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There is some distinctly anti-science beliefs from the Middle East, not based on evidence but apparently rooted in defiance of anything western. I read an article describing how Iran and others deny that the moon landing ever happened, the evidence doesn't matter to the people in power, if the west claims it as an achievement then they must say otherwise. I was skeptical how far this actually convinced their populations but in a class recently when the question was put to them, the half a dozen that did not agree were boys from middle Eastern countries.

Counties in the east were a great source of science thousands of years ago, they had mathematicians, scientists snd scholars. But there's no pride in any of these values because it doesn't suit the interests of clerics, religious leaders and those in power. That's why they don't believe in education or free expression and thought.

There's still a lot of Americans who claim the Moon landing never happened. It's not just a Middle East thing.

Religious extremism often has an anti-science/anti-intellectual angle to it... Islam isn't alone in that, we have plenty of Christian fundamentalists here in the US making similar statements, apparently now including a group who believes that dinosaurs were never real.

 Psienesis wrote:
There's still a lot of Americans who claim the Moon landing never happened. It's not just a Middle East thing.

Religious extremism often has an anti-science/anti-intellectual angle to it... Islam isn't alone in that, we have plenty of Christian fundamentalists here in the US making similar statements, apparently now including a group who believes that dinosaurs were never real.

Hell, that's nothing new (sadly). Bill Hicks was making jokes at their expense in the early 90's. NSFW, and possibly offensive to some...

 Psienesis wrote:
There's still a lot of Americans who claim the Moon landing never happened. It's not just a Middle East thing.

Religious extremism often has an anti-science/anti-intellectual angle to it... Islam isn't alone in that, we have plenty of Christian fundamentalists here in the US making similar statements, apparently now including a group who believes that dinosaurs were never real.

The denial is not state endorsed though. Evolution, for example, is doubted in spite of state education rather than because of it.

david choe wrote:
Is it just my computer or the guy is speaking in arabic.... so how can any of you guys know he is talking about the earth?

Oh it is a joke right?

If you run some of the comments, from the video thru a translator.
You get to realize
A what he's talking about.
B his fellow arabic speaking posters think he's an idiot.

 TseGuevara wrote:

 marv335 wrote:
I train Royal Saudi Air Force personnel out in KSA.
One of the flight training navigation manuals states "For the purposes of this training exercise we will assume the earth is round"

Well, tecnically it's legitimate, cause earth not spherical, it's more of an ellipsoid.

Listen she might be a little wide around the middle, but there's no need to be insulting.

david choe wrote:

Listen she might be a little wide around the middle, but there's no need to be insulting.

It's not about insulting Terra, it about insulting stupid soldaten ( ) who can not comprehend a slight difference in translating latitude and longitude to distance, and instead have to use spherical coordinates

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
There's still a lot of Americans who claim the Moon landing never happened. It's not just a Middle East thing.

Religious extremism often has an anti-science/anti-intellectual angle to it... Islam isn't alone in that, we have plenty of Christian fundamentalists here in the US making similar statements, apparently now including a group who believes that dinosaurs were never real.

The denial is not state endorsed though. Evolution, for example, is doubted in spite of state education rather than because of it.

That's because we live in a liberal democracy... but don't doubt that, should certain members of certain political parties in the US come to power, as is happening right now, today, in Tennessee, that science will be tossed out in favor of theocratic beliefs.

 TseGuevara wrote:

david choe wrote:

Listen she might be a little wide around the middle, but there's no need to be insulting.

It's not about insulting Terra, it about insulting stupid soldaten ( ) who can not comprehend a slight difference in translating latitude and longitude to distance, and instead have to use spherical coordinates

What did soldaten, ever do to you.?

 Smacks wrote:
The irony is, he uses a plane in his example. Which would imply that he might have been on a plane, and noticed how his coffee did not suddenly flit to the rear at 400 mph. Could it be that the same forces that make coffee appear stationary while on a fast moving plane, also make planes appear stationary on a fast moving Earth? For a plane to remain truly "still" relative to the Earth, as he suggests, and wait for China to come to it, the plane would need to burn huge amounts of fuel in order to overcome that initial inertia and slow down (to say nothing of the atmosphere).

