Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

All I want from all of this is a generic Scout Marine HQ Choice... and to actually want to play a game where I am enjoying a pickup game and not having to check the rulebook every couple of minutes. Tired of wargaming feeling like it is a second job trying to remember every rule and interraction.

 Stormonu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

He can't be Kirby 2.0. Everything is just so much better than it used to be.

I'm eagerly awaiting this, mostly because cost will be minimal. Had I needed to buy anything from scratch I'd be pretty pissed.

Smoke and mirrors.

Sure, we'll get free rules and warscrolls, but as the saying goes "you get what you pay for". They'll be designed in a way people will LEAP at buying the following books because they'll be so much "better".

And while I expect we'll get rules for "all existing models", I fully expect we'll see several individual models, if not entire armies, vanish within the next 6-12 months after release (my bet is on Sisters).

Here's the thing, the books are 18$ on the app and you don't need them. Google your warlord traits and relics buy, or again google a 2$ formation and you're done. Tournament ready army for 2 dollars. Hell, I don't even use any of the formations, the newest codex actually brought my army DOWN in power and I still bought it because it was cool and going through the codex and building lists is the best part of the game.

As for armies getting dropped, maybe? I doubt it but it's possible, brettonians and tomb kings were copywrite issues more than anything. Doomsaying about dropping sisters is silly though, they'll have to do new rules at launched and the only difference between being dropped and the last 20 years has been Celestine and semantics.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Well, people probably would have dealt with that better had the rest of the launch been better managed. It felt like they put in more effort on the gimmickry and "look at this cool new big flashy kit" side than actually creating a good ruleset, and it just didn't go over particularly well, hence why it's took so long for AoS to get to where Fantasy was even in its death-spiral late 8E state. It also didn't help that people felt that Fantasy could have been mostly fixed with like a few pages worth of rules changes and some model count reduction, so when a complete reboot that was little more than a quickstart ruleset was released, the goofiness didn't click with most people.

Agreed. They didn't earn the trust required for the goofiness to come across as nostalgic and fun instead of- excuse me- [pours a shot of whiskey] a "slap in the face." [downs the shot]

That's why I think they're pushing the community engagement and transparency so hard this time around. They know they fethed it all up last time. And good on them for it.

I don't know. I kind of feel like Gathering Storm was meant to imply that the new edition would be more or less compatible with the current rules, at least that's the way I saw it. I'm curious to see how they treat armies that were built around the old rules. Sure Necrons wil still be playable but are they going to invalidate the Decurian style of army? I'm guessing my 3000 point War Convocation is out although I hope it remains in some way a playable force.

I guess I still feel the sting from my Fantasy experience. Here's some warscrolls, now we're never going to mention Tomb Kings again. I have almost 10,000 points that sit on a shelf.

ERJAK wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

He can't be Kirby 2.0. Everything is just so much better than it used to be.

I'm eagerly awaiting this, mostly because cost will be minimal. Had I needed to buy anything from scratch I'd be pretty pissed.

Smoke and mirrors.

Sure, we'll get free rules and warscrolls, but as the saying goes "you get what you pay for". They'll be designed in a way people will LEAP at buying the following books because they'll be so much "better".

And while I expect we'll get rules for "all existing models", I fully expect we'll see several individual models, if not entire armies, vanish within the next 6-12 months after release (my bet is on Sisters).

Here's the thing, the books are 18$ on the app and you don't need them. Google your warlord traits and relics buy, or again google a 2$ formation and you're done. Tournament ready army for 2 dollars. Hell, I don't even use any of the formations, the newest codex actually brought my army DOWN in power and I still bought it because it was cool and going through the codex and building lists is the best part of the game.

As for armies getting dropped, maybe? I doubt it but it's possible, brettonians and tomb kings were copywrite issues more than anything. Doomsaying about dropping sisters is silly though, they'll have to do new rules at launched and the only difference between being dropped and the last 20 years has been Celestine and semantics.

He's very fond of stating Smoke and Mirrors. Though they've already stated they won't drop armies this time around, though I'm betting they'll change some up a bit.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

He can't be Kirby 2.0. Everything is just so much better than it used to be.

I'm eagerly awaiting this, mostly because cost will be minimal. Had I needed to buy anything from scratch I'd be pretty pissed.

Smoke and mirrors.

Sure, we'll get free rules and warscrolls, but as the saying goes "you get what you pay for". They'll be designed in a way people will LEAP at buying the following books because they'll be so much "better".

And while I expect we'll get rules for "all existing models", I fully expect we'll see several individual models, if not entire armies, vanish within the next 6-12 months after release (my bet is on Sisters).

