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If snipers were about as rare as they are in Warzone, i would be fine with this. Theyre not though.

Tau can spam the crap out of snipers. Ever actually seen our Sniper Drone teams? Theyre pretty good as they are since theyre 48" rapid fire Snipers at BS5, theyre just rare because they used to be hard to squeeze in a list due to slot limitations...thats gone with formations anew.
Did i mention theyre dirt cheap? lol

If it was basically impossible to run more than say 5 snipers in a list, i'd be fine with it. 5 being an arm and a leg to do it too.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
If snipers were about as rare as they are in Warzone, i would be fine with this. Theyre not though.

Tau can spam the crap out of snipers. Ever actually seen our Sniper Drone teams? Theyre pretty good as they are since theyre 48" rapid fire Snipers at BS5, theyre just rare because they used to be hard to squeeze in a list due to slot limitations...thats gone with formations anew.
Did i mention theyre dirt cheap? lol

If it was basically impossible to run more than say 5 snipers in a list, i'd be fine with it. 5 being an arm and a leg to do it too.

I agree any kind of ID.. even the d3 wounds I mentioned might be too strong.

However, they definitely still need work, pinning should be a thing, LOS should be reduced (its to easy I think currently, with any weapon), and I think instead of 6s to wound rend, 6s to hit auto wound at ap2. Many weapons already act like this, so it is not a new concept.

Why not normal rules + ID against Infantry, Beasts and Cavalry. 1d3 wounds against any other unit type. 10pts per weapon?

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
a 5 point weapon can ... I do not see the problem with 1 unit can attach ID to 1 round of shots for each shooting phase of yours.

You really think 5+ ID shots from a single unit is okay? I would probably never take tacticals again. I would just take sniper scouts. 5 ID shots for 25 points is a steal. Just no. I am sorry, but this is just a bad idea. This change would make things way too easy to abuse.

I would say maybe ignore cover, but not ID. MCs are rare enough as it is, and just about every rulebook has had all it's SC stripped of EW. Alongside that, a lot of ID weapons have gone away as well.

Sniper rules should change but not ID.

Increased BS should decrease the roll required for precision shots as well as decrease the cover save - I mean you did just pinpoint a shot on someone from a fair distance. They're cover should be mitigated in some way.
-BS4 Snipers should have precision shots on a 6.
-BS 5 Snipers should have ps on a 5. - increased BS should decrease the roll required for precision shots - and - cover saves are lowered by 1
-BS6+ precision shots on a 4+ and cover saves are lowered by 2

Sniper wounds on a 6 are AP 2 - fine

Also add -
CANNOT LOOKOUT SIR when hit with sniper weapons or units with the sniper rule in shooting
&
CANNOT TAKE JINK SAVES when hit with sniper weapons or units with the sniper rule in shooting

I'm serious about this. If a sniper pinpoints a shot on you. From a great distance. In a loud and hectic battle field. YOU SHOULD NOT GET to dodge that by jinking or have an underling miraculously see the incoming shot and jump to save you.

Well, "realistically," the battles in a 40K game take place on a time scale of maybe a minute at most. Snipers aren't going to get a pinpoint shot on anybody in a turn that lasts 10 seconds or so.

They're not guided missiles; they're just more accurate rifles.

Maybe no Jink against a Precision Shot, maybe - remember what Jink represents. It's not "I see the bullet coming and step out of the way" - that's the domain of freakishly superhuman reflexes like a Wytch's Dodge. Jink represents a vehicle juking and jiving so much that you just shot at where it was a second ago, so it would mean that you *thought* you had a precision shot, but didn't.

No "Look Out, Sir", or more properly, probably a penalty to it makes more sense. (Remember, that's not representing seeing the bullet and jumping in the way. If it did, you couldn't use it against a common lasgun, eh? It represents seeing the muzzle of the gun, or seeing the shooter aiming...)

It should remain as is since 40k doesn't know a damn thing about what a sniper is and does.

