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Could someone please tell me what the thunderdome list is? I know that DA can get some kind of 2+ re-rollable (can they?) but surely DA aren't top-tier. Surely not DA!!! Is it a daemon thing?

OP, I demand 2 minutes of my life back for reading this thread.

 ColdSadHungry wrote:
Could someone please tell me what the thunderdome list is? I know that DA can get some kind of 2+ re-rollable (can they?) but surely DA aren't top-tier. Surely not DA!!! Is it a daemon thing?

Dark Angels can get an almost armywide 2+ rerollable cover save on their bikes by jinking and having nightshrouds nearby. This one a fast moving army like the bikes is quite strong for armies that can't ignore cover saves and can spam a lot of grav guns on relentless platforms. That being said, many armies do ignore covers, and as long as Tau are out there cover save based armies will never be top tier. Still a strong army tho.

Dman137 wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
On a even further note the army's that have won are prime examples of over powered lists from codecs that clearly need to be fixed.

That's a pretty much par for the course in tournaments. What kind of lists did you expect you'd be playing against?

Eldar/DE were abusing a rerollable 2++ in 2013 before it got nerfed out by TO's. There's nothing new under the sun here, except it's DA (which is quite a change).

Up your game homeboy. You're the one choosing to compete in these events. So, don't hate

the only 2++ reroll they nerf is invul, not cover or armour. It's should be all 2++ get a nerf. As for uping my game, I did really well at the tournement, in doubles we were on the final table and that's when we played thunderdome, and in singles I was 3-1. If you can sit there and say that 2++ re-roll is balanced then your out of your mind and clearly haven't played against it. I don't care who I play or if I win or lose I just like playing in a competitive atmosphere. My whole post is about people need some skill and tactics to play, thunderdome requires none of those, it requires no thinking and a small child could win with it. The event was Warmasters Challange

If you're talking about the ITC nerf to the re-rollable 2+'s, it's ALL saves, not just Invuln's.

 ColdSadHungry wrote:
Could someone please tell me what the thunderdome list is? I know that DA can get some kind of 2+ re-rollable (can they?) but surely DA aren't top-tier. Surely not DA!!! Is it a daemon thing?

A Thunderdome list is built around 4 Space Wolf HQs on Thunderwolves. I belive this is the one that won NOVA.

Sammael
DA Chaplain on bike
RW Command Squad on Bikes
DA Scouts
DA Tacs in Rhino
Wolf Guard Battle Leader on TWM
3x Iron Priests on TWM
Blood Claws in Rhino
Grey Hunters in Rhino
3x Biker Librarians (Conclave)
Rune Priest Biker

Dman137 wrote:
So this weekend we had a major event first day was doubles 2000pts (1000pts per player) and the next day was singles 1850. Now it's been made clear that everyone on here thinks eldar are crazy amazing and over powered (sure) even tho there hasn't been one major event since they came out that eldar have won. On a even further note the army's that have won are prime examples of over powered lists from codecs that clearly need to be fixed. But this thread is to speak about the thunder dome list, you can't tell me that eldar are broken but 2++ reroll cover (that dosent need to be cast is just happens (asking as you within 6" of the landspeeder, who also gets the 2++ reroll) while everyone says eldar don't need skill to play they are the easy army to use to win, clearly you haven't seen the thunder dome army in action, I could let a two year old use the army and they would win lol so before you all go on about "ohh fix eldar they are broken blah blah blah" you all need to really open your eyes to the fact that there are even more broken things then eldar. Thunder dome shouldn't be allowed, of its needs a big nerf.

On a side note for those who think eldar are unfun to play against, a eldar army with a Lynx on a sky shield with scattbikes and hornets came 4th overall and took home best sports.

OK we were at the same event I assume (Warmaster's Challenge in Kitchener?). Also, you're talking about the 1850 singles correct? Tau+Eldar took doubles and the RW+CoF Iron Priests took singles.

I'm not sure but I believe it was written specifically to counter Eldar lists. If you played against it with Eldar scat-bike spam you were definitely going to have a bad time. If you can take down the land speeder granting shrouded then the whole thing starts to falter.

One of the main reasons this list did well though is because there was next to no Tau, I assume because scat-bikes + WKs have been totally smashing them as of late. If that list went up against any decent army with markelights you can be sure it would lose shrouded and then a whole bunch of models very quickly.

