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Made in no
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis





Hefnaheim

 Dysartes wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
there's a global pandemic going on. are people really playing tons of games right now anyway?


Americans be like "what pandemic" as they cough out their lungs over their gaming tables.


It's depressing, it really is.


No one outside the US is suprised by what goes on there any more.

On topic

No say no to drugs and AoS and you will be fine
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



NE Ohio, USA

BrianDavion wrote:
there's a global pandemic going on. are people really playing tons of games right now anyway?


Yes, but within a small tightly controlled circle & not at the shops.
There's also Table Top Simulator & other forms of Virtual Tabletops.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/16 05:40:22


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Times of upheaval can be good opportunities to try other games.

They can also be good times to stop chasing a meta and play some games with cool toys you already own while you wait for the rules to settle before making new changes.
   
Made in ca
Dangerous Outrider




Montreal, QC Canada

There are so many games out there I recommend trying anything and everything. You don't have to limit yourself to GW or GW minis.

There are just so many games out there! Its ridiculous! Hell I'm half way through building a Frostgrave Warband that I can also use for Rangers of Shadow Deep. Meanwhile I'm waiting for my Elder Scrolls box set to arrive.

Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!!
The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage 
   
Made in gb
Twisting Tzeentch Horror






Of course it is. Not because it should be a knee-jerk reaction to some of the elements of 9th, but because it is a great system.

Plus the models are all incredible. Most are far nicer than anything in 40k right now (yes yes the void dragon, but it's not out yet)

 insaniak wrote:

You can choose to focus on the parts of a hobby that make you unhappy, or you can choose to focus on the parts that you enjoy.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
Of course it is. Not because it should be a knee-jerk reaction to some of the elements of 9th, but because it is a great system.


So maneuver is relevant now? Outflanking is possible and has real consequences for the flanked unit? Or is it still 'shove everything to the center and the hardest unit wins'?

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






chaos0xomega wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
there's a global pandemic going on. are people really playing tons of games right now anyway?


Americans be like "what pandemic" as they cough out their lungs over their gaming tables.


Theres also TTS....

15k+
:harlequin: 4k
Beastmen 9500
CoS: 3500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

 Vulcan wrote:
 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
Of course it is. Not because it should be a knee-jerk reaction to some of the elements of 9th, but because it is a great system.


So maneuver is relevant now? Outflanking is possible and has real consequences for the flanked unit? Or is it still 'shove everything to the center and the hardest unit wins'?


Is there only one specific way for a game to be good?

   
Made in ca
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





British Columbia

 Vulcan wrote:
 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
Of course it is. Not because it should be a knee-jerk reaction to some of the elements of 9th, but because it is a great system.


So maneuver is relevant now? Outflanking is possible and has real consequences for the flanked unit? Or is it still 'shove everything to the center and the hardest unit wins'?

Still mostly a card game with miniatures. There's some micro positioning complexity but it's far more gamey than wargamey if that makes sense.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






The AoS matched play scenarios have been, and still are, mostly good. They stop the game from turning into a center-board-mosh-pit.

Consider; Games Workshop rules not so much games but as toolboxes for players to craft an experience from, and open/narrative/matched play just examples of how things can be put together. 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





BrianDavion wrote:
there's a global pandemic going on. are people really playing tons of games right now anyway?


Well there are countries where it's rampart, there's countries that have contained it to stage where it was more than held down. I have been able to play all summer.

Albeit it's getting bit worrying now with 2nd wave approaching so we might have to close down again.

Also TTS games have become rather popular lately. Or don't those count for some reason?-)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The AoS matched play scenarios have been, and still are, mostly good. They stop the game from turning into a center-board-mosh-pit.


Yep. The scenarios help a lot. Recently they have been adding ones also that actually encourage not taking double turn which is excelent. More of those tyvm.

Last game I did anything but rush into center and see who's toughest. Rather kept my distance, gave priority to opponent and sliced piece by piece his army and used summonings to outflank his whole army capturing objectives and drawing bloodthirster away from main fight. Opponent left his flank and rear unguarded and I took advantage of it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/18 07:11:13


12 factions for Lord of The Rings
4663
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



NE Ohio, USA

 Vulcan wrote:
 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
Of course it is. Not because it should be a knee-jerk reaction to some of the elements of 9th, but because it is a great system.


So maneuver is relevant now? Outflanking is possible and has real consequences for the flanked unit? Or is it still 'shove everything to the center and the hardest unit wins'?


Depends upon what you play, who you play (as in person), & how you play.
   
Made in us
Kovnik





washington state USA

Why?

I mean Why AOS?

If you are taking a break from say 40K why would you want to once again return to the abusive relationship that is GWs overpriced product and poorly written rules?

