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Amusing to see people not know about our distributed network problem. In short, if our logistics chain breaks down, the supermarkets start to run out of food.
Five days without food and people start killing each other. Look up 'Operation Dark Winter'...
Of course, this is unlikely to happen here.... right?
History is *littered* with the corpses of people who said, this can't happen here...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Well, I've got a new box of Yorkshire Teabags. So I'm sorted.
You don't want the new boxes, the bags split... you need a tea strainer with Yorkshire teabags
Got a cupboard FULL of tea here. Breakfast, Earl Grey, Everyday, Decaf, Redbush.... about 20 varieties of fruit tea too. Advantage of working in a factory making and packing teabags
It's all panic over nothing, driven by the media, who have nothing better to do. It will be end of the world on the first morning, and forgotten about by tea time.
I think there could be short term problems due to panic buying, and in the worst case scenario there could be disruption to supplies of drugs. People with Addison's disease or Type 1 Diabetes should probably have some extra just in case, because the downside of disruption could be fatal for them.
I think any problems would be pretty short term, but we are talking about a country where people called the police when KFC ran out of chicken so I am not sure how calm the populace will be if there is some panic buying going on.
Right now, we're about 60% self-sufficient in foodstuffs as is right now. 10% of the remaining imports come from outside the EU (and will be unaffected).
We currently produce more than 80% of the eggs and beef consumed internally, we export more wheat than we import (meaning bread isn't an issue), and dairy farming is the largest agricultural sector in the UK making us roughly self-sufficient in butters and milk with a little planning. Sugar imports come primarily from outside the EU. With poultry, we produce about 80% of the chicken we consume, but there's something of an imbalance beyond the figure, as we export many bits l(ike thighs) we don't like; whilst importing far more breast meat than we produce. So the most preferred bit of chicken might become a bit scarcer, but the flip side would be a large increase in the amount of thigh/wing meat.
The problem is that these figures are taken over a year. March / April can be some of the worst months to be self sufficient as we are in-between crops. All of the winter crops have been harvested and the spring crops are not yet ready. I'd agree that the idea we need to prep is overblown for foodstuffs as in reality the food stuffs that could become higer priced and shorter in supply will be the fresh food that you can't really stock up on. Meat products especially the poor grade ones will be available if not quite to the standard we are use to. So it will be spam for breakfast, spam for lunch, spam for dinner all washed down with a mug of Bovril. The real issue could be the health impacts from not getting sufficient fruit and vegetables to those on lower incomes. Long term it could generate health issues, but also lower quality diets impacts productivity through increased tiredness and so forth. We may also run out of stomach tablets quite quickly. If there is less supply then those with the money will be able to pay the higher premiums driving prices up even further and making the poorest even worse off. Still it would probably be considered economic growth... The only reason to prep is if we think that things are so incompetent that if something does go wrong the whole house of cards will come down. Still I'm sure some would see rationing as a good idea.
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War Drone wrote: For the 1st month, 30x bottles of Vodka and a sawn-off shotgun.
Obviously, I can't get a shotgun, but the Vodka should be doable ...
I'm pretty sure this is gonna be another Y2K thing ...
The Vodka might be able to be used as a Molotov at a pinch as well.
The problem people misunderstand with the Y2K thing is that an awful lot of work was put in to stop it happening. There were still areas of failures, but they were relatively small compared to what could have happened. Dismissing the Y2K bug completely misunderstands that the world recognised a problem and acted on it to prevent it. In comparison the current issues are more like actively denying there is a problem and doing nothing about it (and this covers multiple issues).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/07 20:29:54
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Would they have time for all that, with the yellow vests and all?
Yes.
It is france speak english or german and you will get the scrutiny of the long arm of the state.
Jokes aside, probably not.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: In terms of veg, I’m hoping this sees an end to pointless ‘aesthetic ideals’ foisted by Supermarkets.
Will help reduce overall wastage.
That this contributes to wastage is a myth. All the food that's not pretty enough - it's in one of three places: the shops where people poorer than you shop; sauces/premade meals; fodder.