Here's the thing, the books are 18$ on the app and you don't need them. Google your warlord traits and relics buy, or again google a 2$ formation and you're done. Tournament ready army for 2 dollars. Hell, I don't even use any of the formations, the newest codex actually brought my army DOWN in power and I still bought it because it was cool and going through the codex and building lists is the best part of the game.

As for armies getting dropped, maybe? I doubt it but it's possible, brettonians and tomb kings were copywrite issues more than anything. Doomsaying about dropping sisters is silly though, they'll have to do new rules at launched and the only difference between being dropped and the last 20 years has been Celestine and semantics.

He's very fond of stating Smoke and Mirrors. Though they've already stated they won't drop armies this time around, though I'm betting they'll change some up a bit.

I think their treatment of Tyranids broke me.

I only came back to 40K when the new Necrons came about at the end of 5th. The enthusiasm has been waning since then. I'd thought GW was turning a corner when RoundTree took over, but I feel I've come to the realization they're still doing the same exact thing as before, but with a new coat of paint that has everyone believing they've wiped away the sins of the past. However, at this point I still see overpriced models (by about 20%), poorly written rules slap-dashed together and a company that doesn't seem to fully understand its own customer base. I'm not inclined to believe this will all suddenly change when 8th drops.

Though I will happily take a copy of the free rules and see what they do for my Tyranid, Necron, Tau, SM, IG, (son's) Chaos, (other son's) Ork and (guest) Eldar army. If it's not to my liking, I have my own ruleset I've been working on to turn to, and enough models I don't need to buy any more from GW.

To me The Gathering Storm feels a bit like End Times. But thanks to the FAQ i am still optimistic.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I played Warhammer Fantasy and the game ended up worse than i'd ever feared it could in AoS and thought people were crazy thinking it'd be as bad as they said and it was worse than that.

Just take this from experience. Have a back-up plan if things hit the crapper. Go to X-wing or something. Don't buy any gathering storm models as it'll be a slap in the face that you paid hundreds just to be competitive only to have all the rules change and become a game you disliked. I still have unfinished stormfiends and a mostly broken vermin lord from when GW switched to AoS. All my in progress Fantasy models remain unbuilt and never will be. Just putting it this way if you're thinking about buying more GW models. DON'T. Wait and see and don't have high hopes so that maybe you'll feel better when GW possibly screws over all of us.

If you want to have a good Warhammer Fantasy experience take a look at Warhammer CE. I really like it. I have played a few AoS games and decided it is not for me. The lack of WS, BS, S and T and the almost non existens of tactic except "do i push this unit in the big pile of CC or not" All this just doesn't appeal to me.

Has anyone requested a refund for recently bought codexes?

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Has anyone requested a refund for recently bought codexes?

Consumer Law says they have to give a refund. Depends on how long ago it was purchased.

 oldzoggy wrote:

No more silly decurions hopefully

lol...

Silly you have you looked at AoS recently ; )
All is decurions over there. The FAQ told us that all codexes where invalidated not that they aren't releasing AoS syle groups of units that get free bonuses but are totally not formations or decurions.

Tomb Kings, Mixed Destruction, Mixed Order Gunlines and Sayl-bombs disagree badly.

Also, free bonuses? You are the one that should have looked at AoS.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Has anyone requested a refund for recently bought codexes?

Well you might as well try but i doubt it'd work anyway. In a sense it's not illegal to jump onto another edition and then laughing at the poor guy's who just treated himself to some books face, in particular when this invaliding is linked with the total refund of the game we've been pleading for (I personally did so I can't blame them on that point.)

NH Gunsmith wrote:All I want from all of this is a generic Scout Marine HQ Choice... and to actually want to play a game where I am enjoying a pickup game and not having to check the rulebook every couple of minutes. Tired of wargaming feeling like it is a second job trying to remember every rule and interraction.

Well, if you want a Scout HQ, there is Telion. Of course, that would force you into using Ultramarine Chapter Tactics.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

NH Gunsmith wrote:All I want from all of this is a generic Scout Marine HQ Choice... and to actually want to play a game where I am enjoying a pickup game and not having to check the rulebook every couple of minutes. Tired of wargaming feeling like it is a second job trying to remember every rule and interraction.

Well, if you want a Scout HQ, there is Telion. Of course, that would force you into using Ultramarine Chapter Tactics.

Or 30k. Legion Vigilator.

