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I think powers of the C'Tan will get rolled into the psychic phase, it would be weird for a librarian to counter them, but that's a sacrifice I'd be happy to make if I get to choose which powers I'm using. This is the kind of streamlining we've come to expect, and I have to say I'm pretty happy about it.

BomBomHotdog wrote:

As for Mortal Wounds. In AoS Mortal Wounds are mostly regulated to Magic and some special attacks. It's not a super common ability outside of Magic but all factions do have some kind of access to it on non-wizards. On top of that there are rules that let you discount Mortal Wounds, usually on a 6, and usually double as an extra save against normal saves.

Thats a problem with AoS. I think it's WAY too easy to get mortal wounds for some races. This was one of the worries I had regarding 8th, the age of mortal wounds spam. Stormcast has tons of mortal wounds, Skaven got easy access and so does a lot of the other factions. I just played a Khorne vs Stormcast where my friend delivered 10 mortal wounds in the first turn against me. It wasn't even fun.

Jacksmiles wrote:

 bomtek80 wrote:

Jacksmiles wrote:
I'm excited for this. I like that they kept mastery levels rather than everyone just gets 1 spell per turn (typically) like AOS. Everything is just so so good-looking and I'm so hyped.

They never stated they were keeping Mastery levels in the article. They only mentioned them as a being a previous mechanic of the game. So I'm betting that the generic Librarians and psykers will be limited to casting and blocking a single power per turn. Casting/blocking more than one power will probably be limited to special characters and/or units like the Eldar Farseer and Tigurius.

"You can cast as many spells as their datasheet states (which would previously be the same as their Mastery Level)."

Close enough? Dunno why you need to play semantics with it. It's possible everything generic will be the equilavent of current ML1, but "the same as their [current] mastery level" read to me like this won't be the case, and I hope that's true.

You can say they haven't said Mastery Level is in, and that's true - but they're implying that datasheets will state how many spells a model can cast, and there's no reason yet to believe that number is typically 1. I'm hoping they'll keep the current "buy more mastery levels" system.

I am in agreement with this, to me it reads as if:


"This Librarian has Mastery Level 2 in the 7th Ed Codex. His 8th Ed Codex will permit him to cast 2 powers maximum per turn, selected/rolled from this list of powers: XYZ"


There's nothing to suggest that they will limit base psykers and in fact that kinda spoils the narrative elements of bringing along a powerful psyker of your army, and only special charcaters being ML2 or higher. They specifically mention Magnus as a bad thing for psykers.


The new powers mechanic seems to be a blend of 5th Edition leadership test and 6th/7th Ed Warp Charge. Roll 2D6 and beat a particular score. Except instead of being Ld, where 99% of psykers have Ld9-10 anyway, they test based on the difficulty of the power. They also mention "a psyker's mastery" will play a role in casting and denying. Here is my theory.


"To cast a psychic power, roll 2D6 and add the model's Mastery Level. If the score is equal to or greater than the Warp Charge, the power is cast."

This would mean a surpremely powerful psyker like Tigurius, ML3, would pretty much always be able to cast a basic power like Smite (5+ Warp Charge) while even a ML1 psyker would have a very good chance, while a Warp Charge 11 power (eg, Invisibility) would need a superbly high roll of 10+ to pass, but for Tiggy would only need 8, and Eldrad only 7.

I assume denying would work in a similar way to old psychic hoods given that any psyker within a particular range would be able to deny. I imagine

"To deny an enemy psychic power, roll 2D6 and add the model's ML value. If the score is greater than the opponent's psychic test roll, the power is nullified."

So, a ML1 Psyker casts smite, rolls and adds for a total of 8. ML3 Tiggy comes in and rolls 3 on both dice, and adds his mastery level for total of 9, denying the power.

This is only my theory but it seems very very streamlined and takes the best of both sides of 5th and 6-7th Eds.


As for Perils of the Warp, I could see going back to 5th on that as well, with or being Perils (maybe inflicting D3 and D6 mortal wounds respectively, as the psyker fails to harnass the Warp or draws WAAAAYYYY too much power than he can handle?). This would mean that my earlier example of a ML3+ psyker pretty much auto-casting a basic ability like Smite would still have a chance to hurt or kill himself through this.



Again, this is just my theory based on what they've revealed, though I like this idea myself and hope this is at least partially accurate. Also, if I've nailed it, let it be officially stated that I called it first

My Grey Knights are loving these changes.

My Space Marines are suffering a bit.

 Grimgold wrote:
I think powers of the C'Tan will get rolled into the psychic phase, it would be weird for a librarian to counter them, but that's a sacrifice I'd be happy to make if I get to choose which powers I'm using. This is the kind of streamlining we've come to expect, and I have to say I'm pretty happy about it.