The vegetable and fruit industry is rife with problems, but wastage of edible foods is not one of them. At all. There's profit to be made, after all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/07 22:44:11
xKillGorex wrote: X1 plate carrier, x6 smoke grenades, x 50 mts of paracord plus I have a tin of hot dogs somewhere and half a bottle of captain morgans,,,,, good times
I sincerely hope they're within--or semi-reasonably out of--date:
Spoiler:
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/02/07 22:44:18
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: In terms of veg, I’m hoping this sees an end to pointless ‘aesthetic ideals’ foisted by Supermarkets.
Will help reduce overall wastage.
That this contributes to wastage is a myth. All the food that's not pretty enough - it's in one of three places: the shops where people poorer than you shop; sauces/premade meals; fodder.
The vegetable and fruit industry is rife with problems, but wastage of edible foods is not one of them. At all. There's profit to be made, after all.
Indeed. 'Unsightly' food is very rarely wasted when it can sold for profit in other areas.
Eggs which do not meet acceptable standards for supermarket sale, any egg that isn't A grade or higher, are usually sold to restaurants or other commercial food preparation facilities. The eggs in McDonald's Egg McMuffins are usually going to be B grade eggs. Any restaurant that makes scrambled eggs is most likely not cracking them open at the restaurant. They're buying either whole shelled eggs, or just prescrambled eggs, which come in a sealed bag or a 5 gallon bucket.
Fruits and vegetables which do not meet acceptable visual standards are usually used in processed foods. Canned soups, fruit jelly or preserves, etc... In the event the food is actually unfit for human consumption, it will be used in animal feed. Canning companies aren't shelling out for high quality produce, they want the cheap stuff and as long as its legally edible they'll put it in there.
The vast majority of food waste occurs at home, or at restaurants by customers not finishing all of their meals. It spoils in our refrigerators or is tossed as uneaten leftovers. Profitable restaurants are very careful with their food stocks, they do not want any food being tossed because it is spoiled. Thats why restaurants usually get resupplied with new food at a minimum of weekly, if not daily. They simply do not keep large quantities on hand because it might spoil. The only food they will willingly throw away is food that was purchased by a customer and left uneaten at the table. Any prepared food that wasn't sold is often recycled in some fashion. At Costco, any Rotisserie chickens which are not sold within 2 hours after being cooked are remove from the display case and the meat is immediately salvaged for cold products made in the Deli. Which include but are not limited to Pot Pies, premade Chicken Soup, and 5 lb packages of rotisserie chicken meat.
At the very least, most restaurants have arrangements with either charities or local farmers to use their leftover food. Either pig farmers will come and feed the food to the hogs, or if the food is still legally consumable it will be fed to the homeless through charities. The latter method is extremely common with bakeries.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
The cream removed from your semi-skimmed or skimmed milk simply finds itself into a different part of the national diet.
A statistic I remember roughly is that in the first world we waste about 30% of our food after buying it, while in the third world they lose about 30% between the farm and the table (through pests, inadequate storage, or whatever.)
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
And people talk about how indigenous peoples "used the whole animal" as if we don't do that today. Yet modern processing plants use literally everything. Hide gets used for leather. Blood is either composted or used in pet food, or human food in places where there is demand. Excess fat and organs are rendered. Every scrap of meat is used. That "pink slime" everyone was so freaked out about is the end product of wringing every scrap of edible food out of an animal, which is a good thing. Even the bones of chickens/turkeys which have had the meat stripped off them for meat cuts get ground up and pressed through sieves to get the last little bits to make hot dogs out of.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Yep. Industrial farming gets a bad rep, but a lot of it is about getting maximal efficiency out of the process, and that has it's upsides for the environment. If we switched to organic farming it would definitely mean more wastage, which would result in more land use for farming and less wild land for non-domesticated creatures.
I am about as enviro-lefty as you can get, but I am always frustrated by wooly thinking around food and farming.
Da Boss wrote: I am about as enviro-lefty as you can get, but I am always frustrated by wooly thinking around food and farming.
