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The Dollmaker is a very creepy bad guy. He was even a bad guy last year on Arrow.

New episode was good. Hope they keep up the good work.

I still like grumpy Alfred the best. Like when he got all pissy and yelled at bruce for sneaking up on people all the time.

Yeah. Episode 2 was definitely good.

Not sure if I like grumpy Alfred. I normally see Alfred as a father figure, and a very loving one who doesn't yell or snap, but then again, he's a man past his prime with the responsibility of raising a young orphan on his own. That make just about anyone grumpy. Curious how Alfred will develop as the series goes on.

 LordofHats wrote:


Not sure if I like grumpy Alfred. I normally see Alfred as a father figure, and a very loving one who doesn't yell or snap, but then again, he's a man past his prime with the responsibility of raising a young orphan on his own. That make just about anyone grumpy. Curious how Alfred will develop as the series goes on.

I dunno, I see what you're saying in how you view Alfred, but I think that, given his back story there could be some cause for him to be "grumpy"

We generally know that he was a "spy" or secret agent, or black ops type of character, long before becoming a butler to the Wayne family. We know from various episodes throughout Batman the Animated Series, that eventually he tells Bruce about some of these experiences, as they are directly related to a problem the Bat is going through in that episode. This also occurs in The Dark Knight, when Michael Caine's "Alfred" warns Bruce about going after Joker because "some men just want to watch the world burn"


IIRC, I've seen somewhere that it was Alfred who began training Bruce in martial arts at some point (obviously this would be later on, much closer to when he takes on the mantle of batman), so the "cuddly" Alfred doesn't really make sense.

I was thinking of it as he starts out grumpy because he took the job as a butler never expecting to be a dad, but now he suddenly has to be, and he's way out of his comfort zone now and over time he'll eventually turn into the grandpa version.

 Necros wrote:
I was thinking of it as he starts out grumpy because he took the job as a butler never expecting to be a dad, but now he suddenly has to be, and he's way out of his comfort zone now and over time he'll eventually turn into the grandpa version.

That is true, and it doesn't take anything away from the "Super Spy" back story either

Not a fan so far. Also, when did Alfred become Australian?

Meh. Change is bad.

He's not Australian. He's English. That's what Sean Pertwee sounds like.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
He's not Australian. He's English. That's what Sean Pertwee sounds like.

You know, every time I see Sean's name, my mind initially paints it over with his father's name. Which can lead to amusing brain farts, like the one I have now... picturing Jon Pertwee playing Alfred in a gritty reboot of Batman.

squidhills wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
He's not Australian. He's English. That's what Sean Pertwee sounds like.

You know, every time I see Sean's name, my mind initially paints it over with his father's name. Which can lead to amusing brain farts, like the one I have now... picturing Jon Pertwee playing Alfred in a gritty reboot of Batman.

I actually had to IMDB him, to make sure... My memory is so fethed that I couldn't remember the Doctor's name.... and You are right, having Jon Pertwee playing Alfred would be amusing.

I finally caught up with Gotham. I was pleasantly surprised. It's definitely a different vibe than the CW shows, but it seems very high quality.

New episode tonight... With what's happened so far, and predictions??

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
With what's happened so far, and predictions??

Fish Mooney will say "Harvey" in that "I seem like I'm in a different show" kinda way, and she won't ever leave the club set she's been stuck in since the show's inception. Barbara will also stay within that clock-tower apartment, making us doubt if she really has a job. Selina Kyle will remind us again that her she wants to be called "Cat", because the writers just aren't sure they bashed us over the head enough times with the "SHE'S GOING TO BE CATWOMAN!" mallet. Alfred will have a sudden moodswing mid-sentence, either going from soft and kind to super-angry, or the other way around. Harvey Bullock will continue to be the most useless detective in a whole precinct of detectives who would fail at directing traffic, let alone catching bad guys. They'll have another gimmick-weapon villain of the week.

And all of them will be out acted by the kid playing Bruce and the guy playing Penguin, and, if he shows up, the guy playing Falcone.

I like the people playing penguine, bruce, and Gordon. I was mostly enjoying the show but forgot to record it and for some reason Fox hates Direct TV on demand so I'm basically out for the season since I'm not going to miss episodes while watching. Oh well, till Netflix.

Yes, I'm not sure I like the fact that Selina constantly wants to be called Cat. The show’s writers needs a guide in how to drop hints subtly as opposed to bashing us own the head with them.

Also I fear the show is falling in the trap of trying to juggle too many villains at once and too early. Better to introduce them gradually over the course of the seasons. Arrow is doing a much better Job in this regard. I’m liking what they are doing with Penguin though.

That’s not to say I’m not enjoying the show, I am. But now I fear it could still go very wrong.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
With what's happened so far, and predictions??

