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I think the only codex that ever had that kind of longevity was the 3rd edition Dark Eldar codex.

And that was because GW forgot it existed for a decade.

Losing all the codexes is a hard pill to swallow. But from the state of the rules as they are now, this is the only way to actually have a chance at rebalancing the rules; a total overhaul.

The only thing I'm worried about is if GW will try to promote the "Casual" format. I'm hoping "Matched Play" remains the premier pickup game format, while Casual remains for at home or when you're too drunk off your ass to care (which is sort of what happens already, just not officially).

In the meantime, for all you folks who like the miniatures over the actual rules, keep an eye out on your local ads! There's probably going to be many people who will start selling off their armies en-masse.

 Jambles wrote:
I'd say anyone who wasn't expecting their old codices to get invalidated were kidding themselves. It's not like this didn't happen with the other editions of the game, they were just getting replaced by another codex!

For my part, I'm a filthy nerd, and I love my collection of old gaming books (not just from GW). I have rulebooks from games that don't even exist anymore, never got me up in arms that they went out of being legal for play. That's just the way games go, new editions come out, old rules get thrown away. Some of them are good reads for inspiration; I'll never not love the art style of the 3rd Edition 40k rulebook...

For what it's worth, I'm worried about the placeholder lists too. I wasn't impressed with what happened on the AoS side. Maybe they've learned their lesson?

As ben affleck would say it: I agree.

If you look at DnD for example same thing a new edition comes out an all the old stuff is not compatible.You can still play the old editons. But the live span of the 40k editions became shorter and shorter. So if they release the core rules for free they might aswell update them once a year und bring a little balance to the game.

I just bought a couple codexes two weeks ago too. ):

I dunno what this open play thing is supposed to be but it seems mightily pointless to me. Unbound still has points and nobody cares about it. This sounds like it wouldn't have points like age of sigmar did, which my group tired not having played a single game of fantasy before and found it to be impossible. I really really REALLY don't see the appeal other than for explaining how the rules work to a new player, but can't really be considered a game format, nor does it require one.

Maybe we will see Orc and Tyranid players again at the table!

nordsturmking wrote:
I hope "low cost books" means printed versions. I don't like the ebooks i prefer print. I started playing 40k in 2000 with 3rd edition. And i still have all the codices and rulebooks. i like the fact that i can grab them from my bookshelf once in awhile sit in my chair or lay in bed and read in them.

So true...

Unfortunatly in my opinion low cost would either imply pdf or booklets

Also the point with codices bieng invalided isn't in the mere fact (quite logical speaking of which) because it's entirely normal when jumping onto another edition. On the other hand, the number of books and the quite little time they remained valid makes them an atrocious waste. Just think about new armies as Skitarii for example: the codex lasted a few month then!

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:
I hope "low cost books" means printed versions. I don't like the ebooks i prefer print. I started playing 40k in 2000 with 3rd edition. And i still have all the codices and rulebooks. i like the fact that i can grab them from my bookshelf once in awhile sit in my chair or lay in bed and read in them.

So true...

Unfortunatly in my opinion low cost would either imply pdf or booklets

Also the point with codices bieng invalided isn't in the mere fact (quite logical speaking of which) because it's entirely normal when jumping onto another edition. On the other hand, the number of books and the quite little time they remained valid makes them an atrocious waste. Just think about new armies as Skitarii for example: the codex lasted a few month then!

Yep or the end times stuff. The last book lasted 3 month.

I would be ok with

PDF rules downloadable at a price for those who enjoy digital
.
And

Xenology like faction books that had no rules but just fluff and came with a the most resent set of pre printed heavy paper datasheets like the ones they gave stores for shadow wars.

If they don't invalidate the codexes at this point. They are going to have a serious issue.

Assuming the box set is Crimson Fists (the truescale marine hinted at) vs Death Guard (the faction soon to be released).

This means the next two codexes would be Space Marine and Chaos/Death guard.

Logically, from there you would release Eldar and One other Xenos faction likely Tau or Orcs.

This means in a year from now, the Tyranid players might see a new codex. Which in the meantime they would be playing with a 3 edition old codex.

By invalidating all codexes and putting out small warscroll style pdfs at the start. They can spend their time building out for all current factions. Then as their modelers do groups like World Eaters and Emperor's Children. They can release a book for each of those and warscrolls online.

This means book wise they can concentrate on campaign play and story. Something that the Gathering storm books really did well for adding to the Universe.

