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jareddm wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
there is literally no other Chapter in the fluff with a Latinized name,

Except for the Vlka Fenryka, which beats the ever loving gak out of Space Wolves.

Not really.

But then again taste and respect for the 40K aesthetic is not something most Space Wolves fans are too terribly concerned with.

 ImAGeek wrote:
I don't mind a bit of silliness in the game, but imo Carcharodons is a vastly better name than Space Sharks.

Space Shark smacks of the hated simplicity of Space Wolves. Vlka Fenryka sounded more legitimate, as does Carcharodons. Space Shark sounds wicked cool, but I think the move away was solid enough.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

jareddm wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
there is literally no other Chapter in the fluff with a Latinized name,

Except for the Vlka Fenryka, which beats the ever loving gak out of Space Wolves.

Not really.

But then again taste and respect for the 40K aesthetic is not something most Space Wolves fans are too terribly concerned with.

Said by someone who does nothing but complain about the current state of 40k and make disrespectful personal attacks on anyone with a different opinion.

On topic, the various incidents that the Raven Guard have had over the years involving the Alpha Legion and the Dark Eldar may mean that their geneseed could possibly be closer to Corax's original geneseed than the Raven Guard's own, which is rather interesting.

Let's keep it friendly, guys.

You make a great point! Genetic drift is attributed as the cause for their radical changes in appearance, but could that be taken at face value or to mean this was the path for Raven Guard sans the AL and DE dickery?

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Except it's still just Space Sharks, just in Pseudo-Latin.

I mean, you could call your Chapter the Anatinos Iratos, but they'd still be the Angry Platypi.

The reason it's silly is that there is literally no other Chapter in the fluff with a Latinized name, and that's because High Gothic isn't actually a language. Everything in the 50K universe is in High or Low Gothic, and then translated into English (or whatever language it gets published in) so that you can read it. That's why they are Blood Angels and not Angelorum Sanguis , and Dark Angels not Angelorum Obscurus or Lupi Astra, Summaclassiarii or whatever other fake-Latin alternate.

Actually it's different. Carcharodons is the Genus name of the Great White Sharks, and does not mean "Space Sharks". Their name just means sharks.

 Shidank wrote:
Let's keep it friendly, guys.

Yes, that's a REALLY good idea - and it's actually pretty much a requirement of continuing to be able to post here.

 Shidank wrote:
Let's keep it friendly, guys.

You make a great point! Genetic drift is attributed as the cause for their radical changes in appearance, but could that be taken at face value or to mean this was the path for Raven Guard sans the AL and DE dickery?

this is of course assuming the "raven guard heresy splinter fleet" theory is correct.

It's basically spelled out as being so, as near as you can get really.

Still, we have to respect the hardliners when they stick to the letter of GW law.

It's a fun theory and that's where GW lets us play with the idea when making armies.

Space Sharks can be played counts-as with the Space Wolf codex, right? Just substitute the word "shark" everywhere you see the word "wolf." Sharklords, Thundershark Cavalry, Stormsharks, Cybersharks. It's perfect!

I'd take a squad of Scouts and put the rest of the tacs in drop pods. Land near the enemy, weather a round of shooting, and then charge in.

I'd also not take Tyberos... as cool as he is, termies kinda blow.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Except it's still just Space Sharks, just in Pseudo-Latin.

I mean, you could call your Chapter the Anatinos Iratos, but they'd still be the Angry Platypi.

The reason it's silly is that there is literally no other Chapter in the fluff with a Latinized name, and that's because High Gothic isn't actually a language. Everything in the 50K universe is in High or Low Gothic, and then translated into English (or whatever language it gets published in) so that you can read it. That's why they are Blood Angels and not Angelorum Sanguis , and Dark Angels not Angelorum Obscurus or Lupi Astra, Summaclassiarii or whatever other fake-Latin alternate.

Actually it's different. Carcharodons is the Genus name of the Great White Sharks, and does not mean "Space Sharks". Their name just means sharks.

Except the full name is Carcharadons Astra, with Carcharadons just being the shortened colloquial version people use.

It's silly Latinized goofiness.

I mean, people are welcome to think it sounds better, but it reeks of silly Forgeworld snowflakism that their home chapters suffer from immensely.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Except it's still just Space Sharks, just in Pseudo-Latin.

I mean, you could call your Chapter the Anatinos Iratos, but they'd still be the Angry Platypi.