That said AoS took a bunch of special characters and genericized them (e.g. the old Drycha model is now a 'Branchwraith', Kroq-Gar is now the generic Carnosaur Oldblood...) so GW may make 40k Vigilators with generic rules and have the Telion model as the picture in the book.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

NH Gunsmith wrote:All I want from all of this is a generic Scout Marine HQ Choice... and to actually want to play a game where I am enjoying a pickup game and not having to check the rulebook every couple of minutes. Tired of wargaming feeling like it is a second job trying to remember every rule and interraction.

Well, if you want a Scout HQ, there is Telion. Of course, that would force you into using Ultramarine Chapter Tactics.

Or 30k. Legion Vigilator.

That said AoS took a bunch of special characters and genericized them (e.g. the old Drycha model is now a 'Branchwraith', Kroq-Gar is now the generic Carnosaur Oldblood...) so GW may make 40k Vigilators with generic rules and have the Telion model as the picture in the book.

Several of the generized lords got newer models (like Drycha) or ar slated for it (like Krell), so I'd not hold my breath. That or that they'll approach heroes differently.

nordsturmking wrote:
To me The Gathering Storm feels a bit like End Times. But thanks to the FAQ i am still optimistic.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I played Warhammer Fantasy and the game ended up worse than i'd ever feared it could in AoS and thought people were crazy thinking it'd be as bad as they said and it was worse than that.

Just take this from experience. Have a back-up plan if things hit the crapper. Go to X-wing or something. Don't buy any gathering storm models as it'll be a slap in the face that you paid hundreds just to be competitive only to have all the rules change and become a game you disliked. I still have unfinished stormfiends and a mostly broken vermin lord from when GW switched to AoS. All my in progress Fantasy models remain unbuilt and never will be. Just putting it this way if you're thinking about buying more GW models. DON'T. Wait and see and don't have high hopes so that maybe you'll feel better when GW possibly screws over all of us.

If you want to have a good Warhammer Fantasy experience take a look at Warhammer CE. I really like it. I have played a few AoS games and decided it is not for me. The lack of WS, BS, S and T and the almost non existens of tactic except "do i push this unit in the big pile of CC or not" All this just doesn't appeal to me.

See if you just stopped at 'it's not for me' that would be fine, not everygame appeals to every player, but then you add on the tactics thing and ruin it.

Warhammer Fantasy was LITERALLY 'push big blocks of units in a pile of CC or not' except the answer was always 'not until turn 4 when my magic has obliterated 3/4ths of his army while our big tough melee units stare at each other longingly'. People got 'boredom' and 'tactics' confused a lot in that game.

Not seeing tactics in sigmar just means you suck at sigmar and if you go to even small local events and try that you'll get tabled every game even against narrative armies.

 Roknar wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Jep I sure hope they don't go for the option

Here is a warscroll for each unit, they can only buy more dudes no equipment or other options, 90% of your models are now web only and will never get an update so you can all have fun AoS style.

The new TSons units in particular make me wary of this happening here too. We're only a stepping stone away from loosing our armoury...again.

Alternatively, the entire armoury is on the datasheet instead of searching through the book for a reference.

That would work too. Even allows for adjusting points, but I don't see that happening lol.

Aside from points, that's what every AoS Warscroll is.

The downside is that the options may end up being very limited to what's in the box...

 Charistoph wrote:

Aside from points, that's what every AoS Warscroll is.

The downside is that the options may end up being very limited to what's in the box...

That's kind of the way 30k already is, and I don't hear many people complaining about it there. In 30k TAC squads are just a boat load of dudes with bolters and Devastators can only have one weapon type per unit. I already make my 40k armies that way, because why have squads with a bunch of random weapons when you can have some maxed out on Grav Guns and some maxed out on Multimeltas etc. to use for different purposes? In any case, since they said that all current armies and models will be valid, I highly doubt they will take away wargear choices and unit customization entirely.

 Charistoph wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Jep I sure hope they don't go for the option

Here is a warscroll for each unit, they can only buy more dudes no equipment or other options, 90% of your models are now web only and will never get an update so you can all have fun AoS style.

The new TSons units in particular make me wary of this happening here too. We're only a stepping stone away from loosing our armoury...again.

Alternatively, the entire armoury is on the datasheet instead of searching through the book for a reference.

That would work too. Even allows for adjusting points, but I don't see that happening lol.

Aside from points, that's what every AoS Warscroll is.

The downside is that the options may end up being very limited to what's in the box...

Yea I meant with the same amount of choice as you do now, which is a boatload. Including things that don't have models.
And on that topic, how does AoS handle relics?

