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I don't remotely agree. 80 is still way too much. Call it edition lag, but ba never got free units. Problem is that almost everything that goes in said pod is trash becsuse marine infantry and characters are trash.
   
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 Marmatag wrote:

Currently drop pods are in 0% of the tournament placing marine lists. There is a reason for that. In their current incantation they are useless. Do you want the unit to stay useless?


This assumes it's impossible to make them useless without allowing centurions etc and would also then logically mean drop pods are and will always be useless for normal marines...

That's unimaginative and lousy game design.

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Phanobi





East Bay, Ca, US

I proposed several things that would dramatically change them. I don't think it's lazy.

In any case, i'm not here to solve the world's problems. I play Tyranids as my main army. I understand that the Tyrannocyte isn't great. One of its biggest use cases is the Swarmlord. Which is a monster. Marines don't have a way to deep strike the equivalent. Different use cases.

Right now they could be 35 points and i don't see many people using them, because drop podding marines, and ONLY MARINES, doesn't have much value, because marines don't have value.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
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 Marmatag wrote:
I proposed several things that would dramatically change them. I don't think it's lazy.

In any case, i'm not here to solve the world's problems. I play Tyranids as my main army. I understand that the Tyrannocyte isn't great. One of its biggest use cases is the Swarmlord. Which is a monster. Marines don't have a way to deep strike the equivalent. Different use cases.

Right now they could be 35 points and i don't see many people using them, because drop podding marines, and ONLY MARINES, doesn't have much value, because marines don't have value.


Indeed this. I would still barely even consider pods even at their old price. Virtually everything the marines want to deep strike already can thanks to termie armor or jump packs. Also the pod creates an annoying situation in which you must have another unit deployed to keep your deep strike count legal.

Maybe if they start allowing primaris passengers I might do some hellblasters in one.

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While I wouldn't mind seeing dreadnaughts coming out of pods again, are pods really in that bad of shape these days?

Battle scribe says its 85 points for a basic drop pod. It's fallacious to compare that cost to another army's wargear from 7th edition, but... well... two webway portals in 7th would have cost me 70 points plus the cost of the character carrying them. An extra 15 points for a body that can plop on an objective and requires anti-tank firepower to remove in a hurry doesn't sound so bad.

Speaking as a guy who has mostly played his craftworlders this edition, I have access to Webway Strike and I would still consider using a drop pod in my army if I could.

I keep seeing people saying that drop pods are bad because the units that can ride in them are bad, but surely there are some options in the massive marine unit catalogue that wouldn't mind popping up on the enemy's doorstep.

I'm probably just showing my lack of 8th edition marine experience, but...

*Multi-melta devastators backed up by a jump pack captain firing 8 melta-range shots...
*Several drop pods' worth of min-sized Black Templar squads...
*Good old sternguard...
*Maybe even the special weapon half of a combat squadded tac squad...

...all seem like options that would work reasonably, at least in moderately-optimized friendly games. Use the Raven Guard stratagem to infiltrate the rest of your army into screening position and have most of your force in their face turn one. Use Black Templar tactics and MSU to strangle gunlines with tons of rerollable turn 1 charges. Do that plasma voodoo Dark Angels do by plopping a plasma-heavy squad in with a pod.

Pods aren't cheap enough to easily hand one out to every single squad any more, but 85 points doesn't seem so bad for something that lets you deepstrike 10 models that normally can't deepstrike.

That said, I wouldn't mind pods getting cheaper provided they dropped down to like... 2 wounds or something. All you really need to break is the storm bolter, after all. After that, it's toasty metal box sitting around quietly. Even then, I'd feel weird pricing them below 50 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel732 wrote:
I don't remotely agree. 80 is still way too much. Call it edition lag, but ba never got free units. Problem is that almost everything that goes in said pod is trash becsuse marine infantry and characters are trash.


Nitpick: Didn't BA get their free drop pods back in 5th edition by opting not to put jump packs on their assault marines?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Marmatag wrote:
What would it take to make drop pods useful? Or, what would it take for you to include drop pods in your competitive lists?

