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Beyond the milky way, the rest of the universe is watching and tutting.
The Kasrkin were just men. It made their actions all the more astonishing. Six white blurs, they fell upon the cultists, lasguns barking at close range. They wasted no shots. One shot, one kill. - Eisenhorn: Malleus
Around most of the Eye of Terror's perimeter, aside from near Cadia, the warp currents mostly flow inward, drawing ships towards the eye. The Cadian Gate is the head of a uniquely powerful and stable warp current. The main branch spirals lazily outwards conterclockwise out of Segmentum Obscuras into Solar, Tempestus, Ultima, and finally becomes unnavigable in outer Obscuras. This makes Cadia a really good staging area. When the military tithes of nearby planets aren't needed locally they go to Cadia where they take advantage of its extensive training facilities, rearm with Cadian equipment if theirs is substandard, and await orders to ship out to active conflicts. And that's how Vostroyans end up fighting Tau on the Eastern Fringe.
At least that's half true. We all know the other half. The Imperium diverting troops for training at Cadia conveniently keeps a large number of extra troops there with a steady stream of reinforcements in case the real reason why Cadia is a fortress world ever comes up.
The eldar are space Amish and don't have technology past the midevil era. They still have things like micro thin blades it's just that they make them psychically or with massive skill and dedication.
Nid organisms aren't one mind, but many minds operating as a pack. I also like to forget the stuff like gun arms.
IG is a comically incompetent amy that solves problems by stuffing a lot of people at it. They are just more fun this way.
A SM chapter will only fight 1 or 2 serous campaigns before they are too depleted. It's basically my fix for problem of there not being enough SMs. They just don't fight as many battles as people think.
Tau are genuinely nice and it benefits them. Kind of just a call back to their old fluff. I just like the idea that they are a troll joke for the setting.
The IoM is not a nice place to live. Every world is ghastly and oppressive.
When the various legions started joining Horus, the Dark Angels were one of them. However, they took their time getting to Terra so no one really realized this. After Horus was defeated, the DA pretended to have been loyal all along and viciously began hunting "the fallen", aka the loyalist dark angels who would reveal the real story. As supporting evidence, only the traitor legions changed their armor color...DA changed theirs.
I can't claim credit for this one, but a friend of mine once postulated:
"The Orks are a latent psychic race, so much so that if they collectively believe things they come to be (such as red vehicles going faster, weapons working, etc). Orks also delight in battle, it is what they live for and their primary source of joy. And thus in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/08 01:50:36
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
greyknight12 wrote: "The Orks are a latent psychic race, so much so that if they collectively believe things they come to be (such as red vehicles going faster, weapons working, etc). Orks also delight in battle, it is what they live for and their primary source of joy. And thus in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war"
Aah, that's a good one! I can't believe I never thought of that one before!
Everyone uses helmets in combat. Even Commissars.
Guard uses drop pods.
All-out bullrush attacks are extreme rarity in Guard tactics.
Many chapters were based on traitor legion loyalists during 3rd/4th founding.
The political and religious situation the imperium finds itself in at the moment ensures that even the emperor could not fix its downward trend.
in my headcanon if the emperor were to reincarnate the imperium would tear itself apart in a massve internal conflict owing to different interpretations of the emperor and wether he truly is the emperor or not.
The flayer virus is a fault in the biotransfer process, wich means that the afflicted necrons cant handle their metal bodies and tries to get meaty ones in a more "creative" way.
The tau empire is actually a pretty nice place to be in. The ethereals influence comes from the stories of the mont'ka? that elevates them to saviours.
The main reason that the tau seem so bad is mostly because of their culture being so vastly different then our own.
Tau fire caste progression consists of increasingly high command ranks. The work that in a human army is done by staff officers falls within the purview of the water caste. LIttle things like administration, logistics, information management etc. Staff work is really important especially at higher levels to the point that the water caste basically runs operational planning. This frees up even high ranking fire caste commanders to go personally carry out stealth raids.
An unintended benefit of this system is that the Imperium hasn't figured out the the guys in the shiny battlesuits leading from the front aren't really all that important so they keep targetting them for assassination instead of the real masterminds.
Despite the Eldar being scattered into craftworlds, their total number is still quite large enough to rival the Imperium, but still a fraction of their former population.