The reason it's silly is that there is literally no other Chapter in the fluff with a Latinized name, and that's because High Gothic isn't actually a language. Everything in the 50K universe is in High or Low Gothic, and then translated into English (or whatever language it gets published in) so that you can read it. That's why they are Blood Angels and not Angelorum Sanguis , and Dark Angels not Angelorum Obscurus or Lupi Astra, Summaclassiarii or whatever other fake-Latin alternate.

Actually it's different. Carcharodons is the Genus name of the Great White Sharks, and does not mean "Space Sharks". Their name just means sharks.

Except the full name is Carcharadons Astra, with Carcharadons just being the shortened colloquial version people use.

It's silly Latinized goofiness.

I mean, people are welcome to think it sounds better, but it reeks of silly Forgeworld snowflakism that their home chapters suffer from immensely.

Except it's not Latinized...it's actual latin.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Except it's still just Space Sharks, just in Pseudo-Latin.

I mean, you could call your Chapter the Anatinos Iratos, but they'd still be the Angry Platypi........immensely.

Except it's not Latinized...it's actual latin.

As I pointed out earlier, and on every thread I have ever seen on them. People love picking apart the name while being ignorant (not meant as a insult) of the meaning. It is often the genus that the Megaladon is grouped under, depending on what archeologist you ask.

Damned quote boxes!

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I'd take a squad of Scouts and put the rest of the tacs in drop pods. Land near the enemy, weather a round of shooting, and then charge in.

I'd also not take Tyberos... as cool as he is, termies kinda blow.

Depends if you want to have a fun fluffy army with their leader or not.
I personally would take Tyberos and some termies.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I'd take a squad of Scouts and put the rest of the tacs in drop pods. Land near the enemy, weather a round of shooting, and then charge in.

I'd also not take Tyberos... as cool as he is, termies kinda blow.

Don't take him with Terminators then.
I have a 1850 list with him, a Spartan with Schism, and 3 Assault Centurions along with a Biker Captain with The Shield Eternal. The Centurions benefit from the PE against their weakest target along with getting better shooting too, and then you give the Captain the Teeth for a mean 5 man squad when they meet up. Then you can take advantage of Bikers, which isn't a bad option with Carcharodons. Sure you won't be able to buy a CCW on them, but with Grav Guns it's a breeze to kill a majority of a squad and then charge to finish them, easily earning Rage.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I'd take a squad of Scouts and put the rest of the tacs in drop pods. Land near the enemy, weather a round of shooting, and then charge in.

I'd also not take Tyberos... as cool as he is, termies kinda blow.

Also, the OP asked for a fluffy list. Without The Red Wake you just don't have that. Anywho, what about taking him with a command squad? Don't they get artificer armor?

 Wyzilla wrote:

Except it's not Latinized...it's actual latin.

Latinize: give a Latin or Latinate form to (a word).

Stop splitting hairs, especially when the definition doesn't allow for it.

darkcloak, I have just recently started a Carcharodon Astra force as well. I myself like the fluff in the game, but play against a lot of strong armies, so I tried to find a happy medium. I'm still piecing together my army, but when its all said and done, itll look something like this.

HQ
Tyberos

Captain on bike with command squad

Elites
Assault Centurions w/ t.l. meltas

ironclad in pod

sternguard in pod

Troops
2x 5 man bike squads each with an attack bike w/multimelta, grav gun, melta in each

Fast
storm talon

Heavy
Storm raven


My idea was to mimic the fast and hard hitting tactics that the sharks employ, but to stay competitive. The bikes move fast and are just sick. Giving them grav guns and meltas can cut down units to the point where I should win most assaults. Tyberos and the centurions would go in the storm raven and then using the storm talon/raven combo with them arriving together makes for good support that I can get anywhere on the board quickly. I'm still working out how to get another pod in the list, or put the dread in the forgeworld pod (the name of it escapes me). Hopefully this helps give you some direction and goodluck!! great to see another shark player. Maybe someday the imperium will dedicate a whole week to celebrate us...

I'm baffled by the people saying it's unfluffy to not take Tyberos, where does it say he has a dozen clones running around leaving every demi-company sized Carcharadon force? I thought he was the (apparent) Chapter Master..

locarno24 wrote:
Tactically, they're supposed to like surprise and sudden assaults, and tend to go into bloodthirsty massacre mode as the battle escalates.

Note that unlike Blood Angels or World Eaters, they aren't bezerkers. Tyberos is entirely in control of his actions, that's just the way he fights.

Note that the reason Heresy-pattern armour is so common is that it's essentially a 'patch-job' - you'll find that the Carcharodons who get used against rebel and renegade astartes tend to pick over the corpse after they've won, and resupply power armour, ammunition, etc from their defeated foes.

