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That's absurd. A considerable part of the whole setting is only mentioned in one source, from characters and weapons to entire planets.

 Ashiraya wrote:
That's absurd. A considerable part of the whole setting is only mentioned in one source, from characters and weapons to entire planets.

Sure, one source maybe. But not only ever once in the entirety of a book.

Why would they need to repeat themselves?

In case you are interested

 Ashiraya wrote:
Why would they need to repeat themselves?

Who says it needs to be a repeat? Like I said, any variation of phrasing that effectively states "Most CSM are VoTLW" is fine.

I mean you would think that would be something in Traitor Legions or CSM, right? So why is it just in IA13?

Back on topic:

Is there anymore info on how Guilliman in revived/woken up?

Magister wrote:



Back on topic:

Is there anymore info on how Guilliman in revived/woken up?

Yvraine and Cawl. That's all we know.

 Kanluwen wrote:
So why is it just in IA13?

I don't know, and frankly, it's irrelevant. The words are there. Take them or leave them, but don't make up excuses for it - if you are going to deny it, then be frank and admit that you believe your own canon over FW's.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Magister wrote:



Back on topic:

Very well.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
So why is it just in IA13?

I don't know, and frankly, it's irrelevant. The words are there. Take them or leave them, but don't make up excuses for it - if you are going to deny it, then be frank and admit that you believe your own canon over FW's.

All I'm asking for is a single collaborating source.

I'm not the one who is trying to build up some kind of canon to try to make regular CSM better than a Primarch.


Additionally? It's worth noting that if we really were to play the numbers game, that whole "most CSM are VotLW" would likely be negated by the number of traitor Astartes/renegades who have turned since the Heresy.

 Kanluwen wrote:


I'm not the one who is trying to build up some kind of canon to try to make regular CSM better than a Primarch.

CSM will not, ever, be the match of a primarch. They are more experienced than a loyalist primarch who has spent most of his life in stasis, yes, but that is not the same thing.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:


I'm not the one who is trying to build up some kind of canon to try to make regular CSM better than a Primarch.

CSM will not, ever, be the match of a primarch. They are more experienced than a loyalist primarch who has spent most of his life in stasis, yes, but that is not the same thing.

Are they really though?

They have more time alive and active, that doesn't mean it is all spent in combat or anything like that.

Still more than if you are sitting in stasis.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Still more than if you are sitting in stasis.

Is it really though, if you're stuck in the Warp doing nothing?

Why would they sit in the Warp and do nothing? Raiding the Imperium, fighting Xenos, infighting in the Eye...

Could also be propaganda and lies, that's not the purview of the Imperium

there is no way CSM are on the level of a primarch, they might have more experience after all these years, but that doesn't mean their anywhere near primarch level in ability


i would venture to say 98.9999 percent of CSM today are probably more experienced than Roboute

and still Roboute would wreck 98.9999 percent of CSM

More like 99.9999999 (repeating), actually!

Do you guys think Roboute should smack Calgar, first thing, because of Calgar ruining the interpretation of the Codex Astartes (taking it too literal) when Roboute didn't want that

Furthermore, due to how the warp makes no sense, there's probably a bunch of CSM who popped out on their first raid since the Heresy only to find out that it's been 10 000 years since it has finished. I think that would interesting

 Alpharius wrote:
More like 99.9999999 (repeating), actually!

Anyone other than Abaddon that you think could take down a Primarch?

On the age topic shouldn't Guilliman be 250 years ish? Unless I'm mistakes the great crusade went on for about 230years, the Horus Heresy some 10years and then some time untill his showdown with Fulgrim. Calgar is about 400. I havn't doubble checked sources so take it with a grain of salt.

On topic: With a Primarch back, Cadia dead and Ynnead getting champions we're looking at a paradigm shif in 40k. I doubt the Ultramarines are going to stay the same after theese event though what will happen is anybodys guess. Presumably Roubert will either try to take command of the Imperium or build a new Imperium with Maccrage at its center, though it's all just speculation. Pretty sure Calgar will hand him the Ultramarines though Roubert will probably invent a new office for himself above the rank of Chapters master and have Calgar remain. I don't see anyone except the Inquisition being able to stop him.