I always just think it's a bit out-of-touch-middle-class, y'know? Not the belief that there must be waste, but the campaigns that pass that idea around based on a few people from Mumsnet who believe that 'the ugly fruit must get thrown away because I don't personally see it in Waitrose'.
I think the point about wonky fruit and veg is that the supermakets force farms to grow more than is needed so that the aesthetically less appetising items can be discarded or recycled.
Force growing extra stuff adds to the environmental degradation of farmland by requiring more fertiliser and pesticide than if you generally accepted blemished items in greengroceries.
It seems from these reports that the 'recycling' means various channels including ploughing it back into the soil, animal feed, and presumably some of it goes into tinned fruit and baby food. So it's not all wasted, but some of it is.
As it happens, Waitrose and Lidl both have introduce "wonky" ranges of some fruit and veg. (Well, Lidl's is mushrooms, which is a fungus.)
I didn't think it was the farming side of things that caused the wastage; I thought most of the wastage came from the supermarkets throwing out perfectly good food that had passed some completely arbitrary 'best before' date?
The Metro article follows a Journal of Cleaner Production article, but doesn't name the authors. There is a special issue from July 2018 on food waste, but nothing in it appear to be the study in question. It does include this example that sets out the total dearth of research on aesthetic factors in food waste and on aesthetic-related decision making processes in the supply chain, and setting out to address it.
Particularly interesting is the observation that in the literature, 'there is general agreement that food waste concerns all foods that are produced for human consumption but are ultimately not consumed by humans', whereas 'supply chain actors seem more focused on the economic and environmental aspects rather than on the social aspects of their business practice. Consequently, they do not consider as food waste alternative uses for suboptimal products, such as transforming these products into biogas, cattle feeds, or into fertilizer by ploughing them back into the ground.'
Basically, there is only notable waste if you consider everything not eaten by a human to be waste.
Just make sure you consume everything in your Fallout Shelter, Herzlos!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/08 09:22:10
Da Boss wrote: I think any problems would be pretty short term, but we are talking about a country where people called the police when KFC ran out of chicken so I am not sure how calm the populace will be if there is some panic buying going on.
Yeah we're not famous for handling supply problems well; an inch of snow will result in people going to the supermarket to buy 4 litres of spare milk and 2 loafs of bread. The milk/bread isles will be empty within a couple of hours. They'll get restocked the next day or so once things are cleared/gritted, and people will be having bread with every meal for the next week to use it up.
Ditto when there was a fuel shortage - it seemed anyone with room in their tank would queue up to top it up. Really annoys me when you get to a petrol station on empty and need to wait half an hour because everyone is putting a litre in.
We're so used to everything just being available, that we can't handle any disruption.
at the risk of getting into risky territory, if you're an illegal alien in france, they just send you to the UK anyway.
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Da Boss wrote: I think there could be short term problems due to panic buying, and in the worst case scenario there could be disruption to supplies of drugs. People with Addison's disease or Type 1 Diabetes should probably have some extra just in case, because the downside of disruption could be fatal for them.
I think any problems would be pretty short term, but we are talking about a country where people called the police when KFC ran out of chicken so I am not sure how calm the populace will be if there is some panic buying going on.
Damn millenials!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/08 10:41:40
First, powdered milk is a thing. ANY of those dehydrated food items store well.
Lots of bottled water is good, but I'd stock up on Propane and a single stand burner. You can boil fresh water to kill microbes and it becomes drinkable. At the very least save your bottled water for drinking and use boiled water for everything else.
When we had an ice storm back in '91 or '92, my dad had an old kerosene heater that had a top that allowed for boiling water. We heated the house AND managed to keep water going.
Canned goods are always good, and as a military man I like to keep some MREs stashed just in case.
In addition to MREs, you can also get dehydrated food used for camping and stash that. It keeps for like 10 years, and it doesn't taste bad at all - I took some with me camping when weight was an issue since we were getting on a teeny little puddle jumper plane.
I don't have any idea about almost anything brexit related, just a mention.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
I don't have any idea about almost anything brexit related, just a mention.
Oh my....you mentioned something political...here come the mods and forum owners...
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children 