Like the Phoenix Lords, named Tyranid characters are more akin to titles than individual beings. The hive mind will transform one of its Tyranids into a being similar to the likeness of one of these named characters.
Chapters are more like fiefs- *dodges thrown chair* ... in the Imperium, where the Emperor serves as king, chapter masters are similar to barons, and captains are like the knights. *Hides behind curtain before bolters start firing*
There will be no end times, and the wars will not end. The state of wars constantly changes, so one faction may take over a few planets of another faction, but ultimately, the entire affair is in stagnation, since all races will still be around. All races will adapt to another races improvements and it will continue and continue and continue.
Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!
Like the Phoenix Lords, named Tyranid characters are more akin to titles than individual beings. The hive mind will transform one of its Tyranids into a being similar to the likeness of one of these named characters.
I'm pretty sure this is exactly what they are isn't it? The Swarmlord definitely.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/08 19:58:41
I'm seriously digging some of the heresy being thrown around here!
I know that I have often had a similar thought to whoever said something like: "the whole 1,000 marines in a chapter thing is rubbish"
I'm thinking that maybe they have 1,000 "active" marines and another X out recruiting, another X as recruits/scouts, another X recovering from wounds ect ect. The total force being far far larger, but through clever book-keeping they stay within the letter of the law :-)
leerm02 wrote: I'm seriously digging some of the heresy being thrown around here!
I know that I have often had a similar thought to whoever said something like: "the whole 1,000 marines in a chapter thing is rubbish"
I'm thinking that maybe they have 1,000 "active" marines and another X out recruiting, another X as recruits/scouts, another X recovering from wounds ect ect. The total force being far far larger, but through clever book-keeping they stay within the letter of the law :-)
If you math it out even with a thousand Marines in the ten Companies plus the Armoury, command staff, the Honour Guard, the Librarium, the Recluisam, and the Fleet we're looking at 1,500-1,600 Marines per Chapter at nominal strength.
Astartes pattern Bolters are the most destructive standard infantry small arms in the galaxy. They pop any man sized target into a rain of chunky salsa and they can do serious damage to light vehicles. Astartes Bolters are more powerful than those carried by the Imperial Guard and the Adepta Sororitas.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/09 05:21:02
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
The dark angels are actually chaos worshippers. The great shame is a sham, the fallen know the truth and so does cypher.
All chapter masters secretly keep the Lion asleep because if he wakes, he will reveal their secret.
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
TheCustomLime wrote: Astartes pattern Bolters are the most destructive standard infantry small arms in the galaxy. They pop any man sized target into a rain of chunky salsa and they can do serious damage to light vehicles. Astartes Bolters are more powerful than those carried by the Imperial Guard and the Adepta Sororitas.
Agree.
Though, they lack the ability to effectively penetrate PA+ level armour, which means plasma guns are still relevant; although humans wearing PA die all the same as the kinetic energy of the impact breaks their bones and ruptures their organs.
The Emperor created the flaw in the gene - seed of the Thousand Sons intentionally as he knew that Magnus would not join him back on Terra should he still have a Legion to lead. What he didn't see was Magnus pact with Tzeentch.
The last of the Old Ones created the Tyranid to eradicate all species in the Universe. Once all life was consumed the Tyranid would eventually die out, leaving the universe bare of all life, a clean slate for the Old Ones to reseed and start again. Unfortunately the plan went wrong and the Tyranid ate the last Old One.
The Chaos Gods entered into a pact with the Emperor to create the Primarchs on the grounds that he would also create avatars for them, hence the 20 Primarchs and the similarities shared by some. When the Emperor reneged on his promise the Gods intervened trying to deny them all to the Emperor but placed them on to worlds they knew that would bring them to their sides.
The Emperor abducted Angron from De'shea to stop him fron becoming the Blood Prince. If he would have assisted Angron in the battle then he would have ascended.
The dreams of the Void Dragon seeped out on Mars which lead to the creation of the Iron Men. The Iron Men being created in the image of the Necron armies lead by the Void Dragon.
The Ultramarines are betting on the Imperium... but the realms of Ultramar are a way of hedging that bet. In the event that Terra is conquered or destroyed (along with the Astronomican), Ultramar will begin expanding to try to fill the resulting power vacuum, with the eventual goal of becoming the new IoM.
