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 lasgunpacker wrote:
The real question is why aren't these on regular sale all the time? 40k needs terrain, and these are great kits... and hardly any other terrain is left anyway.

I don't know anyone who disagrees, except GW bean counters.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 lasgunpacker wrote:
The real question is why aren't these on regular sale all the time? 40k needs terrain, and these are great kits... and hardly any other terrain is left anyway.

I don't know anyone who disagrees, except GW bean counters.

I think this part of the plan they started a few years ago to address chronic production capacity issues; they openly said they would be removing some products from the catalogue and the bringing them back periodically for people to order. I’m guessing these are in that category. I can see how that would work in their favour; they don’t have to worry about stocking items with low sales volume and by doing a MTO drop they probably get more orders from people on the fence than if it’s something sat on people’s “I’ll buy that at some point” list.

The biggest problem is that they’ve never really stated what products are being treated like this, so we have no idea if a removed item is coming back, or when.

You'd think buildings would be enough of an evergreen product though.

I just noticed this for preorder, it's not bad for GW prices.

https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/killzone-volkus-2024?queryID=42023e374e7ee58a50415ac15e890ec3

This is why the MTO scenery is not on permanent availability. So many small-order sets keep appearing.
Terrain is very FOMO for GW, maybe to keep the table layouts from looking too similar.

Does anyone in here know enough about the injection molding process to come to a few fairly educated conclusions to explain the situation better for us non-informed?

For example, do they have different sized machines for different sizes sprues, and would it be safe to assume they don't have as many of the larger machines that would produce these sized kits, and they then compete with some of the larger models also for production time (baneblades, stompas etc).

I thought the scenery was all done in China, or did they move it back in house?

 Flinty wrote:
I thought the scenery was all done in China, or did they move it back in house?

Might be Internet reverb but the MTO are in house as I understand it, all terrain might be.

There used to be a mix of machines at GW with some of them not able to handle the very large sprues, but that was before their most recent factory upgrade so i'm not sure if it's still true,

(and in terms of sprue production older stuff will have been cut in smaller moulds that have to be run by themselves, whereas newer ones will be tooled as part of a larger family mould were multiple sprues will be made at once and then snapped apart, or if you only want to run part of a mould the bits you don't want can be blocked off)

 lasgunpacker wrote:
The real question is why aren't these on regular sale all the time? 40k needs terrain, and these are great kits... and hardly any other terrain is left anyway.

GW moves in mysterious ways.

From what I gather terrain is always a slower seller for GW to shift compared to models. That was part of the reason they did the whole push behind "faction terrain" as a means to help drive sales.

Another aspect is that a lot of the terrain is produced overseas. So chances are GW finds it easier to do one big order and shipment and then simply sell out rather than restocking and having regular shipments and orders.

Being slow to sell they might have found that big pushes like a Made to Order helps drive the sales higher than if they were just on the shelf.

MTO for terrain is fine, as long as:

1) GW adds some financing option for them. I might not always have the money when a MTO order opens up, and the windows are usually a bit tight. LGS's often offer financing, but they cannot be used for placing MTO orders..

2) There is some sort of MTO "roadmap" which will tell us what is coming. Doesnt necessarily have to be kit by kit, just by thematic terrain group would do (such as "Imperial Sector Terrain - Q4" etc)

Personally, I love collecting terrain even more than actual miniatures, but I know I'm an outlier, and typically most players never bother buying terrain (or resort to as cheap solutions as possible). Therefore, not having constant stock of terrain is probably financially sound for GW

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I just noticed this for preorder, it's not bad for GW prices

You get just about enough pieces (if you don't mind combining a few wall ends into broken walls) in a sanctum administratus box to build an extra story onto the corner ruins in that kit.

Can be used to create a few rooftops a couple of inches lower than the rest for variety.

Those Vertigus walls in the Hivestorm (KZ Volkus) also seem like they could be compatible with the Imperial Sector walls, correct?

