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I can see it's going to be annoying for those in countries where the expectation has been that the manufacturer replaces stuff rather than the retailer

but for us in the UK (and Europe?) that's the normal way of things... even if complaining direct to GW might be chosen by some as you're more likely to get told to keep the faulty item and get a whole new one too

(and if you bought from an online retailer they'd be responsible for any shipping costs for sending the faulty item back too, as would, I believe businesses selling at conventions without a retail store... if they did have one you'd probably have to get the item there)

but as to why they're doing it it probably is to cut costs and simplify who they have to deal with, (plus removing all the folk who've bought second hand or just lost/broken stuff themselves)

Offering no customer support and putting the burden on retailers will eventually make the retailers stop carrying FFG product.

Asmodee / FFG had better make sure their quality control is stepped way up at the factory and do all they can to reduce mispacks.

 Sacredroach wrote:
Sadly, FFG managed to kill most of my interest in their products with Descent 2nd Edition. And the recent Arkham Horror reboot killed the rest.

The only thing I am interested in from Asmodee at this point is the CMON ASoIF products, and if Asmodee bites the wax tadpole, I am sure that CMON will find a new supplier.

Providing that CMON's factories can survive Covid-19...

Asmodee makes the minis for ASOIAF? Is that all they make for CmON?

PS: “bites the wax tadpole.” Brilliant. Have a Coca Cola for that one!

Asmodee distribute for CMON.

Before you get out the torches and pitch, you may want to check with your FLGS and find out what happens on their end. Jeffrey from BGG:

From what i've read elsewhere, we are to take our game back to the Point of Sale for replacement or replacement parts (the thread was not to clear about that). The Point of Sale contacts Asmodee for replacement/parts and the parts are sent from Asmodee to the Point of Sale. The Point of Sale then gets them to the customer. .... If it's not worth it to Asmodee to ship the game back, they just may isssue a sales credit to the store and tell them to keep it as a demo copy or trash it. If it's just a small part they can send directly to the store then they just may do that. Perhaps in the future they will ship it directly to the customer again. ... I'd imagine this policy is really there to stop replacement parts for used/second hand copies by having the store 'verify' an actual sale to go with that replacement.

Now, that's for *missing* parts. In the case where you cannot get a missing part because there's a mistake with the entire print run (eg. a typo on one of the cards), that's a different situation with a different resolution (including, "you're stuck with it").

Don't really care about FFG. Myself, the last FFG I really liked was Eldritch Horror. With the last few expansions, I hear they decreased the game content, kept the MSRP, and the designer left the company.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I'm not saying it's common in our hobby. It's common in retail in general. If I buy a new PS4 and it doesn't work out of the box I don't contact sony, I return it at the store I bought it at.

The issue here is this, these types of products aren't like normal things you get in retail and many stores that sell them are small operations. This really hurts them as it'll make people think " Well, I'd be better off spending my money on something else. " Like for me, GW prices are nuts but I know if there is an issue they'll resolve it in days, not weeks on weeks to months.

As well, I've had the opposite experience with sony and microsoft and they've handled flaws with their system both professionally and quickly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ced1106 wrote:
Before you get out the torches and pitch, you may want to check with your FLGS and find out what happens on their end. Jeffrey from BGG:

From what i've read elsewhere, we are to take our game back to the Point of Sale for replacement or replacement parts (the thread was not to clear about that). The Point of Sale contacts Asmodee for replacement/parts and the parts are sent from Asmodee to the Point of Sale. The Point of Sale then gets them to the customer. .... If it's not worth it to Asmodee to ship the game back, they just may isssue a sales credit to the store and tell them to keep it as a demo copy or trash it. If it's just a small part they can send directly to the store then they just may do that. Perhaps in the future they will ship it directly to the customer again. ... I'd imagine this policy is really there to stop replacement parts for used/second hand copies by having the store 'verify' an actual sale to go with that replacement.

Now, that's for *missing* parts. In the case where you cannot get a missing part because there's a mistake with the entire print run (eg. a typo on one of the cards), that's a different situation with a different resolution (including, "you're stuck with it").

Don't really care about FFG. Myself, the last FFG I really liked was Eldritch Horror. With the last few expansions, I hear they decreased the game content, kept the MSRP, and the designer left the company.

It's not about pitchforks but negative change is negative change and this will add undue strain on small stores with much on their shoulders as well. They'll carry it less if they have to at all while other items and companies make it easy to deal with issues. It's a downgrade and sad to see from a company I used to have a lot of faith in.

I actually haven't ever gotten broken parts or missing parts yet from FFG? Is that odd compared to other people?

I only ever needed like two things seen to from FFG. One was a card board piece that was missing from the package and the other was some of the large pegs which I'd had break on me from my shuttles, though those i'd asked if I had any way to buy them and they just sent me extras. Back in the good times, before the Asmodee empire. Both things were quick and painless fixes and the second one they didn't need to nor did I ask them to they just offered and I was thankful.

