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 Dakka Wolf wrote:
He'd seek out Bjorn the Fell-Handed being the only Loyalist from the same era and get himself updated on what has happened since the Heresy.
The Space Wolves don't do the Codex Astartes but they do make liquor strong enough to kill a human and poisons that allow a Space Marine or even a Primarch to feel it.

After hearing what has happened to the Imperium even RG is gonna need sommething bracing.

also just because the space wolves don't use the codex, doesn't mean they'd not give Gulliman some props. (I've always thought that a GREAT novel would be a combined Ultramarine/Space Wolf operation. they start off in conflcit over each others approuch, but by the end have come to appreciate each other. it's like a buddy cop movie with Marines )

as much as the whole spirtual leige thing is mocked, I do think Gulliman is most likely to be the most respected primarch among all marine chapters regardless of their background. if only for his role as a architect of the IoM

Not saying I wouldn't be delighted to read it - but how are you going to make it different to any story about the Space Wolves and Dark Angels?

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Not saying I wouldn't be delighted to read it - but how are you going to make it different to any story about the Space Wolves and Dark Angels?

well for a start the straight man isn't a unlikeable secretive asshat

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Not saying I wouldn't be delighted to read it - but how are you going to make it different to any story about the Space Wolves and Dark Angels?

well for a start the straight man isn't a unlikeable secretive asshat

Bam. Headshot.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Not saying I wouldn't be delighted to read it - but how are you going to make it different to any story about the Space Wolves and Dark Angels?

well for a start the straight man isn't a unlikeable secretive asshat

This. Relating to Dark Angels is difficult when they're so mysterious and secretive.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Not saying I wouldn't be delighted to read it - but how are you going to make it different to any story about the Space Wolves and Dark Angels?

well for a start the straight man isn't a unlikeable secretive asshat

This. Relating to Dark Angels is difficult when they're so mysterious and secretive.

Read the latest Ragnar Blackmane novel.
The Dark Angel in that is actually pretty relatable.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
More like 99.9999999 (repeating), actually!

Anyone other than Abaddon that you think could take down a Primarch?

Ork Snipers

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
More like 99.9999999 (repeating), actually!

Anyone other than Abaddon that you think could take down a Primarch?

Any of the world sundering weapons technology that exists in the 41st millenium? I mean a knife cut put him on life support so I think a D-cannon or Basilisk shot would, by all rights, evaporate him into dust and move on to the next target.

And yet there's this gakky novel where a primarch survives a Titan shot... Although I guess plot armor is best armor, till the plot needs you to go away.

 Bobthehero wrote:
And yet there's this gakky novel where a primarch survives a Titan shot... Although I guess plot armor is best armor, till the plot needs you to go away.

amazing what some of the most powerful psykers in existance can do innit?

I'd say its boring.

 Bobthehero wrote:
And yet there's this gakky novel where a primarch survives a Titan shot... Although I guess plot armor is best armor, till the plot needs you to go away.

Which one is that? Need to know so I can avoid reading it.

Betrayer

 Skylifter1000 wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
And yet there's this gakky novel where a primarch survives a Titan shot... Although I guess plot armor is best armor, till the plot needs you to go away.

Which one is that? Need to know so I can avoid reading it.

While I'm not going to say that anyone's opinion is more or less valid than anyone else's, I feel Betrayer was one of, if not, the best Horus Heresy books thus far and that you would be seriously missing out if you decided to skip it.

Edit: misread the quotes

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:

 Skylifter1000 wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
And yet there's this gakky novel where a primarch survives a Titan shot... Although I guess plot armor is best armor, till the plot needs you to go away.

Which one is that? Need to know so I can avoid reading it.

While I'm not going to say that anyone's opinion is more or less valid than anyone else's, I feel Betrayer was one of, if not, the best Horus Heresy books thus far and that you would be seriously missing out if you decided to skip it.

I'll second that. the HH series is best when the story isn't "boltgun porn" and instead is something driven by story and character, betrayer very much is, even the "shot by a titan" bit in it, was done, from a story telling POV for a VERY specific reason, (to basicly demonstrate, clearly, how powerful Lorgar had become since embracing chaos). Betrayer is, IMHO one of the best stories out there, and anyone whose moderastly intreasted in the ultramarines, word bearers or world eaters, NEEDS to read it. (especially the world eaters. I'd argue it's their story)

Will Roboute be powerful still against someone like Abaddon

remember that Roboute lost a fight against Kor Phaeron during the Heresy

BrianDavion wrote:

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:

 Skylifter1000 wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
And yet there's this gakky novel where a primarch survives a Titan shot... Although I guess plot armor is best armor, till the plot needs you to go away.

Which one is that? Need to know so I can avoid reading it.

While I'm not going to say that anyone's opinion is more or less valid than anyone else's, I feel Betrayer was one of, if not, the best Horus Heresy books thus far and that you would be seriously missing out if you decided to skip it.

