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boiler in child's room? that is a violation of so many codes there, there is no reason for anyone to be in a child's room.
also why would a plumber be called for a gas leak ?
Not in the UK if it meets regulations (or it could be backing onto pipes for example).
Yeah a lot of plumbers deal with both gas and water in the UK if they are registered (replace plumber with gas person if that helps)
But regardless it was meant as an example I'm sure there are plenty of other things that could happen (water leak for example). Admittedly it sounds suspicious but I don't know how normal it is in the US to walk round with a loaded hand gun in the handbag.
Both legal and gaining in popularity as many Americans are learning that protecting yourself is your responsibility and no one elses. There are classes and registration to be filed to carry, but if she had it in her purse legally, then she was good to go. Even if she didn't, as soon as she walked in her house she became legal again, as long as she doesn't admit she was carrying it outside of the house.
unless it was in her Car Trunk? or such.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
As said before, there is zero reason for anyone to be in a childs room in the middle of the night. Not sure if Oregon has a Castle Law, but in most states, this would result in zero liability or charges on the homeowner/mother.
I'm assuming other than the child as otherwise it's a bit of an oxymoron
OK thanks for update. Seems a bit weird that basically you have to deal with a burglary yourself unless things get ugly but I makes more sense why these instances happen.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
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As said before, there is zero reason for anyone to be in a childs room in the middle of the night. Not sure if Oregon has a Castle Law, but in most states, this would result in zero liability or charges on the homeowner/mother.
I'm assuming other than the child as otherwise it's a bit of an oxymoron
OK thanks for update. Seems a bit weird that basically you have to deal with a burglary yourself unless things get ugly but I makes more sense why these instances happen.
not really when you consider you may have to first get to a phone, while holding the intruder at bay, then have to dial while keeping your attention on the intruder, then talk to the dispatcher(911) while keeping your eye on the intruder and then wait for anyone to show up while still watching the intruder. so many instances there where a desperate criminal will try anything to get away, better to shoot then forget the intruder then to risk your own life following those other steps.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
Kilkrazy wrote: If it's Alzheimers, or perhaps a mental illness, I'm sorry to say that it's just hard cheese for the guy. I wouldn't be glad to have shot him when I found out, but if I'm scared and protecting my child(ren) in the middle of the night against a hidden intruder who suddenly appears I'm not going to hang around for a health check.
So shoot first and ask questions later? Man, you should be a cop. You'll make Police Chief in no time.
Kilkrazy wrote: If it's Alzheimers, or perhaps a mental illness, I'm sorry to say that it's just hard cheese for the guy. I wouldn't be glad to have shot him when I found out, but if I'm scared and protecting my child(ren) in the middle of the night against a hidden intruder who suddenly appears I'm not going to hang around for a health check.
So shoot first and ask questions later? Man, you should be a cop. You'll make Police Chief in no time.
So you expected the woman to put the lives of her and her children at risk for the sake a guy hiding in her kid's bedroom at midnight?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/27 15:35:20
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Kilkrazy wrote: If it's Alzheimers, or perhaps a mental illness, I'm sorry to say that it's just hard cheese for the guy. I wouldn't be glad to have shot him when I found out, but if I'm scared and protecting my child(ren) in the middle of the night against a hidden intruder who suddenly appears I'm not going to hang around for a health check.
So shoot first and ask questions later? Man, you should be a cop. You'll make Police Chief in no time.
if you have a gun and pull it out you better use it, one thing I've always said is don't pull out a gun unless you intend to use it, or you will lose it. better to shoot first then be shot first, ask Greedo he'd agree
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
No calling the police, no threatening aim gun til police arrive nothing just go in and shoot.
Also if she is just getting home at 1am with 2 kids while walking around with a gun something is up. I say give it a week and find out she just murdered this guy.
Kinda buying into this idea, myself...
If armed robbers burst into your house, then by all means start shooting back at them...
