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Made in us
[DCM]
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





SoCal

 LunarSol wrote:
 judgedoug wrote:

The Timberwolf (aka Mad Cat) is from the Clan Invasion, which is late 3049. The starter sets are from 3048 and before. It's addressed in the article, but the basic reason is that the starter sets will always be from the "beginning" of the game timeline (fourth Succession War) while new products are developed in the advancing timeline (which is like now in the 3140's or whatever). Mechanics-wise, the Clan invasion introduces a whole new level of tech and rules, aptly named Level 2, because it's much higher technology level. Starter sets are the core, Level 1 rules.


Battletech is one of those games that should be an unstoppable juggernaut, but has forever let itself by held back by its glory days. Never is this as infuriating to me as when the timelines come into play. There are just so many.... dull, mech designs that every time they fail to redesign the game around their iconic mechs that aren't stolen, it just feels like a huge missed opportunity. The game could absolutely soar with full reboot, but forever seems content to limp along on its nostalgia factor.


Yeah, that's more what I'm getting at. Why would I, Joe Schmoe, buy into Goofy Robots the game in the hope that someday I'll have the option to buy, in addition to the blandest mechs, the one or two mechs I have seen before and perhaps formed a positive impression of?

I'm glad you posted , because I wasn't sure how to respond to Judgedoug, although it was tempting to quote him, bold what I wrote, bold what he had written, and then image link an emoticon of someone unrolling his arm towards the post so that he's pointing at it with his whole flat hand.

   
Made in us
Major General





Florence, KY

Yes, I agree it's a new sculpt and looks more like the existing lineart than the old sculpt ever did. There's just not enough evidence that it's received a full reworking by Shimmering-Sword.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






 Ghaz wrote:
Yes, I agree it's a new sculpt and looks more like the existing lineart than the old sculpt ever did. There's just not enough evidence that it's received a full reworking by Shimmering-Sword.

I have no idea one way or another. But they certainly have updated the mini.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

 LunarSol wrote:
 judgedoug wrote:

The Timberwolf (aka Mad Cat) is from the Clan Invasion, which is late 3049. The starter sets are from 3048 and before. It's addressed in the article, but the basic reason is that the starter sets will always be from the "beginning" of the game timeline (fourth Succession War) while new products are developed in the advancing timeline (which is like now in the 3140's or whatever). Mechanics-wise, the Clan invasion introduces a whole new level of tech and rules, aptly named Level 2, because it's much higher technology level. Starter sets are the core, Level 1 rules.


Battletech is one of those games that should be an unstoppable juggernaut, but has forever let itself by held back by its glory days. Never is this as infuriating to me as when the timelines come into play. There are just so many.... dull, mech designs that every time they fail to redesign the game around their iconic mechs that aren't stolen, it just feels like a huge missed opportunity. The game could absolutely soar with full reboot, but forever seems content to limp along on its nostalgia factor.


1) The unseen weren't stolen. There are pages and pages of explanation about that tired subject on the internet, but the TL: DR is FASA didn't steal the unseen, they just licensed them from the wrong party. And 20+ years later, it looks like Harmony Gold might not have had the proper license either, but stop with the "stolen" BS. It is false.

2)This is pretty much as close to a full reboot as you are going to get unless you go for a different game system like the Clix attempt back in 2003. Some of the formerly "unseen" core designs are present in this box set for the first time since 1992, though dramatically redesigned.

3) It isn't the nostalgia so much as the rules and design bloat that needs to be addressed. There will always be diehards who prefer the Macross and Dougram designed `Mechs, or like the earlier eras but those players aren't necessarily dragging the game down. 34 years of unit and rules additions bolted on to a game system that was really only ever intended for lance on lance engagements is the problem. The sheer number of weapons systems, unit types, and unit designs makes this game extremely cumbersome, both as a new player and a retailer. Look at Iron Wind Metals catalog of Battletech miniatures and then imagine a store trying to stock even a quarter of them. The number of SKUs is insane! Which is great from a player/buyer perspective, but for retailers the line is too large and too niche to stock.




