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Even when you've blasted the last remnants of Chaos from your life... It still lingers... plotting

I have my DP on a shelf, facing my bed. He has a long history of just staring at me.
Total badass in 5E, soloed half an IG gunline on multiple occasions due to luck and positioning, and regularly had duels with Yarrick.

Useless in 6E, no army by 7E.

Hey guys I got some great news! It looks like GW has heard our complaints about the codex creep loud and clear and are dialing everything back starting with Tau! In fact it sounds like the Tau codex isn't changing much of anything, just adding a few units and formations. I think we all know what this means...

It means we can expect to continue to enjoy the nice balanced codex we've come to know and love for many years to come!!!

I'm sure you'll all agree this is great news. My friends who play Eldar and Space Marines are always complementing our codex for how nice and balanced it is. They love it! I usually take big 20 man squads of Khorne Berserkers and Possessed backed up by some Mutilators and Warp Talons and just charge them straight across the battlefield! I always get shot to pieces but I find it really helps to Forge the Narrative. We're Chaos afterall - we don't need tactics! Raargh!!! Glory to Chaos!!! Nice and balanced!

Of course I'm sure we can expect some changes. We'll probably get a nice decurion-style formation of some kind. Maybe one that lets our champions reroll their Chaos Boon table result provided we take enough Possessed and Warp Talons. So nice! So balanced! I can hardly wait!!!

Sell your army and play eldar, or ban eldar in your gaming group/refuse to play eldar. those are your 2 options, and I think the choice is easy.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Hey guys I got some great news! It looks like GW has heard our complaints about the codex creep loud and clear and are dialing everything back starting with Tau! In fact it sounds like the Tau codex isn't changing much of anything, just adding a few units and formations. I think we all know what this means...

It means we can expect to continue to enjoy the nice balanced codex we've come to know and love for many years to come!!!

I'm sure you'll all agree this is great news. My friends who play Eldar and Space Marines are always complementing our codex for how nice and balanced it is. They love it! I usually take big 20 man squads of Khorne Berserkers and Possessed backed up by some Mutilators and Warp Talons and just charge them straight across the battlefield! I always get shot to pieces but I find it really helps to Forge the Narrative. We're Chaos afterall - we don't need tactics! Raargh!!! Glory to Chaos!!! Nice and balanced!

Of course I'm sure we can expect some changes. We'll probably get a nice decurion-style formation of some kind. Maybe one that lets our champions reroll their Chaos Boon table result provided we take enough Possessed and Warp Talons. So nice! So balanced! I can hardly wait!!!

What kind of heretical nonsense is this? Tau? Balanced? Blasphemy!

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Hey guys I got some great news! It looks like GW has heard our complaints about the codex creep loud and clear and are dialing everything back starting with Tau! In fact it sounds like the Tau codex isn't changing much of anything, just adding a few units and formations. I think we all know what this means...

It means we can expect to continue to enjoy the nice balanced codex we've come to know and love for many years to come!!!

I'm sure you'll all agree this is great news. My friends who play Eldar and Space Marines are always complementing our codex for how nice and balanced it is. They love it! I usually take big 20 man squads of Khorne Berserkers and Possessed backed up by some Mutilators and Warp Talons and just charge them straight across the battlefield! I always get shot to pieces but I find it really helps to Forge the Narrative. We're Chaos afterall - we don't need tactics! Raargh!!! Glory to Chaos!!! Nice and balanced!

Of course I'm sure we can expect some changes. We'll probably get a nice decurion-style formation of some kind. Maybe one that lets our champions reroll their Chaos Boon table result provided we take enough Possessed and Warp Talons. So nice! So balanced! I can hardly wait!!!

What kind of heretical nonsense is this? Tau? Balanced? Blasphemy!

Sorry, I was referring ton what will happen when Chaos gets the same treatment. No doubt good times will be had by all.

 zedmeister wrote:
Good lord man, clobber them with the FW book. It's 7th edition 40k, you shouldn't be getting whinged at for bringing legitimate units for your force.

Alternatively, if you want to really induce rage (both in your opponents who for some reason hate FW as well as cause rage in yourself when you realise how poor the Codex is compared to a 30k Legion force), buy these:





Then put together a Word Bearers force with allied Dæmons, a Mhara Gal, Val Gorbak, a Diabolist and then rage some more at how GW got it so wrong and FW got it so right in a much simpler manner.

I play word bearers, and love them with a passion, but have never heard of any of that stuff. Where would i find the rules for it?