 Roknar wrote:

And on that topic, how does AoS handle relics?

Relics work very differently in AoS. Any Hero gets one, as long as its not a named model. You DON'T roll for it, you CHOOSE it. Unless you want to. Then for every Battalion (Formation) you can have another Hero take a Relic. A Hero can only have 1 Relic. IIRC you can take multiples of a Relic. So if you have 2 Battalions you can have 3 Relics on 3 different Heroes and they can all be the same.

We talking about the same thing here?. What you described sounds more like warlord traits then relics? I'm talking about things like the axe of blind fury.

 Roknar wrote:
We talking about the same thing here?. What you described sounds more like warlord traits then relics? I'm talking about things like the axe of blind fury.

Unlike in 40k you can either choose to random roll it.. or Pick things. Warlord Traits? You pick it. Magic Powers/Prayers? You pick it. Relics? You pick it.

The only random rolling you do is if you WANT to, but yes you can select Relics and give them to people, they don't tend to replace things and tend to give bonuses to the hero in question. For example the new Blades of Khorne has the Mark of the Destroyer which doubles all your weapons attacks but if you fail to kill anything you become a chaos spawn.

Hmm, after the debacle that was AoS I remain to be persuaded that GW can do anything for the better.

oh man, picking warlord traits would make for some nice new flavors of stanky cheese in the current game

 davou wrote:
oh man, picking warlord traits would make for some nice new flavors of stanky cheese in the current game

Yup...and it makes Warlord Traits effectively pointless, since it would be just another way for certain people to do the "I need to take the most effective option".

I liked pre-GHB Age of Sigmar and the way it worked there.
Each type of Hero had a special "Command Ability" they could use. It was specific to that Hero, and only the one who was your General could use their Command Ability.

Some really, really high end Heroes had a Command Ability/trait native to them which allowed all Heroes to use their Command Abilities and some formations allowed for that as well...but it was far from common.

Every edition pretty much wipes the codex slate clean. The community was FAR too accepting of the codex bloat in 7th, I eagerly await the streamlining - even if the codexes I've bought in the last 6 months just become shelf reference material.

 Roknar wrote:
We talking about the same thing here?. What you described sounds more like warlord traits then relics? I'm talking about things like the axe of blind fury.

Warlord Traits are Command Abilities in AoS and each Hero has one but only the General can use theirs. The GH and the newer faction books have additional Command Abilities and you can do the same as with Relics: choose or roll. However, they work differently from Warlord Traits. While Warlord Traits tend to be a passive bonus, Command Abilities need to be activated by your General every turn and each General always has at least 1 Command, even if they don't have one listed in their profile. The basic rules give an ability that allows one unit within 18" ignore Battleshock.

So as an example:
My General is a Lord of Change. I can give him a Relic and choose Sentient Weapons which does not allow enemy units to benefit from modifiers to their saves (like a +1 from Cover). I can also give him a Command Ability and take Magical Supremacy which increases his spell unbind from 18" to 27", but I have to use that instead of his other Command Abilities (this is part of where AoS tactics start to show). I can also give him an additional spell from the Deamon Lore of my choice. Again, I can either look at the list and choose or randomly roll for all of these.

Also, since points work differently in AoS, there is no cost associated with the Relic. It's effectively a free upgrade for the Hero

 master of ordinance wrote:
Hmm, after the debacle that was AoS I remain to be persuaded that GW can do anything for the better.

AoS may have been a debacle at release, but in its current state a majority of people seem pretty pleased with it. It certainly seems that AoS has a fun and vital energy which current 40k lacks almost entirely. The only people who are truly invested in current 40k are min-maxing tournament tryhards who only care about cheesing their way to wins. A majority of other people are in it mainly for the collecting and hobby side, or are playing 30k and AoS for fun because they don't have a cut-throat, cookie cutter meta where the only thing that matters is winning and the only way to win is outdo your opponents' willingness to be a sheisty cheesemonger.

ERJAK wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:
To me The Gathering Storm feels a bit like End Times. But thanks to the FAQ i am still optimistic.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I played Warhammer Fantasy and the game ended up worse than i'd ever feared it could in AoS and thought people were crazy thinking it'd be as bad as they said and it was worse than that.

Just take this from experience. Have a back-up plan if things hit the crapper. Go to X-wing or something. Don't buy any gathering storm models as it'll be a slap in the face that you paid hundreds just to be competitive only to have all the rules change and become a game you disliked. I still have unfinished stormfiends and a mostly broken vermin lord from when GW switched to AoS. All my in progress Fantasy models remain unbuilt and never will be. Just putting it this way if you're thinking about buying more GW models. DON'T. Wait and see and don't have high hopes so that maybe you'll feel better when GW possibly screws over all of us.