I agree they need to up their game on quality control, never had many problems until the last year
I have gotten a few mispacked things from them but only used the service once and it took forever.
Maybe this service will be faster.

AngryAngel80 wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I'm not saying it's common in our hobby. It's common in retail in general. If I buy a new PS4 and it doesn't work out of the box I don't contact sony, I return it at the store I bought it at.

The issue here is this, these types of products aren't like normal things you get in retail and many stores that sell them are small operations. This really hurts them as it'll make people think " Well, I'd be better off spending my money on something else. " Like for me, GW prices are nuts but I know if there is an issue they'll resolve it in days, not weeks on weeks to months.

I don't disagree with that, even kind of stated something similar in my original post. But I think the outrage is being focused on the change, which is a common process, instead of what it actually means for people that sell the game.

 Smokestack wrote:
I had a recent situation with needing a replacement from GW. It all worked out, but I thought I should go through the retailer first too. And GW kind of steered me that way at first as well.

I was given the Sisters of Battle collector's box as a christmas gift that was purchased by a friend from an LGS. It was opened a couple weeks later when we did our gift exchange. The box was missing the cannoness sprue. My friend contacted the LGS who advised to contact GW direct for a replacement. I contacted GW customer support. They were very friendly and asked for pictures of what was included in the box, and for a pic of the code on the back of the box.

a couple days passed and then they responded saying I needed to contact the LGS that it was purchased from for a replacement. The LGS stated again that it was a limited release box and they were not able to get a replacement. I forwarded their e-mail to GW who responded right away that they would send me a replacement. Which they did.

In that same gift exchange I got ASoiaf Bolton Blackguards that did not come with the cards... though I did not bother looking to get those replaced since the cards are changing anyway, and I already had a units so had the cards,

A long while back one of my friends bought some stuff from a hole in the wall FLGS on a whim. There were missing components and the manufacturer said he needed to go through the local store. Around here the "local" part of FLGS is a bit relative. Stores are about 65-90 miles away (rural area) and we get to them once every month or so. The FLGS had shuttered it's doors and closed down in that time. The manufacturer still insisted he needed to go through the store, despite them being closed. In the end he was stuck.

I can imagine that people that buy online will often have similar experiences. Online commerce would make it REALLY easy for a seller to say "we don't deal with that, call the manufacturer."

 Monkeysloth wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I'm not saying it's common in our hobby. It's common in retail in general. If I buy a new PS4 and it doesn't work out of the box I don't contact sony, I return it at the store I bought it at.

The issue here is this, these types of products aren't like normal things you get in retail and many stores that sell them are small operations. This really hurts them as it'll make people think " Well, I'd be better off spending my money on something else. " Like for me, GW prices are nuts but I know if there is an issue they'll resolve it in days, not weeks on weeks to months.

I don't disagree with that, even kind of stated something similar in my original post. But I think the outrage is being focused on the change, which is a common process, instead of what it actually means for people that sell the game.

Yes but having some knowledge of how these types of things really work through a small store I can say this will turn folks off on the buying and stocking side. I mean it is what it is but its a downgrade for the public and feels bad. Is it the end of the world ? No. That said saying it's all good because it works like this in other places isn't always very good either as this niche kind of item does open itself to more errors and mistakes that need correction in a timely fashion and not weeks to months from purchase. As well with most things for me I have to deal with the manufacturer as opposed to the store unless its smaller stuff or easily replaceable stuff.

 cuda1179 wrote:
A long while back one of my friends bought some stuff from a hole in the wall FLGS on a whim. There were missing components and the manufacturer said he needed to go through the local store. Around here the "local" part of FLGS is a bit relative. Stores are about 65-90 miles away (rural area) and we get to them once every month or so. The FLGS had shuttered it's doors and closed down in that time. The manufacturer still insisted he needed to go through the store, despite them being closed. In the end he was stuck.

I can imagine that people that buy online will often have similar experiences. Online commerce would make it REALLY easy for a seller to say "we don't deal with that, call the manufacturer."

Good point about the LGS. Also, Amazon has a return window, and I dunno what would happen if I opened the shrinkwrap of Runebound I bought last year and found a piece missing.

As for online commerce, Amazon is very good about returns within the window. When I had a leak with a paint from a paint set, Miniature Market asked for a photo and order number (?), I sent it, and they sent an entire new paint set.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
It's not about pitchforks but negative change is negative change and this will add undue strain on small stores with much on their shoulders as well. They'll carry it less if they have to at all while other items and companies make it easy to deal with issues. It's a downgrade and sad to see from a company I used to have a lot of faith in.