 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Yeah, that's more what I'm getting at. Why would I, Joe Schmoe, buy into Goofy Robots the game in the hope that someday I'll have the option to buy, in addition to the blandest mechs, the one or two mechs I have seen before and perhaps formed a positive impression of?

I'm glad you posted , because I wasn't sure how to respond to Judgedoug, although it was tempting to quote him, bold what I wrote, bold what he had written, and then image link an emoticon of someone unrolling his arm towards the post so that he's pointing at it with his whole flat hand.


Don't? If you don't like these `Mech designs, this game isn't for you. If you only like the MadCat/Timberwolf because you saw Mechwarrior 2 back in the day, you are out of luck I suppose. There is a gorgeous MadCat model available but it is sold in pewter so kryptonite for you. Though there are plenty of resin and 3D printed knock offs you can buy online so, maybe look at those alternatives instead?



*edit for typo

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/17 21:48:29


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I do hope the maps that come with these are the same harder card style from the map packs they put out a few years ago, with the punch-out terrain hexes.

 LunarSol wrote:
... that aren't stolen...
Stolen?

Buying into HG's bull gak are we?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Yeah, that's more what I'm getting at. Why would I, Joe Schmoe, buy into Goofy Robots the game in the hope that someday I'll have the option to buy, in addition to the blandest mechs, the one or two mechs I have seen before and perhaps formed a positive impression of?
"Why would I get into a game that has lots of things I don't like!"

You wouldn't, because why would you intentionally start something that doesn't appeal to you.

Stop asking the game to be something it's never been. You don't see me telling Warmachine to be something it's not because I don't find its aesthetic to be all that pleasing.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/18 03:11:59


   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




Sacratomato

I plan to buy both box sets and I really like the new models. I played the original, the Click version and the video games. I have a group that is in for playing this version too.

I easily see them pushing the timeline forward and adding Clan mechs.....after they see how sales go. I can also see them be successful and divert more attention to the line.

70% of all statistics are made up on the spot by 64% of the people that produce false statistics 54% of the time that they produce them. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Potent Grey Knight Librarian





Fort Worth, TX

I just wish they could have this for sale now. The shiny new video game has been out for a few weeks. It made me want to play the tabletop version, and when I went to check it out: out of stock. Maybe I'll still be interested when it comes out, I most likely will be, but I was a 100% guaranteed sale this week, and that percentage may drop by the time this is on sale.

I'm glad the mechs are getting modern designs. I've seen the old ones, and like Rogue Trader-era marines, they have not aged well.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
As someone looking in from the the outside, I always thought the Mad Cat was the iconic Battletech mech, the only instantly recognizable mecha in their range for mainstream audiences. So, why is it not in the starter set?


Because it didn't appear in the game until the third edition. First edition (BattleDroids) had ten mechs copied straight from various anime. Second edition (the fist called BattleTecch)had those ten, and added a bunch more. Then there was the lawsuit with Harmony Gold among others, and they lost the right to the images of the original ten, making them the 'unseen'. It wasn't until the Clan Invasion that clan mechs like the Timber Wolf (what you call a Mad Cat) entered the game.

Granted, that was almost thirty years ago, but still...

Really, the most iconic Battletech mechs are the 'unseen', not the clan mechs. And the Griffin was one of them, although it didn't look EXACTLY like the mini pictured above...

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Norwich

I AM SOOOOOOO PUMPED FOR THIS!!!!

Ahem... This release has me so excited, I havent been as excited for a model release since Dark Angels got loads of new kits (dropped £900 on that)

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Potent Grey Knight Librarian





Fort Worth, TX

I think the issue with "iconic mechs" is that different people will have different opinions on it. What's iconic to the tabletop player won't be the same as what's iconic to the video game player.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut






Gah, those print lines. I might just as well rip some models from MWO and print my own mechs if that's the quality I can expect from the new box.
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




Sacratomato

The two mechs that almost everyone knows are the Marauder and Battlemaster. Mine is the Battlemaster followed by the Griffin and Shadowhawk.

