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Soroitas do have drop pods.........same as they have ships.

The Astartes having Superheavies in current 40k is very new - hence the refrence to GW doig new stuff - as you are no doubt aware - the 40k universe is changing on a weekly basis - witness all the new stuff about the Skitari etc recently.

Skitari have augmentations that make them as close to robots as their magos can - Sororitas - like Asrates can and do have cybernetic replacements.

All GW sources say that Power armour for the Sisters gives same protection but not the same level of cool stuff as the Astartes mainly due to the black carapace interface.

Assuming equal battlefield with some degree of rubble and cover for both sides, standard issue equipment on all parts, starting the battle at somewhat long range by assault rifle standards, I'd put the balance something like this. 1 Marine is worth:

Guardsmen - Unlikely to be able to successfully defeat the Marine wthout more powerful tools.

Skitarii - Major cybernetic improvements and weapons capable of dealing more decent damage gives them an edge over the Guardsmen. Still would need a fair amount of them.

Battle Sisters - Unknown due to vagueness of their fluff and lack of clarity on what the hell they actually do. Either their Faith-Powers™ make them basically Warframes, or the powers are more mundane. I'd say ten but that's just throwing out a number. They have a number of really serious drawbacks. Shorter lives means that they often have less battle experience, the Marine has superior wargear (yes, he does, Oxa. Your SoB may have good gear, but it's still far thinner, and the absence of the Black Carapace means they have much less control over their movement). The Marine can maneuvre more comfortably as bolter fire can't penetrate PA plating, and the shockwave of the impact is something his physique can handle, whereas his return fire can demolish the SoB without even penetrating the armour. He is also fast enough to dive out of cover and shoot before the SoB can fire back. If it gets to melee the SoB won't stand a shadow of a chance. After all, the Auretian Technocracy was just Marines, except humans instead of Astartes, and they got utterly crushed by the Astartes. SoB are Auretians + Faith Powers™, so it's down to how much difference they do.

There would be a slew of dead guardsmen if a marine attacked them. Hundreds would be required unless they were issued plasma rifles. The real question becomes, what is the concentration of plasma and melta weapons? 500 guardsmen to a plasma rifle? You would need that to kill a marine.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Soroitas do have drop pods.........same as they have ships.

The Astartes having Superheavies in current 40k is very new - hence the refrence to GW doig new stuff - as you are no doubt aware - the 40k universe is changing on a weekly basis - witness all the new stuff about the Skitari etc recently.

Skitari have augmentations that make them as close to robots as their magos can - Sororitas - like Asrates can and do have cybernetic replacements.

All GW sources say that Power armour for the Sisters gives same protection but not the same level of cool stuff as the Astartes mainly due to the black carapace interface.

Game mechanics state it has the same armor rating, and only on TT. FFG rates their armor lower, plus Sisters tend to get slaughtered in the Black Library with very little fuss. Not to mention in simple design Sister power armor is godawful and will lead to the wearer being extremely vulnerable to blunt trauma. And the boobplate works like a massive shot trap that will cause things like bolts to glance right into the sternum.

And no, neither Astartes or Sisters have augmentation anywhere near the level of Skitarii elite besides Space Marine Dreadnoughts. Skitarii of high enough rank get to the level where they have Astartes grade armor for skin and have assault cannons for arms. Not to mention are on a constant high of combat stims that render them fully immune to pain. Skitarii can get to the level where you need multiple Space Marines to equal ONE of those brutes.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Deploy one Captain Titus.

Receive one dead Ork Waaagh and Chaos Space Marine warband.

To be fair, Captain Titus was very lucky. He only took on a few Ork infantry at a time relatively speaking and only 3-5 Chaos Marines per engagement.

Titus solo'd a warboss and his entire entourage and crushed a Daemon prince's skull with his bare hands (and killed off pretty much his entire remaining warband while he was at it) if every space marine was as good as he was the Imperium would be under no threat from anyone.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Soroitas do have drop pods.........same as they have ships.

The Astartes having Superheavies in current 40k is very new - hence the refrence to GW doig new stuff - as you are no doubt aware - the 40k universe is changing on a weekly basis - witness all the new stuff about the Skitari etc recently.