My proposal:

1. Drop pods can carry a total of 10 wounds. Since there is no metric for size in this game, it doesn't make sense to restrict Centurions, Terminators, or Dreadnoughts from riding in drop pods. Nor does it make sense to restrict Primaris from riding in drop pods. This does mean you could have other vehicles riding inside a drop pod.

2. Units disembarking from a drop pod must be wholly within 3" of the pod. The drop pod must be set up 9" away from the nearest enemy unit but this restriction does not apply to the units inside of the pod itself.

3. The drop pod itself is taken as a Fast Attack choice.

I think these changes would make drop pods pretty solid, and useful at their current exorbitant cost.

What do you think?


1. Pods don't make sense for temrinators at the moment, and podding in a vehicle other than a dread is silly, but I'm otherwise alright with this. Other transports in the game say, "Unit X counts as 2 models for transport purposes." This is just a less awkward version of doing the same thing while explaining the "size" of 20 different marine units.

2. Nah. The 9" away thing is a good limitation to have. It gives you a reasonable chance to make a charge without retaliation, but you're more likely to fail the charge than to pass. A 7" charge means you're more likely to make the charge than not. 6" is an "easy" charge. This also might combo oddly with deepstriking vehicles. Is a dreadnaught's base small enough to be placed within 3" of a pod? How about a rhino chassis?

3. Eh. Maybe. It wouldn't really break anything, but I'm not sure there's a better example of a "dedicated transport" than the orbital re-entry pod that delivers its passengers and then does nothing else all game. What would be the point of making them FA? Just to situationally get more command points out of them? Feels gamely and not particularly fluffy.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/22 01:45:34


 
   
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Yeah, in 5th. It was reduced price. Might have been free. Not sure anymore.
   
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Do you want drop pods to be great once again?

Just limit the deepstriking abilities, like cutting it from termies or jump pack dudes and allow pods to carry dreads, terminators, wulfen, etc...

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Martel732 wrote:
I don't remotely agree. 80 is still way too much. Call it edition lag, but ba never got free units. Problem is that almost everything that goes in said pod is trash becsuse marine infantry and characters are trash.


Marine Infantry are tooooooo fragile for their points in the 6th, 7th and 8th editions, while they are too slow in movement. This misery is coupled by their weapons which are only decently strong when they are close up towards enemy. So I think a cheap transport which could either (i) protect them for a while (i.e. Rhino) or (ii) get them to where they need to be and launch an overwhelming alpha strike, is really really important for them to become at least decent, and that is the reason why those humble Tactical Marines suddenly become "broken" in the bottom half of 7th edition period.
Generally speaking, I agree that 35pts for Droppod might be undercosted, but 80pts mark is defintely overcosted. A fair price in my eye for Droppod and Rhino is around 50-60pts.
Else, to get rid of the "marine player edition lag" somebody mentioned, we'd better just take Guilliman to buff the 2 Devastator Squads coming out of the pod each with 4 Grav Cannons at hand, in any decently competitive games. And accept being called "that is tooooo OP"!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/22 15:17:33


 
   
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Try 50 and see if it gets used. That's all we can really do.
   
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I like the changes but they also need a points drop in addition to the changes. It should be cheaper than a rhino because it can't move. So the 50-60 range seems about right with the ability to get into 6 " of an opponent. Currently it's worth about 20 points.

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 niv-mizzet wrote:
I would still barely even consider pods even at their old price. Virtually everything the marines want to deep strike already can thanks to termie armor or jump packs. Also the pod creates an annoying situation in which you must have another unit deployed to keep your deep strike count legal.

Maybe if they start allowing primaris passengers I might do some hellblasters in one.