Lion El'Jonson was not a traitor per-se, but he was convinced that Horus was going to win. He took the prudent course of action to preserve his forces so that his legion could survive in a post-IoM galaxy (and maybe someday build up enough strength to defeat the forces of Chaos).
Luther's faction were loyalists who thought that the rest of the legion were secret traitors, and that Lion El'Jonson had pseudo-purged them by leaving them on Caliban. When the "traitors" returned to Caliban after the Heresy was over, Luther thought that they were returning to destroy them for good (sort of a Istvaan III type scenario), and so decided to attack first. The sense of distrust and paranoia among Luther's faction might have also allowed the corruption of chaos to seep in.
Terra's importance as an administrative center is highly overrated - the value they create is almost totally eclipsed by their bloat and incompetence. The Astronomican, Mars, the Ring of Iron, and the Jovian shipyards are what make the Sol system important.
Pilau Rice wrote: The Emperor created the flaw in the gene - seed of the Thousand Sons intentionally as he knew that Magnus would not join him back on Terra should he still have a Legion to lead. What he didn't see was Magnus pact with Tzeentch.
I like that one, and it fits with the Emp's cool calculation when it came to the managing the Primarchs (and Magnus especially, who he sometimes sort of treated like a lighthouse battery). It also explains why he didn't really care that he shafted the Thousand Sons legion at the Council of Nikaea - they would go extinct soon enough, so he didn't really care if it was unfair.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/09 16:13:56
The Old Gods grew bored of weeding out the Necrontyr/Necrons.
They were used to easily doing anything they decided to do. But finally stamping out these pests required they change their methods. And so, the winds of change began to coalasce in the Warp.
They built a disease to destroy them. The Immaterium was bent to the purpose of disease and decay. Papa Nurgle and his ilk were born, did substantial damage, but it wasn't enough.
They had to fight, if they wanted to wipe out the Necrons. Their wrath wrought a will of its own. Whole systems were laid to waste by the rage of Khorne.
The Old Gods controlled the Immaterium of course. And that should have never changed. But Change had become an entity all on its own. Tzeech was formed.
And for Tzeech, the game must be played. Victory or loss mattered not. Necron or Old One mattered not. A word here, a demonstration there. Eventually, Khorne was no longer bound to the Old Ones who had crafted it. Nor was Nurgle. And so the swords and bows of the Old Ones themselves turned on them. Against their very weapons, they had no defense. Old Ones had brought about the very beings to cause their doom.
By this point, however, the War in Heaven was all but decided. The Eldar, spearheaded by their Gods who walked the Materium, and the endless tide of the Koruk, were enough to win the war.
The Eldar were the perfect sword. Their stories guided their lives, and the Old Ones guided their stories.
The Koruk were designed like an immune response. A small presence when things are at peace. Ramps up to massive presences in the face of a formidable for. Scales appropriately.
Necrons retreated to hiding, and in their flight, came to blows with the Ctan themselves. They were able to defeat the Ctan, and win their independence, but at great cost. Most of the weapons of the War in Heaven were lost, and their numbers were brought low. Even if Eldar and Koruk warhosts weren't waiting in the wings, the Necrons were battered and nearly beaten. So Necrons went to sleep.
The Chaos Gods existed, but little in the galaxy fed them.
The Eldar were devoted to their gods. Their court drank all the Eldar bloodlust, fear of disease, and desire for change produced.
The Koruk seemed corruptable. Tzeech aided Nurgle in corrupting them, with the blood of Khorne. To turn them into an infectious blight of violence, ideally. But their love of violence had none of the hatred and vileness Khorne craved. And the blighted versions hadnt the understanding of change Tzeech needed. And they never saw the change as a disease or anything Nurgle-y. In fact, all they revered was cunning brutality, and brutal cunning (Gork and Mork eventually form from this).
So the Chaos gods play their games, and wait.
The Eldar, seeing the War in Heaven was over, but being driven to prepare, seek to engineer a lesser race into their perfect sword. They find some primitive apes in the Sol system, and guide their development, into the Eldar's progeny. And so comes Mankind, in Eldar's image.
Over time, however, the Eldar continue to struggle as a sword with no weilder and no enemy. No challenges. Nothing to do. They abandon their plans for mankind, and look inward.