Skitari have augmentations that make them as close to robots as their magos can - Sororitas - like Asrates can and do have cybernetic replacements.

All GW sources say that Power armour for the Sisters gives same protection but not the same level of cool stuff as the Astartes mainly due to the black carapace interface.

Game mechanics state it has the same armor rating, and only on TT. FFG rates their armor lower, plus Sisters tend to get slaughtered in the Black Library with very little fuss. Not to mention in simple design Sister power armor is godawful and will lead to the wearer being extremely vulnerable to blunt trauma. And the boobplate works like a massive shot trap that will cause things like bolts to glance right into the sternum.

And no, neither Astartes or Sisters have augmentation anywhere near the level of Skitarii elite besides Space Marine Dreadnoughts. Skitarii of high enough rank get to the level where they have Astartes grade armor for skin and have assault cannons for arms. Not to mention are on a constant high of combat stims that render them fully immune to pain. Skitarii can get to the level where you need multiple Space Marines to equal ONE of those brutes.

FFG is not GW - GW have Always stated in ALL their fluff that the level of protection is equal to Astartes - FFG changed it a bit for their RPG -for "reasons" like quite alot of things in fact.

The practilacilites of the armour as we perceive them are irrelevent - their are bullet traps all over the place for all sorts of 4ok things - but again lets go back to the actual GW fluff - and that says.............same level of protection - always.

also, if you look at it for ma TT perspective, a combat tac marine is worth only about 4 more points per model than a Skitarii. I don't have the AM codex or the SOB codex to compare point values, but that might be a place to start. I know fluff and crunch rarely mesh, but it could give you a frame of reference.

It depends entirely on the situation.

Marine vs. guardsmen in a single room with the guardsmen only getting lasguns? It's going to be a massacre, and it's far from certain that any reasonable number of guardsmen can kill the marine. But it's also not a very realistic or relevant scenario.

Marine vs. guardsmen in a ruined city with the guardsmen getting their normal weapons? The 10:1 ratio is probably about right, the marine has lots of advantages but all it takes is one plasma or melta shot to kill him.

Marine vs. guardsmen in an open field at long range? 1:1 at best, since both sides are equally good at pressing the "fire" button on a krak missile/lascannon/etc.

Marine and guardsmen have the same strategic objective? Probably ~10:1 again, a platoon of guardsmen can accomplish the same objective as a squad of marines, but will take much heavier losses. But the guardsmen cost a lot less than 1/10th of a marine, so "send more guardsmen" is usually the appropriate strategy.

Taffy17 wrote:
I think its said that 1 Marine is worth 100 guardsman, so how many Scions, Skitarii or Sisters do you think 1 Marine would be worth?

There are some scale issues. Marines get better the larger the scale.

A single marine might only be able to take 10 guardsmen
10 marines could probably handle 500 guardsmen.

The increase in scale makes the marines better and better

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Soroitas do have drop pods.........same as they have ships.

The Astartes having Superheavies in current 40k is very new - hence the refrence to GW doig new stuff - as you are no doubt aware - the 40k universe is changing on a weekly basis - witness all the new stuff about the Skitari etc recently.

Skitari have augmentations that make them as close to robots as their magos can - Sororitas - like Asrates can and do have cybernetic replacements.

All GW sources say that Power armour for the Sisters gives same protection but not the same level of cool stuff as the Astartes mainly due to the black carapace interface.

Game mechanics state it has the same armor rating, and only on TT. FFG rates their armor lower, plus Sisters tend to get slaughtered in the Black Library with very little fuss. Not to mention in simple design Sister power armor is godawful and will lead to the wearer being extremely vulnerable to blunt trauma. And the boobplate works like a massive shot trap that will cause things like bolts to glance right into the sternum.

And no, neither Astartes or Sisters have augmentation anywhere near the level of Skitarii elite besides Space Marine Dreadnoughts. Skitarii of high enough rank get to the level where they have Astartes grade armor for skin and have assault cannons for arms. Not to mention are on a constant high of combat stims that render them fully immune to pain. Skitarii can get to the level where you need multiple Space Marines to equal ONE of those brutes.

FFG is not GW - GW have Always stated in ALL their fluff that the level of protection is equal to Astartes - FFG changed it a bit for their RPG -for "reasons" like quite alot of things in fact.