If you want to have a good Warhammer Fantasy experience take a look at Warhammer CE. I really like it. I have played a few AoS games and decided it is not for me. The lack of WS, BS, S and T and the almost non existens of tactic except "do i push this unit in the big pile of CC or not" All this just doesn't appeal to me.

See if you just stopped at 'it's not for me' that would be fine, not everygame appeals to every player, but then you add on the tactics thing and ruin it.

Warhammer Fantasy was LITERALLY 'push big blocks of units in a pile of CC or not' except the answer was always 'not until turn 4 when my magic has obliterated 3/4ths of his army while our big tough melee units stare at each other longingly'. People got 'boredom' and 'tactics' confused a lot in that game.

Not seeing tactics in sigmar just means you suck at sigmar and if you go to even small local events and try that you'll get tabled every game even against narrative armies.

I was talking about 6th & 7th Edition of WHF. i didn’t liked the 8th Edition. Because like you said magic was way to powerful and some other things like random charge distances. And getting the charge didn’t matter that much because you didn’t lose attacks from losing models. And if we are talking about WoC vs Bretonia yes most thing were decided in CC. but if you played Wood Elves vs Empire for example it was a very tactical game. You could redirect unit with a throw away unit and lead the of the table so that unit was out of the game for 2 turns and such things unit facing mattered etc.

 Luciferian wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Hmm, after the debacle that was AoS I remain to be persuaded that GW can do anything for the better.

AoS may have been a debacle at release, but in its current state a majority of people seem pretty pleased with it. It certainly seems that AoS has a fun and vital energy which current 40k lacks almost entirely. The only people who are truly invested in current 40k are min-maxing tournament tryhards who only care about cheesing their way to wins. A majority of other people are in it mainly for the collecting and hobby side, or are playing 30k and AoS for fun because they don't have a cut-throat, cookie cutter meta where the only thing that matters is winning and the only way to win is outdo your opponents' willingness to be a sheisty cheesemonger.

I really hope they do something about this and reward fluffy armies. GW needs to adjust the point costs cuz that’s an easy ans almost the only way to balance the game. If a Wk would cost as much as a barbed hierodule we wouldn’t see 4 or more of them in a 1850p army

 Luciferian wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Hmm, after the debacle that was AoS I remain to be persuaded that GW can do anything for the better.

AoS may have been a debacle at release, but in its current state a majority of people seem pretty pleased with it. It certainly seems that AoS has a fun and vital energy which current 40k lacks almost entirely. The only people who are truly invested in current 40k are min-maxing tournament tryhards who only care about cheesing their way to wins. A majority of other people are in it mainly for the collecting and hobby side, or are playing 30k and AoS for fun because they don't have a cut-throat, cookie cutter meta where the only thing that matters is winning and the only way to win is outdo your opponents' willingness to be a sheisty cheesemonger.

Well let's be honest AoS is full of people who think basic math is hard and that rolling 40 dice is the epitome of tactical wargaming and have to have there hand held incase the opponent actually tries to win reulting in them either flipping the table or bursting into , see I can do sterotyping and over generalisation. For an ultra casual game full of people who abhor the thought of competition or even trying to win the game it's amazing how it's attracted people who manage to sound worse than tournement 40k and warmahordes players.

SeanDrake wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Hmm, after the debacle that was AoS I remain to be persuaded that GW can do anything for the better.

AoS may have been a debacle at release, but in its current state a majority of people seem pretty pleased with it. It certainly seems that AoS has a fun and vital energy which current 40k lacks almost entirely. The only people who are truly invested in current 40k are min-maxing tournament tryhards who only care about cheesing their way to wins. A majority of other people are in it mainly for the collecting and hobby side, or are playing 30k and AoS for fun because they don't have a cut-throat, cookie cutter meta where the only thing that matters is winning and the only way to win is outdo your opponents' willingness to be a sheisty cheesemonger.

Well let's be honest AoS is full of people who think basic math is hard and that rolling 40 dice is the epitome of tactical wargaming and have to have there hand held incase the opponent actually tries to win reulting in them either flipping the table or bursting into , see I can do sterotyping and over generalisation. For an ultra casual game full of people who abhor the thought of competition or even trying to win the game it's amazing how it's attracted people who manage to sound worse than tournement 40k and warmahordes players.

See above for someone who thinks cramming as many riptides as possible into a list is tactical skill.