I'd argue GravCannon Devs compete with Hellblasters. 10 Hellblasters average 8.8 wounds (rapid firing) against MEQ, at a cost of 330. Grav Devs (on the move) average 6.2 MEQ wounds at only 182* points. Since the Devs are only a 5 man squad, you can fit two packs of them in a Pod if that's what you're after. Hellblasters fare better against vehicles with their higher strength (17.7 rapid fire, 8.8 long range vs Rhino Eq. Devs a constant 6.2 up to 24") but since Devs are only 55% the cost you can afford the second squad and put it up to 12.4 at 24" range.

*Squad is 5-man, 4 Grav Cannons and a Cherub.

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East Bay, Ca, US

People list things that don't work in pods...

You put multi-melta devastator squad, pair with a captain, and drop in. Well guess what. The chaff keeps you out of range to melta and you're effectively firing 4x weaker lascannon shots, when you could just deploy the squad with lascannons and have higher strength at greater range with no risk, no pod, and not requiring a captain.

I get that you want to have an opinion here but that kind of suggestion leads me to believe you don't have a dog in this race.

And dropping a pod to 2 wounds would make them laughable in an ITC game, because they'd be a scoring unit for your opponent. You'd be handing your opponent a point, or more easily getting the +1 for killing more units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel732 wrote:
Try 50 and see if it gets used. That's all we can really do.


They will not get used at this price.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/22 21:58:09


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
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Problem is that cherub takes up a spot in the pod meaning you only get one per pod (which sucks), right?

On the other side those grav + guilliman are just about the most powerful combo in the dex but with so much -1 to hit out there moving in addition to that -1 really hurts even with gman re-rolls (43% hit rate down from 88% stationary vs non -1 targets)
   
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bananathug wrote:
Problem is that cherub takes up a spot in the pod meaning you only get one per pod (which sucks), right?

On the other side those grav + guilliman are just about the most powerful combo in the dex but with so much -1 to hit out there moving in addition to that -1 really hurts even with gman re-rolls (43% hit rate down from 88% stationary vs non -1 targets)


Well, when I pod I use a Chapter Master and try not to fire at harder to hit items, (Although I've done that too). But I think I'd still prefer missing a bit more over starting on the table and getting shot first.

I don't think the Cherub counts as a passenger. (Not that I stack multiple Dev Squads in one Pod, I prefer the padded squads)

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 Marmatag wrote:
People list things that don't work in pods...

You put multi-melta devastator squad, pair with a captain, and drop in. Well guess what. The chaff keeps you out of range to melta and you're effectively firing 4x weaker lascannon shots, when you could just deploy the squad with lascannons and have higher strength at greater range with no risk, no pod, and not requiring a captain.

I get that you want to have an opinion here but that kind of suggestion leads me to believe you don't have a dog in this race.

And dropping a pod to 2 wounds would make them laughable in an ITC game, because they'd be a scoring unit for your opponent. You'd be handing your opponent a point, or more easily getting the +1 for killing more units.


Fair points. Regarding the devastator thing specifically though, this sounds more like an issue with multi meltas than with drop pods, no? If we all agree that the purpose of a drop pod is basically to grant deepstrike to non-deepstriking units, then I don't really see how it fails to accomplish that. If I want to deepstrike multiple squads of, say, true born (which have a similar role to sternguard), then I'd have to pay 3 command points to do so. A drop pod costs ~85 points points instead and then possibly sticks around on an objective (depending on where it lands) until the other guy wastes anti-tank firepower on it.

As I mentioned before, I'd definitely be looking at fielding them in one of my aeldari armies if I had access to them, so I feel I must be missing something. On paper, they look pretty good! All these calsl for bringing them back to 35 points just seem bizarre to me. At 35 points, I'd be tempted to take a non-deepstriking pod just to have it sit on an objective and hold back deepstrikers. O_O Is the idea that 35 points is roughly what you should be paying to deepstrike one or two units in? Because that seems like kind of a steal to me.
   
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Wyldhunt wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
People list things that don't work in pods...