Fish Mooney will say "Harvey" in that "I seem like I'm in a different show" kinda way, and she won't ever leave the club set she's been stuck in since the show's inception. Barbara will also stay within that clock-tower apartment, making us doubt if she really has a job. Selina Kyle will remind us again that her she wants to be called "Cat", because the writers just aren't sure they bashed us over the head enough times with the "SHE'S GOING TO BE CATWOMAN!" mallet. Alfred will have a sudden moodswing mid-sentence, either going from soft and kind to super-angry, or the other way around. Harvey Bullock will continue to be the most useless detective in a whole precinct of detectives who would fail at directing traffic, let alone catching bad guys. They'll have another gimmick-weapon villain of the week.

And all of them will be out acted by the kid playing Bruce and the guy playing Penguin, and, if he shows up, the guy playing Falcone.

H.B.M.C there, succinctly summarising the reasons that I haven't bothered to watch Gotham past episode two.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
With what's happened so far, and predictions??

Fish Mooney will say "Harvey" in that "I seem like I'm in a different show" kinda way, and she won't ever leave the club set she's been stuck in since the show's inception. Barbara will also stay within that clock-tower apartment, making us doubt if she really has a job. Selina Kyle will remind us again that her she wants to be called "Cat", because the writers just aren't sure they bashed us over the head enough times with the "SHE'S GOING TO BE CATWOMAN!" mallet. Alfred will have a sudden moodswing mid-sentence, either going from soft and kind to super-angry, or the other way around. Harvey Bullock will continue to be the most useless detective in a whole precinct of detectives who would fail at directing traffic, let alone catching bad guys. They'll have another gimmick-weapon villain of the week.

And all of them will be out acted by the kid playing Bruce and the guy playing Penguin, and, if he shows up, the guy playing Falcone.

You nailed it.

Maybe salt in a few references to actors ACTING and it would be perfect!

I'm still watching it, even though I'm not 100% sure why...

 LuciusAR wrote:
Yes, I'm not sure I like the fact that Selina constantly wants to be called Cat. The show’s writers needs a guide in how to drop hints subtly as opposed to bashing us own the head with them.

Also I fear the show is falling in the trap of trying to juggle too many villains at once and too early. Better to introduce them gradually over the course of the seasons. Arrow is doing a much better Job in this regard. I’m liking what they are doing with Penguin though.

I honestly think that they're handling the "introduction" of the future supervillains pretty well. I mean, Thus far, aside from Ms. Kyle, and Cobblepot, we've only had a couple brief glimpses of other villains. Although, in the previous episode, the little girl who was taking care of plants, and was called Ivy (obviously who becomes Poison Ivy), I thought the comic version of her's real name was Pamela Isley, or something like that



Beyond that, I think that the show is handling the "main" villains quite well. They are setting up a "mob war" between Falcone and Marone (or however his name is spelled), and I think it's fleshing out quite well, with the "little" blunt force trauma "hints" that Cobblepot is orchestrating/setting up the whole thing.

I do agree that Harvey is a bit... inept. I mean, he is extremely useless, except as a "bad cop" movie trope, and then 3/4ths of the way through the episode, he says something snarky/useless that turns out to be not useless for Jim.... It's getting about how writers had been treating the Sonic Screwdriver in the 10/11th Doctor's tenures, IMO.

I like the show so far. I mean its nothing amazing but I do like the way they are portraying Gotham City.

I like The Penguins character and the actor does a good job with the character.
If I were to compare it to Agents of Shield I much prefer this show. I dislike Shield.

I have to say that as someone who doesn't know much about the Batman/DC universe, and who didn't think much of most of the Batman movies (I thought that the Dark Knight Rising was flipping godawful).....I'm quite enjoying Gotham.

It's not perfect, but I'm confident it'll mature over time.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Harvey Bullock will continue to be the most useless detective in a whole precinct of detectives who would fail at directing traffic, let alone catching bad guys.

Isn't that a good thing? I mean, I'm not exactly up on Batman lore, but surely one of the key factors in the continuing need for Batman is that the GCPD - with a few exceptions - couldn't organise an orgy in a Turkish brothel?

And all of them will be out acted by the kid playing Bruce and the guy playing Penguin, and, if he shows up, the guy playing Falcone.

Falcone has been in both episodes so far, played by John Domas. He was pretty good in The Wire, which was a fantastic series. Although the guy playing the Penguin also seems pretty decent so far.

We just aired episode 2 in the UK and the thing that gets me, is that they can't really decide on a tone.

One minute its 13 year old girl clawing someone's eyes out, literally, in a mess of blood and gore. The next, its Chitty Chitty Bang bang.

The direction is really messy too. One moment you have a great shot of Gotham brought to life. The next you have the really cheesy Blair witch style camera angleof under someone's nose while they run away.

