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 jasper76 wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
This thread feels like bait.

I'm always accused of being a troll-baiter.

Has the world gotten so grim that people of differing opinions can't desire to open communications with one another to try and see how other people think?

It is not that you have a different opinion, it is how you present it and defend it. It is like the old adage that the only common link between you and all your failed relationships is you. If you are always being called a troll it may not be because people just have a differing opinion.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
This thread feels like bait.

I'm always accused of being a troll-baiter.

Has the world gotten so grim that people of differing opinions can't open communications with one another to try and see how other people think?

In this country? Pretty much yes.

 Frazzled wrote:

Gallup July 28th in Presidency Approval
GW: 40%
Obama: 39%

In May of 2006 (second year of second term) Bush's approval fell to 31 points.

Sloppy analysis.

Is what you're doing "opening communications?"

Maybe at a DNC convention...

 whembly wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Okay... but words have meaning.

They do indeed, and I will be very happy the day that america learns what socialism is. And when they put the letter 'u' back into all those words...

At "what degree" does a country need to be "Centrally Planned" in order to be considered a "Socialist Country"?

Zero? One does not require central planning to be a socialist country.

<whembly: HAL... what does Central Planning Means?>
<...>
<...>
<ding!>
<HAL: Centrally Planned Economy. Definition of 'Centrally Planned Economy' An economic system in which economic decisions are made by the state or government rather than by the interaction between consumers and businesses.>
<whembly: thanks HAL!>

*HAL = Google

Aaaand missing entirely the point that socialism does not have to use central planning?

Yay! Party for all except Whembly (because we wpuld not want to be TOO socialist now, would we ).

 whembly wrote:

Those are social programs... doesn't make the country "socialist". Big distinction dude.

Not really, unless you're speaking about rhetoric; which is basically just what makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

 Ahtman wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
This thread feels like bait.

I'm always accused of being a troll-baiter.

Has the world gotten so grim that people of differing opinions can't desire to open communications with one another to try and see how other people think?

It is not that you have a different opinion, it is how you present it and defend it. It is like the old adage that the only common link between you and all your failed relationships is you. If you are always being called a troll it may not be because people just have a differing opinion.

Well, its really just you who are always calling me a troll (and now, I guess, Frazzled).

If you think I'm a troll, that's fine by me. I don't have too much of a need to be liked. In any case, being a troll is never my intent, and I do regularly have meaningful conversations with people with opposing views on these boards, so please kindly just put me on Ignore and move on, rather than tone-trolling me.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Strong public speaking skills and an awareness of pop culture that makes him seem "cool" unfortunately don't equate to actual results, since the ideas he's peddling are either couched in ignorance, at best, or socialism, at worst. .

And this is the real problem. American politics have become so adversarial that nothing can get done.

Also, you walked right into the criticism Obama levied against conservative members of Congress, that was not wise. Be better.

 jasper76 wrote:
Well, its really just you who are always calling me a troll (and now, I guess, Frazzled).

Actually you referred to yourself as such, I just used the verbiage you brought up. If I were to think you were a troll it wouldn't be because I disagree with you, it would be because I think you are disingenuous and purposefully trying to rile people.

Sure then, well you posted accusing me of posting "bait". In your mind, perhaps this isnt the same as calling me a troll, I guess.

And now you're accusing me of being "disingenuous" and "trying to rile people".

The Ignore button. Hit it, and I go away forever.

But don't expect me to change my tone or limit my desire to discuss issues I find interesting because these things apparently rub you the wrong way. To my knowledge, I have never broken any dakka rules (other than accidental duplicate posts). If you'd like me to shut up, maybe you should apply for a moderator position. As always, I submit to the discretion of the moderators as a condition of every single thread I start and every single post I make.

 Ahtman wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Well, its really just you who are always calling me a troll (and now, I guess, Frazzled).

Actually you referred to yourself as such, I just used the verbiage you brought up. If I were to think you were a troll it wouldn't be because I disagree with you, it would be because I think you are disingenuous and purposefully trying to rile people.

What he said.

 Ma55ter_fett wrote:
Does public opinion determine how good a president is?

I'd be more willing to say that how the public perceives "how good a president is" determines the public opinion... Ie. if the public perceives the president is not doing anything to help old ladies cross the street, then they'll think he's a bad president, and their opinion of him will be low as a result of that.

 jasper76 wrote:
The Ignore button. Hit it, and I go away forever.

Why would I want that?

 jasper76 wrote:
desire to discuss issues

I still don't believe you to be sincere on that front.

 jasper76 wrote:
If you'd like me to shut up...

