let the guy keep pulling.

If you have longer hair and someone grabs it and starts pulling....99% of the time you won't pull back, you'll go where they direct you to go by your hair because it hurts, and pulling away hurts even worse.

And then shoving the kid's face into the wall of a bus hard enough to leave cuts? I assume that was just stretching the wording, too, right?

The man, a grown man, attacked a child.

I got lifted out of my seat by an irate teacher when I was at school. I was too slow getting my homework journal out of my bag and he got annoyed. I was a bit of a dopey annoying kid in a way that could easily have been taken for insubordination if you were sensitive to that.

It was a shock, and I was shaken up by it, but he was able to lift me entirely off my feet and it wasn't excruciatingly painful or anything.

My dad went to talk to him afterwards, but I wasn't particularly bothered by it- I figured he must have been having a pretty bad day.
Slamming him into the side of the bus is more serious.

But yeah. Just wanted to confirm that a kid that age could be lifted by the hair.

 curran12 wrote:
And then shoving the kid's face into the wall of a bus hard enough to leave cuts?

That is not subjective and therefore is not open for interpretation.

He did indeed do that with enough force or in another such manner that he injured the 11 year old bully.

And autistic kids are so good at defending themselves... If no one else will, sometimes a parent has to do something about it themselves.

He did go too far, and should be punished for it, but (and this is not talked about anywhere) assuming this has happened before and he's tried to talk it out with the other kid's guardian/the school, and got laughed away, I can certainly understand flying off the handle like that.

To you who believe you could make an 11 year old feel "this small".....

What would you tell him that would have any impact on his psyche?

What could you possibly say that he probably hasn't already heard at home (especially if from an abusive/broken home) or seen/heard in the media?

I am honestly very curious to know.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I think that the dad wen a tad to far...

Going too far is throwing the kid under the bus, and then taking the kids on a trip to Tijuana to celebrate Cinqo de Mayo.


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 TheMeanDM wrote:
I just clarified the incident a little, as people seem to be assigning far more inflammatory language into the act than what apparently occurred.

To clarify the father of the 9 year old victim did not:

-- beat
-- pummel
-- strike
-- batter
-- pound
-- punch
-- hit
-- kick

the 11 year old bully.

He didn't beat the gak out of him, or kick his arse, or anything like that.

He grabbed him out of his seat on the bus and shoved him into the wall of the bus.

Exactly.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
To you who believe you could make an 11 year old feel "this small".....

What would you tell him that would have any impact on his psyche?

What could you possibly say that he probably hasn't already heard at home (especially if from an abusive/broken home) or seen/heard in the media?

I am honestly very curious to know.

At the bare minimum? Confront him by saying you know what he's doing to your son and let him know that you're watch him. Most of the time, bullies are cowards and will slink away when confronted.

I doubt the bullies' aunt really cares. If anything she should thank him for doing something about the savage little kum stain before he ends up in prison later in life.

I found the best way to deal with my bullies was to pay for someone bigger to bully my bully.

It cost me a few pokemon cards but can say my bully never bothered me afterwards.

A bully is an animal. The ONLY thing they respect is a bigger, meaner animal.

There was no permanent damage done to the bully.

Some kids just need an attitude adjustment.

Hope this guy gets off light. Hope the "victim's" family reminds him that he-in every way-had this coming to him.

Yeah, the dad was in the wrong... that doesn't mean that I' m not glad he did it

 Jimsolo wrote:
A bully is an animal. The ONLY thing they respect is a bigger, meaner animal.

There was no permanent damage done to the bully.

Some kids just need an attitude adjustment.

Hope this guy gets off light. Hope the "victim's" family reminds him that he-in every way-had this coming to him.

If its California he's ed. Not that they care about kids, they're just not good with punishing criminals.

If you have decided to spend a ton of money on a lawyer by assaulting a child... why not simply spend that money on a lawyer to sue the school and have them expel the bully because your child is not safe?

You would be surprised how easy it is to hold an administration's feet to the fire if a kid is really causing harm to your child. You can even sue the other family and file charges for anything the bully physically does to your child.

If you want to 'keep it real' and piss away tens of thousands of dollars... do that opposed to needing a defense lawyer.

 curran12 wrote:
And then shoving the kid's face into the wall of a bus hard enough to leave cuts? I assume that was just stretching the wording, too, right?

The man, a grown man, attacked a child.

Child shouldn't have attacked his child.
Family above all baby. All other considerations rescinded.

More like 'chance to have self-righteous-and-therefore-socially-okay violence' above all, I'd say.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
A bully is an animal. The ONLY thing they respect is a bigger, meaner animal.

There was no permanent damage done to the bully.

Some kids just need an attitude adjustment.