Wait, the op is a sister of battle when it comes to chaos space marines?

 jreilly89 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
People still complain about FW? After Decurion, Gladius Strike Force and the 7th ed Eldar codex?

Talk about picking your battles, damn.

I hate FW because of it's prices, but GW is quickly making that irrelevant.

I think that's part of the reason 30k is quite popular in Australia and New Zealand, it's pretty much the same price as 40k but with better models.

If you've come to Dakkadakka to voice your grievances against the CSM codex, you've come to the right place.

As mentioned earlier, go with the SM codex.

 Eldarain wrote:
It's just GW helping us Forge the Narrative of being wretched twisted bitter exiles living in a constant hellscape.

Really their best work when you think about it.

Have an exalt!

 Gunnvulcan wrote:


I play word bearers, and love them with a passion, but have never heard of any of that stuff. Where would i find the rules for it?

Those books I linked to are all Forgeworld published and contain all the currently available rules for the Word Bearers Legion for the Horus Heresy Age of Darkness expansion (i.e. 30k!)

Here's some of the models they make for the corrupted Word Bearers legion

Mhara Gal Tainted Dreadnought


Gal Vorbak


Zardu Layak and his blade slaves (can use him as a Diabolist)

I think my all time favourite complaint from Loyalist dogs is having to put with the whining about how OP/broken it is that we can take 2x special weapons on our basic squads, and run 4-5 Plasma guns in squads of Chosen/Havocs...
But Grav is totally balanced and a subtly ingenious new mechanic of course.

Also, I still haven't bought a Helldrake yet as using one would automatically make me a donkeycave WaaC scumbag, and Oblits are apparently better than Grav Cents because they get to tailor their weapons.


I'm pretty sure that if we ever were to get an update, Loyalist players would petition to have all Chaos players banned from events because... "Reasons"

I only run a squad of 2 Obliterators, but I'm thinking of dropping my Havoc squad with 4x autocannons and taking 2x squads of 2x Obliterators. They outshine my havocs every game.

Experiment 626 wrote:
I think my all time favourite complaint from Loyalist dogs is having to put with the whining about how OP/broken it is that we can take 2x special weapons on our basic squads, and run 4-5 Plasma guns in squads of Chosen/Havocs...
But Grav is totally balanced and a subtly ingenious new mechanic of course.

Also, I still haven't bought a Helldrake yet as using one would automatically make me a donkeycave WaaC scumbag, and Oblits are apparently better than Grav Cents because they get to tailor their weapons.


I'm pretty sure that if we ever were to get an update, Loyalist players would petition to have all Chaos players banned from events because... "Reasons"

Oh god, back when I still used my CSM, I would get no end of BS from players about how I can take pistols AND CCW's in my troop choices.

Like, wtf...

A tactical marine equivalent with an extra attack in CC! That's scary!

Literally no one plays CSM in my LGS. The one guy who did (who was just bad at the game, not because he played CSM) quit and went with Tau. I play Daemons and I'm literally one of the only Chaos players there.

I wish CSM were on par with SM, I really do. They're such a cool looking army.

 kronk wrote:
I only run a squad of 2 Obliterators, but I'm thinking of dropping my Havoc squad with 4x autocannons and taking 2x squads of 2x Obliterators. They outshine my havocs every game.

Those 4x Obliterators aren't the equivalent of 1 squad of Havocs tho, they are the equivalent of almost 3, with less wounds than just 1. IMO Oblits are ALWAYS over costed for their role, something can always achieve what they did for less points.

I personally prefer Preds. Generally all with Las and I find my auto cannons elsewhere. That being said it's a fairly fluffy list so I'm taking models outside of HS that CAN take AC's so maybe it's not the best option.

Oblits can deep strike which instantly makes them more adaptable than Havocs. Far too often the Dark Angels players one-shots half the Havoc team with a Plasma Cannon despite them getting a 4+ cover save. Or someone sends Ignores Cover snipers onto the field and picks them off. Or the usual volume of fire, drop pods, or psyker shenanigans.

Deep striking Havocs in Terminator armor onto objectives where they can fire upon whatever is still alive while being fairly hard to remove is pretty good for the point value. The Havocs obviously win in terms of firepower but the Oblit still has his uses and surpasses Tactical Terminators in every way.

 Arkaine wrote:
Oblits can deep strike which instantly makes them more adaptable than Havocs. Far too often the Dark Angels players one-shots half the Havoc team with a Plasma Cannon despite them getting a 4+ cover save. Or someone sends Ignores Cover snipers onto the field and picks them off. Or the usual volume of fire, drop pods, or psyker shenanigans.