You could play something like mantics version of fantasy -kings of war and use whatever minis you like as noted in previous posts
or you could play infinity
or the fantastic DUST 1947 system
or flames of war
or star wars legion
or bolt action and the host of other games from warlord

The point is there are plenty of other systems out there that do not require the level of investment demanded by GW. even if you do love the lore and universe they built. as a veteran gamer i can tell you it is good to play other systems that provide a different gameplay experience so you do not go full burn out on GW stuff.


 
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I never would have called it back when AoS was new, but 40k is starting to feel so much like AoS that I'm half-sold on the idea.


That's not a bug, that's a feature.

Actually the best option if you're not satisfied with the balance or flow of a current edition is to go back to one where you WERE happy with it. It's what I did. And I am having less problems finding opponents than I thought I would.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in us
Kovnik





washington state USA

 Just Tony wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
I never would have called it back when AoS was new, but 40k is starting to feel so much like AoS that I'm half-sold on the idea.


That's not a bug, that's a feature.

Actually the best option if you're not satisfied with the balance or flow of a current edition is to go back to one where you WERE happy with it. It's what I did. And I am having less problems finding opponents than I thought I would.




Well there is that, i have an entire topic here on dakka dedicated to that very concept.

5th ed is alive alive and well again at my FLGS


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
Of course it is. Not because it should be a knee-jerk reaction to some of the elements of 9th, but because it is a great system.


So maneuver is relevant now? Outflanking is possible and has real consequences for the flanked unit? Or is it still 'shove everything to the center and the hardest unit wins'?


Is there only one specific way for a game to be good?


If maneuver can't win you an advantage all you're doing is playing rock-paper-scissors with a lot of extra hassle.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/19 00:28:47


CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

Rock, Paper, Scissors is a classic game. Not every game needs to be chess to be good.

Besides, maneuver is necessary in any game where pieces have to move at all in order to interact. Naturally I assumed you meant a precise maneuvering for specific advantages as opposed to the more basic maneuvering advantages of AOS.

   
Made in us
Ghastly Grave Guard





LA

Well the rules of AoS appeal to me more than 40k i've gotta say the universe itself is what kills my interest. I don't understand why they couldn't have just kept the old world, and just revamped the rules. The old world was fantastical but also grounded in some ways, it felt more like classical fantasy. Whereas AoS is more over the top (even for GW standards) and aesthetically too clean, not enough grit. Plus with them bringing back the old world as a game system I feel no need to invest into a universe I do not care about.

 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 Thargrim wrote:
Well the rules of AoS appeal to me more than 40k i've gotta say the universe itself is what kills my interest. I don't understand why they couldn't have just kept the old world, and just revamped the rules. The old world was fantastical but also grounded in some ways, it felt more like classical fantasy. Whereas AoS is more over the top (even for GW standards) and aesthetically too clean, not enough grit. Plus with them bringing back the old world as a game system I feel no need to invest into a universe I do not care about.
This is a 100% legitimate reason not to play AoS, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Personally I like the setting, but if I did not I would find a different game.

Consider; Games Workshop rules not so much games but as toolboxes for players to craft an experience from, and open/narrative/matched play just examples of how things can be put together. 
   
Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending





UK

KoW and Oathmark would be my recommendations, along with Frostgrave which has just had a 2nd edition released.

Or wait a few years for Warhammer:Old World which will probably replace AoS as a core game once it returns. A bunch of people I know are back to playing 6th edition WHFB as standard, I would personally love to play 3rd edition 40k again, those two editions are the golden era of both games, where they went back to the drawing board for a rewrite to make the rules clean and simple, fairly well-balanced without too much bloat. Everything since has just added further layers of complexity and special rules bloat, making for longer games that aren't as fun.

For people who enjoy that level of complexity, Infinity does it better.

Necromunda is pretty good, just don't get too caught up with trying to be competitive with it unless you have the full set of 250+ rare tactics cards off ebay.

Best game GW currently makes is LotR, by a long shot. Only system with refined rules that aren't overworked and don't take too long to play or have a set of card decks and loads of counters on the table.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2020/08/19 10:21:33


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




If people are really looking for a different system to play while they wait for 9th to settle down I'd advise any number of non-GW games. There are plenty out there to scratch various different itches, and many of them are model agnostic. Branching out away from GW may also give people a different experience they didn't know they were missing.
   
Made in gb
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






 LunarSol wrote:
Times of upheaval can be good opportunities to try other games.

They can also be good times to stop chasing a meta and play some games with cool toys you already own while you wait for the rules to settle before making new changes.


Let’s pick one not entirely at random- Void 1.1. All those peeps clamouring for AA and D10s in 40k. It’s right there. Give it a go with your 40k minis, the rules (and all the army books) are free due to it being a semi dead game. But that is the 40k certain people want, right?



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps




 Eldarain wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
Of course it is. Not because it should be a knee-jerk reaction to some of the elements of 9th, but because it is a great system.