Hope this guy gets off light. Hope the "victim's" family reminds him that he-in every way-had this coming to him.

If its California he's ed. Not that they care about kids, they're just not good with punishing criminals.

Been to many schools throughout California, we had to move a of because of my dad's job.

Schools there were horrible. the quality in education and teachers in New York were far superior. The whole system in NY, from classes to how they reach our students to get extra help.

My last school in California had to drop wood shop, automotive classes and auto cad classes so they can spend more money on teachers to teach kids who can only speak spanish and spend a ton of money on these "robot babies".

You brought them home and had to take care of them and a computer was able to keep record how long the baby cried for and if you held the baby properly.

It was to help keep kids from becoming "teen parents"

It didn't work. More so after people found out how to cheat. Duct tape the arms behind the head, so the babies head does not snap back. Use a typical refrigerator magnet to make the baby stop crying.

None of the schools I went to sowed any interests in their students, even worse, when there was a bullying problem, it was an inconvenience to hear about it.

We disagree on many things PH. However experience in Cali with people who went through the schools there supports you 100%.

 daedalus wrote:
Of course, you lose a lot of points for needing your dad to do the job, but for sufficiently levels of crazy, it proves the point.

It seems someone screwed up the taunt "My dad can beat up your dad"

My Dad was a jarhead DI. My Dad would throw your Dad down a flight of stairs in a footlocker and call it "positive attitude adjustment," and then make him do pushups.

I went to a public school in California and my experience greatly differed from yours, Piston Honda. We had all of the classes your last school dropped, lacked "robot babies" and the staff took bullying seriously--especially post-Columbine.

I know it is all the rage on Dakka to take a steaming gak on anything remotely related to California, but not all of the public schools are in the crapper. Some schools actually help develop students into reasonably well adjust individuals. Shocker, I know, but they are out there.

Where did you live at DT?

 d-usa wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Wouldn't proper protocol call for the dad to beat up the dad of the bully?

Back in the day, yes.

"Everytime your kid hurts mine, I hurt you." - A more civilized parent, from a more civilized time.

I thought it was...

If they hurt one of yours' you put one of their's in the grave?

 Frazzled wrote:
Where did you live at DT?

Glendale initially and then the San Gabriel Valley. My high school was in the SGV area which is predominantly middle-class and likely a major factor for why my experience differed from PH's school experience.

We didn't have a lot of teenage pregnancy in my school. I think there were two or three pregnancies that I was aware of during my four years in high school, though certainly a number of girls had kids shortly after high school. We had a pretty even mix of Caucasian, Hispanic and Asian students with Caucasian and Asian students split as the majority followed by Hispanic students and "everyone else" making up the rest of the population.

I have no doubt that economics and demographics influenced a large part of my school experience versus PH's school experience, but I only interjected my anecdote to offer up another side of the argument that California schools abandon their students--which isn't always true. There are some great public schools in the state that get over-shadowed by the gakky ones.

No matter how much of a bully that kid was, an adult assaulting a child like that is always very, very wrong and really kinda sad. You are an adult, damn it, behave like it, and don't go around venting your anger on some defenseless little kid. There are plenty of ways to stop bullying that don't involve a grown man hurting and threatening little kids.

 Frazzled wrote:
My Dad was a jarhead DI.

That...explains a lot.


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 Iron_Captain wrote:
No matter how much of a bully that kid was, an adult assaulting a child like that is always very, very wrong and really kinda sad. You are an adult, damn it, behave like it, and don't go around venting your anger on some defenseless little kid. There are plenty of ways to stop bullying that don't involve a grown man hurting and threatening little kids.

Umm...I'm not sure that there are, actually.

Real bullies don't respond to kindness. Or reason. Kids who have descended to that point, where they are little more than a bipedal predator, can only be kept in line with the threat of a meaner predator. So you can hurt them, or you can threaten to hurt them, but those are pretty much your options.

I mean, it'd be great to find out what kind of situation they are in that has caused them to be like this, but that's a long-term solution. In order to get short term results, someone needs to give them an immediate attitude adjustment. And then, AFTERWARDS, you can attempt to show them that responsible people use violence (or the threat of violence) only to protect themselves, their families, or people being preyed upon by those stronger than themselves.

Did the dad go a little too far? Sure. Did he have the wrong idea? Not in the slightest. He probably should have tried to throw a scare into the kid first.

It seems like the fact that the bus driver didn't even report it is really telling here. I think that says a lot about the "victim" in this story, that the only other adult present not only didn't intervene, but didn't even bother to make a statement to the authorities.

Does anyone care about the real victim?

The Autistic kid?

You know, not only bullied, but has to watch his dad get violent on the kid?