The show just feels all over the place, whereascArrow manages a consistent tone throughout. YMMV on whether you like that tone or not.

This most recent episode was good. I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. And hey, Fish left the club for half a second. It's still not great, but it has elements that are good: Bruce and Alfred's relationship takes a nice turn this episode, Robin Lord Taylor continues to play Penguin very well, I think that Maroni being a more scrappy working-class mob-boss makes a very nice contrast to the extremely upper-class criminal of Falcone. And the show has the look of Gotham down - that part of the show is perfect - but there are other elements that just don't work. On the bright side, the most recent episode introduced us to the concept of Venom, and also gave us more "season plot arc" stuff with potential corruption in Wayne Enterprises, which is a good trend if they stick with it.

Fish's plans are still cooky, but whatever.

 Inquisitor Gonzo wrote:
Isn't that a good thing? I mean, I'm not exactly up on Batman lore, but surely one of the key factors in the continuing need for Batman is that the GCPD - with a few exceptions - couldn't organise an orgy in a Turkish brothel?

They were corrupt, not incompetent.

 Inquisitor Gonzo wrote:
Falcone has been in both episodes so far, played by John Domas. He was pretty good in The Wire, which was a fantastic series. Although the guy playing the Penguin also seems pretty decent so far.

Well, there have been 5 episodes so far, not two. I know who he played in The Wire (and on Person of Interest).

@ HBMC - We're only on episode 2 in the UK

...which I thought was considerably better than the first. Selina Kyle stopped crawling around on all fours and got to say a few lines, but I couldn't wrap my head around the idea that she would claw someone's eyes out. She's only about 13 and doesn't otherwise appear to have a violent streak.

Aside from the stupid penguin references, the best thing in the show is Copplepot's story so far. The actor playing him is doing fine work.

I'm still enjoying it.. but fish is starting to bug me. I think it's mostly the whole "Mrs. Pinket Smith refuses to travel to whatever cheap place we're filming in, so we gotta do all her stuff in 1 location" thing.

 Necros wrote:
I'm still enjoying it.. but fish is starting to bug me. I think it's mostly the whole "Mrs. Pinket Smith refuses to travel to whatever cheap place we're filming in, so we gotta do all her stuff in 1 location" thing.

My guess is that before we get to season's end, Ms. Fish will be dining with her own kind* in the bay






*as in, "She'll be sleeping with the fishes" not a race thing

So, watched the newest episode last night, and here's my prediction for next week:





quite the dramatic ending (I won't spoil it for those who haven't watched it.


In slightly unrelated terms, I have a gut feeling I know what is going to cause Edward to turn to a life of crime....

We just had Episode 3 here (Balloonman) and yeah, I'm just not sure about the tone of the show at all.

One moment it's cheesy, like super cheesy, verging on Adam West cheesy. The next, it's almost got this sort of disturbing slightly gleeful violence that makes me a bit uncomfortable actually. - Despite it being nowhere near Walking Dead / GoT etc.

 Compel wrote:
We just had Episode 3 here (Balloonman) and yeah, I'm just not sure about the tone of the show at all.

Im probably a bit biased, as I do really like the show, but IIRC, Balloonman wasn't the greatest episode, regardless of what show it was on.... Give it a bit more, but keep in mind, when you say it has a gleeful enjoyment of violence... that's kind of the point. Gotham is a city about to rip its own throat out with crime, and, by the time "little Wayne" is about to put on the pointy ears and cape, the city is a place where crime is extremely rampant, crazies like Joker, Riddler and such are, not quite common place, but no one really bats an eye when a new costumed d-bag shows up creating havoc.


This line of thought gave me another one

But that's sort of the thing I'm having issues with.

It's not that the characters enjoy violence, is the thing that giving me that twinge. - Compare with, say, Joffrey in GoT, or The Hunters in The Walking Dead. Or, say, a scene in the Soprano's.

It's more, "hey, look how funny this is, the guys beating up this bloke with a trophy he calls Sergeant Daniel that's utterly hilarious."

 Compel wrote:
But that's sort of the thing I'm having issues with.

It's not that the characters enjoy violence, is the thing that giving me that twinge. - Compare with, say, Joffrey in GoT, or The Hunters in The Walking Dead. Or, say, a scene in the Soprano's.

It's more, "hey, look how funny this is, the guys beating up this bloke with a trophy he calls Sergeant Daniel that's utterly hilarious."

But... But... Jim Gordon


I get what you're saying... But if you keep watching the show, I think it's definitely gone away from "look how funny cops hurting people can be" to "look how sick and twisted this city is, it's no wonder a Caped Crusader shows up"

I don't know much about this past weeks' bad guy, but I suspect that it was geared towards nodding at another character/villain from the Batman time period, and it's definitely less systemic violence and pointing towards the select, sick, few.