70% of all statistics are made up on the spot by 64% of the people that produce false statistics 54% of the time that they produce them. 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Norwich

 Da-Rock wrote:
The two mechs that almost everyone knows are the Marauder and Battlemaster. Mine is the Battlemaster followed by the Griffin and Shadowhawk.


Warhammer, that thing is very well known.

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Protoculturist






RVA

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I just wish they could have this for sale now.
Or like, up to three years ago. As Albertorius pointed out, this isn't exactly new news. Aries has had these up for preorder on their site, with these pics, for a long while now. I can't even remember how long ago I originally saw them. And who knows how long it will actually be until CGL gets around to shipping them.
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I think the issue with "iconic mechs" is that different people will have different opinions on it.
Generally, I think "iconic" means Fourth Succession War and before Clan Invasion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/17 22:40:15


   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan




Monarchy of TBD

And that Manchu, is the Tabletop player's perspective. To this generation that probably had their first exposure from computer games- It'll probably be an Uziel or Madcat.

I remember I bought in with the starter with the little cardboard standees, and this bad boy on the cover
Spoiler:


So for me, the Atlas just screams Battletech, and I'm most familiar with those 24 3025 mechs than anything else. My brothers first experience was with Mechwarrior 2, and so they adored the Timberwolf.

Vatbirths.

Honestly, I most hope that this streamlined starter set works out for them. I think their plastic supply is pretty good- I haven't heard of any issues acquiring the Alpha Strike boxes. Now imagine us going forward- and each era getting a starter book with some plastic minis and a micro campaign, like Sword and Dragon, or Wolf and Blake. Styled after the GW event boxes, or the many, many, kickstarter board games, it could be a really awesome way to provide multiple entry points or campaign ideas for veterans. I'd even be cool with two iconic plastic mechs in the Era Starter boxes, and some cardboard for the lancemates- and of course, an Alpha Strike box of appropriate era to flesh out each side.

Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.

 
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




Sacratomato

Warhammer, that thing is very well known.


I agree. I remember seeing many of these mechs in an old Japanese model catalog back in the early 80s. I'm also certain I saw the Warhammer in Robotech, (first season).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/17 23:44:27


70% of all statistics are made up on the spot by 64% of the people that produce false statistics 54% of the time that they produce them. 
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

Looks like they've adopted the designs from Mechwarrior online

Will have to get these.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Fargo, ND USA

 Formosa wrote:
 Da-Rock wrote:
The two mechs that almost everyone knows are the Marauder and Battlemaster. Mine is the Battlemaster followed by the Griffin and Shadowhawk.


Warhammer, that thing is very well known.


For me, it's the Axman.

Purely thanks to the Animated Series, of course.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

For me it was the Mad Cat, or as I knew it at the time, the Timber Wolf, playing the Mechwarrior 2 demo that came on the Win 95 demo disk on my Pentium 166.

I didn't even know what the 'Inner Sphere' was. I didn't understand any of it. Only really got into that later when MechCommander came out.

Some people hate the old art style ("They haven't aged well!") whereas others accept it for what it is. I appreciate what PGI has done with a lot of the modern redesigns, but not all of them are hits to me (the new Wolverine is far too generic, and I think the new Centurion ruins the image of the Centurion).

I just love BTech the game. It was my super-crunchy escape from the simplicity of 40K. It was the game I played when I wanted to play a rule set with actual depth. It was also the one with an advancing story, rather than 40K which was just a setting (until recently).

Then again I'm one of those BTech players who doesn't hold onto their fav time period like their lives depended on it, calling anyone who liked the Clan Invasion/FedCom Civil War/Jihad an idiot.

I like it all - not equally - but don't sit around wishing that the Jihad had never happened or that the Clans ruined everything.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Fargo, ND USA

Not gonna lie, I kinda liked the Dark Age, so count me amongst the fans of the advancing story, too.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Protoculturist






RVA

Yeah I'm not just a CJF fan but a Mongol. All hail Malvina!