Also, on a complete aside, was there a best sportsman for doubles? Cause I'm fairly certain the Eldar player didn't bring home best sports in singles

 More Dakka wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
So this weekend we had a major event first day was doubles 2000pts (1000pts per player) and the next day was singles 1850. Now it's been made clear that everyone on here thinks eldar are crazy amazing and over powered (sure) even tho there hasn't been one major event since they came out that eldar have won. On a even further note the army's that have won are prime examples of over powered lists from codecs that clearly need to be fixed. But this thread is to speak about the thunder dome list, you can't tell me that eldar are broken but 2++ reroll cover (that dosent need to be cast is just happens (asking as you within 6" of the landspeeder, who also gets the 2++ reroll) while everyone says eldar don't need skill to play they are the easy army to use to win, clearly you haven't seen the thunder dome army in action, I could let a two year old use the army and they would win lol so before you all go on about "ohh fix eldar they are broken blah blah blah" you all need to really open your eyes to the fact that there are even more broken things then eldar. Thunder dome shouldn't be allowed, of its needs a big nerf.

On a side note for those who think eldar are unfun to play against, a eldar army with a Lynx on a sky shield with scattbikes and hornets came 4th overall and took home best sports.

OK we were at the same event I assume (Warmaster's Challenge in Kitchener?). Also, you're talking about the 1850 singles correct? Tau+Eldar took doubles and the RW+CoF Iron Priests took singles.

I'm not sure but I believe it was written specifically to counter Eldar lists. If you played against it with Eldar scat-bike spam you were definitely going to have a bad time. If you can take down the land speeder granting shrouded then the whole thing starts to falter.

One of the main reasons this list did well though is because there was next to no Tau, I assume because scat-bikes + WKs have been totally smashing them as of late. If that list went up against any decent army with markelights you can be sure it would lose shrouded and then a whole bunch of models very quickly.

Also, on a complete aside, was there a best sportsman for doubles? Cause I'm fairly certain the Eldar player didn't bring home best sports in singles

I was talking more so about the singles list, but the doubles list was pretty much the same. No tau blew my mind and no cents blew my mind, I'm not saying the event wasn't fun or anything I'm sure everyone from the looks of it had a great time, expect those guys that left after round 2 on the first day idk what happened I just no they left. As for the counter to it, I feel like when the nefd the 2++ they should have nefd it for all 2++ not just invul (that's why we didn't see any daemon army's) the eldar getting best sports was awesome to me because a few threads back someone said eldar are no fun to play against and that the people using eldar are typically WAAC, but seeing as you were at the event did you feel like any of the eldar players were in fun to play against.? (Curious question)

Oh I agree, there shouldn't be any re-rolls to non-static saves of any kind IMO, just makes things virtually indestructible.

I played 2 Eldar lists, both featuring scat-bikes, both were fun to play, and I wasn't completely obliterated in either case (at least not until the 3rd/4th turn) but I think people who decry them as OP aren't really looking at it from a fun angle. I did feel like I really couldn't do much to them (largely my fault for not bringing a lot of ranged firepower), so just chose to either ignore them, or use my fast units to threaten them and make them move around/choose to either turbo or shoot.

Personally if I went to that tournament with a mind-set towards winning I would be looking at what to take to counter that unit type specifically. It's the combination of mobility, durability, range and firepower that makes them basically the #1 troop choice in the game.

Also, I'm 100% sure Eldar did not get best sports in singles.

 More Dakka wrote:
Oh I agree, there shouldn't be any re-rolls to non-static saves of any kind IMO, just makes things virtually indestructible.

I played 2 Eldar lists, both featuring scat-bikes, both were fun to play, and I wasn't completely obliterated in either case (at least not until the 3rd/4th turn) but I think people who decry them as OP aren't really looking at it from a fun angle. I did feel like I really couldn't do much to them (largely my fault for not bringing a lot of ranged firepower), so just chose to either ignore them, or use my fast units to threaten them and make them move around/choose to either turbo or shoot.

Personally if I went to that tournament with a mind-set towards winning I would be looking at what to take to counter that unit type specifically. It's the combination of mobility, durability, range and firepower that makes them basically the #1 troop choice in the game.

Also, I'm 100% sure Eldar did not get best sports in singles.

sorry I meant eldar had best sports for doubles. I don't remember who won it for singles. What army did you bring.?

I was playing SW with Arjacks Shield Bros, Twolf cav and some GH/BC's. Mainly just a fun army that I wanted to finish painting, I had no expectations for doing particularly well, but was already up there for doubles so figured I'd stay for singles too.

 More Dakka wrote:
I was playing SW with Arjacks Shield Bros, Twolf cav and some GH/BC's. Mainly just a fun army that I wanted to finish painting, I had no expectations for doing particularly well, but was already up there for doubles so figured I'd stay for singles too.