Although it sucks that my codexes that I bought recently are going to be useless in the new edition, I am glad to see a format in which they can update the game quickly and not have to wait 2 years for an errata or FAQ to come out. It should be easy enough to just update a file and download it.

Jep having annual fixesto your armies balance is a good thing : )

 Vache Glace wrote:
https://warhammer40000.gw-hub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/04/New-Edition-of-40K-FAQ.pdf

It'll be interesting to see what they do, AOSesque? War machine style? Exciting! No more silly decurions hopefully everthing will be balanced out

This is my *hope*. Now, I don't expect anything, but 7E has been a giant dumpster fire of bloat in every way, and absolutely awful game design. There's nothing of value to be salvaged there.

While I'm hesitant about many changes that are being discussed, I'm fairly happy about none of the books carrying over, it gives the *opportunity* for the fresh start 40k really needs.

Whether GW will get stuff mostly right this time is anyone's guess, I would expect not given their past performance, but the dumping of the 7E codex books is a good start to me.

Plus.. think about it. Would you rather have models or books? Your money is a finite amount.

I do find it a bit shady to release these gathering storm campaign books and then immediately invalidate the rulesets and formations they just released.

Or maybe this isn't as big of a reboot as we think.

 Marmatag wrote:
I do find it a bit shady to release these gathering storm campaign books and then immediately invalidate the rulesets and formations they just released.

Or maybe this isn't as big of a reboot as we think.

I bought them for the fluff mostly

None of the End Times books had rules that translated across - models - very much so but not rules.

 Marmatag wrote:
I do find it a bit shady to release these gathering storm campaign books and then immediately invalidate the rulesets and formations they just released.

That's pretty standard GW. They did the exact same thing with Age of Sigmar and the "End Times" stuff, Sisters got their 2E codex just a few months before 3E's reboot, etc.

Im excited anyways, gave up bothering with codicies some time back and acquired them on the cheap or picked up the rules from battlescribe / forums.
I do miss the fluff but this new edition looks exciting and GW seem to be trying to listen and enact player feedback.

 Roknar wrote:
I dunno what this open play thing is supposed to be but it seems mightily pointless to me. Unbound still has points and nobody cares about it. This sounds like it wouldn't have points like age of sigmar did, which my group tired not having played a single game of fantasy before and found it to be impossible. I really really REALLY don't see the appeal other than for explaining how the rules work to a new player, but can't really be considered a game format, nor does it require one.

Open Play is for:

New players learning the game.
New or old players who are starting an army but don't have enough models to field a credible force yet.
Multi-player battles- the General's Handbook has several different formats for multiplayer games.
Players who don't care about all the overhead of points systems or forging a narrative (they exist), or who want to make wacky house scenarios.
Testing a new unit or practicing rules interactions.

It's different from Unbound because Unbound still carried the expectations of "matched" play- it was like bringing a dodgeball to a baseball game. Open Play is its own thing; whether it's a thing for you or your group is another story.

Another way to look at it is that it's the "just the rules" game format. All the others have some amount of game setup overhead; they've just made that part modular rather than integral.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:
I hope "low cost books" means printed versions. I don't like the ebooks i prefer print. I started playing 40k in 2000 with 3rd edition. And i still have all the codices and rulebooks. i like the fact that i can grab them from my bookshelf once in awhile sit in my chair or lay in bed and read in them.

So true...

Unfortunatly in my opinion low cost would either imply pdf or booklets

Also the point with codices bieng invalided isn't in the mere fact (quite logical speaking of which) because it's entirely normal when jumping onto another edition. On the other hand, the number of books and the quite little time they remained valid makes them an atrocious waste. Just think about new armies as Skitarii for example: the codex lasted a few month then!

Well maybe they are going to go with softcover books? Look at the generals handbook that's like $30 the battletomes are more expensive but you don't really need them with the free rules (there's some exclusive stuff but not a big deal)

This is good for me because I just busted out my old Tau from 6th Ed and now I want to play again so free rules would be wicked! Especially for people who don't play often it's better to have free rules then buying a codex...Playing once a month or so and then boom you have to drop $60-70 on a new codex...Tough beans

One thing i *hope* is that they dont mess up where characters are supposed to be in "Warscrolls"
E.G Nagash, you would EXPECT him to be in the Tomb Kings Warscroll, as he basically is one. But NOPE he is in the Vampire Counts Warscroll

I'm a bit shocked that anyone is surprised by this. I don't play current 40K but rumours have abounded (from reasonable sources) for over a year or more about a new edition - and that the new edition would likely be a larger change than previous.