I disagree. My FLGS does a *lot* of work in its business, and requesting a credit when they have to open a box to replace a missing part would be a trivial task, especially if they do the same for receiving damaged product. There are disadvantages to this policy, but work is not one of them -- unless the LGS finds Asmodee's customer service difficult to deal with, or credits take a long time to process.

Okay time to list which LGS's will be problematic with this new policy:

ULGS
OOBLGS
LDLGS
OOSLGS

I'd agree to disagree about it being a pain in the butt. Some may love dealing with distributors/asmodee to replace things but it also depends on how much stuff needs to be done and what the process actually entails. Especially as my LGS sees a small amount of traffic for FFG product this would go to. As well apparently you've never known people to lose parts, then expect replacement that they'd expect from store which could be hard if they just order the items in for that specific customer.

Yet again I say it depends on the store but not every one has a huge following for FFG mini games and so there may not be stock there to replace it with on hand making it at least a few weeks assuming asmodee has replacements available. Then you have the matter of them deciding to just want a refund at that point and is asmodee going to eat the cost to take the item back after it was purchased from a distributor ? Which I'd add for FFG they also tend to have stock issues for long stretches of time.

People can be extremely finicky and any local store has to compete with Amazon and the like already this just makes it even more of a pain for some of them as the sunk time will make then really ponder the purchase. In before it's said " Surely, they'd wait " I've seen someone need to wait 2 days for an order placed to come in and decided they'd just get it on amazon cheaper in one day, they won't want to wait weeks for replacement parts. Nor will a store with a small interest in say X wing want to carry stock just for the fear of issues knowing it'll be dead stock if its not used and taking up valuable shelf space of which there is limited amounts.

So it can be down played and as said some it won't bother, some it will a lot.

Further adding some distributors are a large pain in the butt to get proper crediting and repalcment for damaged or just plain wrong items sent to the store. Requesting it may be trivial but eating the shipping cost, which some have you do, then waiting for it to get there, be processed and sent back can kill a sale and eat the somewhat slim margain of profit stores make from some of these items in the first place.

This does make me significantly less likely to purchase products from this company. Simply for the sheer number of times i've had compenents missing from X wing or Legion boxes, or X wing miniatures being terribly built or broken and poorly made. I'm much more likely to return an item and get my money back than return it and wait weeks for a replacement. I'm pretty fickle like that and i've got various games competing for my interest.

It'll also be hard for FLGS and smaller stores.

Amazon is great with returns and can soak the loss, and have sufficient inventory to replace your copy, a mom and pop store cannot.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It'll also be hard for FLGS and smaller stores.

Amazon is great with returns and can soak the loss, and have sufficient inventory to replace your copy, a mom and pop store cannot.

Which is entirely my point, unless a customer is intensely loyal to their store, it'll be a silver bullet to carrying these products in some places.

It suggests if you have a FFG product you cannot get missing parts replaced. In actual fact they've simply passed responsibility for the pr Chess to retail. Which is a gakky move. But I figure retail is slowly figuring out that FFG doesn't really have much interest in bricks and mortar anymore.

Wonder what contingency there for retailers who, if there’s a wide spread production issue, risk potentially ending up with a pile of duff stock?

I can’t imagine they’ll just be hung out to dry?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It'll also be hard for FLGS and smaller stores.

Amazon is great with returns and can soak the loss, and have sufficient inventory to replace your copy, a mom and pop store cannot.

there shouldn't be any loss involved as asmodee will be replacing or refunding the store, inventory might be an issue I agree (although once one game with a missing bit comes back it can be canabalised for replacement bits as Asmodee will probably not want it back unless the store starts having excessive amounts of returns)

It’s still further work and form filling (paper or online) for the store, and it’s an issue ultimately beyond their control.

I’m no businessman, but I think that’d honk me off in short order.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It'll also be hard for FLGS and smaller stores.

Amazon is great with returns and can soak the loss, and have sufficient inventory to replace your copy, a mom and pop store cannot.

there shouldn't be any loss involved as asmodee will be replacing or refunding the store, inventory might be an issue I agree (although once one game with a missing bit comes back it can be canabalised for replacement bits as Asmodee will probably not want it back unless the store starts having excessive amounts of returns)

When it comes to FFG and their glacial reprint times 'replacement' may not be an option. I'll mention in passing that the legal relationship that requires a retailer to replace/refund an item with a customer does not exist at the retailer/distributor level, at least in the UK.

MarkNorfolk wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It'll also be hard for FLGS and smaller stores.

Amazon is great with returns and can soak the loss, and have sufficient inventory to replace your copy, a mom and pop store cannot.

there shouldn't be any loss involved as asmodee will be replacing or refunding the store, inventory might be an issue I agree (although once one game with a missing bit comes back it can be canabalised for replacement bits as Asmodee will probably not want it back unless the store starts having excessive amounts of returns)

When it comes to FFG and their glacial reprint times 'replacement' may not be an option. I'll mention in passing that the legal relationship that requires a retailer to replace/refund an item with a customer does not exist at the retailer/distributor level, at least in the UK.