But if you come across a robber with your TV under his arm, and you're the one pointing the gun, is shooting justified? For a TV or something? I honestly don't know. Not every situation allows you to phone 999 and let the police handle it, but, until the facts come out, who knows...
It is murder if you come home, find an unarmed robber attempting to flee with your stuff and shoot him, yes. anyone attempting to disengage, who has not shown you they are danger could bite you if you kill them. Intruder in childs bedroom, assuming the news report is how the situation played out, is not murder it is self defense or defense of ones children. The possibilities of what could have happened if she had not noticed the intruder, far outweight the hypotheticals you could be coming up with IMO.
I understand and appreciate the argument that for some Americans in remote locations, the nearest police station could be hours away, and who wants to be pointing a gun at an intruder for 2-3 hours? Not me...
I think this is a grey area, here...
I'm not sure we agree on grey area as the story is reported. I rarely believe the media, I'm just talking based on information on hand. But I would like to welcome your take on how you would have handled it. Keep in mind this is as a woman with 2 children, and a fully grown man here. You are currently in the same room as him, and just discovered him. He clearly is not there to bring you a dump truck of money and sweep you away from your mundane life as a mother. I understand attitudes in Canada and America vary greatly in regards to guns, so lets not make this a gun debate, but a what would you do kinda hypothetical.
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Kilkrazy wrote: I would unhesitatingly shoot someone I found hiding in my daughter's bedroom at 1 o'clock on a Sunday morning, especially if he was a man and I was a woman and had young children in tow.
Seriously though, I would have thought 'challenging' the situation first would have been safer and fairer. Otherwise there could be a number of situations that result in an accidental fatality. For example
Mother and children go out;
Father downstairs smells gas
Calls plumber
Plumber needs to check boiler in childs room
Mother returns but doesn't speak to husband (fell asleep on the sofa whilst watching football)
Mother goes upstairs and shoots the plumber.
There's always a number of possibilities and if you are suspicious then the best option is to leave the house and call the police. If the other person had a weapon as well then the situation could get worse pretty quickly and you are putting your children in even more harms way. It's not about liberalism it's about risk. By pulling the gun you are taking the risk that the other doesn't have a gun, or are a worse shot. If either of these are true (quite possible if it is a career criminal say) then you can actually make the situation much worse.
there wouldnt be a boiler in the kids rooms. There's basically no reason anyone there for a gas, plumbing or HVAC emergency would need to be in those rooms. Even if there were, the mother would probably have noticed a contractors truck sitting in the driveway. Also, having a contractor like that come out in the middle of the night would not be something you fail to inform a spouse about, thats likely to be a huge bill with a fair degree if panic and conversation, particularly if it is urgent enough to get someone out sunday night/early AM monday.
Im general, if a strange person is in your home in the middle of the night, in a childs bedroom, that will usually satisfy castle doctrine statutes for being in fear of imminent harm for yourself or another.
Now, if it turns out the mother shot the intrider in the back while he was fleeing, or something similar, that would be a different issue, but that doesnt appear to be the case.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
This reminds me of what happened a couple weeks ago. Me and the wife where watching a movie around 2:30 am, two guys walked into my house walked through the mud room and into the hall.
The just looked at us for a couple seconds and I said hello can I help you, they just said this isnt 349 is it. I just said no thats next door like a 10 min walk. I said I can drive ya if ya need it, they said no thank and said srry and left. Couple days later I seen them at my neighbors house turns out it was his brother and his.... Boyfriend? Partner? I am not upto date on the current lingo.
Here how it plays out in other places men walk in people yell shoot people die. We all win.
But this story is also why I make sure my health care coverage is good and I have a hand gun when I visit the states. To protect myself from the medical care system and people protecting themselves with guns.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/27 15:46:07
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Entirety of commentary in first post is a 5 word sentence fragment with no capitalization.
No calling the police, no threatening aim gun til police arrive nothing just go in and shoot.
Also if she is just getting home at 1am with 2 kids while walking around with a gun something is up. I say give it a week and find out she just murdered this guy.
Kinda buying into this idea, myself...