That said, I totally get why people think introducing the Clans spoiled some of the fun.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 His Master's Voice wrote:
Gah, those print lines. I might just as well rip some models from MWO and print my own mechs if that's the quality I can expect from the new box.


Seeing as it’s a prototype I wouldn’t judge just yet.

"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

BattleTech game box wrote:X high-quality, fully assembled (un-painted) miniatures.

Well, they're off to a great start. :/

Why would they assemble the damned things but leave them unpainted? Do they truly not understand the miniatures gaming market?

As for plastic, well that certainly needs to be better defined. In the old days it would mean HISP but now it could mean just about anything. I expect it will be the same crap WizKids used in their MechWarrior game - the same stuff you use in a glue gun.

As usual for anything BattleTech related, it's one step forward, one step backward, and one head firmly lodged up the arse. It's like they're trying to fail.

Oh, one more thing. Why did they hyphenate "unpainted"? How much less professional can this product be? Oh, wait. Topps is involved. Give it time, I guess.

Feth it. I'm done with this franchise.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/18 02:12:05


Reading's for morons who can't understand pictures.

 
   
Made in ca
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Vancouver BC Canada


I love that Awesome, the Awesome along with the Zeus where two of my fav mechs.

As to the beginner box are they going with the Grey Death Legion Mercs because they where the one who found the Star League era computer core and sent all the tech info into the inner sphere so the inner sphere could fight back against the Clan invasion?

CATS- How are you gentlemen?
CATS- All your base are belong to us.
CATS- You are on the way to destruction.
Captain -What you say?
CATS- You have no chance to survive make your time.
CATS HA HA HA!!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hi%20Welcome



 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Breotan wrote:
Why would they assemble the damned things but leave them unpainted? Do they truly not understand the miniatures gaming market?
Because miniatures never have been, and never will be, important to BattleTech. You can play the game using coins if you want to - you only have to know which way the 'Mech/vehicle is facing.

 Breotan wrote:
As for plastic, well that certainly needs to be better defined. In the old days it would mean HISP but now it could mean just about anything. I expect it will be the same crap WizKids used in their MechWarrior game - the same stuff you use in a glue gun.
Unlikely.

 Breotan wrote:
As usual for anything BattleTech related, it's one step forward, one step backward, and one head firmly lodged up the arse. It's like they're trying to fail.
I know right? I mean, having a game in print, with a demo edition for new people to dip their toes in, with a whole new set of 'Mechs, maps, rules and accessories. They're just leaping backwards.

 Breotan wrote:
Feth it. I'm done with this franchise.
Yeah, 'cause your post made it sound like you were really struggling with the decision.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/18 03:15:02


   
Made in jp
Dakka Veteran





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Breotan wrote:
Why would they assemble the damned things but leave them unpainted? Do they truly not understand the miniatures gaming market?
Because miniatures never have been, and never will be, important to BattleTech. You can play the game using coins if you want to - you only have to know which way the 'Mech/vehicle is facing.




I have a coin dispenser with each coin bearing an arrow and a number, in case of "sudden interlopers" during friendly games. If I'm judging. Nothing makes enemies friends like a surprise atlas.
   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






 Breotan wrote:
As for plastic, well that certainly needs to be better defined. In the old days it would mean HIPS but now it could mean just about anything. I expect it will be the same crap WizKids used in their MechWarrior game - the same stuff you use in a glue gun

It is a tad more probable that they would make them out of the same stuff they did the latest box and the lance pack ones.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/18 06:32:27


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Nostromodamus wrote:

Seeing as it’s a prototype I wouldn’t judge just yet.


Seeing as those seem to be official promotional images delivered by Catalyst, I think I'll judge.

Don't mind me, thinking about the continuous failure to properly leverage the visual side of the IP in tabletop products makes me cranky.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

You'll judge the final product on a picture of a prototype?

   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut






When a company shows me product images, I tend to judge them based on what they are, not what they may be.
   
 
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