Sure there was a lot of argument over how AoS it would become, but the writing has been on the wall for a loooong time. With such a re-boot needed, I think invalidating current books was an absolute likelihood.

I thought perhaps 8th might not be so early in 2017 as people had predicted, but I'm a little amazed people were buying codices/new books (short of wanting them for fluff etc.) over the past six months. Obviously it's in GW's interest to do that - so I don't fault them. This just really shouldn't shock anyone.

I'm torn because I'd like to have a 40K I could get back into, but 7th was fething terrible...and yet AoS has numerous rules features which really bug the hell out of me. Looks like I'll probably continue to pal around with an older edition. I can't see 8th being any worse than 7th. That's nigh impossible.

 Elbows wrote:
I'm a bit shocked that anyone is surprised by this. I don't play current 40K but rumours have abounded (from reasonable sources) for over a year or more about a new edition - and that the new edition would likely be a larger change than previous.

Sure there was a lot of argument over how AoS it would become, but the writing has been on the wall for a loooong time. With such a re-boot needed, I think invalidating current books was an absolute likelihood.

I thought perhaps 8th might not be so early in 2017 as people had predicted, but I'm a little amazed people were buying codices/new books (short of wanting them for fluff etc.) over the past six months. Obviously it's in GW's interest to do that - so I don't fault them. This just really shouldn't shock anyone.

I'm torn because I'd like to have a 40K I could get back into, but 7th was fething terrible...and yet AoS has numerous rules features which really bug the hell out of me. Looks like I'll probably continue to pal around with an older edition. I can't see 8th being any worse than 7th. That's nigh impossible.

It's always possible , though at least with a clean codex reboot the possibility for something *better* is much higher.

I'm glad they will broaden their focus and create rules for narrative, competitive and drunken free for all. Hopefully they are committed to catering to all three.

My army is orks. My codex was already invalidated from the release of Decurions. I can only pray they give orks some tlc.

I think this might have a better reception than AoS because when that was released, they only gave us the Drunken Free For All and only barely hinted at the other styles.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I think this might have a better reception than AoS because when that was released, they only gave us the Drunken Free For All and only barely hinted at the other styles.

Aye, the AoS launch was handled very poorly in a multitude of ways, and was a total bust for quite some time. Not sure what they were thinking with that. GW appears to be thinking a bit harder about this one.

I'm willing to bet 75% of the bad stigma that stuck around AoS would not have been there had they announced the General's Handbook and Matched Play right from the getgo, rather than saying "there will be something more advanced down the road" and then handed us that ridiculous collection of warscrolls that made us act snooty or get drunk for an in-game bonus.

Almost certainly. I really do not understand what they were thinking with that launch. An empty sandbox game with no coherency and new universe with almost as little coherency was not a winning recipe.

nordsturmking wrote:

Q:Can I still use all my models?
A:Yes. Every Warhammer 40,000 miniature we sell today will be usable in the new edition of
Warhammer 40,000. What’s more, they’ll be supported with new rules, which will be available
from the get go in handy, low-cost books.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 Vaktathi wrote:
Almost certainly. I really do not understand what they were thinking with that launch. An empty sandbox game with no coherency and new universe with almost as little coherency was not a winning recipe.

Like you said, they really seemed to have learned from that lesson and this one has had a lot more effort put into it. Now let's just hope it's going to pay off.

If there would be a moment to measure Rountree's skills as the new CEO, I would say this would be the make or break moment. If 8th edition is good, he will probably go down in history as the CEO who saved 40k. If not, then "Kirby 2.0" would be a rather appropriate moniker.

 Vache Glace wrote:
https://warhammer40000.gw-hub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/04/New-Edition-of-40K-FAQ.pdf

It'll be interesting to see what they do, AOSesque? War machine style? Exciting! No more silly decurions hopefully everthing will be balanced out

Just because the current codexs are being done away with does not mean balance or formations are getting rid of. In fact, just the opposite, GW has said they plan to reward 'themed' armies, that means more specialized formations with rules that create 'unbalance'. The current rule set is not the problem, yes it could use some refining, the problem is armies that can ignore rules or get ridiculous bonuses for free, that creates imbalance.