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 Stonerhino wrote:
So then you are arguing that Kharn is the ONLY World Eater. It might be easier to just say Kharn then. It is a mouth full to say "If it's an original World Eater, A true son of Angron who fought during those days where Orks were the size of dreadnoughts to 40K's mockeries, Who pale in comparison.
A man who possibly honed his skill and fought in the Conqueror's fighting pits for hours upon hours, A man whose Bloodthirst is never sated?".

The fact you've read one story in which they chose a Blood Angel as a champion doesn't mean much.
Kharn being the Space Marine with the highest personal kill tally however, Does.

Besides, Picking a man as a Champion doesn't mean he's stronger than his Patron.

 PhillyT wrote:
I was under the impression that the original legions for each chaos god became the specific marines for their gods. There are no non Plague Marine Deathguard, No Thousand Sons who aren't... Thousand Sons. etc.

but Fabulous Bill is an Emperor's Children SM and is not devoted to Slanesh and definitely not a noise marine.

At least 1 of the thousand sons was around and became one of the original Grey Knights

 Orblivion wrote:
Honestly a Flesh Tearer fallen to the Black Rage is no different than a Blood Angel fallen to the Black Rage. It overrides their own sense of self, so the cultural differences between the Flesh Tearers and Blood Angels just goes out the window.

False. The blood angels death company still try to avoid colateral damage. They can control themselves, but barely, and that control is slowly slipping away. Flesh tearers are so out there that they were almost declared traitors. When the normal dudes in a chapter dont care about the thousands of guardsmen and civilians that get "accidentally" hacked apart or eaten during the battle, you can bet that those fallen to the black rage have no sense of self or reservation.

The death co wins, every time. Faith and purpose beats blind savagery every time.

 th3maninblak wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
Honestly a Flesh Tearer fallen to the Black Rage is no different than a Blood Angel fallen to the Black Rage. It overrides their own sense of self, so the cultural differences between the Flesh Tearers and Blood Angels just goes out the window.

False. The blood angels death company still try to avoid colateral damage. They can control themselves, but barely, and that control is slowly slipping away. Flesh tearers are so out there that they were almost declared traitors. When the normal dudes in a chapter dont care about the thousands of guardsmen and civilians that get "accidentally" hacked apart or eaten during the battle, you can bet that those fallen to the black rage have no sense of self or reservation.

The death co wins, every time. Faith and purpose beats blind savagery every time.

No, you're thinking Red Thirst. Death Company are the ones who think they are Sanguinius, there is no Blood Angel or Flesh Tearer personality anymore.

Somebody living through 10,000 years of constant war is a ridiculous notion. Do you have any idea how long that is?

Kharn, a Chaos marine beserker semi chosen by a god, with a weapon of a primarch, 10,000 years battle experience, the highest kill count of anyone.

beating him is going to be very tall order.
only one of the most deadly fighters in the universe.

I would say the World Eater, provided we are talking about a Khorne devotee(not someone who merely possesses the world eater gene seed)

A flesh terror who has fallen to the thirst would have presumably not fallen to the thirst at some point relatively recently. You dont last very long in the "Death Company" as the tactics lead to many casualties and even without combat eventually the DC go mad. So their training and martial prowess would be better than an average space marine but not by too much. Much of their training might actually have been as a devistator, a stormtalon pilot, or a tactical marine. It is possible only recently they became devoted to melee to no end. Even if they had previously been an assault marine, they still would have been cross trained in other roles.

A Khorne Devoted World Eater is an entirely different thing all together. They worship battle, especilly melee. Devotion to khorne is no easy slanesh deal. It required dedication. Sure they become lost in battle as the blood flows, but when the battle is not there they are more devoted to training and spend more time practicing it.

Also while the fleshtearers where "ALMOST" deamed traitors for their savagery, world eaters would CERTAINLY be deemed traitors for the way they conduct warfare.

Alcibiades wrote:
Somebody living through 10,000 years of constant war is a ridiculous notion. Do you have any idea how long that is?

Because he's that good.

Kharn is a dangerous dude. He never misses... he just doesn't always hit the person he was (probably) aiming at.

Even with his plasma pistol, if he rolls a one he hits himself

 PhillyT wrote:
I thought all World Eaters became bezerkers.

I'd love to see berzerker piloting a space cruiser.

The only possible way of doing it is to create some sort of controles that fight back. You strike one side with your chain axe and the cruiser pivots left, another side and it pivots right, you give it a headbutt and it propels into the warp...

Alcibiades wrote:
Somebody living through 10,000 years of constant war is a ridiculous notion. Do you have any idea how long that is?

Because Warhammer makes sense.

Alcibiades wrote:
Somebody living through 10,000 years of constant war is a ridiculous notion. Do you have any idea how long that is?

Kharn, Fabius, Abbadon, typhus, ahriman, need i go on?

A Flesh Tearer Death Company marine would probably rip a 'zerker in half and then beat the rest of the squad of zerkers to death with the body parts.

 the shrouded lord wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
Somebody living through 10,000 years of constant war is a ridiculous notion. Do you have any idea how long that is?

Kharn, Fabius, Abbadon, typhus, ahriman, need i go on?

And yet they have all resided in the warp for much of that time, not the materium. The Night Lords Omnibus made a great point of this. They had been around since the heresy, but only outside the warp for about a century worth of time in said 10,000 years.

Time flows odd in there. You could go in and come out months later, years later, or before you even left.

I'm sure time has passed in the warp, but nowhere near as long as 10,000 years. Dante is supposed to be the oldest living marine at about 1300, and everyone in bewildered he is even kicking. If the others you have listed here had lived 10,000 true years of war it would be an absurd notion, even by geedubs standards.