Interestingly, scientist have used the cosmic background radiation to measure the speed of The Earth, going around The Sun, going around The Galaxy, flying through The Universe. The CBR is about the closest thing we have to a fixed point, and our actual speed is about 1.3 million miles per hour.

Everyone get some red spray paint and spray the oceans, because we all know
Red Earthz go FASTA!



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
There's still a lot of Americans who claim the Moon landing never happened. It's not just a Middle East thing.

Religious extremism often has an anti-science/anti-intellectual angle to it... Islam isn't alone in that, we have plenty of Christian fundamentalists here in the US making similar statements, apparently now including a group who believes that dinosaurs were never real.

We know they were real. Its right there in the Bible. Frazzled 2.17: "And Sweet Baby Jebus did travel far across the land with his pet Utahraptors Alpha, Charlie, and Echo.
And the Angel of Light did appear to Sweet baby Jebus and tempt him with ice cream. But Sweet Baby jebus would hear none of it, and did smote Lucifer with his Ruger Blackhawk .44, and verily. "

Here endeth the Lesson.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
The denial is not state endorsed though. Evolution, for example, is doubted in spite of state education rather than because of it.

It is Saudi Arabia. The total nutcases are in power, and the U.S. helped them get here and still helps them stay there. So what would you expect?

Actually the British helped them get there. Has no one watched Lawrence of Arabia in the last 50 years?

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
There is some distinctly anti-science beliefs from the Middle East, not based on evidence but apparently rooted in defiance of anything western.

It also goes beyond that as well. 9/10 I bet you that the cleric in the OP is a Wahabi. While Wahabism in itself isn't anti-intellectua per se, a common by product of the doctrine is a profound distrust and ignorance of anything remotely academic (except for religion).

This is a big problem in Saudi Arabia, as Wahabism is the state religion for all intents and purposes.

We've done some really stupid stuff to the world (Isreal, Afghanistan, India, etc).
But, while the Middle East is making odd claims and butchering everyone they feel like, we get a bit of leeway.
To our credit though, a lot of the ME's leaders (Saudi's royals?) were educated here, but that hardly matters to some of them.

 LordofHats wrote:

This is a big problem in Saudi Arabia, as Wahabism is the state religion for all intents and purposes.

Speak for yourself. I think it's delicious on sushi no matter what you say.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
There is some distinctly anti-science beliefs from the Middle East, not based on evidence but apparently rooted in defiance of anything western. I read an article describing how Iran and others deny that the moon landing ever happened, the evidence doesn't matter to the people in power, if the west claims it as an achievement then they must say otherwise. I was skeptical how far this actually convinced their populations but in a class recently when the question was put to them, the half a dozen that did not agree were boys from middle Eastern countries..

I've encountered some similar views here and there.


Reminds one of :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welteislehre

You know, compare his earth idea, to the statements recently made by State Senator Tom Corbin, Tell me this guy wouldn't fit in with the republican party. He could probably be on the science committee with the other creationists.

and for some fun contrast:
http://news.discovery.com/space/astronomy/1-in-4-americans-dont-know-earth-orbits-the-sun-yes-really-140214.htm

 jreilly89 wrote:
Oh, did we step back into the Medieval Ages? Thank God I'm white

There was a great standup bit about this - I think Louis CK - about how one of the benefits of being white - white privilege, as it were; is free access to enjoying time travel, whereas a black guy is going to be like "um.... No, nothing really before 1970 or so, thanks."

None of us would really want to go back in time actually. Its awfully dirty and stinky and diseasy.
Plus...comanches with horses and guns.
No thanks!

 Psienesis wrote:
but don't doubt that, should certain members of certain political parties in the US come to power, as is happening right now, today, in Tennessee, that science will be tossed out in favor of theocratic beliefs.

If he repeated the exact same stuff he said in that video, but replaced "allah" with "jesus", and indicated a distaste for the EPA, he'd probably be the current GOP frontrunner.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
There is some distinctly anti-science beliefs from the Middle East, not based on evidence but apparently rooted in defiance of anything western.