If armed robbers burst into your house, then by all means start shooting back at them...
But if you come across a robber with your TV under his arm, and you're the one pointing the gun, is shooting justified? For a TV or something? I honestly don't know. Not every situation allows you to phone 999 and let the police handle it, but, until the facts come out, who knows...
It is murder if you come home, find an unarmed robber attempting to flee with your stuff and shoot him, yes. anyone attempting to disengage, who has not shown you they are danger could bite you if you kill them. Intruder in childs bedroom, assuming the news report is how the situation played out, is not murder it is self defense or defense of ones children. The possibilities of what could have happened if she had not noticed the intruder, far outweight the hypotheticals you could be coming up with IMO.
I understand and appreciate the argument that for some Americans in remote locations, the nearest police station could be hours away, and who wants to be pointing a gun at an intruder for 2-3 hours? Not me...
I think this is a grey area, here...
I'm not sure we agree on grey area as the story is reported. I rarely believe the media, I'm just talking based on information on hand. But I would like to welcome your take on how you would have handled it. Keep in mind this is as a woman with 2 children, and a fully grown man here. You are currently in the same room as him, and just discovered him. He clearly is not there to bring you a dump truck of money and sweep you away from your mundane life as a mother. I understand attitudes in Canada and America vary greatly in regards to guns, so lets not make this a gun debate, but a what would you do kinda hypothetical.
I'm not Canadian!
I don't if I should be pleased or insulted by that!!!
Anyway, to answer you're question, it's tricky, because we don't know the facts, but my gut instinct tells me that there is more to this story...
The woman could have ordered him out the house, locked the doors/windows, and phoned the police. But like I said, every situation is different...
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Theres a difference between openly walking in through the front door of the wrong house, and being found in a childs bedroom when its clear nobody was home when you entered. We are really stretching credulity here trying to find ways to make something like this look innocent. Is it possible? Sure. But unlikely in the extreme, and with potentially dire consequences for being wrong.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/27 15:50:45
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
OgreChubbs wrote: This reminds me of what happened a couple weeks ago. Me and the wife where watching a movie around 2:30 am, two guys walked into my house walked through the mud room and into the hall.
The just looked at us for a couple seconds and I said hello can I help you, they just said this isnt 349 is it. I just said no thats next door like a 10 min walk. I said I can drive ya if ya need it, they said no thank and said srry and left. Couple days later I seen them at my neighbors house turns out it was his brother and his.... Boyfriend? Partner? I am not upto date on the current lingo.
Here how it plays out in other places men walk in people yell shoot people die. We all win.
But this story is also why I make sure my health care coverage is good and I have a hand gun when I visit the states. To protect myself from the medical care system and people protecting themselves with guns.
so the guy has never been to his brothers house? and when my brother or folks come to visit they always knock and/or announce(if I told them come in when they get here) themselves.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/27 15:55:07
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
A Town Called Malus wrote: I'm mostly curious as to where they were that meant that a 5 and 10 year old were out until 1:45 in the morning.
Freedom to be where you want when you want(America) means not having to explain these things. Although I as a parent rarely keep my kids out that late, we have come home from long drives to family and friends around midnight-1AMish. Asking that question is akin to victim blaming.
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problem is you would think this would not be an argumentative topic, its a story of a woman who protected her and her kids from an intruder, unless you are just trolling for the fun of it?
A Town Called Malus wrote: I'm mostly curious as to where they were that meant that a 5 and 10 year old were out until 1:45 in the morning.
coming home from a long drive? I remember when I was a kid me and my brothers and my folks would get in at all hours of the night from a drive to the beach and/or family.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
No calling the police, no threatening aim gun til police arrive nothing just go in and shoot.
Also if she is just getting home at 1am with 2 kids while walking around with a gun something is up. I say give it a week and find out she just murdered this guy.
Kinda buying into this idea, myself...
If armed robbers burst into your house, then by all means start shooting back at them...