I think you played my friend in the third round.? Did you play against the blue eldar with 2 hemlocks.? I was playing next to you guys, it looked like you guys were having a good time.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 ColdSadHungry wrote:
Could someone please tell me what the thunderdome list is? I know that DA can get some kind of 2+ re-rollable (can they?) but surely DA aren't top-tier. Surely not DA!!! Is it a daemon thing?

A Thunderdome list is built around 4 Space Wolf HQs on Thunderwolves. I belive this is the one that won NOVA.

Sammael
DA Chaplain on bike
RW Command Squad on Bikes
DA Scouts
DA Tacs in Rhino
Wolf Guard Battle Leader on TWM
3x Iron Priests on TWM
Blood Claws in Rhino
Grey Hunters in Rhino
3x Biker Librarians (Conclave)
Rune Priest Biker

Ah, thanks for letting me know. What a silly list...

Silly but good, evidently.

Dman137 wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
I was playing SW with Arjacks Shield Bros, Twolf cav and some GH/BC's. Mainly just a fun army that I wanted to finish painting, I had no expectations for doing particularly well, but was already up there for doubles so figured I'd stay for singles too.

I think you played my friend in the third round.? Did you play against the blue eldar with 2 hemlocks.? I was playing next to you guys, it looked like you guys were having a good time.

What list did you play?

Iron Priests are an elite choice for SW.

 Vash108 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
I was playing SW with Arjacks Shield Bros, Twolf cav and some GH/BC's. Mainly just a fun army that I wanted to finish painting, I had no expectations for doing particularly well, but was already up there for doubles so figured I'd stay for singles too.

I think you played my friend in the third round.? Did you play against the blue eldar with 2 hemlocks.? I was playing next to you guys, it looked like you guys were having a good time.

What list did you play?

i played with my eldar.

Dman137 wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
I was playing SW with Arjacks Shield Bros, Twolf cav and some GH/BC's. Mainly just a fun army that I wanted to finish painting, I had no expectations for doing particularly well, but was already up there for doubles so figured I'd stay for singles too.

I think you played my friend in the third round.? Did you play against the blue eldar with 2 hemlocks.? I was playing next to you guys, it looked like you guys were having a good time.

What list did you play?

i played with my eldar.

Right, but what was your list?

Dman137 wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
I was playing SW with Arjacks Shield Bros, Twolf cav and some GH/BC's. Mainly just a fun army that I wanted to finish painting, I had no expectations for doing particularly well, but was already up there for doubles so figured I'd stay for singles too.

I think you played my friend in the third round.? Did you play against the blue eldar with 2 hemlocks.? I was playing next to you guys, it looked like you guys were having a good time.

Yup, and we did have a good time, once you've gone full losses in 2 rounds, #3 is really just for a laugh anyways. It was also fairly balanced due to the mission comp (which is really important in good tournaments, even more so than list comp), so we were neck and neck until T4 when I had a couple of bad rolls at crucial junctures (Arjac failing a pinning test after his LR was wrecked being the main culprit). I couldn't do much to the bikes, but the saving grace was that he couldn't touch my LR with anything but his flyers (which were not rolling well), and the Wraithknight wouldn't go near it while it was full of TDAWGs led by Arjac.

Dozer Blades wrote:Iron Priests are an elite choice for SW.

Correct, they're taken as the compulsory units in a Champions of Fenris detachment (1 HQ, 2 Elites)

Heya Dman, you still have not answered my question:

Why am I a GOOB? You still have not told me.

 Vash108 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
I was playing SW with Arjacks Shield Bros, Twolf cav and some GH/BC's. Mainly just a fun army that I wanted to finish painting, I had no expectations for doing particularly well, but was already up there for doubles so figured I'd stay for singles too.

I think you played my friend in the third round.? Did you play against the blue eldar with 2 hemlocks.? I was playing next to you guys, it looked like you guys were having a good time.

What list did you play?

i played with my eldar.

Right, but what was your list?

Farseer
Autrach
Squad of 9bikes/warlock
5 squads of 3 bikes
1 squad of hawks
2 D-cannons
2 hemlocks and a sword and shield WK.

Come on Dmn, answer me: Why am I a GOOB? You still have not said!

Oh and BTW just because Thunderdome is OP Eldar are not automatically removed from being OP.

Dman137 wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
I was playing SW with Arjacks Shield Bros, Twolf cav and some GH/BC's. Mainly just a fun army that I wanted to finish painting, I had no expectations for doing particularly well, but was already up there for doubles so figured I'd stay for singles too.