You put multi-melta devastator squad, pair with a captain, and drop in. Well guess what. The chaff keeps you out of range to melta and you're effectively firing 4x weaker lascannon shots, when you could just deploy the squad with lascannons and have higher strength at greater range with no risk, no pod, and not requiring a captain.

I get that you want to have an opinion here but that kind of suggestion leads me to believe you don't have a dog in this race.

And dropping a pod to 2 wounds would make them laughable in an ITC game, because they'd be a scoring unit for your opponent. You'd be handing your opponent a point, or more easily getting the +1 for killing more units.


Fair points. Regarding the devastator thing specifically though, this sounds more like an issue with multi meltas than with drop pods, no? If we all agree that the purpose of a drop pod is basically to grant deepstrike to non-deepstriking units, then I don't really see how it fails to accomplish that. If I want to deepstrike multiple squads of, say, true born (which have a similar role to sternguard), then I'd have to pay 3 command points to do so. A drop pod costs ~85 points points instead and then possibly sticks around on an objective (depending on where it lands) until the other guy wastes anti-tank firepower on it.


In 7th, yes the opponent need AT fire to get rid of that Pod landed on Objective if it was carrying Tactical Squad. In 8th, you just need to have 6 Gargoyles close to the same objective in your last turn (i.e. that ensure at least 2 Gargoyles will surivive that stormbolter) and that objective is all yours.
   
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Neophyte2012 wrote:
Wyldhunt wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
People list things that don't work in pods...

You put multi-melta devastator squad, pair with a captain, and drop in. Well guess what. The chaff keeps you out of range to melta and you're effectively firing 4x weaker lascannon shots, when you could just deploy the squad with lascannons and have higher strength at greater range with no risk, no pod, and not requiring a captain.

I get that you want to have an opinion here but that kind of suggestion leads me to believe you don't have a dog in this race.

And dropping a pod to 2 wounds would make them laughable in an ITC game, because they'd be a scoring unit for your opponent. You'd be handing your opponent a point, or more easily getting the +1 for killing more units.


Fair points. Regarding the devastator thing specifically though, this sounds more like an issue with multi meltas than with drop pods, no? If we all agree that the purpose of a drop pod is basically to grant deepstrike to non-deepstriking units, then I don't really see how it fails to accomplish that. If I want to deepstrike multiple squads of, say, true born (which have a similar role to sternguard), then I'd have to pay 3 command points to do so. A drop pod costs ~85 points points instead and then possibly sticks around on an objective (depending on where it lands) until the other guy wastes anti-tank firepower on it.


In 7th, yes the opponent need AT fire to get rid of that Pod landed on Objective if it was carrying Tactical Squad. In 8th, you just need to have 6 Gargoyles close to the same objective in your last turn (i.e. that ensure at least 2 Gargoyles will surivive that stormbolter) and that objective is all yours.


Assuming the drop pod is the only unit that survived to the last round?

   
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 Lance845 wrote:
Neophyte2012 wrote:
Wyldhunt wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
People list things that don't work in pods...

You put multi-melta devastator squad, pair with a captain, and drop in. Well guess what. The chaff keeps you out of range to melta and you're effectively firing 4x weaker lascannon shots, when you could just deploy the squad with lascannons and have higher strength at greater range with no risk, no pod, and not requiring a captain.

I get that you want to have an opinion here but that kind of suggestion leads me to believe you don't have a dog in this race.

And dropping a pod to 2 wounds would make them laughable in an ITC game, because they'd be a scoring unit for your opponent. You'd be handing your opponent a point, or more easily getting the +1 for killing more units.


Fair points. Regarding the devastator thing specifically though, this sounds more like an issue with multi meltas than with drop pods, no? If we all agree that the purpose of a drop pod is basically to grant deepstrike to non-deepstriking units, then I don't really see how it fails to accomplish that. If I want to deepstrike multiple squads of, say, true born (which have a similar role to sternguard), then I'd have to pay 3 command points to do so. A drop pod costs ~85 points points instead and then possibly sticks around on an objective (depending on where it lands) until the other guy wastes anti-tank firepower on it.