 Alpharius wrote:
More like 99.9999999 (repeating), actually!

Probably not nearly that high. Remember there are 6-7 CSM Primarchs still alive. As someone names Alpharius I thought you would understand. I would put my money on Angron any day.

Assuming there are 500,000 CSM, that would limit it out at .99986. Also not so sure how Rowboat would do against Abby or Lucius.

 Nerak wrote:
though Roubert will probably invent a new office for himself above the rank of Chapters master and have Calgar remain. I don't see anyone except the Inquisition being able to stop him.

Legion Master?

 Ketara wrote:

 Nerak wrote:
though Roubert will probably invent a new office for himself above the rank of Chapters master and have Calgar remain. I don't see anyone except the Inquisition being able to stop him.

Legion Master?

Why, he'll just remain chapter master. Rouboute Guilliman will just lead the XIIIth Legion, like he did before, only now it has around 400.000 Space Marines, since from the 1 million SM in the galaxy, around 2 thirds are Ultramarines genewise, and I think at least 60-70% of those chapters will consider him their primarch.

And even if it's just 200.000 Marines, that is still a lot. And Calgar can just become First Chapter Master. Like in the olden days.

another possiability is Gulliman leaves Caligar as chapter master, and simply takes "Lord of Macragge" for himself

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:


I'm not the one who is trying to build up some kind of canon to try to make regular CSM better than a Primarch.

CSM will not, ever, be the match of a primarch. They are more experienced than a loyalist primarch who has spent most of his life in stasis, yes, but that is not the same thing.

Are they really though?

They have more time alive and active, that doesn't mean it is all spent in combat or anything like that.

Plus this isn't dragon ball z. There is a limit on how good you can get. Super human or not their is not enough brain cells to r,ember 10000 years of stuff plus all the tactics and ext you seen. If they where pushed to the limits during the crusade they would not be much better then they where then just different tactics. There is a limit on every man and he can never surpass them and not all men are created eaqule.

Does anyone think that this will be a new era like how "Fantasy" went to "Age of Sigmar"

will the rumored 8th edition focus on Roboute's attempt to fix the Imperium,

Yes but just like whfb people will deny it til the game ends. They do say it is aosing but not that far.

But how much of it can burn, til it is far enough to burn you.

Aos would not of burnt me if not for name change and lore kill

OgreChubbs wrote:
Yes but just like whfb people will deny it til the game ends. They do say it is aosing but not that far.

But how much of it can burn, til it is far enough to burn you.

Aos would not of burnt me if not for name change and lore kill

I don't think we will see a massive universal restructure like Age of Sigmar

but i do think a new Imperium shaped by Roboute will happen

In terms of experience, there is more to it than just the raw number of years under your belt - there remains the issue of the amount of data you can take in as a result of experiencing something, and the further issue of incorporating your experiences into an applicable format.

Primarchs (like RG) are well-established to not only have their natural attributes set to 20 (out of a possible 10, on a logarithmic scale), but to also perceive and process information with details and at speeds that beggar description.

Comparing even a CSM who was outside the warp for all 10000 years and fought for nearly every single moment to a Primarch who spent only a few centuries in the Great Crusade would be the rough equivalent of comparing a month's worth of downloading on a 56k modem onto a 1980's computer to a day's worth of downloading on Google Fiber onto a modern supercomputer.

He'd seek out Bjorn the Fell-Handed being the only Loyalist from the same era and get himself updated on what has happened since the Heresy.
The Space Wolves don't do the Codex Astartes but they do make liquor strong enough to kill a human and poisons that allow a Space Marine or even a Primarch to feel it.

After hearing what has happened to the Imperium even RG is gonna need sommething bracing.