If i had to change anything they should all already have precision shots (old one where they just pick) on 6s ignore cover (since they just made an amazing shot) then on 6s ignore armor ( since they hit a hella weak point to get the wound)
it should also cause pinning checks with penalties = to the number of wounds caused by it. (which is how at least i think pinning could be fixed in 40k because otherwise its kinda useless)

Okay. To make Snipers Decent, here are my thoughts. We've tested them in our group and they don't seem to be game breaking such as it is.

Sniper Gets Precision Shots, Rending, pinning etc as normal.

High Velocity Shot: Precision Shot results force Look Out Sir rolls to be made with a -3 penalty on roll a D6 to a maximum of 6+, regardless of Character Type. (Basically 5+ for ICs, 6+ for characters and nothing for regular joes)

Anti Material Round (or Charge, your fluff may vary): 10 point upgrade to any Sergeant type model with the sniper special rule per unit, if no Sergeant exists, nominate one model with the sniper special rule in the unit and mark this model accordingly.
Profile change to Heavy 1, Model gains monster hunter and fleshbane special rules. Due to the extreme weight of the high powered rounds. (Or extra power cells needed to fuel such shots) the model becomes encumbered, and may not run or make sweeping advances in assault.

Where are they?!: Due to the very nature of a sniper on the battlefield, even the most battle hardend commander respects the impact they have on morale.
Models with the sniper special rule firing from Cover force a pinning check subtracting the number of Unsaved Wounds from their shooting phase from the leadership of the target unit.

Also toying with instead forcing the use of the lowest unmodified leadership instead of the highest, Havent tested it yet though.

I would say pinning is all that is needed to make sniper rifles good. You could even say they cause pinning to bikes and jet bikes even though bikes and jet bikes normally can't be pinned. This would give a way to counter a very big part of the current meta and serve to nerf those units without actually nerfing them.

Easy fix for this solution, just use different wording:

"To Wound rolls of 6 made with this weapon count as Strength 6 for the purposes of Instant Death."

or...

"To Wound rolls of 6 made with this weapon have Instant Death (Infantry)."

2nd one, otherwise most things you'd want to ID are not getting ID'd with str 6

No matter how you slice it, ID on sniper rifles, a weapon that is a 1 to 2 point upgrade at max, is too much. Doesn't matter if it only works on 6's. Especially since Sniper rifles tend to be easily spammable. Pinning on the other hand would be appropriate and not game breaking, It still wouldn't be game breaking for it to work on bikes and jetbikes even though it normally can't. It would provide a way to potentially counter those units in a way.

Pinning on Sniper weapons don't make much sense either.

Hiding from sniper fire in real life is always when the target wasn't expecting to be fired upon.

A game of 40k is in an active battle. Why would a sniper needle pin a unit when a literal ton of ordnance does not?

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Pinning on Sniper weapons don't make much sense either.

Hiding from sniper fire in real life is always when the target wasn't expecting to be fired upon.

A game of 40k is in an active battle. Why would a sniper needle pin a unit when a literal ton of ordnance does not?

to be fair i think ordnance should do that as well as being concussive.

Ordnance is another one of those rules that is unusually weak for what it is. Ordnance should cause additional crap, such as pinning or denying FNP even though its not ID'ing you (THAT HURT...didnt kill me but THAT HURT type mentality) or Concussive or Strikedown or .. or ... or ... yeah i could go on lol

Also sniper fire irl does pin squads down. Theres a reason the military will use an expensive as hell airstrike to deal with a sniper - they can pick off tons of people that arent hiding out of sight once they start firing. Not all snipers are the one shot assassins, though that is a large bulk of their work.

Also i would like to point out that snipers got nerfed in 7th. Lot of people still saying they have pinning and rending - they dont. Pinning is flatout not there and they are now "ap2 on a 6" not rending. Yes, it makes a difference, because rending still causes D3 extra pen damage against a vehicle. Snipers can only glance AV10 in 7th, while in 6th they could glance AV12. (Str4 against vehicles now, was Str3 but had D3 extra on a 6 cause Rending). Really dont know why they nerfed snipers, not like they were common anyway. Only abuse i could see was in the form of Kroot spam, which had its own problems to kinda counter that benefit.

I think giving Ordinance Pinning and Concussive would be good, except that concussive is applied on every model hit, not on wounds (just for Ordinance, not proposing a Concussive rules change).