But if you come across a robber with your TV under his arm, and you're the one pointing the gun, is shooting justified? For a TV or something? I honestly don't know. Not every situation allows you to phone 999 and let the police handle it, but, until the facts come out, who knows...
It is murder if you come home, find an unarmed robber attempting to flee with your stuff and shoot him, yes. anyone attempting to disengage, who has not shown you they are danger could bite you if you kill them. Intruder in childs bedroom, assuming the news report is how the situation played out, is not murder it is self defense or defense of ones children. The possibilities of what could have happened if she had not noticed the intruder, far outweight the hypotheticals you could be coming up with IMO.
I understand and appreciate the argument that for some Americans in remote locations, the nearest police station could be hours away, and who wants to be pointing a gun at an intruder for 2-3 hours? Not me...
I think this is a grey area, here...
I'm not sure we agree on grey area as the story is reported. I rarely believe the media, I'm just talking based on information on hand. But I would like to welcome your take on how you would have handled it. Keep in mind this is as a woman with 2 children, and a fully grown man here. You are currently in the same room as him, and just discovered him. He clearly is not there to bring you a dump truck of money and sweep you away from your mundane life as a mother. I understand attitudes in Canada and America vary greatly in regards to guns, so lets not make this a gun debate, but a what would you do kinda hypothetical.
I'm not Canadian!
I don't if I should be pleased or insulted by that!!!
Anyway, to answer you're question, it's tricky, because we don't know the facts, but my gut instinct tells me that there is more to this story...
The woman could have ordered him out the house, locked the doors/windows, and phoned the police. But like I said, every situation is different...
Firstly apologies. Although I care deeply for our northern neighbors, I totally looked at the wrong name and flag and meant no offense.
Secondly, while those were all options criminals don't like to follow instructions from the people they are trying to commit crimes against anymore than they like to follow the law. The problem with an armed society is that the criminals have guns as well. I pretty much assume everyone I talk to outside of work is armed. Keeps me polite.
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Reading the story, the cops got there at 01:45. The story does not say what time she capped the intruder or what time she called the cops or how long it took them to get there.
May have been a pretty quick process, may not have been. Generally if you say you've shot someone most cops will hustle to get to the scene. But it may have taken a few minutes, and for all we know the mother may not have called the cops right away. She may have checked the intruder, puked her guts out after having taken a life, seen to her upset kids, calmed down enough to call the cops...
We don't know.
But regardless, why she was out late doesn't matter. Plenty of poor reasons, plenty of good reasons, and all of them are immaterial to the fact that she came home and found some crap bag in her kid's room.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
OgreChubbs wrote: This reminds me of what happened a couple weeks ago. Me and the wife where watching a movie around 2:30 am, two guys walked into my house walked through the mud room and into the hall.
The just looked at us for a couple seconds and I said hello can I help you, they just said this isnt 349 is it. I just said no thats next door like a 10 min walk. I said I can drive ya if ya need it, they said no thank and said srry and left. Couple days later I seen them at my neighbors house turns out it was his brother and his.... Boyfriend? Partner? I am not upto date on the current lingo.
Here how it plays out in other places men walk in people yell shoot people die. We all win.
But this story is also why I make sure my health care coverage is good and I have a hand gun when I visit the states. To protect myself from the medical care system and people protecting themselves with guns.
so the guy has never been to his brothers house? and when my brother or folks come to visit they always knock and/or announce(if I told them come in when they get here) themselves.
You've never lived in the country have you? He said next door was a 10 minute walk. Heck, many people in my state who live in the country don't lock their doors and would react the same way and most of them have guns all over the house.
CptJake wrote: Reading the story, the cops got there at 01:45. The story does not say what time she capped the intruder or what time she called the cops or how long it took them to get there.
May have been a pretty quick process, may not have been. Generally if you say you've shot someone most cops will hustle to get to the scene. But it may have taken a few minutes, and for all we know the mother may not have called the cops right away. She may have checked the intruder, puked her guts out after having taken a life, seen to her upset kids, calmed down enough to call the cops...
We don't know.