It is not just the Middle East. I have read that the leader of Boko Haram in Africa also claims The Earth is flat, largely in defiance of western teachings. What I find most disturbing about this stuff is that, unlike evolution which happens very slowly, the motion of the stars an planets is something you can observe yourself. The observations of scientists can be empirically tested with little more than a sextant and some determination. This is made super easy with the assistance of stargazing apps. The fact that smart phones with sat-nav even exists should be evidence enough that the person who put the satellites there knows their gak.

I'm reminded of the (apocryphal) anecdote about Aristotle. His statement that flies have four legs was repeated in natural history texts for more than a thousand years, despite the fact that a little counting would have proven otherwise. Why take people's word when you can just check yourself?

Counties in the east were a great source of science thousands of years ago, they had mathematicians, scientists snd scholars. But there's no pride in any of these values because it doesn't suit the interests of clerics, religious leaders and those in power. That's why they don't believe in education or free expression and thought.

I think that door swings both ways. Are people made ignorant by the power of religious leaders, or are religious leaders made powerful by people's ignorance. I remember as a child (about 11) plotting the positions of nearby stars onto a map, with nothing but a protractor and a book by Patrick Moore that listed their declination and hour angle. Granted, I did have a book, but it wasn't part of my education, and certainly not something my parents were interested in, I just wanted to know for myself. When I look back at ancient people, I'm constantly in awe of what they were able to achieve with so little. Even the simple neolithic people that built Stonehenge had the mental capacity to make calenders and accurately predict the solstice. When I look at modern people I'm constantly amazed by how dumb they are. Most people I meet, even in the UK, don't know anything, and they're not interested in knowing anything. They stare all day at TVs, phones and computers, and it never occurs to them to find out how those things work, even though the answer is literally a click away. They don't know the words for trees or flowers, or understand why spiders aren't insects. When I moved house I had to endure a mandatory lecture by the estate agent about how mould spreads because it is a "kind of bacteria". I corrected him that mould is caused by fungus, but my words were just met with a dumb expression and went straight over his head. The real tragedy is not that people are stupid, but that not-stupid people can't get a safer distance away from them all.

 Smacks wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
There is some distinctly anti-science beliefs from the Middle East, not based on evidence but apparently rooted in defiance of anything western.

It is not just the Middle East. I have read that the leader of Boko Haram in Africa also claims The Earth is flat, largely in defiance of western teachings.

The biggest irony being that the entire Western education system is arguably built on the Arabic scholars of the middle ages. Even if western education were to be forbidden, as they want, they'd still have to deal with the fact that their own great scientists came to the same conclusion as those of the "decadent West".

 Smacks wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
There is some distinctly anti-science beliefs from the Middle East, not based on evidence but apparently rooted in defiance of anything western.

It is not just the Middle East. I have read that the leader of Boko Haram in Africa also claims The Earth is flat, largely in defiance of western teachings. What I find most disturbing about this stuff is that, unlike evolution which happens very slowly, the motion of the stars an planets is something you can observe yourself. The observations of scientists can be empirically tested with little more than a sextant and some determination. This is made super easy with the assistance of stargazing apps. The fact that smart phones with sat-nav even exists should be evidence enough that the person who put the satellites there knows their gak.

I'm reminded of the (apocryphal) anecdote about Aristotle. His statement that flies have four legs was repeated in natural history texts for more than a thousand years, despite the fact that a little counting would have proven otherwise. Why take people's word when you can just check yourself?

Counties in the east were a great source of science thousands of years ago, they had mathematicians, scientists snd scholars. But there's no pride in any of these values because it doesn't suit the interests of clerics, religious leaders and those in power. That's why they don't believe in education or free expression and thought.