In 7th, yes the opponent need AT fire to get rid of that Pod landed on Objective if it was carrying Tactical Squad. In 8th, you just need to have 6 Gargoyles close to the same objective in your last turn (i.e. that ensure at least 2 Gargoyles will surivive that stormbolter) and that objective is all yours.


Assuming the drop pod is the only unit that survived to the last round?


Errrr...... Do you think killing 10 T4 Sv3+ models within 2 game turns is a significant problem for those Exocrine, Dakkafexes, Hive Tyrants, or hordes of Genestealers?
   
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Neophyte2012 wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
Neophyte2012 wrote:
Wyldhunt wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
People list things that don't work in pods...

You put multi-melta devastator squad, pair with a captain, and drop in. Well guess what. The chaff keeps you out of range to melta and you're effectively firing 4x weaker lascannon shots, when you could just deploy the squad with lascannons and have higher strength at greater range with no risk, no pod, and not requiring a captain.

I get that you want to have an opinion here but that kind of suggestion leads me to believe you don't have a dog in this race.

And dropping a pod to 2 wounds would make them laughable in an ITC game, because they'd be a scoring unit for your opponent. You'd be handing your opponent a point, or more easily getting the +1 for killing more units.


Fair points. Regarding the devastator thing specifically though, this sounds more like an issue with multi meltas than with drop pods, no? If we all agree that the purpose of a drop pod is basically to grant deepstrike to non-deepstriking units, then I don't really see how it fails to accomplish that. If I want to deepstrike multiple squads of, say, true born (which have a similar role to sternguard), then I'd have to pay 3 command points to do so. A drop pod costs ~85 points points instead and then possibly sticks around on an objective (depending on where it lands) until the other guy wastes anti-tank firepower on it.


In 7th, yes the opponent need AT fire to get rid of that Pod landed on Objective if it was carrying Tactical Squad. In 8th, you just need to have 6 Gargoyles close to the same objective in your last turn (i.e. that ensure at least 2 Gargoyles will surivive that stormbolter) and that objective is all yours.


Assuming the drop pod is the only unit that survived to the last round?


Errrr...... Do you think killing 10 T4 Sv3+ models within 2 game turns is a significant problem for those Exocrine, Dakkafexes, Hive Tyrants, or hordes of Genestealers?


Are you suggesting the SM players entire army is made up of 1 drop pod and the 10 models that fit inside? And the nid players army is made up of gargoyes, exocrines (plural) dakkafexes (plural) Hive Tyrants (plural) and hordes of gene stealers (as in more than 1 horde). And you think the drop pod would still be alive past turn 1 in this proposed situation?

I assume that if "6 gargoyles" are moving onto an objective with a drop pod on the last round intending to try to survive the storm bolter on the drop pod that it's very likely the SM player has more then just their drop pod alive. Otherwise, I feel like trying to grab a last minute objective is probably pointless. The SM player already lost.

Or to summarize, the scenario presented where 6 gargoyles are a threat to an objective on the last round of the game is completely ridiculous and unrealistic. Your purposefully fabricating a situation where 2 specific units at the tail end of a game exist in a vacuum where for whatever reason nothing else will interact with them. Never mind the fact that gargs just are not a popular option since termagants outshoot them, genestealers out kill them, and hormagaunts out tie up them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/24 10:30:42


   
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This really boils down to marine foot infantry being bad and therefore it should be mega cheap to deep strike in bad units. Tyranid units at least get to be amazing in 8th.
   
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 Lance845 wrote:
Neophyte2012 wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
Neophyte2012 wrote:
Wyldhunt wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
People list things that don't work in pods...

You put multi-melta devastator squad, pair with a captain, and drop in. Well guess what. The chaff keeps you out of range to melta and you're effectively firing 4x weaker lascannon shots, when you could just deploy the squad with lascannons and have higher strength at greater range with no risk, no pod, and not requiring a captain.