But regardless, why she was out late doesn't matter. Plenty of poor reasons, plenty of good reasons, and all of them are immaterial to the fact that she came home and found some crap bag in her kid's room.
Well said.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/27 16:03:29
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
Kilkrazy wrote: If it's Alzheimers, or perhaps a mental illness, I'm sorry to say that it's just hard cheese for the guy. I wouldn't be glad to have shot him when I found out, but if I'm scared and protecting my child(ren) in the middle of the night against a hidden intruder who suddenly appears I'm not going to hang around for a health check.
So shoot first and ask questions later? Man, you should be a cop. You'll make Police Chief in no time.
OgreChubbs wrote: This reminds me of what happened a couple weeks ago. Me and the wife where watching a movie around 2:30 am, two guys walked into my house walked through the mud room and into the hall.
The just looked at us for a couple seconds and I said hello can I help you, they just said this isnt 349 is it. I just said no thats next door like a 10 min walk. I said I can drive ya if ya need it, they said no thank and said srry and left. Couple days later I seen them at my neighbors house turns out it was his brother and his.... Boyfriend? Partner? I am not upto date on the current lingo.
Here how it plays out in other places men walk in people yell shoot people die. We all win.
But this story is also why I make sure my health care coverage is good and I have a hand gun when I visit the states. To protect myself from the medical care system and people protecting themselves with guns.
so the guy has never been to his brothers house? and when my brother or folks come to visit they always knock and/or announce(if I told them come in when they get here) themselves.
You've never lived in the country have you? He said next door was a 10 minute walk. Heck, many people in my state who live in the country don't lock their doors and would react the same way and most of them have guns all over the house.
On topic.
There are always options when presented with perceived imminent danger. I can easily see this going either way when presented with coming home, with two kids, and a suspected intruder. The problem with a gun involved is what would she have done absent a gun? A reasonable and prudent person would have left the premises and called the police; the police would have arrived and checked the home. She possessed a gun, presumably on her person (I would hate to think that she retrieved the weapon from another room when she could have just left and called the police), and reacted violently. Not being in her situation, I can respect her decision with the information presented. But I also can't help but think how else it could have been resolved; especially in light of how it possibly could have gone should the person not have been an actual intruder:
1: you don't live in places like California even out in the boonies people do not leave their doors unlocked, too many criminals and such. also a 10 minute walk is not far. its like a farm stead away and I repeat I'd be more worried about someone confusing a house with his brothers house, especially in the country, where it is a 10 minute walk to the next house, sorry but story sounds fishy.
2: someone is in my kids room when I get home, the cops won't get there fast enough to save the intruder, nor will I be willing to allow the intruder the opportunity to pull out his weapon either. someone breaks into your house always expect them to be armed especially here in California with the strictest gun laws.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
Creep found hiding in kids closet when mom comes home and people try claiming it might have been a plumber and question why she was out with the kids at that time of night.
Dakka OT never fails to impress...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/27 16:15:57
Even though I am generally against firearms, this instance appears to be a cut and dry good use of one. That said, more information is always a good thing.
Sounds like an extremely good shoot legally. Now if after she and the kids ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti that might be a little OT, because liver is just gross. I'll be frank. If, when the kids were small, we had come in and there was someone in their room I would have emptied the mag the moment I saw movement. Odds are it would hav ebeen our stalker. Now if I come in and there's a man in the room then the daughter has some serious explaining to do (after I've pitched him out the window).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Article is sketchy on details, but he might have been robbing the place, heard them come back, dived into a cupboard to hide...
Still, I understand why the woman opened fire, though...
In many states thats more than enough. Intruder in house is specifically written into the law in multiple jurisdictions. Mother with kids, even a California DA wouldn't prosecute that.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/27 16:32:02
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curran12 wrote: Even though I am generally against firearms, this instance appears to be a cut and dry good use of one. That said, more information is always a good thing.
Yep, warp storm imminent. Nurgle is gonna appear if we keep actually agreeing. I literally agree with everything you say after the word firearms.
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