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Yes LR as a DT only did make it tough for the Blood Angels, at least until the Fast Vincators rolled out.

 Jayden63 wrote:


And it breaks the game. For every one fluffy use of allies and its shinnanigans there are ten power breaks and abusive elements. Also there are some units that were specificslly designed and pointed as such because of their transport limitations.

Comments like this amuse me.

I'm competitive. I like to win. I'm also a roleplayer/writer, and somewhat pedantic and obsessive.

The game is broken anyway. Warhammer has never been balanced. Not once in its entire twenty five year history.

This is just going back to the 2e thing of having transports available as part of your Support selection rather than shoe-horning them into the Troops selection. It's completely in line with the rest of the 'back to second' changes that have been made in sixth and seventh editions.

Oh no! Woe! Games Workshop are trusting their players to put mutual fun over running 'broken' lists! The end times are nigh! Ours is deserved damnation!

Personally, I'll take my allied SW drop pods and stick Celestians in them and have a whale of a time purging rogue Marine chapters, thanks.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:


And it breaks the game. For every one fluffy use of allies and its shinnanigans there are ten power breaks and abusive elements. Also there are some units that were specificslly designed and pointed as such because of their transport limitations.

Comments like this amuse me.

I'm competitive. I like to win. I'm also a roleplayer/writer, and somewhat pedantic and obsessive.

The game is broken anyway. Warhammer has never been balanced. Not once in its entire twenty five year history.

This is just going back to the 2e thing of having transports available as part of your Support selection rather than shoe-horning them into the Troops selection. It's completely in line with the rest of the 'back to second' changes that have been made in sixth and seventh editions.

Oh no! Woe! Games Workshop are trusting their players to put mutual fun over running 'broken' lists! The end times are nigh! Ours is deserved damnation!

Personally, I'll take my allied SW drop pods and stick Celestians in them and have a whale of a time purging rogue Marine chapters, thanks.

^This
And I am thinking Melta-Vets with Demo Charges.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Certain heavy transports (LRs, Battlewagons...) were available as Heavy Support and dedicated transport choices before. It makes sense to have a similar option for light transports too.

This, it allows for more Unbound mashups. Waaay back, IG Epic armies could take Rhinos - whilst there'll be abuse of the 'anyone can ride in anything' dynamic, it will allow for more creative themed & retro stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It does allow for a Tac squad to split and ride in two RBs. Though there's no excuse for this not already being an option.

 Happyjew wrote:

Fireraven wrote:
No it does not. Land raiders are a heavy look at the codex. I love people that speculate or gripe with out ever looking at new codex or anything. Land Raider are clearly maked at the top of there page as a heavy Support. So yes if you had an extra heavy slot you can field a Land raider. This is an Slightly new addition to 40k and will all be fixed when the armies get new codex's. we can speculate all we want but i would say a wave will probably be a heavy transport as well. If you go back to the Space marine codex it self it even has land raider listed as a heavy.

In the SM Codex, yes, however, BA can only take Land Raiders as a DT. They do not have access to them as a non-DT.

Centurions cannot ride in a drop pod the only transport they have allowed in a LAND RAIDER period regardless of the allies involved.

The only transport they can purchase as dedicated is a Land Raider. Nothing restricts them from embarking in other transports, except for the transport itself, such as Rhinos or Razorbacks. If you really wanted to you could have a few of them pile into an AM Chimera.

Show me the rules that allow this. The rules for what vehicle they can embark in are listed on the units them selves. Now this is regardless of faction affiliation but the transports that can be used by a unit is listed with them not a rule that states well if the shoe fits wear it.

No, the rules for what vehicles they can embark in are shown in the rulebook, where it says that any model can embark on any allied vehicle.

The codex only shows what kind of transports they can buy as upgrades without taking up an additional slot on the force organisation chart.

So Drop Pods as FA choices dont break the game because only squads that can take drop pods as dedicated transports can actually use them, since you need to start the game inside a transport that arrives via deep strike, right?

 Sir Arun wrote:
So Drop Pods as FA choices dont break the game because only squads that can take drop pods as dedicated transports can actually use them, since you need to start the game inside a transport that arrives via deep strike, right?

Was this directed at Fireraven?