I get that you want to have an opinion here but that kind of suggestion leads me to believe you don't have a dog in this race.

And dropping a pod to 2 wounds would make them laughable in an ITC game, because they'd be a scoring unit for your opponent. You'd be handing your opponent a point, or more easily getting the +1 for killing more units.


Fair points. Regarding the devastator thing specifically though, this sounds more like an issue with multi meltas than with drop pods, no? If we all agree that the purpose of a drop pod is basically to grant deepstrike to non-deepstriking units, then I don't really see how it fails to accomplish that. If I want to deepstrike multiple squads of, say, true born (which have a similar role to sternguard), then I'd have to pay 3 command points to do so. A drop pod costs ~85 points points instead and then possibly sticks around on an objective (depending on where it lands) until the other guy wastes anti-tank firepower on it.


In 7th, yes the opponent need AT fire to get rid of that Pod landed on Objective if it was carrying Tactical Squad. In 8th, you just need to have 6 Gargoyles close to the same objective in your last turn (i.e. that ensure at least 2 Gargoyles will surivive that stormbolter) and that objective is all yours.


Assuming the drop pod is the only unit that survived to the last round?


Errrr...... Do you think killing 10 T4 Sv3+ models within 2 game turns is a significant problem for those Exocrine, Dakkafexes, Hive Tyrants, or hordes of Genestealers?


Are you suggesting the SM players entire army is made up of 1 drop pod and the 10 models that fit inside? And the nid players army is made up of gargoyes, exocrines (plural) dakkafexes (plural) Hive Tyrants (plural) and hordes of gene stealers (as in more than 1 horde). And you think the drop pod would still be alive past turn 1 in this proposed situation?

I assume that if "6 gargoyles" are moving onto an objective with a drop pod on the last round intending to try to survive the storm bolter on the drop pod that it's very likely the SM player has more then just their drop pod alive. Otherwise, I feel like trying to grab a last minute objective is probably pointless. The SM player already lost.

Or to summarize, the scenario presented where 6 gargoyles are a threat to an objective on the last round of the game is completely ridiculous and unrealistic. Your purposefully fabricating a situation where 2 specific units at the tail end of a game exist in a vacuum where for whatever reason nothing else will interact with them. Never mind the fact that gargs just are not a popular option since termagants outshoot them, genestealers out kill them, and hormagaunts out tie up them.


It looks like over-react in claiming that I assume the marine player only have a pod and 10 PA models on field, and hugely diverted from my initial picture I want to demonstrate: Under 8th edition rule, droppod itself, as a single big pricy model with battle role "transport", will be out-contested by just two whatever dirt cheap models, be it Gargoyes, termagants, Guradsman or Cultists, they just need two models alive and close to Objective when the game ends to deny the Droppod's attempt of taking that objective. So now Droppod does not have observable value in grabbing objectives.

Sure, the marine army may not just have 1 Droppod or 10 Marines, but similarly, Nidz are not likely to have only 6 Gargoyes left at the end game, Guards won't have only 6 guardsmen left. However, the discussion about wether what's left for Nidz/Guards can deal with what's left for the marines so as to let the Gargoyes/guardsmen out-contest the Droppod might be out of topic of this thread, and better to open a new thread to discuss. Anyway, I am sorry I didn't make my conclusion focussing on the subject (Droppod) clear in previous post, and I am stating it here: 1. For marine players, the Droppod is no longer a solid Objective contester, all it serves in 8th edition is just get your heavy hitting weapon wielders to where you want them to be quickly, that is almost all its value. All SM fans need to accept it and must adopt accordingly!!! 2. For the oppoents of Space Marines, Bravo, Bravo, no need to waste your firepower on that immobile single stormbolter platform until it explode anymore, just concentrate on those Grav cannon / plasma wielding T4 Sv3+ 6" movement guys coming out of the pods, Just KILL them before they fire their second volley and all is fine. Of course, Just do not forget to rush a few chaffs up to that objective at the end game.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/24 15:52:10


 
   
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Neophyte2012 wrote:

It looks like over-react in claiming that I assume the marine player only have a pod and 10 PA models on field, and hugely diverted from my initial picture I want to demonstrate: Under 8th edition rule, droppod itself, as a single big pricy model with battle role "transport", will be out-contested by just two whatever dirt cheap models, be it Gargoyes, termagants, Guradsman or Cultists, they just need two models alive and close to Objective when the game ends to deny the Droppod's attempt of taking that objective. So now Droppod does not have observable value in grabbing objectives.