The practilacilites of the armour as we perceive them are irrelevent - their are bullet traps all over the place for all sorts of 4ok things - but again lets go back to the actual GW fluff - and that says.............same level of protection - always.

Game mechanics have no bearing on the actual universe. Saves, weapon skill, strength, etc mean absolutely nothing as they cannot translate into any greater understanding of the universe. They're stats, and they exist for a game. They have no bearing on the "reality" of 40K.

Also, FFG is directly overseen by GW and most of their material is copied from other GW material.

I am also fairly sure that the blurb about equal protection has not been in canon material since 3rd edition.

 Exergy wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:
I think its said that 1 Marine is worth 100 guardsman, so how many Scions, Skitarii or Sisters do you think 1 Marine would be worth?

There are some scale issues. Marines get better the larger the scale.

A single marine might only be able to take 10 guardsmen
10 marines could probably handle 500 guardsmen.

The increase in scale makes the marines better and better

Why do people never consider this to work the other way around? The Guardsmen outnumbering the Space Marines by 50x probably takes advantage of scale a whole lot better than the Marines would (particularly going from a 10x to a 50x number advantage)

I'd place much better bets on the marine vs 10 guardsmen than 10 marines vs 500 guardsmen when looking at if the Marine is going to come out on top.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I am also fairly sure that the blurb about equal protection has not been in canon material since 3rd edition.

It's probably just as much now as it was then they certainly haven't added anything new in that timespan to sisters fluff

Even if the power armor is the same Astartes have access to terminator armor and centurion armor, which sisters certainly don't have. Also bikes, and drop pods. so it has been fairly well established that equipment and vehicle wise, the sisters are not up to the Astartes level

depends on gear, armour and the environment,

for example in close quarter battle, and terminator Armour on a less than perfect world, the marine has huge advantages. in both range and close up, there tougher, stronger and can suvive conditions no others can.

open ground it gets more even with power Armour, vs bolters and such but again they have thee toughness and armour advantages.

Sisters have good gear but its no marine level, theres is more powerful,more capable and a wider armourey available to use.

standard las guns, no hope at all, total massacre at range and close combat. they get torn limb from limb

yes plasma/melta but there the only chance, las is just going to make the marine more angry.

 Exergy wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:
I think its said that 1 Marine is worth 100 guardsman, so how many Scions, Skitarii or Sisters do you think 1 Marine would be worth?

There are some scale issues. Marines get better the larger the scale.

A single marine might only be able to take 10 guardsmen
10 marines could probably handle 500 guardsmen.

The increase in scale makes the marines better and better

Its actually the inverse. At a small scale the Space Marine will do far better. That's why Space Marines are the IoM's precise surgical tool while the Imperial Guard is the IoM's hammer.

one marine vs 100 guard, wel marines are alot more skilled, and capable so they would not take on 100, pick off Smaller groups, ambush, insurgency warfare, traps and has one key advantage, they can go anywhere, they can cross toxic areas no trouble or take them into places humans are going to suffer.

they can beat 100, maybe even 1000 in right place but not quick, over weeks, months of attrition warfare.

 jhe90 wrote:
one marine vs 100 guard, wel marines are alot more skilled, and capable so they would not take on 100, pick off Smaller groups, ambush, insurgency warfare, traps and has one key advantage, they can go anywhere, they can cross toxic areas no trouble or take them into places humans are going to suffer.

they can beat 100, maybe even 1000 in right place but not quick, over weeks, months of attrition warfare.

Don't forget those guardsmen will also lose a lot of morale and willpower after watching friends getting killed by a giant that disappears as quickly as it came repeatedly

Marines aren't ghosts than can go somehow invisible and teleport left and right.

They're gigantic person in less-than-stealthy power armor.

As for morale, depends on what regiment is present.

2BlackJack1 wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
one marine vs 100 guard, wel marines are alot more skilled, and capable so they would not take on 100, pick off Smaller groups, ambush, insurgency warfare, traps and has one key advantage, they can go anywhere, they can cross toxic areas no trouble or take them into places humans are going to suffer.

they can beat 100, maybe even 1000 in right place but not quick, over weeks, months of attrition warfare.