 Sir Arun wrote:
So Drop Pods as FA choices dont break the game because only squads that can take drop pods as dedicated transports can actually use them, since you need to start the game inside a transport that arrives via deep strike, right?

Any unit can be place in a Transport during Deployment. The restriction is Units with a Dedicated Transport can only Deploy in Their Transport.

yes. I was being a bit sarcastic.

I think the rule is pretty clear that the only distinction a transport labeled "dedicated transport" does, is it does not occupy a FoC slot when purchased as such, and that only the squad it was purchased for can begin the game inside it.

For all other intents and purposes, it works the same way as a transport vehicle bought as a FoC occupant.

E.g. if I buy a Land Raider from the HS section, I can start the game with my Centurions in it, but because I did not buy it as a dedicated transport for them, I can also start the game with my Guardsmen in it if I am allied with AM.

Why should drop pods be excempt? 1 Centurion occupies 3 transport seats, so 3 = 9 seats, meaning they can squeeze into a Space Wolf drop pod.

Turn 1 arrival, grav cannon massacre. Sarge with omniscope means a 2nd squad will also take casualties.

Since the drop pod can have 10 dudes, you can also squeeze in Tiggy who can give the centurions all sorts of bonuses. If he rolls Prescience, Forewarning and Perfect Timing, you're in for a massacre.

This is why we call em shenanigans.

Heh. Imagine doing it with Heavy Flamer Retributors.

EDIT the Shoe Fits Point was a distraction.

There are specific transport for each unit listed for a reason it does not matter what slot it can now take up. Like i said if it does not have it listed it is not allowed. Like the what you see is what you get on the models weapons. a sword sword does not = a thunder hammer you need to have it done that way if that is the setup you are using or magnetize it.

A lot of things are very basic do not try and be a rules lawyer it ruins games and everyone that does this is just trying to bend the rules for them so they can gain an advantage.
The reason they have the may select it that its not only an option but that is telling you what they can use. They do this for the purpose of point modifiers like BA assault troops removing jump packs and getting a cheaper then normal transport. But that still does not change that is a dedicated transport bought specifically with the unit. Or Maybe I in my Hooked on Phonics reading needs improvement.

But the dedicated transport rules are very clear that you can switch unit in transport after the game begins that = at the start of Turn 1. Not put x unit that was never designed for x transport in your deployment zone or via deep striking as the case of the centurions. Now with that said yes you can buy a drop pod and sure you can deep strike it but if you do not buy it with a unit then it comes in empty and take up a fast attack slot in your chart. that is what the new rules changed. Before it adopted what ever units slot it took up like an elite unit with a drop pod for technical reason was an elite drop pod with the unit. now they are all fast attacks when bought. Land raiders are heavies. Yes land raider with army (A) and allies can be used. But as of deployment you can not have x unit that is not in the army dex of the y transport hold them. That has to be done at after start of turn one.

Example: i cannot load my Wolf Guard Terminators in my Blood angels Land raider and say they are deep striking via the land raider. I can start the game with me BA land raider deployed on the field with a squad of BA Terminators, And in my allies deploy my wolf guard terminates on the field as well load them on my turn all up in in the land raider and roll out if my BA terminators are out side of it. That is the black and white versions of the rules.

Fireraven wrote:
It does not though add an exemption that well just because its an x faction transport they auto can get in it there are transports listed on the units for a reason that they can use the end. Yes they are not allies but that does not auto redo everthing that if the show fit they can read it they are a size 12 d and for that foot size only the 12d person can wear it. not the 12 guy because he can.

Uh, what? Please rewrite that in a more coherent fashion. You appear to be talking about their cup sizes now?

Fireraven wrote:
It does not though add an exemption that well just because its an x faction transport they auto can get in it there are transports listed on the units for a reason that they can use the end. Yes they are not allies but that does not auto redo everthing that if the show fit they can read it they are a size 12 d and for that foot size only the 12d person can wear it. not the 12 guy because he can.

I appreciate that you might not be a native English speaker... but as a native English speaker I cannot decipher this post. If you can repost it and take a bit more care with sentence structure so we can understand, that would be nice.


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 Furyou Miko wrote:
Comments like this amuse me.