That's a good point worth emphasising. For us, protected(for now) by EU-compliant retail laws, this is a triviality, since it just means returning the product to the retailer(at their expense) rather than filing a parts replacement request with Asmodee. Depending on whether or not the retailer or their distributor has additional available stock, it will either be better(replacement box takes a few days, rather than waiting a few weeks for the specific part to find its way to you) or worse(there is no replacement stock, so all you can do is request a refund), but for the retailer this is going to be gak. Unless they have some specific contractual agreement with the distributor, they could end up eating a lot of costs over this, especially online sellers who'll have to pay postage twice over out of their own pocket.

While I don't think any of the bigger e-tailers will stop stocking FFG over this, I can see them reducing or completely removing the discount we presently enjoy and selling at RRP so as to insure themselves against FFG's inevitable future feth ups, and that'll make X-Wing and Legion a harder sell for newbies, especially since FFG have already just hiked the cost of their Legion kits(by as much as double for the characters) with the move to injection molded plastic.

 Myrthe wrote:
Offering no customer support and putting the burden on retailers will eventually make the retailers stop carrying FFG product.

Asmodee / FFG had better make sure their quality control is stepped way up at the factory and do all they can to reduce mispacks.

I agree it isn't a good business motto at all. The hardest thing would be getting a replacement as most stores only carry one of each item not several so it means they will more then likely have to give you a refund which means you are still out the product and have to get it elsewhere or online like i do.

Luckily out of the probably 40 boxes i got for Legion only one was mispacked. I had contacted Asmodee in Nov and they still never sent a replacement. So i think they were having issues then. I am about to say screw it and just 3d print a base for my poor dewback, i just have no clue what base was supposed to come with him.

angel of death 007 wrote:
Luckily out of the probably 40 boxes i got for Legion only one was mispacked. I had contacted Asmodee in Nov and they still never sent a replacement. So i think they were having issues then. I am about to say screw it and just 3d print a base for my poor dewback, i just have no clue what base was supposed to come with him.

I imagine if you ask the question regarding base size on the FFG Legion forum, someone would be willing to give you the measurement.

 Dysartes wrote:

angel of death 007 wrote:
Luckily out of the probably 40 boxes i got for Legion only one was mispacked. I had contacted Asmodee in Nov and they still never sent a replacement. So i think they were having issues then. I am about to say screw it and just 3d print a base for my poor dewback, i just have no clue what base was supposed to come with him.

I imagine if you ask the question regarding base size on the FFG Legion forum, someone would be willing to give you the measurement.

Ya I am still in the process of building my Prusa MK3s, i should have just bought one assembled. I think it is probably the size of some of their other products, not sure if it is like the same as the AT ST or smaller like the tauntans

angel of death 007 wrote:

Luckily out of the probably 40 boxes i got for Legion only one was mispacked. I had contacted Asmodee in Nov and they still never sent a replacement. So i think they were having issues then. I am about to say screw it and just 3d print a base for my poor dewback, i just have no clue what base was supposed to come with him.

My Dewback base measures 7cm.

frankelee wrote:

angel of death 007 wrote:

Luckily out of the probably 40 boxes i got for Legion only one was mispacked. I had contacted Asmodee in Nov and they still never sent a replacement. So i think they were having issues then. I am about to say screw it and just 3d print a base for my poor dewback, i just have no clue what base was supposed to come with him.

My Dewback base measures 7cm.

Thank you very much for that. Once I get my 3d printer built i will just print one, i am over Asmodee i have tried to get a replacement part.

Most of us in the EU we return to the POS (Point of Sale, not the other definition ;-). So for most of us this isn't news or anything else.

Sure, I've contacted companies that have had other policies in place, but those are generally US companies or are the actual POS (due to being KS product).

I think this isn't a bad policy, as long as the backend of the policy is well fleshed out. I suspect that using the default supply chain might actually be more efficient (for FFG/Asmodee).

 Thargrim wrote:
Simply for the sheer number of times i've had compenents missing from X wing or Legion boxes, or X wing miniatures being terribly built or broken and poorly made. I'm much more likely to return an item and get my money back than return it and wait weeks for a replacement.

Man, talk about death by a thousand small self-inflicted cuts.

I wonder what schmuck's gonna be ignorant enough to fall for the various cost-cutting measures taken on FFG in the last few months, and realize, too late, they're buying a game company that's past its Star Wars prime and lost its customer base.

Well, not my problem. My gaming money's going to three non-boardgame KS in March. I still expect to buy some FFG games this year, when they're heavily discounted during November and December.