I have two full sets of those in fact, one set from the big Vertigus box that came with that awesome datashrine piece, and another from KT Hivestorm. If they too can be mixed and matched with these MTO kits, I'm going to be in a brilliant place for my future terrain builds!

 lasgunpacker wrote:
The real question is why aren't these on regular sale all the time? 40k needs terrain, and these are great kits... and hardly any other terrain is left anyway.

Takes up valuable production time that could be used to manufacture more copies of Skaventide.......

Having them constantly available would reduce FOMO......

They are not space marines

 Overread wrote:

 lasgunpacker wrote:
The real question is why aren't these on regular sale all the time? 40k needs terrain, and these are great kits... and hardly any other terrain is left anyway.

GW moves in mysterious ways.

From what I gather terrain is always a slower seller for GW to shift compared to models. That was part of the reason they did the whole push behind "faction terrain" as a means to help drive sales.

Another aspect is that a lot of the terrain is produced overseas. So chances are GW finds it easier to do one big order and shipment and then simply sell out rather than restocking and having regular shipments and orders.

Being slow to sell they might have found that big pushes like a Made to Order helps drive the sales higher than if they were just on the shelf.

This is the catch 22 of their operating logic, they rely on the visual impact of the game to sell and market, to do that you need a cool battlefield, to do that you need terrain. However they've also conditioned us all to want more minis and big armies. Hence terrain is typically low down on the priority list and when it is there, GW is by far the most expensive option.

To fix this they need to accept terrain as a smaller profit margin, or use it as a "free extra" in more stuff. Instead they're a slow seller that's wildly undercut by easily available mdf and/or 3d print stuff.

Dudeface wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 lasgunpacker wrote:
The real question is why aren't these on regular sale all the time? 40k needs terrain, and these are great kits... and hardly any other terrain is left anyway.

GW moves in mysterious ways.

From what I gather terrain is always a slower seller for GW to shift compared to models. That was part of the reason they did the whole push behind "faction terrain" as a means to help drive sales.

Another aspect is that a lot of the terrain is produced overseas. So chances are GW finds it easier to do one big order and shipment and then simply sell out rather than restocking and having regular shipments and orders.

Being slow to sell they might have found that big pushes like a Made to Order helps drive the sales higher than if they were just on the shelf.

This is the catch 22 of their operating logic, they rely on the visual impact of the game to sell and market, to do that you need a cool battlefield, to do that you need terrain. However they've also conditioned us all to want more minis and big armies. Hence terrain is typically low down on the priority list and when it is there, GW is by far the most expensive option.

To fix this they need to accept terrain as a smaller profit margin, or use it as a "free extra" in more stuff. Instead they're a slow seller that's wildly undercut by easily available mdf and/or 3d print stuff.

There are other aspects too - a lot of terrain is big and bulky so hard to transport. More so than most models. So it discourages everyone from buying their own terrain to bring to the game. So typically the venue/store/that really super keen person has all the stuff and then just shares it out. So rather than everyone buying it for every army; its perhaps one person per club with enough terrain for only a few tables at once.

Meanwhile those who game at home can still be using the good old options of boxes, tableclothes and so forth.

Also, even without travel terrain is a sod to store.

This stuff can be assembled to be modular, but you then need to practice care during a game.

But ultimately, not every gamer has the space, or even the desire, to have their own gaming board. And those of us that do (or in my case, will again, once I’ve bought my forever home) only need so much. Enough for say, a comfortable 8x4 and some variety, but that’s about it.

So its sales potential, compared to army units, is more limited.

For example, I’ve spent around £300 or so (after discount) on GW’s Legions Imperialis terrain. And once all built, that’ll be more than enough for solid board coverage and variety between games. In future I may want to add some really large buildings, just for lols, but for the most part? That spend is done. And no matter how many LI armies I end up with? That terrain will serve it all.

That's another good point - people buy the same models over again to repaint them in a new style; or to expand their army and such.

Most people are happy to throw down the 20year old "my first terrain" on the board cause its good enough.