The "it's always sucked to varying degrees so now we'll just make it suck more and it's fine" argument isn't the best one IMO

Fireraven wrote:
It does not though add an exemption that well just because its an x faction transport they auto can get in it there are transports listed on the units for a reason that they can use the end. Yes they are not allies but that does not auto redo everthing that if the show fit they can read it they are a size 12 d and for that foot size only the 12d person can wear it. not the 12 guy because he can.

Looks like you havent spent much time with the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

Else you would know this is not how the rules work. Dedicated transport's original intent was to free up FoC slots. No longer relevant in 7th edition's day and age, but still.

Fire Raven - no space marine or IG unit lists a spartan under their dedicated transports section. Does this mean no-one can actually be transported in a Spartan using your logic?

Poly Ranger wrote:
Fire Raven - no space marine or IG unit lists a spartan under their dedicated transports section. Does this mean no-one can actually be transported in a Spartan using your logic?

Spartan is a Forgeworld product and has its own rules so Yes there is a great case in point. Lets use the SM Basic Codex :Terminator squad as the example there because its an easy answer. Under the section under them it states MAY a land raider of any type as as a dedicated transport. Is the spartan a Land Raider YES. That satisfies that rule req. If it was a razor Back or a Rhino unless the rules for the transport in the imperial armor rules allowed it to carry terminators then no.

For the Imperial Guard I would have to go unless the rules set for that model from Forgeworld changes something then NO I can look at an imperial Guard codex but i do not believe they have a Land Raider in there at all Do not own that one. But after deployment at the start of turn 1 then it can jump on board and roll out yes.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Fireraven wrote:
It does not though add an exemption that well just because its an x faction transport they auto can get in it there are transports listed on the units for a reason that they can use the end. Yes they are not allies but that does not auto redo everthing that if the show fit they can read it they are a size 12 d and for that foot size only the 12d person can wear it. not the 12 guy because he can.

I appreciate that you might not be a native English speaker... but as a native English speaker I cannot decipher this post. If you can repost it and take a bit more care with sentence structure so we can understand, that would be nice.

... He's American. While some of us may argue that this does not, indeed, make him a native English speaker...

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Comments like this amuse me.

The "it's always sucked to varying degrees so now we'll just make it suck more and it's fine" argument isn't the best one IMO

Oh, you misunderstand me. My point isn't "It's always sucked", my point was "That isn't sucking, that's how it's designed". It doesn't suck at all, it's awesome.

Fireraven wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Fire Raven - no space marine or IG unit lists a spartan under their dedicated transports section. Does this mean no-one can actually be transported in a Spartan using your logic?

Spartan is a Forgeworld product and has its own rules so Yes there is a great case in point. Lets use the SM Basic Codex :Terminator squad as the example there because its an easy answer. Under the section under them it states MAY a land raider of any type as as a dedicated transport. Is the spartan a Land Raider YES. That satisfies that rule req. If it was a razor Back or a Rhino unless the rules for the transport in the imperial armor rules allowed it to carry terminators then no.

For the Imperial Guard I would have to go unless the rules set for that model from Forgeworld changes something then NO I can look at an imperial Guard codex but i do not believe they have a Land Raider in there at all Do not own that one. But after deployment at the start of turn 1 then it can jump on board and roll out yes.

Fireraven. Terminators cannot climb into Rhinos/Razorbacks, not because they don't have the option to take one as a transport, but because the rules for Rhinos/Razorbacks (or Terminator Armour), specifically forbid it. Any unit can embark into a transport as long as a rule does not forbid it (such as Rhinos and Terminator Armour). With Dedicated Transport, only the unit that bought it can start inside, but after the start of the game, any unit can climb on board. SW Drop Pods can be taken as a FA choice, just like a LR can be taken as a HS choice in C:SM. Since it is not dedicated, any unit not specifically forbidden from embarking, can start in it.

Read the Deployment section in the rules.
Deploying transports its pretty well covered there.

And Yes i agree terms cannot be in rhinos or razor backs. And it specifically says they cannot as well. If they did not then if transport allowed after deployment let say your terms get decimated to the point of lets say 1-2 models you could roll up in throw them in run them away because the shoe could then fit but Specificlly made a rule so this could not happen.

lindsay40k wrote:Waaay back, IG Epic armies could take Rhinos -

Yeah, but that was only because there were no such things as Chimeras (or any of the other IG tanks) yet. The fluff for the IG was completely revamped with their 2nd Edition codex.

