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Anyone watch last night?

I liked it, but I'm kinda wondering if it will last. It's cool that it takes place in gotham, but other than that it looks like it's gonna be just another cop show. I liked what they did there with the grumpy Alfred though.

What did ya think?

I hope it lasts. We're never going to get a Law & Order: Gotham City, where we focus on the GCPD and the Gotham District Attorney's office, and where Batman is a tertiary character that pops up a few times a season, so this is as close as it gets.

Not heard of it yet. Is it a show that actually takes place in Gotham City aka Batman universe? Does it focus on the other characters?

 Sigvatr wrote:
Not heard of it yet. Is it a show that actually takes place in Gotham City aka Batman universe? Does it focus on the other characters?

It's supposed to be Batman without Batman.

It's like a cop show about Commissioner Gordon, when he was a new detective, and it's got all of the classic Batman characters before they were heroes/villains.

And Bruce Wayne is 15, so there's not Batman yet. It's an ambitious take on the whole mythos, but there's a fear that won't ever escape the fact that, as squidhills said, it's a Batman show without Batman.

I spoke with a couple of co-workers, and they both thought it was pretty neat. I heard that it's going to be on Hulu, so I'll check it out tonight.

It is on Hulu.

Not bad for a start, but not quite the same punch I like. Still, it could pick up. We'll see.

If we know Fox, at the end of this season they'll get cold feet and cancel it, just like they did with Almost Human, Firefly, and IIRC Brooklyn 99 (and should have done with Sleepy Hollow)

I have it recorded at home, and will be watching it tonight if I can pry the kids off the TV with a Crowbar.. else I will be watching it Thursday I guess..

No sign of it coming to the UK yet as far as I know :(

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
and IIRC Brooklyn 99

The new season of Brooklyn 99 starts this upcoming Sunday.

I'm not sure how to feel about Gotham yet, tbh. It seems to have the ingredients to do something interesting but not sure if it will follow through. Donal Logue is a good Harvey Bullock, though.

 porkuslime wrote:
I have it recorded at home, and will be watching it tonight if I can pry the kids off the TV with a Crowbar.. else I will be watching it Thursday I guess..

Now, now...it's a Batman show, so you're supposed to hit them with the crowbar, Joker/Jason Todd style. Also, don't tell your wife I said that, or else she may use said crowbar on my head next time I actually make it out to visit you guys!!

I enjoyed it. I'm curious where they will go with it for sure.

I am a bit worried that dramatic tension will be difficult to maintain given we know so many characters not only survive this era but what they become etc.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
If we know Fox, at the end of this season they'll get cold feet and cancel it, just like they did with Almost Human, Firefly, and IIRC Brooklyn 99 (and should have done with Sleepy Hollow)

Don't forget that they'll air the episodes out of order as well.

I enjoyed the pilot, though I hope they include other baddies in the show besides the main Batman super villains and keep the focus on Jim Gordon and the Gcpd.

The Batman villains either don't exist yet or nascent, so I don't think they will be the ones causing to much trouble for the most part. It will most likely be characters like Mooney and Falcone and how their actions, along with the GCPDs, lead to the Gotham of Batman, including his rogues gallery.

And that's the way it really should be. The Gotham crime families were a big deal until the concept of "super villains" showed up and ran most of 'em out of town. They couldn't compete.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And that's the way it really should be. The Gotham crime families were a big deal until the concept of "super villains" showed up and ran most of 'em out of town. They couldn't compete.

But at the same time, the Falcone organization is STILL the big name in "organized crime" in Gotham, even after Batman sort of takes over. Which is something I've never understood really... How would an organization like the Falcones, without super powers/abilities be able to really survive in an environment where guys like Joker, Penguin and other "gang leader" type supervillains are so prevalent. About the only thing I can think of, is due to the nature of Bats' story, and how so many of the big names continually get put into Arkham (and then escape) the Falcones survive by being just enough under the radar that they are filthy rich, still criminal, but sort of plug holes that the Supers leave, until such a time as they "need" them again.

They stay in business because they're not insane. They're not planning to poison Gotham's water system (because that'd bad for business) or mutate all of Gotham's fish (because that'd be bad for business), or make a spectacle of the city's government by killing the mayor and DA (because that'd be bad for business), or threaten to blow up buildings unless someone can solve their riddles (because that'd be bad for business). Organised crime didn't get to where it is today by boldly stating to their respective cities that they're going to rob/steal/blow up/kill a bunch of stuff/people uness XYZ conditions are met.

Falcone was right. They're businessmen. They're still criminals, but they're not batgak crazy.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Falcone was right. They're businessmen. They're still criminals, but they're not batgak crazy.

Finally got to watch the episode tonight, and I fairly well liked it.... I think this sentiment from Falcone could really set the tone... Although, Gordon's actions and the "coming soon" scene really could (obviously do) have some far reaching ramifications


The one thing that did somewhat bug me was that, I kind of got the feeling in many of the comics that Batman's main enemies should be much closer in age to him, with a few exceptions.... I mean, Penguin being "much" older is no issue, Catwoman being "older, but not too old to say no to a shag" is alright as well... but I always just felt that Joker (who hasn't, AFAIK, been introduced) and Riddler were much closer in age to Bruce. Two-Face I can see being a tiny bit older, but not by much. I mean, obviously even a "hot shot, quick climbing lawyer" still has to get through law school in order to become a lawyer in the first place



Also... in the meat plant.... who was the dude in the mask?? Surely he can't be some crazy, bizarre, pre-Bats "Bane" can he?? Also:




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And that's the way it really should be. The Gotham crime families were a big deal until the concept of "super villains" showed up and ran most of 'em out of town. They couldn't compete.