It would make the most sense for that to be the case (edit - I mean mechanically). Edit 2 - looks like it was confirmed on facebook that this will not be true.

As far as librarian countering them, envision something like the librarian opening a hole into the warp for whatever the c'tan shoots to go through instead of hitting the space marines or something. It doesn't necessarily have to be considered magic countering magic, could be a magic shield thrown up at the last second that the power bounces off (but doesn't have an actual spell for as it's purely instinctual maybe).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Marmatag wrote:

My Space Marines are suffering a bit.

Due to the lack of ap on bolters now or something else? Just curious.

Grimgold wrote:I think powers of the C'Tan will get rolled into the psychic phase, it would be weird for a librarian to counter them, but that's a sacrifice I'd be happy to make if I get to choose which powers I'm using. This is the kind of streamlining we've come to expect, and I have to say I'm pretty happy about it.

Cayhn wrote:

BomBomHotdog wrote:

As for Mortal Wounds. In AoS Mortal Wounds are mostly regulated to Magic and some special attacks. It's not a super common ability outside of Magic but all factions do have some kind of access to it on non-wizards. On top of that there are rules that let you discount Mortal Wounds, usually on a 6, and usually double as an extra save against normal saves.

Thats a problem with AoS. I think it's WAY too easy to get mortal wounds for some races. This was one of the worries I had regarding 8th, the age of mortal wounds spam. Stormcast has tons of mortal wounds, Skaven got easy access and so does a lot of the other factions. I just played a Khorne vs Stormcast where my friend delivered 10 mortal wounds in the first turn against me. It wasn't even fun.

I would say that for races like Necrons, Deldar and Tau, some of their more powerful weaponry would have the Mortal Wounds rule. For example, C'tan powers might get rolled into the Psychic Phase and be counted as the same (although not psychic, close enough). Or, the most powerful weapons such as the Doomscythe Deathray, Annihilator Ark cannon, Tau Railguns or ion weapons, to name some, would get MW special rule.






















I also want to expand on my earlier theory for Denying in the new format and apply it to Tyranids, as I think this could be an opportunity for them to really get back their mojo, at least in terms of Shadow in the Warp and anti-psykerism.


Assuming my earlier theory was correct about how powers are cast and denied, here are my two theorys on Shadow in the Warp

Version 1


This is the more fluff version, that makes it more difficult to access the Warp and thus receive injury, either through overstraining themselves or going mad from the billions of chittering voices in their brain.


Version 2


This is a more neutral version that is more about psychic defence for the Tyranids and one I would be happy to play with.

It should also be noted that in AoS, you can only attempt to cast a spell once per turn. If that follows, Smite spam will not be a thing.

 curran12 wrote:
It should also be noted that in AoS, you can only attempt to cast a spell once per turn. If that follows, Smite spam will not be a thing.

Just one per turn? Is that per-caster, or do you get to pick ONE thing to cast every turn? That would severely limit psychic's potential.

 Jambles wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
It should also be noted that in AoS, you can only attempt to cast a spell once per turn. If that follows, Smite spam will not be a thing.

Just one per turn? Is that per-caster, or do you get to pick ONE thing to cast every turn? That would severely limit psychic's potential.

Each wizard can cast as many spells as it says on their profile/warscroll, however, each spell may only be attempted once per turn per army.

For example, one of the universal AoS spells is Mystic Shield, a straight +1 to a unit's save that pretty much all wizards have access to. However, despite every wizard having access, your army may only attempt to cast it once on your turn, so it can't be sapmmed. In this case, every psyker may have Smite, but you're only gonna shoot it once per turn, though each of your psykers will likely have a list of other spells, unique to them, that they can manifest.

It's the first of the three rules of 1;

Number one, you can only attempt to cast a spell once per turn.

They did it because spells were not balanced at all, and the number of casters was quite high. So you'd have an entire army with arcane armor (which with cover could get saves to 1+), or summoning an army out of thin air. Even fans of AoS (which I count myself among) don't like to talk about the dark days before the general handbook.

However, the rules of 1 were a band-aid to staunch the bleeding. With thoughtful design, they wouldn't have needed them in the first place, which I'm hoping is the case in 40k cause they felt like kludges until faction spell lists started to come out.

So after discussing this, we came to some realizations:


1. They say psykers are limited to cast the number of powers defined in their mastery level

2. It makes no mention of the powers and schools they know, or have access to.

3. Therefore, it's possible your psykers could have access to multiple schools, and could pick and choose.

I really, really hope it's like this. Having literal mages running around on the field with a lot of diverse spells would make the game so COOL.

 curran12 wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
It should also be noted that in AoS, you can only attempt to cast a spell once per turn. If that follows, Smite spam will not be a thing.

Just one per turn? Is that per-caster, or do you get to pick ONE thing to cast every turn? That would severely limit psychic's potential.