I think that door swings both ways. Are people made ignorant by the power of religious leaders, or are religious leaders made powerful by people's ignorance. I remember as a child (about 11) plotting the positions of nearby stars onto a map, with nothing but a protractor and a book by Patrick Moore that listed their declination and hour angle. Granted, I did have a book, but it wasn't part of my education, and certainly not something my parents were interested in, I just wanted to know for myself. When I look back at ancient people, I'm constantly in awe of what they were able to achieve with so little. Even the simple neolithic people that built Stonehenge had the mental capacity to make calenders and accurately predict the solstice. When I look at modern people I'm constantly amazed by how dumb they are. Most people I meet, even in the UK, don't know anything, and they're not interested in knowing anything. They stare all day at TVs, phones and computers, and it never occurs to them to find out how those things work, even though the answer is literally a click away. They don't know the words for trees or flowers, or understand why spiders aren't insects. When I moved house I had to endure a mandatory lecture by the estate agent about how mould spreads because it is a "kind of bacteria". I corrected him that mould is caused by fungus, but my words were just met with a dumb expression and went straight over his head. The real tragedy is not that people are stupid, but that not-stupid people can't get a safer distance away from them all.

The Chinese discover the earth was round before the west by a few 100s years.

You think the Middle East is anti western knowledge...lol, the west is just as ignorance with the discovery of truth.

david choe wrote:

 Smacks wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
There is some distinctly anti-science beliefs from the Middle East, not based on evidence but apparently rooted in defiance of anything western.

It is not just the Middle East. I have read that the leader of Boko Haram in Africa also claims The Earth is flat, largely in defiance of western teachings. What I find most disturbing about this stuff is that, unlike evolution which happens very slowly, the motion of the stars an planets is something you can observe yourself. The observations of scientists can be empirically tested with little more than a sextant and some determination. This is made super easy with the assistance of stargazing apps. The fact that smart phones with sat-nav even exists should be evidence enough that the person who put the satellites there knows their gak.

I'm reminded of the (apocryphal) anecdote about Aristotle. His statement that flies have four legs was repeated in natural history texts for more than a thousand years, despite the fact that a little counting would have proven otherwise. Why take people's word when you can just check yourself?

Counties in the east were a great source of science thousands of years ago, they had mathematicians, scientists snd scholars. But there's no pride in any of these values because it doesn't suit the interests of clerics, religious leaders and those in power. That's why they don't believe in education or free expression and thought.

I think that door swings both ways. Are people made ignorant by the power of religious leaders, or are religious leaders made powerful by people's ignorance. I remember as a child (about 11) plotting the positions of nearby stars onto a map, with nothing but a protractor and a book by Patrick Moore that listed their declination and hour angle. Granted, I did have a book, but it wasn't part of my education, and certainly not something my parents were interested in, I just wanted to know for myself. When I look back at ancient people, I'm constantly in awe of what they were able to achieve with so little. Even the simple neolithic people that built Stonehenge had the mental capacity to make calenders and accurately predict the solstice. When I look at modern people I'm constantly amazed by how dumb they are. Most people I meet, even in the UK, don't know anything, and they're not interested in knowing anything. They stare all day at TVs, phones and computers, and it never occurs to them to find out how those things work, even though the answer is literally a click away. They don't know the words for trees or flowers, or understand why spiders aren't insects. When I moved house I had to endure a mandatory lecture by the estate agent about how mould spreads because it is a "kind of bacteria". I corrected him that mould is caused by fungus, but my words were just met with a dumb expression and went straight over his head. The real tragedy is not that people are stupid, but that not-stupid people can't get a safer distance away from them all.

The Chinese discover the earth was round before the west by a few 100s years.

Source on that? Seeing as Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth in 240 BC, already knowing that the earth was round, we're talking so far back in time that records start becoming rather spotty.

david choe wrote:
You think the Middle East is anti western knowledge...lol, the west is just as ignorance with the discovery of truth.

Well, Saudi Arabia is very much anti everywhere knowledge.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

david choe wrote:

 Smacks wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
There is some distinctly anti-science beliefs from the Middle East, not based on evidence but apparently rooted in defiance of anything western.