Sure, the marine army may not just have 1 Droppod or 10 Marines, but similarly, Nidz are not likely to have only 6 Gargoyes left at the end game, Guards won't have only 6 guardsmen left. However, the discussion about wether what's left for Nidz/Guards can deal with what's left for the marines so as to let the Gargoyes/guardsmen out-contest the Droppod might be out of topic of this thread, and better to open a new thread to discuss. Anyway, I am sorry I didn't make my conclusion focussing on the subject (Droppod) clear in previous post, and I am stating it here: 1. For marine players, the Droppod is no longer a solid Objective contester, all it serves in 8th edition is just get your heavy hitting weapon wielders to where you want them to be quickly, that is almost all its value. All SM fans need to accept it and must adopt accordingly!!! 2. For the oppoents of Space Marines, Bravo, Bravo, no need to waste your firepower on that immobile single stormbolter platform until it explode anymore, just concentrate on those Grav cannon / plasma wielding T4 Sv3+ 6" movement guys coming out of the pods, Just KILL them before they fire their second volley and all is fine. Of course, Just do not forget to rush a few chaffs up to that objective at the end game.


Again, edition lag. You bemoan the fact that dedicated transports no longer have the battlefield role of the unit they come with. So does everyone elses. Get over it. It wasn't a unique feature of drop pods and nobody else gets it any more either.
My big pricy 250 point tervigon is out contested by 2 of your scouts. Boo Hoo. Thats got nothing to do with drop pods. It's a core mechanic of 8th.

1) the drop pod is a solid objective GRABBER while being something that requires dedicated heavier fire power to remove. It's fire power isn't crazy powerful, but it is a consistent source of shots for that reason. Maybe you are not aware of this but Nids know that everything we bring is going to die. Thats why we bring 2 of everything, or we bring so many immediate threats that you have to pick and choose what to deal with so SOMETHING will get through. Genestealers and Trygons don't tend to see turn 3. So you pay their points and you have 1-2 turns to make them count. Your drop pod isn't a high value target while being durable and requiring dedicated anti tank to kill. That has a value unto itself because unlike my GS or Trygons it's very likely your drop pod WILL be there turn 5. After that, yes, the drop pods CORE feature is to deliver it's payload of dudes. Which it does better and cheaper then most (any?) other armies deepstriking transports.

2) You have LOTS of decently to greatly ranged units. Your guys don't need to be ON the objective to shoot my guys off of it. Your infantry can have 36" ranged guns, and come stock with 24. Mine come with 12 and have to pay to reach 18. You can Shoot the 6 grags off the objective from 2 feet away. A whole 1/6th of a standard sized table. Are you understanding what I am saying yet? My guys have to get rhough your T4 3+ sv while having an average BS of 4+. you have to get through T3 6+ saves with a constant BS 3+.

My d pod, a single unit, yours as many units as fit up to 10 model.
Mine bs 5+. Your 3+
Mine t6 4+ sv 12 w. Your t6 3+ sv 8 w.
Mine 123 pts. Yours 95.

Again, any issue with the dpod is probably actually an issue with your other units. Not the pod itself. The pod is fairly priced for what it does.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/24 18:23:14


   
Made in us
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You keep talking about that BS5+ mattering as though you had the same number of shots from the model.

Also, 12 wounds with a 4+ is more valuable than the 8 wounds at 3+.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




It's not ediion lag. It's marine-hating, imo.