Each wizard can cast as many spells as it says on their profile/warscroll, however, each spell may only be attempted once per turn per army.

For example, one of the universal AoS spells is Mystic Shield, a straight +1 to a unit's save that pretty much all wizards have access to. However, despite every wizard having access, your army may only attempt to cast it once on your turn, so it can't be sapmmed. In this case, every psyker may have Smite, but you're only gonna shoot it once per turn, though each of your psykers will likely have a list of other spells, unique to them, that they can manifest.

Got it! I like this rule, like you say removes spamming the same powers over the whole army.

 Jambles wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
It should also be noted that in AoS, you can only attempt to cast a spell once per turn. If that follows, Smite spam will not be a thing.

Just one per turn? Is that per-caster, or do you get to pick ONE thing to cast every turn? That would severely limit psychic's potential.

Each different spell can only be cast (or attempted to cast) once per turn. So you could have 3 Wizards on the field, each knowing the 2 base spells, Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield, and they each have their own spells. You can cast each spell once, fail or success with one of those Wizards, and they each have so many spells that they can cast.

It helps to cut down on some powerful combos, and gives you a reason to not rely completely on magic for your armies. When you are forced to choose between buffing your guys, doing some piddly ranged damage, or going all out for a powerful spell, it really makes you think more tactically about what to do, as you can only do so much with your wizard, and it really makes you look for ways to increase your casting rolls and dispell your opponent's spells, or to spend your army points on just more guys on the field.

Each spell can only be used once per turn, period (unless a special rule says otherwise). So, each wizard can use a different spell, but you can't use the same spell from multiple different wizards (even if it fails).

jade_angel wrote:
Each spell can only be used once per turn, period (unless a special rule says otherwise). So, each wizard can use a different spell, but you can't use the same spell from multiple different wizards (even if it fails).

I don't know if I like that for 40k though.

I'd keep it as the current 7ed 'one power per unit'.

So it's kinda like the psykic powers system from first edition dark heresy? I'm okay with that

My thoughts immediately went to Tzeentch Horrors: not only are these guys troop choices but they are psychers with split on top of that! If they're still psychers in 8th they will become the most overpowered unit. (Just a prediction should they not change them)

 mrhappyface wrote:
My thoughts immediately went to Tzeentch Horrors: not only are these guys troop choices but they are psychers with split on top of that! If they're still psychers in 8th they will become the most overpowered unit. (Just a prediction should they not change them)

Perhaps they will not be psykers but simply have ranged weapons, ie, Bolt of Tzeentch, Str 4 AP -2 D1

 Deadshot wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
My thoughts immediately went to Tzeentch Horrors: not only are these guys troop choices but they are psychers with split on top of that! If they're still psychers in 8th they will become the most overpowered unit. (Just a prediction should they not change them)

Perhaps they will not be psykers but simply have ranged weapons, ie, Bolt of Tzeentch, Str 4 AP -2 D1

IIRC in AoS Pink Horrors are wizards but the whole unit casts/dispels once per turn, not each model. Blue Horrors are not wizards. Both Pink and Blue Horrors have a magical flames ranged attack that doesn't count as a spell, it just counts as a normal ranged attack.

Who knows what things will be like in 8th Ed. 40k.

Grey Knights interceptor squads will be the go to anti-death-star unit. Shunt 30", smite deathstar, follow up with psycannons which are going to get better when they overhaul salvo rules, or just stick to incinerators and deal a pile of auto hits. Even basic strike squads are going to get a huge boost of being able to deepstrike in turn 1 in a nemesis strike force and smite a unit well above their points level.

 Renesco P. Blue wrote:
Grey Knights interceptor squads will be the go to anti-death-star unit. Shunt 30", smite deathstar, follow up with psycannons which are going to get better when they overhaul salvo rules, or just stick to incinerators and deal a pile of auto hits. Even basic strike squads are going to get a huge boost of being able to deepstrike in turn 1 in a nemesis strike force and smite a unit well above their points level.

Assuming Shunt is still a thing, that it's still 30"

Also Nemesis strike force will be gone GW have said there will be 14 detachments available in the new rules

 Renesco P. Blue wrote:
Grey Knights interceptor squads will be the go to anti-death-star unit. Shunt 30", smite deathstar, follow up with psycannons which are going to get better when they overhaul salvo rules, or just stick to incinerators and deal a pile of auto hits. Even basic strike squads are going to get a huge boost of being able to deepstrike in turn 1 in a nemesis strike force and smite a unit well above their points level.

and where is write they will be like that? are you aware each unit will deeply change in 8th ed?

Here are my hopes:

1. This seems to be a direct port from AoS. I'm hoping that they add the rule of 1. It's not stated in the article whether or not it's going to be in there. I'm hoping that it is.