Don't forget those guardsmen will also lose a lot of morale and willpower after watching friends getting killed by a giant that disappears as quickly as it came repeatedly

true, there going to start to lose discipline, order and rank systems at a certain point, then there even easier meat.

and think of environments, jungle, immune to desise and eat anything, mountains, endurance, ruined city close combat ability, desert, water supply, seee's in sand storm. plains, less s but endurence and enchanced eyesight, night vsion. ship, zero g, close combat, o2 supply.
very few places the marine is not a superior fighter.

 GKTiberius wrote:
Even if the power armor is the same Astartes have access to terminator armor and centurion armor, which sisters certainly don't have. Also bikes, and drop pods. so it has been fairly well established that equipment and vehicle wise, the sisters are not up to the Astartes level

.. except when the Sororitas is used to decapitate a renegade Marine Chapter.

 Psienesis wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:
Even if the power armor is the same Astartes have access to terminator armor and centurion armor, which sisters certainly don't have. Also bikes, and drop pods. so it has been fairly well established that equipment and vehicle wise, the sisters are not up to the Astartes level

.. except when the Sororitas is used to decapitate a renegade Marine Chapter.

Yeah they were once used against the Flesh Tearers.

 Psienesis wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:
Even if the power armor is the same Astartes have access to terminator armor and centurion armor, which sisters certainly don't have. Also bikes, and drop pods. so it has been fairly well established that equipment and vehicle wise, the sisters are not up to the Astartes level

.. except when the Sororitas is used to decapitate a renegade Marine Chapter.

Note the convenient omission of numbers.

I can fully buy that you use 80,000 SoB to take out the leadership of a Marine chapter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Marines aren't ghosts than can go somehow invisible and teleport left and right.

They're gigantic person in less-than-stealthy power armor.

Unless They're Raven Guard.

In which case they are big and OP and super-sneaky.

For example, at least Raven Guard (maybe other Legions too?) used what is literally Crysis-esque stealth fields, and combined with stummers and the like, they can just pick off the Guardsmen with ease. Stalker Bolter or combat blade, the poor mortals won't know what's hit them.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Marines aren't ghosts than can go somehow invisible and teleport left and right.

They're gigantic person in less-than-stealthy power armor.

As for morale, depends on what regiment is present.

Power armor is nearly invisible on thermal by blending in with the background, and Astartes can move without making a sound people can pick up on. Especially Raven Guard- a single Raven Guard Marine could move through Time's Square in broad daylight without anybody noticing him.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Marines aren't ghosts than can go somehow invisible and teleport left and right.

They're gigantic person in less-than-stealthy power armor.

As for morale, depends on what regiment is present.

Power armor is nearly invisible on thermal by blending in with the background, and Astartes can move without making a sound people can pick up on. Especially Raven Guard- a single Raven Guard Marine could move through Time's Square in broad daylight without anybody noticing him.

Although to be fair, Raven Guard stealth tech is almost cheating a bit.

Kinda like Gaunt Ghosts, I guess.

2BlackJack1 wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
one marine vs 100 guard, wel marines are alot more skilled, and capable so they would not take on 100, pick off Smaller groups, ambush, insurgency warfare, traps and has one key advantage, they can go anywhere, they can cross toxic areas no trouble or take them into places humans are going to suffer.

they can beat 100, maybe even 1000 in right place but not quick, over weeks, months of attrition warfare.

Don't forget those guardsmen will also lose a lot of morale and willpower after watching friends getting killed by a giant that disappears as quickly as it came repeatedly

The Imperial Guard morale tends to hold when fighting the horrors of their galaxy, so I wouldn't count on that.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Kinda like Gaunt Ghosts, I guess.

Do the Gaunt's Ghosts have tech like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fisfSSa74uQ&t=30s

Marines don't have that, either.

 Tyran wrote:

The Imperial Guard morale tends to hold when fighting the horrors of their galaxy, so I wouldn't count on that.

Not really, no. As soon as their commissars die, they crumble really fast (even DKoK are not immune to this). And who do you think would die first?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Marines don't have that, either.

They do. Raven Guard still pack around stealth field tech, and have done so since at least the Horus Heresy.

DKoK don't break anymore, new fluff scrapped that bit, and we all know that old fluff gets trumped by new fluff, yes?

And no, they don't all need Commissars.