With Mankind, the Gods of Chaos found new patrons. Relatively strong psykers, with no patron entities to fight for emotions. And the three Chaos gods drank heavily.
The Eldar, with nothing better to do, got drunk on excess and dark pleasures. While their Pantheon drank all other emotions, such dark pleasures - in this quantity - wasn't thought of when the Pantheon was designed.
EngulfedObject wrote: Emperor and that the Emperor will absolve him of his sins and ask him to slay him so he can be reborn. Maybe...
Sometimes I buff up marine numbers in my head so the setting makes sense. Or I imagine them like my marines in DoW II when they're already maxed out and destroying everything or where they quickly recover from being incapacitated.
I also significantly buff up numbers for all the warzones I read about. Especially Astra Militarum numbers. Millions are just entirely unimpressive in a galaxy-spanning setting where a single Hive World seems to outnumber the entire organization. We've had conflicts with millions here on Earth already.
Even though I'm a Dark Angels fan, I ignore ADB's depiction of them because I like them the way they're depicted in the actual novels (Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels), not his short stories. Even if they are badass, the unending "your grace," "my liege," and knight-lord this, knight that, thing ruins it for me. They're not Bretonnia in space! The Order was a meritocratic organization, even if there was the occasional "my lord" thrown in (the whole point was they got rid of the recruiting exclusively from nobles thing and it's mentioned that it's not "top-heavy formation." No room for liege-lord there, brother!). Hope this doesn't become established canon.
This. While Descent was awful, Fallen Angels I really liked. I liked the literary tools (Nemiel and Zahariel), the character portrayals etc.
The numbers do really irk me though. A planetary war (Vraks) didn't get anywhere near the death toll of the Great War.
Most of my head cannon comes regarding Space Wolves.
Logan's Stormrider has propulsion of its own, thus making it no more weird than a marine on a hover bike. The two wolves are just there to hang out and fight along side their master. If I ever paint up the model, this is how I will pose it.
Rune Priests are in fact not sorcerers or librarians in the traditional sense. While they do get their powers from the warp, they are harnessed in a different fashion, one not given to easy corruption. The oral traditions and all of the fetishes and protection runes give them extreme protection against the taint of chaos. This could be supported by the fact there there isn't a single instance of a rune priest turning traitor that I know of. Add to it that belief plays such a strong part of the Warp, maybe its these traditions, founded in belief, not raw knowledge, that give them their protection.
Barbarianism vs stratigic cunning - The SW only play at being barbarians. The planning of their attacks and defense is solid in form and function. Careful planning, advising, etc. come into play before the battle starts. However, once the gauntlet is thrown they make a show of being brutal, even more so, than others. You take the extra time to cut an already fallen enemy. You make it messy and devastating. You then cultivate this perception with stories around the bar your pack visits after battle. After all perception of your enemy goes a long way to dictate your own action. If you can cultivate the impression of barbarianism, then your enemy may not see the truth behind your actions.
See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:
This could be supported by the fact there there isn't a single instance of a rune priest turning traitor that I know of.
there's no info on Rune Priests going traitor, but there's very little known about space wolf traitors. we know some turned to save their lives back when the red cosairs captured a space wolf warship. there's also a warband that MAY be renegade space wolves http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Wolves
but there's not eneugh to say one way or another
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
This could be supported by the fact there there isn't a single instance of a rune priest turning traitor that I know of.
there's no info on Rune Priests going traitor, but there's very little known about space wolf traitors. we know some turned to save their lives back when the red cosairs captured a space wolf warship. there's also a warband that MAY be renegade space wolves http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Wolves
but there's not eneugh to say one way or another
Yeah, but its all very vague... and on top of that there may not have been a Rune Priest within those warbands in the first place. Until the words "rune priest so and so has turned traitor" show up in print I think I'm good to go.
See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:
EngulfedObject wrote: Emperor and that the Emperor will absolve him of his sins and ask him to slay him so he can be reborn. Maybe...
Sometimes I buff up marine numbers in my head so the setting makes sense. Or I imagine them like my marines in DoW II when they're already maxed out and destroying everything or where they quickly recover from being incapacitated.
I also significantly buff up numbers for all the warzones I read about. Especially Astra Militarum numbers. Millions are just entirely unimpressive in a galaxy-spanning setting where a single Hive World seems to outnumber the entire organization. We've had conflicts with millions here on Earth already.