2. I'm hoping that they remove all of the OP powers like Eldritch storm and invisibility.

I don't care what the difficulty of casting it is. They don't belong in the game.

 Traditio wrote:
Here are my hopes:

1. This seems to be a direct port from AoS. I'm hoping that they add the rule of 1. It's not stated in the article whether or not it's going to be in there. I'm hoping that it is.

2. I'm hoping that they remove all of the OP powers like Eldritch storm and invisibility.

I don't care what the difficulty of casting it is. They don't belong in the game.

I would prefer some psychic powers still be very powerful like that, but cost per warp charge, you choose your powers, and ones like invisibility/storm become warp charge 3. so a mastery level 3 psyche can buy it but then that is the only power and you better really hope you get off that cast by throwing enough dice at it and risking perils.

I would rather Invisibility just be straight up gone. While I don't mind strong powers Invisibility is such a game changer in so many ways that never should've gotten through.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Traditio wrote:
Here are my hopes:

1. This seems to be a direct port from AoS. I'm hoping that they add the rule of 1. It's not stated in the article whether or not it's going to be in there. I'm hoping that it is.

2. I'm hoping that they remove all of the OP powers like Eldritch storm and invisibility.

I don't care what the difficulty of casting it is. They don't belong in the game.

I would prefer some psychic powers still be very powerful like that, but cost per warp charge, you choose your powers, and ones like invisibility/storm become warp charge 3. so a mastery level 3 psyche can buy it but then that is the only power and you better really hope you get off that cast by throwing enough dice at it and risking perils.

That's not how psychic powers are going to work in 8th edition. It's going to be just like in AoS.

The way that you cast a power is that psychic powers have a difficulty, say, 5, and you roll 2d6. If you beat the difficulty, you cast the power, assuming your opponent doesn't try to deny.

So 5 is actually very easy to pull off, since the average 2d6 roll is a 7.

 Traditio wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Traditio wrote:
Here are my hopes:

1. This seems to be a direct port from AoS. I'm hoping that they add the rule of 1. It's not stated in the article whether or not it's going to be in there. I'm hoping that it is.

2. I'm hoping that they remove all of the OP powers like Eldritch storm and invisibility.

I don't care what the difficulty of casting it is. They don't belong in the game.

I would prefer some psychic powers still be very powerful like that, but cost per warp charge, you choose your powers, and ones like invisibility/storm become warp charge 3. so a mastery level 3 psyche can buy it but then that is the only power and you better really hope you get off that cast by throwing enough dice at it and risking perils.

That's not how psychic powers are going to work in 8th edition. It's going to be just like in AoS.

The way that you cast a power is that psychic powers have a difficulty, say, 5, and you roll 2d6. If you beat the difficulty, you cast the power, assuming your opponent doesn't try to deny.

So 5 is actually very easy to pull off, since the average 2d6 roll is a 7.

have they said how psychic powers will work, I was just speculating. for 2d6 system like AOS I would like to see super powerful spells like that be a 9+

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Traditio wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Traditio wrote:
Here are my hopes:

1. This seems to be a direct port from AoS. I'm hoping that they add the rule of 1. It's not stated in the article whether or not it's going to be in there. I'm hoping that it is.

2. I'm hoping that they remove all of the OP powers like Eldritch storm and invisibility.

I don't care what the difficulty of casting it is. They don't belong in the game.

I would prefer some psychic powers still be very powerful like that, but cost per warp charge, you choose your powers, and ones like invisibility/storm become warp charge 3. so a mastery level 3 psyche can buy it but then that is the only power and you better really hope you get off that cast by throwing enough dice at it and risking perils.

That's not how psychic powers are going to work in 8th edition. It's going to be just like in AoS.

The way that you cast a power is that psychic powers have a difficulty, say, 5, and you roll 2d6. If you beat the difficulty, you cast the power, assuming your opponent doesn't try to deny.

So 5 is actually very easy to pull off, since the average 2d6 roll is a 7.

have they said how psychic powers will work, I was just speculating. for 2d6 system like AOS I would like to see super powerful spells like that be a 9+

Yeah they have. It's what we're discussing in this thread. I can't link from work but it's on the Warhammer Community site as of today.

This sounds painful.
Straight up 2d6 results of 10, 11 and 12 inflicting unsavable wounds as opposed fearing a double six and the Perils table.
High risk, questionable reward.

 Jambles wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
It should also be noted that in AoS, you can only attempt to cast a spell once per turn. If that follows, Smite spam will not be a thing.

Just one per turn? Is that per-caster, or do you get to pick ONE thing to cast every turn? That would severely limit psychic's potential.

presumably he means if I have Tigerous, whose ML3, I can't have him cast Smite 3 times a turn.