Marine infantry already sucks and chraging this much for a deep strike is insane. But makes perfect sense to marine haters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/24 18:47:08


 
   
Made in us
Horrific Hive Tyrant






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You keep talking about that BS5+ mattering as though you had the same number of shots from the model.

Also, 12 wounds with a 4+ is more valuable than the 8 wounds at 3+.


It is. And the one costs 30 points more. And has a worse ability to deepstrike transport to boot. Im not comparing the stats in a vacum. Each has little perks one way or the other. But the fact remains the dpod does its most basic job better for less points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel732 wrote:
It's not ediion lag. It's marine-hating, imo.

Marine infantry already sucks and chraging this much for a deep strike is insane. But makes perfect sense to marine haters.


Its not marine hating. Its fixing the actual problem. If marine infantry suck then fix marine infantry. Why the feth would making drop pods cheap fix the problems of tac marines? Stop using other units as an excuss for why the drop pod needs adjustments.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/24 19:05:42


   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




On average you land with the same number of shots with your Scyte you get MAX with the Drop Pod.

Please stop talking about the BS3+ vs BS5+ as though it matters.

It's also not worse. It's different. How often do I want to transport a character with a squad in the first place? It certainly wasn't happening a lot even with the 7th edition version. The option exists, but it's a non-option.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 Lance845 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You keep talking about that BS5+ mattering as though you had the same number of shots from the model.

Also, 12 wounds with a 4+ is more valuable than the 8 wounds at 3+.


It is. And the one costs 30 points more. And has a worse ability to deepstrike transport to boot. Im not comparing the stats in a vacum. Each has little perks one way or the other. But the fact remains the dpod does its most basic job better for less points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel732 wrote:
It's not ediion lag. It's marine-hating, imo.

Marine infantry already sucks and chraging this much for a deep strike is insane. But makes perfect sense to marine haters.


Its not marine hating. Its fixing the actual problem. If marine infantry suck then fix marine infantry. Why the feth would making drop pods cheap fix the problems of tac marines? Stop using other units as an excuss for why the drop pod needs adjustments.


It would at least be a small price to increase the probability of using our useless CC stats instead of a large price to slightly increase the chance of using our useless CC stats.
   
Made in us
Horrific Hive Tyrant






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
On average you land with the same number of shots with your Scyte you get MAX with the Drop Pod.

Please stop talking about the BS3+ vs BS5+ as though it matters.

It's also not worse. It's different. How often do I want to transport a character with a squad in the first place? It certainly wasn't happening a lot even with the 7th edition version. The option exists, but it's a non-option.


In 7th that character just joined the unit. Now that its aoe buff its very valuable to drop them with squads.

You dont see tcytes. Its easily because that muti unit matters. Primes with warriors. Tyrants with guard. Its significantly worse to need 2 drop pods to bring a swarmlord and his guard for 4 total reserve units with a 250 transport tax instead of your 3 units at 95.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Martel732 wrote:
It's not ediion lag. It's marine-hating, imo.

Marine infantry already sucks and chraging this much for a deep strike is insane. But makes perfect sense to marine haters.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Lance845 wrote:
Neophyte2012 wrote:


Again, any issue with the dpod is probably actually an issue with your other units. Not the pod itself. The pod is fairly priced for what it does.




So is it fair to say that many of us agree the pod is fine as is and that the issue really lies with the units that might want to ride in said pod? It seems silly to me to make a transport amazing for its price if the fault actually lies in completely different units. I mean, we don't want to start slapping battle cannons on rhinos to make up for the failing of tactical marines, right?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/12/24 22:39:53


 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I don't know. It's all in context. If I'm paying 80 pts for a one use drop for 10 meqs, those meqs better be able to do some pretty fancy stuff. And they just can't. I also don't think old marines will get any love in order to pimp primaris. Maybe you could buff marines to give me 80 pts of value, but it seems easier to just make it much cheaper to reflect its crapiness.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/24 23:08:44


 
   
 
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