Deep striking Havocs in Terminator armor onto objectives where they can fire upon whatever is still alive while being fairly hard to remove is pretty good for the point value. The Havocs obviously win in terms of firepower but the Oblit still has his uses and surpasses Tactical Terminators in every way.

The bigger issues is that both are overcosted and crippled by limited weapon options and/or rules limitations.

On the other hand, Loyalists get cheaper Devastators with a much wider & hugely more effective range of guns, while Cents trump Oblits so hard it isn't even funny... Yet still, Loyalist players & whine endlessly that Oblits are somehow still these god tier units as if we're still playing 4th edition.

Would you guys recommend Oblits in units of 2 or 3? I may give them another try. I don't like that they pay so much for the versatility - sure, the games where your opponent brought no mech they can bring out the flamers or whatever, and vice versa - except then they are just overcosted AI units. And when they don't get to do this they are overcosted AT, a squad of 3 of these costs as much as a Land Raider. Our Land Raider being an overcosted version of the loyalist Land Raider, which is overcosted itself. They are overcosted whatever role they get, I think it's a testament to our actual options that they are so important to CSM.

I usually bring Oblits in groups of 1. Solo oblit can deep strike anywhere and be annoying.

If you take other Heavy Supports and don't have room, as will happen at higher point values, then lump them into groups of 2 or 3 depending on available points and commitment to anti-armor. While not as deadly as Havocs, they have proven themselves far more useful and versatile. In short, they're RELIABLE and in a game about randomness that's a godsend.

My unit of two always seems like enough to kill that one thing I need it to kill/hurt/distract and would sometimes survive long enough to kill/hurt a second thing as a bonus.

 Arkaine wrote:
I usually bring Oblits in groups of 1. Solo oblit can deep strike anywhere and be annoying.

Plus, if you drop 2 units of 1 in the same area, they can't both die from the same squad in one turn. Definitely something to be said for that.

Experiment 626 wrote:
I think my all time favourite complaint from Loyalist dogs is having to put with the whining about how OP/broken it is that we can take 2x special weapons on our basic squads, and run 4-5 Plasma guns in squads of Chosen/Havocs...
But Grav is totally balanced and a subtly ingenious new mechanic of course.

Also, I still haven't bought a Helldrake yet as using one would automatically make me a donkeycave WaaC scumbag, and Oblits are apparently better than Grav Cents because they get to tailor their weapons.


I'm pretty sure that if we ever were to get an update, Loyalist players would petition to have all Chaos players banned from events because... "Reasons"

Uuuuh, who is complaining about Havocs, Chosen, and Obliterators?

Granted, I'm one of those people that complains about being able to get two Special Weapons. If Tacticals could do that, I wouldn't bring them as a Sternguard squad every game.
As for the Vanilla CSM's being able to get CCW's, it's cute but that's it. Were they a single point, I'd do it for them and Grey Hunters (thanks for that, GW). Carcharodons have the right idea for the price, but seeing that I cannot get a second Melta Gun, I'm back to using Bikers that got their Rage.

There's things wrong in both codices, but at least Loyalists can help you work out those issues. CSM's simply punish you for attempting.

I bought 2 DV sets so I have a small Chaos force as well. Trust me guys, it's GW, they know OP gak makes models sell more, so we should at least get some formations in the next dex to make us fairly balanced.

Is it bad that this whole thread is making me feel guilty for playing space marines?

 War Kitten wrote:
Is it bad that this whole thread is making me feel guilty for playing space marines?

Yes, it's how chaos gets new recruits.

 War Kitten wrote:
Is it bad that this whole thread is making me feel guilty for playing space marines?

It's understandable, but you probably shouldn't if you aren't one of the ones rubbing stuff in their face.

Got one of my FLGS mates that plays...Eldar that complains when i beat him with my KDK...

For him KDK is easely amongst the top 4 of the strongest armies with Crons, Taus and Marines...

And each time i talk about CSM and gak, i get the "...dude, you fething play KDK, stop complaining..." comment...

Coming from a guy that plays FW Corsairs or 3x10 Scatter bikes, thats fething rich.

 War Kitten wrote:
Is it bad that this whole thread is making me feel guilty for playing space marines?

Yes. Pity not the traitors, Battle Brother. They sold their souls to Chaos for glory and aesthetics. But they found the powers granted by the Warp Gods wanting. Smite them with the Wrath of the Emperor! Our rerollable Grav and invisible Centurions shall guide us to final victory over the heretics!