It is not just the Middle East. I have read that the leader of Boko Haram in Africa also claims The Earth is flat, largely in defiance of western teachings. What I find most disturbing about this stuff is that, unlike evolution which happens very slowly, the motion of the stars an planets is something you can observe yourself. The observations of scientists can be empirically tested with little more than a sextant and some determination. This is made super easy with the assistance of stargazing apps. The fact that smart phones with sat-nav even exists should be evidence enough that the person who put the satellites there knows their gak.

I'm reminded of the (apocryphal) anecdote about Aristotle. His statement that flies have four legs was repeated in natural history texts for more than a thousand years, despite the fact that a little counting would have proven otherwise. Why take people's word when you can just check yourself?

Counties in the east were a great source of science thousands of years ago, they had mathematicians, scientists snd scholars. But there's no pride in any of these values because it doesn't suit the interests of clerics, religious leaders and those in power. That's why they don't believe in education or free expression and thought.

I think that door swings both ways. Are people made ignorant by the power of religious leaders, or are religious leaders made powerful by people's ignorance. I remember as a child (about 11) plotting the positions of nearby stars onto a map, with nothing but a protractor and a book by Patrick Moore that listed their declination and hour angle. Granted, I did have a book, but it wasn't part of my education, and certainly not something my parents were interested in, I just wanted to know for myself. When I look back at ancient people, I'm constantly in awe of what they were able to achieve with so little. Even the simple neolithic people that built Stonehenge had the mental capacity to make calenders and accurately predict the solstice. When I look at modern people I'm constantly amazed by how dumb they are. Most people I meet, even in the UK, don't know anything, and they're not interested in knowing anything. They stare all day at TVs, phones and computers, and it never occurs to them to find out how those things work, even though the answer is literally a click away. They don't know the words for trees or flowers, or understand why spiders aren't insects. When I moved house I had to endure a mandatory lecture by the estate agent about how mould spreads because it is a "kind of bacteria". I corrected him that mould is caused by fungus, but my words were just met with a dumb expression and went straight over his head. The real tragedy is not that people are stupid, but that not-stupid people can't get a safer distance away from them all.

The Chinese discover the earth was round before the west by a few 100s years.

Source on that? Seeing as Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth in 240 BC, already knowing that the earth was round, we're talking so far back in time that records start becoming rather spotty.

Let's don't make this a race. If Columbus people still think that you can fall off the earth, then the discovery is not public knowledge.

I do not know who was the first who discover the round earth theory.

All I know is that
Quran stated that the earth was round, 1,000 years before Columbus
The Chinese thought it was round as well, before 1500s.... I don't remember when.
I think Ancient Greek also had a round earth theory.


My point was that the west likes to give itself credits and dismiss other cultures that discover the same thing before them.

And I'm sure the Saudi clergy's statements on astrophysics have a dramatic and damaging effect on your daily life.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

david choe wrote:
Let's don't make this a race. If Columbus people still think that you can fall off the earth, then the discovery is not public knowledge.

I do not know who was the first who discover the round earth theory.

All I know is that
Quran stated that the earth was round, 1,000 years before Columbus
The Chinese thought it was round as well, before 1500s.... I don't remember when.
I think Ancient Greek also had a round earth theory.


My point was that the west likes to give itself credits and dismiss other cultures that discover the same thing before them.

Eratosthenes figured out that the Earth was round and measured its circumference to within fifteen percent of the actual value in 240 BC.

Western Europe and the US do love their "We did everything before all the unenlightened savages everywhere else in the world!" myths, don't they?

david choe wrote:
My point was that the west likes to give itself credits and dismiss other cultures that discover the same thing before them.

You are not very good at making your point.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
And I'm sure the Saudi clergy's statements on astrophysics have a dramatic and damaging effect on your daily life.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

david choe wrote:
Let's don't make this a race. If Columbus people still think that you can fall off the earth, then the discovery is not public knowledge.

I do not know who was the first who discover the round earth theory.

All I know is that
Quran stated that the earth was round, 1,000 years before Columbus
The Chinese thought it was round as well, before 1500s.... I don't remember when.
I think Ancient Greek also had a round earth theory.