This activity is probably meant to mimic the real life activity of actual real sharks. Real sharks aren't very beserk until the battle starts too, just like the Carcharodons, and many sharks scavenge their dead prey for extra food, just like the Carcharodons scavenge their fallen foes. Likewise, the Carcharodons being stationed in the deep galaxy far away from everyone else and the Imperium knowing little about them is also meant to mimic sharks patrolling through the deep oceans, with humanity knowing little about the deep ocean even today.

Basically, for the OP, if you're trying to think what Carcharodons are like, "What would an actual shark actually do in this situation?" and "How can I make this formation/battle list a reference to sharks?" is a good place to start. Though it should be subtle (unlike Space Wolves), just like the above examples.

As an aside, in FFG's Death Watch RPG, Carchardon Librarian powers are deep-sea themed, like giving one the feeling of drowning or being crushed by intense deep ocean water pressure with no light and no idea of what's up or down, IIRC.

natpri771 wrote:
Crunch
Fluff
Not a lot is known about them. They are fleet based and operate outside the Imperium's borders. Their gene seed most matches the Raven Guard, though this is likely a lie to cover up the fact that they are Night Lords, which makes sense because a lot of their behaviours match the Night Lords more than the Raven Guard. They mix and math several different patterns of armour and possess tattoos that are similar to New Zealand Māori tattoos. Not a lot is known about their organisation apart from the fact that every company has its own veterans and scouts.

Hope this helps

HH Book 3 pretty heavily implies they're Raven Guard (bloodthirsty old school Raven Guard sent away by Corax to the fringes for being too bloodthirsty). It's almost as (possibly more so) anvil-licious as a prophet referring to missing Thousand Sons as "ravens crying tears of blood" (in this case, there's actual artwork of one of their helmets and it's a Carcharodon helmet)

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

darkcloak wrote:So Space Sharks guys.

This is correct.

Also just want to start up a discussion about the mighty Carcharodons!

This is not.

Join the voices of reason and don't allow Forgeworld to unnecessarily Latinize the names of Chapters.

That said, the Space Sharks are a pretty cool chapter, if a bit unruly and prone to getting carried away and making bad decisions. Gotta be kinda specific with what you order them to do. If you ask them to create a distraction while you attack, remind them that while blowing up the entire planet is distracting, it's probably not the best way to do it since everyone else is on the planet too.

IIRC, it's explicitly stated one is high-gothic and one is low-gothic (I could be wrong), similar to Astra Militarum/Imperial Guard, Adeptas Sororitas/Sisters of Battle, and Adeptus Astartes/Space Marines. You probably already knew that but maybe others didn't.

 Lord Blackscale wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
I don't mind a bit of silliness in the game, but imo Carcharodons is a vastly better name than Space Sharks.

Agreed. Besides the fluff says they are not even sure this is even the same chapter that once called themselved the Space Sharks.

I think you're getting their fluff confused with the Minotaurs. It's the Minotaurs chapter that has the "not even sure this is the same chapter" fluff.

 Gashrog wrote:
I'm baffled by the people saying it's unfluffy to not take Tyberos, where does it say he has a dozen clones running around leaving every demi-company sized Carcharadon force? I thought he was the (apparent) Chapter Master..

Yea, there's only one Tyberos and he can't be everywhere. He's also pretty distinct, so it's not like other Carcharodons masquerade as him as if they were Alpharius or something.

(though he does see more action than a typical chapter master, probably. Even Space-Marine-Khorne Asterion Morloc has fluff describing his off-time sitting on his skull throne counting blood... er, bronze throne counting blood. Tyberos, meanwhile, was never spotted at any meetings and intead that high chaplain or whomever liason'd for him. The only reason Imperial High Command even knew he was present during the war was because he showed up on lots of battle footage videos and reports from scared-gakless witnesses)

 Lord Blackscale wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I'd take a squad of Scouts and put the rest of the tacs in drop pods. Land near the enemy, weather a round of shooting, and then charge in.

I'd also not take Tyberos... as cool as he is, termies kinda blow.

Also, the OP asked for a fluffy list. Without The Red Wake you just don't have that. Anywho, what about taking him with a command squad? Don't they get artificer armor?

I'm pretty sure that Tyberos has not been present at every single engagement, no matter how small, the Carcharodons have made since their founding.

Oh yeah right! I forgot that everything sucks.

Latin, duplicate Tyberos, oh balls.