Time fluctuation in the warp is the whole reason traitor marines are still around from HH era

I gotta go DC marine, flesh tearer or no. They are imbued with the strength of a primarch, savage and the only way to stop them is to kill them. True, the same can be said for a zerker, but they also arent any stronger, faster, or less vulnerable than a normal marine, and have the small matter of having to please their god or they get turned into a pile of guts or something. Plus, TT wise DC will kick the zerkers rear up and down the table.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
Somebody living through 10,000 years of constant war is a ridiculous notion. Do you have any idea how long that is?

Kharn, Fabius, Abbadon, typhus, ahriman, need i go on?

And yet they have all resided in the warp for much of that time, not the materium. The Night Lords Omnibus made a great point of this. They had been around since the heresy, but only outside the warp for about a century worth of time in said 10,000 years.

Time flows odd in there. You could go in and come out months later, years later, or before you even left.

I'm sure time has passed in the warp, but nowhere near as long as 10,000 years. Dante is supposed to be the oldest living marine at about 1300, and everyone in bewildered he is even kicking. If the others you have listed here had lived 10,000 true years of war it would be an absurd notion, even by geedubs standards.

Time fluctuation in the warp is the whole reason traitor marines are still around from HH era

I gotta go DC marine, flesh tearer or no. They are imbued with the strength of a primarch, savage and the only way to stop them is to kill them. True, the same can be said for a zerker, but they also arent any stronger, faster, or less vulnerable than a normal marine, and have the small matter of having to please their god or they get turned into a pile of guts or something. Plus, TT wise DC will kick the zerkers rear up and down the table.

You mean that they could've lived either 100 years, or more importantly with the warp aging over 100,000,000 years? Seriously, that argument is self defeating because it assumes knowledge we do not have and forces assumptions (Even the VOTLW assumes 10,000 years of hatred), not to mention most people are surprised he's living at 1300 because most Marines die long before then due to combat or other.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


You mean that they could've lived either 100 years, or more importantly with the warp aging over 100,000,000 years? Seriously, that argument is self defeating because it assumes knowledge we do not have and forces assumptions (Even the VOTLW assumes 10,000 years of hatred), not to mention most people are surprised he's living at 1300 because most Marines die long before then due to combat or other.

Time works differently in there alright. What doesn't seem to happen is aging. It might even be something of a fountain of youth for some who might have entered at an advanced age, fought inside for a few centuries and then come out with a body of youth.


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 the shrouded lord wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
Somebody living through 10,000 years of constant war is a ridiculous notion. Do you have any idea how long that is?

Kharn, Fabius, Abbadon, typhus, ahriman, need i go on?

Fabulous Bill is almost certainly immortal by now(ageless). I cannot imagine him learning some of the tricks of the Dark Eldar without figuring that one out.

My suspension of disbelief can handle hell-hyperspace and space orks, but it colllapse at surviving 10,000 years of constant war (or even having recognizable human reactions after 10,000 years). This is literally 4 times longer than the time that has elapsed since the death of Socrates. Especially when the warp time displacement gives a way out of it.

The time warp also works in reverse, though, you can go in for a relatively short amount of time, say a week, and pop back out having experienced decades or centuries within the warp. The fluff for the Grey Knights has this, where Titan vanished for a bit with a bunch of potentials, then reappeared with an army of fully trained GKs.
So while it can compress time, it can also stretch it out in relation to real space, so I imagine the HH marines would experience something of a mix between the two.

I dunno who wins the fight, but Khorne wins in the end.

I think due to familiarity, people lose sight of how insane khorne worshipers are, and bezerkers in particular. They are absolutely insane when in their rage. Magically insane.

Alcibiades wrote:
My suspension of disbelief can handle hell-hyperspace and space orks, but it colllapse at surviving 10,000 years of constant war (or even having recognizable human reactions after 10,000 years). This is literally 4 times longer than the time that has elapsed since the death of Socrates. Especially when the warp time displacement gives a way out of it.

Yes. Do not feth with Kharn the Betrayer, because Kharn the Betrayer will feth you up.

We can also point to the Tau jumping some 30,000 years ahead, tech-wise, from first-contact to post-Warp Storm as to the time-slowing properties of the Warp.

Most things in 40k can be hand waved with magic.

Kharn would beat any Blood Angel for two reasons, he's not only a savage fighter but his intelligent and calculating after all he didn't murder members of his own legion for fun he did it because they wussed out fighting the Emp kids, he also has plot armor.

Ironclad Warlord wrote:
Kharn would beat any Blood Angel for two reasons, he's not only a savage fighter but his intelligent and calculating after all he didn't murder members of his own legion for fun he did it because they wussed out fighting the Emp kids, he also has plot armor.

He isn't a freaking vampire lord though.

Alcibiades wrote:
My suspension of disbelief can handle hell-hyperspace and space orks, but it colllapse at surviving 10,000 years of constant war (or even having recognizable human reactions after 10,000 years). This is literally 4 times longer than the time that has elapsed since the death of Socrates. Especially when the warp time displacement gives a way out of it.

You mean the guys who spit acid, eat brains for knowledge, and have multiple failsafe organs inside them might be a bit different from your average human? They barely have human interactions as it is half the time.

Ah, the dark and stupid underbelly of Blood Angel fluff.


ERHMERGERD, VERPERRRGEERRRRS!

Mephiston > kharn.

Nah. Fluffwise Kharn is an inhuman wrecking machine millenia old with uncountable experience.

Crunch wise, yeah, Mephisto wins, but he is about 1/10th as cool.

kharn>bacon. that's right, I went there.