I think you played my friend in the third round.? Did you play against the blue eldar with 2 hemlocks.? I was playing next to you guys, it looked like you guys were having a good time.

What list did you play?

i played with my eldar.

Right, but what was your list?

Farseer
Autrach
Squad of 9bikes/warlock
5 squads of 3 bikes
1 squad of hawks
2 D-cannons
2 hemlocks and a sword and shield WK.

Transports?

Also assuming that all your bikes have scatter lasers?

Wow what a waac list.

For the love of god dman stahp.

WE GET IT, you dont think eldar are that bad but fail to give us a solid, grammatically correct, readable explanation as to how.

I'm one of those people who runs units nobody uses, and it works, sometimes. But I could be a big enough dick to run Skyhammer, Smashfucker and a CAD with podded AdMech should I so desire, but I don't, because I'm polite and don't like winning alot, I WANT to be in a tight spot in a game, because thats fun, but you chose the easy way out and decided to play Eldar.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Wow what a waac list.

TBF, this is supposed to be a competitive event so its kind of expected that everyone is bringing uber strong lists.



Also why is that no one seems to use the word WAAC correctly? Your not WAAC unless your willing to resort to cheating and ANY MEANS NECESSARY to win.

For clarification:
TFG = jerk/ generally enjoyable to play with.
WAAC= cheater =/= competitive
and there is also the possibility of being both

/rant

I don't think the RW+CoF player had a particularly easy run all the way through as well. A lot of the game as objective scoring, and he had 0 Obsec units, mission 1 alone you had to be controlling objective markers in order to choose objectives to score during your turn.

I watched a bunch of his 4th match (against Eldar, no surprise) and he had very very few units left with a lot of jetbikes still flying around.

Is it a good build? Yes, but is it auto-win? I wouldn't say so. I do still stand by my comment that it exploits the prevalence of Eldar Scatbike armies.

So I'm curious. This is for those who are in the Eldar are OP camp.* Keeping the list that won in mind, with a goal of not being the creepy Eldar player, yet still having a realistic shot to win, what army would you suggest be taken to the tournament? If Eldar keep losing tournaments because people know what they are bringing and ready to counter how do you counter the counter with the above in mind.

*I'm not saying they don't have OP/broken stuff and couldn't use nerfs here and there.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
I was playing SW with Arjacks Shield Bros, Twolf cav and some GH/BC's. Mainly just a fun army that I wanted to finish painting, I had no expectations for doing particularly well, but was already up there for doubles so figured I'd stay for singles too.

I think you played my friend in the third round.? Did you play against the blue eldar with 2 hemlocks.? I was playing next to you guys, it looked like you guys were having a good time.

What list did you play?

i played with my eldar.

Right, but what was your list?

Farseer
Autrach
Squad of 9bikes/warlock
5 squads of 3 bikes
1 squad of hawks
2 D-cannons
2 hemlocks and a sword and shield WK.

Transports?

Also assuming that all your bikes have scatter lasers?

yes all the bikes had scatter lasers, as for the transports I like transports but it depends on the army I'm doing, like my SM has a lot of them as does my guard. Didn't take transports in this army didn't fit the theme I was going for, but I do have wave serpents and falcons just trying out different builds.

Dman137 wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
On a even further note the army's that have won are prime examples of over powered lists from codecs that clearly need to be fixed.

That's a pretty much par for the course in tournaments. What kind of lists did you expect you'd be playing against?

Eldar/DE were abusing a rerollable 2++ in 2013 before it got nerfed out by TO's. There's nothing new under the sun here, except it's DA (which is quite a change).

Up your game homeboy. You're the one choosing to compete in these events. So, don't hate

the only 2++ reroll they nerf is invul, not cover or armour. It's should be all 2++ get a nerf. As for uping my game, I did really well at the tournement, in doubles we were on the final table and that's when we played thunderdome, and in singles I was 3-1. If you can sit there and say that 2++ re-roll is balanced then your out of your mind and clearly haven't played against it. I don't care who I play or if I win or lose I just like playing in a competitive atmosphere. My whole post is about people need some skill and tactics to play, thunderdome requires none of those, it requires no thinking and a small child could win with it. The event was Warmasters Challange


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the Signless wrote:
Dman, did you compete in this tournament, and if you did what place did you get? Also, what was your sportsmanship score?

for doubles we came in 4th out of 28 and in singles I came in 9th out of 32. Both days I got perfect sports scores

As jy2 pointed out, the ITC nerfs all 2+ re-rolls for saving throws, not just for invulnerable saves. The reason re-rolling armour or cover saves isn't broken is that there are many ways to ignore armour and cover. Your profile and event indicate you're from Canada, so I don't know how they follow or modify the ITC rules there. Also, why are you complaining that Eldar can't win tournaments when apparently Eldar can get to the top tables. Again, you lost because Thunderdome is specifically designed to counter Eldar tournament lists. Welcome to the fun and exciting world of rock-paper-scissors-Hammer.