So maneuver is relevant now? Outflanking is possible and has real consequences for the flanked unit? Or is it still 'shove everything to the center and the hardest unit wins'?

Still mostly a card game with miniatures. There's some micro positioning complexity but it's far more gamey than wargamey if that makes sense.


Wait. What's the 'card game' element to AoS?

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Rock, Paper, Scissors is a classic game. Not every game needs to be chess to be good.

Besides, maneuver is necessary in any game where pieces have to move at all in order to interact. Naturally I assumed you meant a precise maneuvering for specific advantages as opposed to the more basic maneuvering advantages of AOS.


Rock Paper Scissors can be done with no table, no terrain, no minis, and no hassle. AoS... not so much, but the complexity of the game itself remains the same.

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Voss wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
Of course it is. Not because it should be a knee-jerk reaction to some of the elements of 9th, but because it is a great system.


So maneuver is relevant now? Outflanking is possible and has real consequences for the flanked unit? Or is it still 'shove everything to the center and the hardest unit wins'?

Still mostly a card game with miniatures. There's some micro positioning complexity but it's far more gamey than wargamey if that makes sense.


Wait. What's the 'card game' element to AoS?


Not literally. In the eyes of some, AOS (and 40k certainly) play like a CCG that just happens to have minis.



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

 Vulcan wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Rock, Paper, Scissors is a classic game. Not every game needs to be chess to be good.

Besides, maneuver is necessary in any game where pieces have to move at all in order to interact. Naturally I assumed you meant a precise maneuvering for specific advantages as opposed to the more basic maneuvering advantages of AOS.


Rock Paper Scissors can be done with no table, no terrain, no minis, and no hassle. AoS... not so much, but the complexity of the game itself remains the same.


Right. It’s a simple game that lets me use the minis I want without a whole lot of stress and memorization. I’d call that pretty good.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Rock, Paper, Scissors is a classic game. Not every game needs to be chess to be good.

Besides, maneuver is necessary in any game where pieces have to move at all in order to interact. Naturally I assumed you meant a precise maneuvering for specific advantages as opposed to the more basic maneuvering advantages of AOS.


Rock Paper Scissors can be done with no table, no terrain, no minis, and no hassle. AoS... not so much, but the complexity of the game itself remains the same.


Right. It’s a simple game that lets me use the minis I want without a whole lot of stress and memorization. I’d call that pretty good.


That's a perfectly valid opinion. Just do me the honor of allowing me my opinion as well.

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

Of course. I only took exception when it sounded like someone up thread implied there was only one way to make AOS good, by making it into a game it was never meant to be.

I recognize that there are many great games people love that simply do nothing for me. I like it when games that I do like aren’t changed or constantly what upon for not being just another variation of the same type of thing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/19 18:02:16


   
Made in us
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit






Across the Rubicon

 Vulcan wrote:


So maneuver is relevant now? Outflanking is possible and has real consequences for the flanked unit? Or is it still 'shove everything to the center and the hardest unit wins'?


I would say the outflanking is quite possible in AoS. Teleport is often seen as a very important power, as is Fly and high movement. As for actually performing an outflanking maneuver, it allows more of your unit to engage more of the enemy unit as well as reduce movement options or even retreat if full encirclement is accomplished. In a game where many missions don't have static objective locations or those static objective locations aren't known, reducing your opponent's options in where they can move their forces, particularly if already part of a fall back, has outflanking revealing its uses. But no, AoS doesn't simply yield bonuses for touching the side or rear of an enemy unit.

I very much play my Warrior/Knight heavy S2D army as a rank file force in AoS and plan to do the same with LRL which is part of the reason I decided to start collecting them. I like that while AoS doesn't generally require me to form lines, squares or other formations it does sometimes generate organically reasons why I would want to. I want to protect an objective and my Sorcerer Lord? Form Square with my Chaos Warriors. I want to halt my opponent's advance and potentially start to wrap around their unit to get even more models in weapon range? A two rank line of troops works well for that. Even as the skirmishers game that AoS, there are some natural consequences that will lead players to form up their units matching historical formations and play without the rules dictating them nor models forced to conform to them.


The Spoilers show some of the setups of previous games with my S2D armies. Note, in the second photo while my warriors bunched up getting ready to form square on the near green dice objectives, I had my knights on the flank which later in the game performed a brilliant pincer of the KO whose fyreslayer wedge broke down to my Varanguard, Karkadrak Lord shock charge.
Spoiler:



But no, not all armies in AoS work like pre-WWI rank and file armies with line infantry, cavalry, etc. So outflanking in that sense doesn't really work.


   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Though flanking has it's own disadvantage. If you hit your unit on small flank of unit it's not much unit can do except remove casualties. Not fight back in any meaningful way.

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
4663
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
 
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