Even though I'm a Dark Angels fan, I ignore ADB's depiction of them because I like them the way they're depicted in the actual novels (Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels), not his short stories. Even if they are badass, the unending "your grace," "my liege," and knight-lord this, knight that, thing ruins it for me. They're not Bretonnia in space! The Order was a meritocratic organization, even if there was the occasional "my lord" thrown in (the whole point was they got rid of the recruiting exclusively from nobles thing and it's mentioned that it's not "top-heavy formation." No room for liege-lord there, brother!). Hope this doesn't become established canon.
This. While Descent was awful, Fallen Angels I really liked. I liked the literary tools (Nemiel and Zahariel), the character portrayals etc.
The numbers do really irk me though. A planetary war (Vraks) didn't get anywhere near the death toll of the Great War.
Honestly, I like them both! I know Descent of Angels has a bad rep but I really do think it's undeserved and because of its more narrow focus (which means it's also more fleshed out, as its laying the foundation for the fall) and the fact that it actually takes place during the Great Crusade and not the Horus Heresy.
I think it's one of the more well-written novels in the series, compared to some of the awfully written and messy stories out there (even Unremembered Empire by Dan Abnett. It tries too hard to connect all the story lines but devolves into a mess about a slasher on the loose).
Fulgrim, which was released just before Descent of Angels, is awfully written (imo). l've only recently read it but the difference between Fulgrim and Descent of Angels is that one just copy pastes real life adages and terms ("Crossing the Rubicon," "Mama Juana" <-- seriously? Mama Juana? In 40k? On an Astartes flagship? Is this a comedy? There's LOADS more but I didn't bother to memorize them), while the other actually builds a believable world from the ground up. The difference here is world building vs trying too hard to squeeze real life equivalents into a sci-fi setting. One is believable and one isn't.
And Descent of Angels is one of the more personal and intimate stories in the series as you follow Zahariel's journey and experience Caliban through his eyes. You get to see the inner workings of the Order, first as a supplicant, then as an actual member. You get to see the rift form between the Lion and Luther as if you were there, watching it slowly unfold rather than just watching Primarchs throw tantrums and having it all shoved in your face.
So yea, I really like the novel
It's a book that can stand on its own. I think it's a shame Mitchel Scanlon didn't get to finish the series but what can you do. After all there's more action in Fulgrim, even if most of it is there just for the sake of it. But yea, that's my opinion and I realize most people think the book sucks. Personally, I love it
And sorry for going off topic, I just want to save what's left of its dignity!
DanielBeaver wrote: Lion El'Jonson was not a traitor per-se, but he was convinced that Horus was going to win. He took the prudent course of action to preserve his forces so that his legion could survive in a post-IoM galaxy (and maybe someday build up enough strength to defeat the forces of Chaos).
Luther's faction were loyalists who thought that the rest of the legion were secret traitors, and that Lion El'Jonson had pseudo-purged them by leaving them on Caliban. When the "traitors" returned to Caliban after the Heresy was over, Luther thought that they were returning to destroy them for good (sort of a Istvaan III type scenario), and so decided to attack first. The sense of distrust and paranoia among Luther's faction might have also allowed the corruption of chaos to seep in.
I like this! I'm inclined to think this way as well since that's what Fallen Angels heavily implies. The DA on Caliban seem to think Jonson's doomed the planet on purpose and is waiting for the Imperium to purge them for him. But it's also clear that Luther has started using Chaos as a tool. You know what they say, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." Hurr Hurr...
Pilau Rice wrote: The Emperor created the flaw in the gene - seed of the Thousand Sons intentionally as he knew that Magnus would not join him back on Terra should he still have a Legion to lead. What he didn't see was Magnus pact with Tzeentch.
The dreams of the Void Dragon seeped out on Mars which lead to the creation of the Iron Men. The Iron Men being created in the image of the Necron armies lead by the Void Dragon.
- The massive bulk behind the tendril fleets are harmless colony ships meant to "Tyrannoform" the planets stripped by their more aggressive brethren. The whole Tyranid race is like an intergalactic "replantation project".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/10 05:37:04
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD! 
The Empire 
1500 pts
: 
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