If I had my guess, by the end of the entire series, Ms. Fish will probably be made "redundant" by way of a "corporate restructuring", if you know what I mean

Quite enjoyable and promising. I'm hoping for more characters, I can see the focus on Gordon and his partner going stale after a while. I admit, the lack of crowbar was a bit disappointing.

I'm hoping Konstantine will deliver the same quality.

Posted this to facebook just now: Wasn't massively impressed by Gotham, sadly. The acting and dialogue was fairly ropy in places and I'm not sure if they'll be able to get away with that given the current wealth of excellently written and acted TV shows. There were some highlights though: I thought Benjamin Mackenzie was good, though he seemed to be struggling manfully against a script that was so... Obvious. The scenes with Barbara were particularly poor. The 'Oswald Cobblepot' character was great, well acted, and I enjoyed the foreshadowing; see also: Edward Nigma and 'Un-named Stand-up comedian at audition'.

I'll keep watching, but I hope it gets better.

I actually thought Cobblepot was terrible XD

Flaw #1; You're the only one who saw your boss give someone the pearls. How was she not going to figure out Cobblepot was ratting on her to the cops? Obviously she did find out, but even if it didn't come out till later, if you're the only one who knows, of course she's going to know it was you.

What's the end game here genius? No wonder Batman always beats you

 Albatross wrote:
'Un-named Stand-up comedian at audition'.

I'll keep watching, but I hope it gets better.

I sincerely hope that he doesn't become the Joker.... Unless of course, they make him into the Red Hood or some other B rated villain first (which, Red Hood would probably work since in that story line, he doesn't really fight Bats until the night he falls into the acid)

That could be an interesting massive tease going throughout the entire run of the show.

Have a number of minor characters and bit players that could be The Joker. Perhaps even have one or two of them wear 'The Red Hood' in the later seasons.

Then, if you were to introduce The Joker into the very last episode, for example... Leave the real source of him up to being any of the others previously hinted at...

It'd fit The Joker perfectly.

 Compel wrote:
That could be an interesting massive tease going throughout the entire run of the show.

Have a number of minor characters and bit players that could be The Joker. Perhaps even have one or two of them wear 'The Red Hood' in the later seasons.

Then, if you were to introduce The Joker into the very last episode, for example... Leave the real source of him up to being any of the others previously hinted at...

It'd fit The Joker perfectly.

Yeah, I'd love that. Sadly, they seem to be going all out with the expostion of the big villains. I kind of would have preferred it if they'd drip-fed them in more.

Judging a pilot is actually very simple. There's only one question: Do you want to watch another episode?

But let's make it complicated for the sake of argument. Aside from some brilliant casting choices (Bullock, Penguin, importantly Gordon, maybe Montoya, great cameo by Richard Kind), I didn't see any A+ material taking things piecemeal. The cast were clearly acting, or should I say ACTING, as hard as they ever have. The lines were just a shade shy of cliche at best, although that's generous. And the whole thing is shot like a sophomoric homage to David Fincher.

It all strikes me as amateurish but ambitious, punching above its weight but (because?) every swing is sincere. In other words, it feels authentically like a comic book. More specifically, it feels authentically like the current, post "dark age" era of comic books, where the creators grew up as fan(atic)s and bring that credulity to the work whether or not they really have the talent or skill to totally pull it off.

Just take a look at Gotham itself: it's as real as it is unreal, simultaneously bleak and colorful, grimy and majestic ... and sometimes plain hokey in the case of Barbara Kean's bizarre apartment. This is certainly what a suburban comic book nerd thinks the big city is all about. I mean, gangsters killing people in a meat locker while dressed in nightclub attire? I'm not saying it never happens in real life but it definitely does happen in comic books.

And let's face it, our present era of comics is first and foremost concerned with character studies. Adventure, mystery, fable -- they only exist in contemporary comics as satellites orbiting the title's star. Super heroes (or super gods per Grant Morrison) have ascended to mythopoeic status. We are drawn to them as self-justifying fictional beings whose reality is stable enough to survive and even thrive in translation (as Zeus is Jupiter in Rome), which only makes them more more compelling to a reboot culture endlessly fascinated by (re)interpretation. New 52. Marvel Now. Everything is different, everything is the same, sales are up.

That's why this show exists. Character study is the key, which is probably why the casting is so polished. For example, think about how much we see of Selena Kyle despite her not having a single line. She may be effectively mute but we end up knowing, or at least strong suspecting, a lot about her character. I can't help but wonder, will she grow up to be Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman or Anne Hathaway's? Will David Mazouz's Bruce Wayne grow up to be Denny O'Neill and Neal Adams's Batman? Or Frank Miller's? Scott Snyder's? What is the line connecting the sniveling, animalistic Penguin and the almost-suave owner of the Iceberg Lounge?

This is the kind of stuff that I think about anyway. As you can see, this pilot is just more grist for the mill. It fits right in to what I love about comic books. Which makes answering the one actually relevant question posed by any pilot easy for me.

 Compel wrote:
That could be an interesting massive tease going throughout the entire run of the show.

Have a number of minor characters and bit players that could be The Joker. Perhaps even have one or two of them wear 'The Red Hood' in the later seasons.

That's what they're doing. The writers have said that they're going to introduce characters throughout the season who could be the Joker, so that you're always guessing. Not every episode, but a few here and there.

So after this week's episode, I am much more intrigued, and have more questions...




Also, wasn't there a supervillain in Batman who's real name was Lazlo? If so, did we see him in tonights episode?