No one has told you to shut up, just questioned your sincerity, and you really aren't helping your cause with things like this.

 jasper76 wrote:
...maybe you should apply for a moderator position.

That isn't what mods do.

Points up...my reply.

Frazzled, you're welcome and free to Ignore me, or apply for a moderator job and censor my posts as you see fit, as well.

In any case, cheers and good health!

But don't expect me to change my tone or limit my desire to discuss issues I find interesting because these things apparently rub you the wrong way. To my knowledge, I have never broken any dakka rules (other than accidental duplicate posts). If you'd like me to shut up, maybe you should apply for a moderator position. As always, I submit to the discretion of the moderators as a condition of every single thread I start and every single post I make.

That chip on your shoulder must be pretty heavy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

But don't expect me to change my tone or limit my desire to discuss issues I find interesting because these things apparently rub you the wrong way. To my knowledge, I have never broken any dakka rules (other than accidental duplicate posts). If you'd like me to shut up, maybe you should apply for a moderator position. As always, I submit to the discretion of the moderators as a condition of every single thread I start and every single post I make.

That chip on your shoulder must be pretty heavy.

I get tone-trolled by you an Ahtman, and I'm the one with a chip on my shoulder? I give up. Your feelings about me have been made plain. Cheers and good health to both of you!

 jasper76 wrote:
Points up...my reply.

Frazzled, you're welcome and free to Ignore me, or apply for a moderator job and censor my posts as you see fit, as well.

In any case, cheers and good health!

I was a Mod. They kicked me out. And where's the justice in that? Just because a man makes a little mistake with a flame thrower and the Louvre and BAM! he's out. No Justice no Peace!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jasper76 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

But don't expect me to change my tone or limit my desire to discuss issues I find interesting because these things apparently rub you the wrong way. To my knowledge, I have never broken any dakka rules (other than accidental duplicate posts). If you'd like me to shut up, maybe you should apply for a moderator position. As always, I submit to the discretion of the moderators as a condition of every single thread I start and every single post I make.

That chip on your shoulder must be pretty heavy.

I get tone-trolled by you an Ahtman, and I'm the one with a chip on my shoulder? I give up. Your feelings about me have been made plain. Cheers and good health to both of you!

Wrong guy. I'm not Ahtman, I'm Frazzled, prince of wiener dogs.

I'm Ahtman! No I am Ahtman!

Yup. I said "by you and Ahtman".

Discalimer: Nothing in this post was intended to offend anyone. Nothing about this post is insincere; it is a simple statement of fact. Nothing about this post is disingenuous; I really do mean what I am saying here. Nothing in this post is intended to rile people up.

Here's the problem. Making Congress look stupid is easy, but it gets you nowhere. Working with Congress, thats hard.

Making fun of Congress: child's play
Working with Congress: how adults play

 Frazzled wrote:

Working with Congress: how adults play

Guess all of congress has that rare genetic disease that prematurely ages people, cuz there sure are a lot of children in it

 dogma wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Strong public speaking skills and an awareness of pop culture that makes him seem "cool" unfortunately don't equate to actual results, since the ideas he's peddling are either couched in ignorance, at best, or socialism, at worst. .

And this is the real problem. American politics have become so adversarial that nothing can get done.

Also, you walked right into the criticism Obama levied against conservative members of Congress, that was not wise. Be better.

Congress is right. Obama is wrong. You are not the sole arbiter of judgment.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Working with Congress: how adults play

Guess all of congress has that rare genetic disease that prematurely ages people, cuz there sure are a lot of children in it

no disagreement there.

 Frazzled wrote:
Here's the problem. Making Congress look stupid is easy, but it gets you nowhere. Working with Congress, thats hard.

Making fun of Congress: child's play
Working with Congress: how adults play

OK, now we get to what you actually object to. I am inclined to agree with you, however the way I see things, Obama hasn't gotten anywhere trying to work with Congress in the past, and they are not doing much constructive now (for example, futile and repeated attempts to repeal the ACA could be replaced by worthwhile efforts to try and improve the law). The opposition was obstructionist from Day 1 up to the present day, even on issues where there is mutual agreement, and some Republicans have even admitted that they believe they cannot let Obama be successful at anything, because to do so would give them a disadvantage against Democrats during elections. In my opinion, this tactic is extremely unhealthy for the country, whether it is employed by Democrats or Republicans.