Ill just play Ultramarines then

Heaven forbid someone actually enjoy their toys...
To all the cool people in this thread. You rock, Megalodons rock, building your army the way you want to rocks.

Just to spite everyone I'm going to make an unbound list with all terminators

darkcloak wrote:
Oh yeah right! I forgot that everything sucks.

Latin, duplicate Tyberos, oh balls.

Ill just play Ultramarines then

Heaven forbid someone actually enjoy their toys...
To all the cool people in this thread. You rock, Megalodons rock, building your army the way you want to rocks.

Just to spite everyone I'm going to make an unbound list with all terminators

could run the strike force ultra formation.

darkcloak wrote:
Oh yeah right! I forgot that everything sucks.

Latin, duplicate Tyberos, oh balls.

Ill just play Ultramarines then

Heaven forbid someone actually enjoy their toys...
To all the cool people in this thread. You rock, Megalodons rock, building your army the way you want to rocks.

Just to spite everyone I'm going to make an unbound list with all terminators

Please do.

I love fluffy lists, and I think it's great to see the thought that's gone into making "Shark-like" lists. In my opinion, you should play a force that you have a crush on; otherwise, half the fun of the hobby is removed.

Zefig wrote:Space Sharks can be played counts-as with the Space Wolf codex, right? Just substitute the word "shark" everywhere you see the word "wolf." Sharklords, Thundershark Cavalry, Stormsharks, Cybersharks. It's perfect!

Well cybersharks would be kind of useless on dry lands flops D6 in random direction, although the santasled could be turned into a whale-shark

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Except it's still just Space Sharks, just in Pseudo-Latin.

I mean, you could call your Chapter the Anatinos Iratos, but they'd still be the Angry Platypi.

The reason it's silly is that there is literally no other Chapter in the fluff with a Latinized name, and that's because High Gothic isn't actually a language. Everything in the 50K universe is in High or Low Gothic, and then translated into English (or whatever language it gets published in) so that you can read it. That's why they are Blood Angels and not Angelorum Sanguis , and Dark Angels not Angelorum Obscurus or Lupi Astra, Summaclassiarii or whatever other fake-Latin alternate.

Actually it's different. Carcharodons is the Genus name of the Great White Sharks, and does not mean "Space Sharks". Their name just means sharks.

Except the full name is Carcharadons Astra, with Carcharadons just being the shortened colloquial version people use.

It's silly Latinized goofiness.

I mean, people are welcome to think it sounds better, but it reeks of silly Forgeworld snowflakism that their home chapters suffer from immensely.

If people are welcome to think it sounds better then why do you keep on about? We got that you don't like but others do, deal with it and move on. (minotaurs should be Space bulls for god sake!)
I like them both because the original chapter had that corney logo.
I wish the Rainbow marines made a return

The more I think about it two raiders with assault terminators, plus Tyb and another TDA equipped HQ and a few tactical squads is probably the best was to go!

I figure 10 terminators, 2 raiders, that should be just under 1k, throw in the HQ section for probably 300 points? Not sure what Tyberos costs, but I figure he's not cheap. A couple tac squads in pods, and maybe a dreadnought.

Put the raiders out and DPA the two Tacs, save the dread for later drop pod fun. Pretty basic, but really so are the Sharks. Smell blood, strike.

This will do I think. I know SM aren't the best assault army out there but this way I can utilize all my CTs and still be fluffy. Plus low model count means I can afford FW armour and maybe even some fancy dreadnought weapons. I have always loved the dual AC dread, maybe this is a perfect opportunity for that!

I absolutely love the potential of Carcharodon paint jobs. However, the vast majority of them (including my own Tyberos I painted up) fail to capitalize on it due to laziness or difficulty.

I am of course talking about the Tā Moko free-hand art on the armor as depicted in all the books. That's what traditional Maori tattoos are called, for the record.

I have a lot of respect for Polynesian culture already, And it just looks so cool. It's a great concept for a Space Marine army and a way to make each unit super distinct. But, as I said, no one does it. We all just do the flat grey with black shoulders. :( Super lame.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

darkcloak wrote:
Not sure what Tyberos costs, but I figure he's not cheap.

All the rules for the Badab named characters are just straight up on the Forgeworld website.

Tyberos is only 190 points. Considering a scratchbuild Terminator Chapter Master with a lightning claw and chainfist runs 195, he's a freakin' steal. Besides having superior weapon options, he's a pretty significant force multiplier.

If I were going to do Carcharodons, I'd draw all the tattoos on with a really thin black marker. So much easier than trying to control a brush to do it, and on grey or white they'd show up.