I'll second that. the HH series is best when the story isn't "boltgun porn" and instead is something driven by story and character, betrayer very much is, even the "shot by a titan" bit in it, was done, from a story telling POV for a VERY specific reason, (to basicly demonstrate, clearly, how powerful Lorgar had become since embracing chaos). Betrayer is, IMHO one of the best stories out there, and anyone whose moderastly intreasted in the ultramarines, word bearers or world eaters, NEEDS to read it. (especially the world eaters. I'd argue it's their story)

I have found ADB to be one of the best BL authors by a wide margin, up to now. So I will most likely read that novel. Thanks for the heads-up, anyway.

by the way


will Calgar give the gauntlets back to Roboute?

 Ashiraya wrote:
Meanwhile most CSM are VotLW!

The legions of Chaos Marines have taken losses from attrition and constant warfare, and have replaced those losses with new recruits, either vat-grown or traitors from more modern times. And that's withotu considering the natural predatory nature of the Warp itself taking many of them. I would be surprised if any more than a handful of the most notable Chaos Marines had such experience.

 Melissia wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Meanwhile most CSM are VotLW!

The legions of Chaos Marines have taken losses from attrition and constant warfare, and have replaced those losses with new recruits, either vat-grown or traitors from more modern times. And that's withotu considering the natural predatory nature of the Warp itself taking many of them. I would be surprised if any more than a handful of the most notable Chaos Marines had such experience.

Honestly, whether you find the lore plausible or not is compeletely irrelevant. It's not going to go away no matter how much you dislike it.

If it's too unrealistic, maybe it's best to stick with your mind bullets, giant anime robots, and hulking British soccer hooligan mushroom-hybrid-creatures.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Honestly, whether you find the lore plausible or not is

What I stated IS lore. You being offended by Games Workshop contradicting itself is irrelevant.

I do not see what is contradictory here. You claim that they have taken losses over time, and have replaced these losses over time. This is true, and there are sources for this. But this does not contradict previously linked lore that most veterans still endure.

 Melissia wrote:
I would be surprised if any more than a handful of the most notable Chaos Marines had such experience.

This, however, is where the error lies. Unless you have a text from GW available to contradict, there is no reason to assume that the confirmed information we do have



is false.

 Melissia wrote:
You being offended by Games Workshop contradicting itself is irrelevant.

As much as I am sick of the 'haha did you get offended' crowd that infests the internet, since there are a fair few things that are indeed offensive and should be handled with appropriate tact, Games Workshop contradicting itself is not one of those things. This you will see should you be able to provide a verifiable quote that contradicts above image. I mean, if you can, that just places us in the same mess as 'how tall are space marines' and then there is nothing more to do about that tangent. But if there isn't one, then we just take the information we have, surely?

what exactly does "Veteran of the long war" MEAN though? do you have to have fought in the heresy? I don't recall it ever being defined

BrianDavion wrote:
what exactly does "Veteran of the long war" MEAN though? do you have to have fought in the heresy? I don't recall it ever being defined

In some places, yes it means they fought in the heresy. But in others it doesnt. I believe Huron has VotLW, and he certainly wasnt in the heresy. On the other hand I dont think Fabulous Bill has VotLW, while he did fight in the heresy.

 Exergy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
what exactly does "Veteran of the long war" MEAN though? do you have to have fought in the heresy? I don't recall it ever being defined

In some places, yes it means they fought in the heresy. But in others it doesnt. I believe Huron has VotLW, and he certainly wasnt in the heresy. On the other hand I dont think Fabulous Bill has VotLW, while he did fight in the heresy.

right so in the term of the line from IA it's really a pretty useless term. does it mean "they all fought in the heresy? does it mean "they've all got a few fights vs the IoM under their belt"?

 Exergy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
what exactly does "Veteran of the long war" MEAN though? do you have to have fought in the heresy? I don't recall it ever being defined

In some places, yes it means they fought in the heresy. But in others it doesnt. I believe Huron has VotLW, and he certainly wasnt in the heresy. On the other hand I dont think Fabulous Bill has VotLW, while he did fight in the heresy.

Huron has it so does Bile, it still supports the idea that VOTLW does not limit itself to SM that fought during the HH.

 Exergy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
what exactly does "Veteran of the long war" MEAN though? do you have to have fought in the heresy? I don't recall it ever being defined

In some places, yes it means they fought in the heresy. But in others it doesnt. I believe Huron has VotLW, and he certainly wasnt in the heresy. On the other hand I dont think Fabulous Bill has VotLW, while he did fight in the heresy.

Fabius does have VotLW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Huron has it so does Bile, it still supports the idea that VOTLW does not limit itself to SM that fought during the HH.

Only if you also think a character cannot be stubborn without being Stubborn.

 Ashiraya wrote:
This, however, is where the error lies. Unless you have a text from GW available to contradict, there is no reason to assume that the confirmed information we do have

GW itself disagrees. Things are stated as propaganda. Taking everything literally as absolutely true is ridiculous. Otherwise we have Marines both stated as supremely godlike beings... and being stupid enough that they happen to forget the important details of their briefings about the enemy they're going to face mere hours afterwards. Being stronger than the average person, but being unable to overpower a single strength 1 entity. I'm not really interested in arguing when the argument consists of grasping at single lines of text taken out of context from obscure books very few people have read.

Roboute better not be complaining about Chapters because he was the one who wrote the codex to split the legions