Fireraven wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Fire Raven - no space marine or IG unit lists a spartan under their dedicated transports section. Does this mean no-one can actually be transported in a Spartan using your logic?

Spartan is a Forgeworld product and has its own rules so Yes there is a great case in point. Lets use the SM Basic Codex :Terminator squad as the example there because its an easy answer. Under the section under them it states MAY a land raider of any type as as a dedicated transport. Is the spartan a Land Raider YES. That satisfies that rule req. If it was a razor Back or a Rhino unless the rules for the transport in the imperial armor rules allowed it to carry terminators then no.

For the Imperial Guard I would have to go unless the rules set for that model from Forgeworld changes something then NO I can look at an imperial Guard codex but i do not believe they have a Land Raider in there at all Do not own that one. But after deployment at the start of turn 1 then it can jump on board and roll out yes.

Sorry - I could have made my point simpler, which I will do so now. Your logic states that a squad cannot start in a transport if it cannot take it as a dedicated transport. Tactical marines in c:sm cannot take a landraider as a dedicated transport. Can they therefore not embark into a landraider since it is a HS slot and not a listed dedicated transport for them? If they can, how is that different from a centurion squad starting in an allied SW drop pod? Is it that the drop pod is a FA choice and somehow FA transports are not allowed to transport squads but heavy transports are (citation please)? Or is it that you think you cannot start in a transport unless it is dedicated? I can point you to rules discounting the last option if that is your argument.

I'm getting the feeling that Fireraven isn't very familiar with the rules for allies as pertains to transports.

Dedicated Transport - The unit that purchased the transport is the only unit that can START the game embarked in it. After that, it's fair game to any unit from the army or Battle Brother unit who can embark barring exceptions (eg Termies in Rhino chassis).

Transport - Any unit from the army, or Battle Brothers ally, may begin the game embarked in the transport barring any rules specifically forbidding that unit from being in that transport (eg Termies in Rhino chassis).

That's how it works now. It's all in black and white in the 7th Ed rule book. So with the dedicated transports being listed as FA options (and potentially HS options in the future) that means that ANY UNIT that fits the above requirements can begin the game embarked in one that wasn't purchased a dedicated transport. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Also, with the situation Fireraven described, NO ONE AND NOTHING would be allowed to ride in a Morka/Gorkanaut. It has transport capacity but no unit lists it as a transport.

... I think I know what the problem is.

Fireraven, your rule book. What does it have on the cover? 'cause if it's mostly yellow with Black Templars on it, there's the problem. You're an edition behind.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
... I think I know what the problem is.

Fireraven, your rule book. What does it have on the cover? 'cause if it's mostly yellow with Black Templars on it, there's the problem. You're an edition behind.

Those would be Dark Angels on the cover of the 6th edition rulebook I believe . Black Templars don't have red tac signs or bolter casings.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
... I think I know what the problem is.

Fireraven, your rule book. What does it have on the cover? 'cause if it's mostly yellow with Black Templars on it, there's the problem. You're an edition behind.

that would be the 3rd edition rulebook

 Furyou Miko wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Fireraven wrote:
It does not though add an exemption that well just because its an x faction transport they auto can get in it there are transports listed on the units for a reason that they can use the end. Yes they are not allies but that does not auto redo everthing that if the show fit they can read it they are a size 12 d and for that foot size only the 12d person can wear it. not the 12 guy because he can.

I appreciate that you might not be a native English speaker... but as a native English speaker I cannot decipher this post. If you can repost it and take a bit more care with sentence structure so we can understand, that would be nice.

... He's American. While some of us may argue that this does not, indeed, make him a native English speaker...

You could but you be wrong, there is a reason some school districts have full sets of classes only in Spanish.

Noir, I was making a joke about American English not being proper English.

Ironically, some of the worst mangling I see of the English language on Dakka is from people who have the Union Jack showing.

 Ghaz wrote:
Ironically, some of the worst mangling I see of the English language on Dakka is from people who have the Union Jack showing.

The problem is, they're trying to speak English.

The rest of the world speaks American.