I guess we take more pride and focus on the armies much more than the table.

Not to mention all of those of us who wind up collectors more than gamers tend to collect armies (oft with the intent to play) rather than tables worth of terrain.

Though adding more sets does encourage future purchase, because Shiny New Hobby Magpie.

I am tempted by a couple of these, but it all depends on disposable income this month. Still awaiting the inheritance cheque, which would be handy!

Re: age, these kits premiered in the 2018 Kill Team starter.

 tauist wrote:
Those Vertigus walls in the Hivestorm (KZ Volkus) also seem like they could be compatible with the Imperial Sector walls, correct?

I have two full sets of those in fact, one set from the big Vertigus box that came with that awesome datashrine piece, and another from KT Hivestorm. If they too can be mixed and matched with these MTO kits, I'm going to be in a brilliant place for my future terrain builds!

The floors are at different levels. There's mention in their rules about treating all the heights as the same for mechanical purposes, but the above-ground floors are not the same level as those of the older terrain.

 tauist wrote:
Those Vertigus walls in the Hivestorm (KZ Volkus) also seem like they could be compatible with the Imperial Sector walls, correct?

Yes, all the same size, though they are mechanicus styled.

And there are a few doors to deal with.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:
Given my experience with their last terrain MTO, I'm more than a little hesitant.

What happened?

Each MTO always has the note to allow up to 180 days for delivery (aka 6 months).
Yet almost anything I've ever ordered through one of these MTOs, even if ordered day 1, has taken 8 to almost 9 months to reach me.

ccs wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:
Given my experience with their last terrain MTO, I'm more than a little hesitant.

What happened?

Each MTO always has the note to allow up to 180 days for delivery (aka 6 months).
Yet almost anything I've ever ordered through one of these MTOs, even if ordered day 1, has taken 8 to almost 9 months to reach me.

Ouch.

I’ve received MTO stuff within a few weeks. It’s really all over the place.

 Overread wrote:
From what I gather terrain is always a slower seller for GW to shift compared to models. That was part of the reason they did the whole push behind "faction terrain" as a means to help drive sales.

That's just the prices. The old Kill Zones for Kill Team were well appreciated because they where cheap. I got terrain for the the half or even the third compared to what they charged for the parts. The later Kill Zones were more expansive, but still better. Now we have some terrain that is usually not available, in Kill Team boxes or Necromunda and of course now as MtO with even more price increase.

There is nothing stopping GW from doing bundle boxes of terrain as a direct only or holiday box set. Could mix and match parts to make new interesting buildings, like the corner wall sprue from the battle sanctum, 3 wide walls from the sector, and big arch from the basillicum.

ccs wrote:

Spoiler:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:
Given my experience with their last terrain MTO, I'm more than a little hesitant.

What happened?

Each MTO always has the note to allow up to 180 days for delivery (aka 6 months).
Yet almost anything I've ever ordered through one of these MTOs, even if ordered day 1, has taken 8 to almost 9 months to reach me.

This has been my experience too. I’ve done MTO twice now, and both times it took about 9 months to get to me.

The last time was for the Tau terrain, which I finally received at the end of November, and they refunded me the cost of the Tidewall droneport because they didn’t have it. Imagine my surprise when I went on the website, found it was now (apparently) a normal stock item, and was sold out….

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
You'd think buildings would be enough of an evergreen product though.

I just noticed this for preorder, it's not bad for GW prices.

https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/killzone-volkus-2024?queryID=42023e374e7ee58a50415ac15e890ec3

That looks like quite a great deal actual (for a GW product). We are looking at adding some more casual ruins/small build to add to our table (the nicer the quality, the better), and this could be the one box we need to fill that role. Waiting to see the MTO scenery prices, but I doubt it'll be as advantageous as this box.

Volkus terrain is nice, but not modular at all, which is the appeal of the sector imperialis/mechanicus kits

I miss the cities of death kits. My only issue there was how few intact parts you got vs ruins.