Big Blind Bill wrote:OP, I demand 2 minutes of my life back for reading this thread.

Unfortunately, you have to pay him to get that time back. Send checks or PayPal to Morgoth@rustlingyourjimmies.net

Dman137 wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
So this weekend we had a major event first day was doubles 2000pts (1000pts per player) and the next day was singles 1850. Now it's been made clear that everyone on here thinks eldar are crazy amazing and over powered (sure) even tho there hasn't been one major event since they came out that eldar have won. On a even further note the army's that have won are prime examples of over powered lists from codecs that clearly need to be fixed. But this thread is to speak about the thunder dome list, you can't tell me that eldar are broken but 2++ reroll cover (that dosent need to be cast is just happens (asking as you within 6" of the landspeeder, who also gets the 2++ reroll) while everyone says eldar don't need skill to play they are the easy army to use to win, clearly you haven't seen the thunder dome army in action, I could let a two year old use the army and they would win lol so before you all go on about "ohh fix eldar they are broken blah blah blah" you all need to really open your eyes to the fact that there are even more broken things then eldar. Thunder dome shouldn't be allowed, of its needs a big nerf.

On a side note for those who think eldar are unfun to play against, a eldar army with a Lynx on a sky shield with scattbikes and hornets came 4th overall and took home best sports.

OK we were at the same event I assume (Warmaster's Challenge in Kitchener?). Also, you're talking about the 1850 singles correct? Tau+Eldar took doubles and the RW+CoF Iron Priests took singles.

I'm not sure but I believe it was written specifically to counter Eldar lists. If you played against it with Eldar scat-bike spam you were definitely going to have a bad time. If you can take down the land speeder granting shrouded then the whole thing starts to falter.

One of the main reasons this list did well though is because there was next to no Tau, I assume because scat-bikes + WKs have been totally smashing them as of late. If that list went up against any decent army with markelights you can be sure it would lose shrouded and then a whole bunch of models very quickly.

Also, on a complete aside, was there a best sportsman for doubles? Cause I'm fairly certain the Eldar player didn't bring home best sports in singles

I was talking more so about the singles list, but the doubles list was pretty much the same. No tau blew my mind and no cents blew my mind, I'm not saying the event wasn't fun or anything I'm sure everyone from the looks of it had a great time, expect those guys that left after round 2 on the first day idk what happened I just no they left. As for the counter to it, I feel like when the nefd the 2++ they should have nefd it for all 2++ not just invul (that's why we didn't see any daemon army's) the eldar getting best sports was awesome to me because a few threads back someone said eldar are no fun to play against and that the people using eldar are typically WAAC, but seeing as you were at the event did you feel like any of the eldar players were in fun to play against.? (Curious question)

I get the distinct feeling that you did not take home "Best Sportsman", Dman137. I also have a very hard time, based on your attitude from posting here, that you would receive positive sportsmanship scores.

For a tournament that supposedly is major and features some of the top players in North America, I find it very hard to believe that there were no Tau, Daemons, or Gravcents.

People haven't just been complaining about eldar players since "a couple of threads back". They've been complaiing ever since the new Eldar codex dropped and would have broken 7th edition. Funnily enough, most of those complaints are in threads started by you. All you're doing is giving Eldar players a bad name.

Again, you lost to a list that was specifically designed to counter the type of bog-standard tournament Eldar list you brought, and you're complaining? Seems to me like you just got outplayed.

Many events play by rules that modify the rules of the game, some people call these "house rules" This includes events such as BAO, NOVA, etc.

Most of the events that nerfed invis, did so by nerfing rerolls of ++ saves, which would affect the RW shenanigans list as well.

The game has army lists that are better than others, and what is "best of the best" changes when events begin putting in house rules, it doesn't mean the new thing is the most op thing ever, it means the house rules making something that was the best slightly worse, which often leaves the other "good" lists alone and makes them the new "best" lists.

then of course it comes down to some dice rolls, and often if you have few units it means the dice rolls are more critical to the outcome.