But all I meant by posting this was to point out that Obama can be pretty funny whilst taking jabs at Congress, moreso than any of his predecessors in my living memory have been, who have taken more of a mean-spirited and humorless approach at criticizing Congress in the media.

 jasper76 wrote:

But all I meant by posting this was to point out that Obama can be pretty funny whilst taking jabs at Congress, moreso than any of his predecessors have been, who have taken more of a mean-spirited and humorless approach at criticizing Congress in the media.

I don't know man... I can't think of anyone else beating the narcissism of Obama's "I won" statement.

 whembly wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

But all I meant by posting this was to point out that Obama can be pretty funny whilst taking jabs at Congress, moreso than any of his predecessors have been, who have taken more of a mean-spirited and humorless approach at criticizing Congress in the media.

I don't know man... I can't think of anyone else beating the narcissism of Obama's "I won" statement.

I'm not familiar with that statement. The article does a terrible job at putting it in context; the conversation that led to the statement is left entirely to the reader's imagination.

 whembly wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

But all I meant by posting this was to point out that Obama can be pretty funny whilst taking jabs at Congress, moreso than any of his predecessors have been, who have taken more of a mean-spirited and humorless approach at criticizing Congress in the media.

I don't know man... I can't think of anyone else beating the narcissism of Obama's "I won" statement.

 jasper76 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

But all I meant by posting this was to point out that Obama can be pretty funny whilst taking jabs at Congress, moreso than any of his predecessors have been, who have taken more of a mean-spirited and humorless approach at criticizing Congress in the media.

I don't know man... I can't think of anyone else beating the narcissism of Obama's "I won" statement.

I'm not familiar with that statement.

Honest question: when did you start paying attention to politics?

The article does a terrible job at putting it in context; the conversation that led to the statement is left entirely to the reader's imagination.

Better?
http://nypost.com/2009/01/24/prez-zings-gop-foe-in-a-timulating-talk/

...
One White House official confirmed the comment but said he was simply trying to make a larger point about bipartisan efforts.

“There are big things that unify Republicans and Democrats,” the official said. “We shouldn’t let partisan politics derail what are very important things that need to get done.”

That wasn’t Obama’s only jab at Republicans today.

In an exchange with Rep. Eric Cantor (R-Va.) about the proposal, the president shot back: “I won,” according to aides briefed on the meeting.

“I will trump you on that.”

Not that Obama was gloating. He was just explaining that he aims to get his way on stimulus package and all other legislation, sources said, noting his unrivaled one-party control of both congressional chambers.
...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

But all I meant by posting this was to point out that Obama can be pretty funny whilst taking jabs at Congress, moreso than any of his predecessors have been, who have taken more of a mean-spirited and humorless approach at criticizing Congress in the media.

I don't know man... I can't think of anyone else beating the narcissism of Obama's "I won" statement.

Doesn't do it for me.

 whembly wrote:

...
One White House official confirmed the comment but said he was simply trying to make a larger point about bipartisan efforts.

“There are big things that unify Republicans and Democrats,” the official said. “We shouldn’t let partisan politics derail what are very important things that need to get done.”

That wasn’t Obama’s only jab at Republicans today.

In an exchange with Rep. Eric Cantor (R-Va.) about the proposal, the president shot back: “I won,” according to aides briefed on the meeting.

“I will trump you on that.”

Not that Obama was gloating. He was just explaining that he aims to get his way on stimulus package and all other legislation, sources said, noting his unrivaled one-party control of both congressional chambers.
...

Not much better. What exactly did Eric Cantor say before he said that?

Something like:

"You should take our ideas seriously, because when it comes down to it, you didn't win that election fairly?"

Or something like:

"We really want to work with you to come to compromise solutions on issues that are important to us.I know elections have consequences, but do you think you can try and come together at the negotiating table in the spirit of bipartisanship?"

Context needed.

As for when I started paying attention to politics, not entirely sure...well before Obama. It is likely I was just not following the news at this particular point in time. I am not being disingenuous here (sorry, I suddenly feel a need to say this), I honestly had not heard about this before.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Strong public speaking skills and an awareness of pop culture that makes him seem "cool" unfortunately don't equate to actual results, since the ideas he's peddling are either couched in ignorance, at best, or socialism, at worst.

His ability to impress the young generation not withstanding, this says more about the (unfortunate) state of the young generation than it does about his abilities as president.

You heard it here from NuggzTheNinja first folks. Socialism: The Worst, also Kids Today.

Obama says "I win": most narcissistic statement by a president ever.

Bush getting himself flown to an aircraft carrier, declaring "Mission accomplished" even though none of the actual reasons we went to war were accomplished, with the war going on for many more years afterwards and the majority of our soldiers getting killed after this picture was taken: doesn't do it for you.

And that's why nobody bothers anymore...