My point was that the west likes to give itself credits and dismiss other cultures that discover the same thing before them.

Eratosthenes figured out that the Earth was round and measured its circumference to within fifteen percent of the actual value in 240 BC.

Western Europe and the US do love their "We did everything before all the unenlightened savages everywhere else in the world!" myths, don't they?

You can't be that blind and fall for this smear of the Saudi or Islam right? This is a propaganda to smear them. If the Quran already stated the round earth theory, then this idiot cleric is wrong and "solo" in this. Yet, this thread is full of Middle East rejecting facts discovered by the west. You ...turning this into a contest...lol

Either you actually fall for this propaganda or are using this as a propaganda for your ethnocentric ideology. I just see this as what it really is.... When the world saw that Duck dynasty show....we know that the show do not represent usa.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

david choe wrote:
My point was that the west likes to give itself credits and dismiss other cultures that discover the same thing before them.

You are not very good at making your point.

o

Not getting paid, so I didn't care too.

Wait now you're saying Duck Dynasty doesn't represent the USA? What kind of nonsense is this? Don't you feren devilz know anything. Don't you know everyone here has a two foot beard and shouts bible verses at random passers by?

pfft next you'll be telling me Texans don't have oil wells in our back yards.

david choe wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

david choe wrote:

 Smacks wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
There is some distinctly anti-science beliefs from the Middle East, not based on evidence but apparently rooted in defiance of anything western.

It is not just the Middle East. I have read that the leader of Boko Haram in Africa also claims The Earth is flat, largely in defiance of western teachings. What I find most disturbing about this stuff is that, unlike evolution which happens very slowly, the motion of the stars an planets is something you can observe yourself. The observations of scientists can be empirically tested with little more than a sextant and some determination. This is made super easy with the assistance of stargazing apps. The fact that smart phones with sat-nav even exists should be evidence enough that the person who put the satellites there knows their gak.

I'm reminded of the (apocryphal) anecdote about Aristotle. His statement that flies have four legs was repeated in natural history texts for more than a thousand years, despite the fact that a little counting would have proven otherwise. Why take people's word when you can just check yourself?

Counties in the east were a great source of science thousands of years ago, they had mathematicians, scientists snd scholars. But there's no pride in any of these values because it doesn't suit the interests of clerics, religious leaders and those in power. That's why they don't believe in education or free expression and thought.

I think that door swings both ways. Are people made ignorant by the power of religious leaders, or are religious leaders made powerful by people's ignorance. I remember as a child (about 11) plotting the positions of nearby stars onto a map, with nothing but a protractor and a book by Patrick Moore that listed their declination and hour angle. Granted, I did have a book, but it wasn't part of my education, and certainly not something my parents were interested in, I just wanted to know for myself. When I look back at ancient people, I'm constantly in awe of what they were able to achieve with so little. Even the simple neolithic people that built Stonehenge had the mental capacity to make calenders and accurately predict the solstice. When I look at modern people I'm constantly amazed by how dumb they are. Most people I meet, even in the UK, don't know anything, and they're not interested in knowing anything. They stare all day at TVs, phones and computers, and it never occurs to them to find out how those things work, even though the answer is literally a click away. They don't know the words for trees or flowers, or understand why spiders aren't insects. When I moved house I had to endure a mandatory lecture by the estate agent about how mould spreads because it is a "kind of bacteria". I corrected him that mould is caused by fungus, but my words were just met with a dumb expression and went straight over his head. The real tragedy is not that people are stupid, but that not-stupid people can't get a safer distance away from them all.

The Chinese discover the earth was round before the west by a few 100s years.

Source on that? Seeing as Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth in 240 BC, already knowing that the earth was round, we're talking so far back in time that records start becoming rather spotty.

Let's don't make this a race. If Columbus people still think that you can fall off the earth, then the discovery is not public knowledge.

You'd have a point if people actually thought that at the time. Their objection to Columbus's journey was that they felt he was underestimating the circumference of the Earth, based on, among other things, Eratosthenes's work, and they were RIGHT. So yeah, tell us all about dismissing people's achievements.