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MasterSlowPoke wrote:Why do some of you think that the vehicles don't need a crew? Have they ever shown the Necrons to have a automated vehicles?

The Monolith, and the pylon is an uncrewed semi-sentient weapon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zweischneid wrote:

Deathly Angel wrote:
Personally, I really like the barge, apart from the crew I guess , though I don't see why that can't be fixed by cutting off the legs and attaching the lower spine to the vehicle like destroyers, or removing them altogether.

Because that would be the most stupid thing ever? What happens when a Necron fixed to a vehicle phases out? Is a new Necron quickly cut-apart in mid-battle and locked in? Does the entire vehicle phase out? Is it only half-functional from then until eternity? What happens to a half-Necron once he appears on the other side of the "phase-out"?

Seriously, half-Necrons on multi-necron-vehicles are the dummest thing ever. Don't do it.

It works just like Phase Out always has, everything phases out Necron ruled and non- Necron ruled alike.

insaniak wrote:

gorgon wrote:1) Because they've always kinda been TK in space, at least a little.

Necrons pre-date Tomb Kings.

Although they don't predate mummies, in GW games or in the real world.

Another point I should have made is that if Necrons get more sentience and individuality in the new fluff as rumored, it follows to make the models more ornate and evoke their former civilization.

Zweischneid wrote:

Deathly Angel wrote:
Personally, I really like the barge, apart from the crew I guess , though I don't see why that can't be fixed by cutting off the legs and attaching the lower spine to the vehicle like destroyers, or removing them altogether.

Because that would be the most stupid thing ever? What happens when a Necron fixed to a vehicle phases out? Is a new Necron quickly cut-apart in mid-battle and locked in? Does the entire vehicle phase out? Is it only half-functional from then until eternity? What happens to a half-Necron once he appears on the other side of the "phase-out"?

Seriously, half-Necrons on multi-necron-vehicles are the dummest thing ever. Don't do it.

Since apparently phase-out is gone, your argument is invalid.
However, the necrons piloting do look silly.

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:HOLD THE PHONE!

Mat Ward has struck again! The Necrons are now allied with the Tau! I even have visual evidence.


See the little symbol on Trazyn the Infinite's hip?

We're doomed.

_Tim?

You're like the tenth dude to post this canned joke without being perceptive enough to notice the Eldar rune right beside the Tau icon.

Well, either the tenth dude, or the same dude recycling the same joke on every 40K board on the internet...

NecronLord3 wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Why do some of you think that the vehicles don't need a crew? Have they ever shown the Necrons to have a automated vehicles?

The Monolith, and the pylon is an uncrewed semi-sentient weapon.

Where does it say that? The fluff for the Monolith is only like a paragraph long and just describes its role.

Also, I noticed there doesn't seem to be any skulls (aside from Necron heads, which don't really count) in this release, at all.

ed. oh wait, Flayed Ones. But those are kind of appropriate there.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Not if they're badly written. And the Sanguinor and Draigo do kinda do the two things you mentioned.

How so? Neither the Sanguinor nor Draigo make a ret-con appereance in any established fluff like the Swarmlord does. Whatever justification there may or may not by for Swarmy in some RPG-book, his presentation in the Nid-Book still rips 20 years of established Hive-Fleet War Fluff a new one. Neither the Sanguinor nor Draigo do that.

Second, both Sanguinor and Draigo perfectly epitomize critical aspects of their respective army; in the case of the Sanguinor the silver-line that is a hope of salvation for a Chapter plunging into dark doom. For Draigo, the ultimate hero's dilemma to either remain pure at the price of ineffectiveness, or change the course of history at the price of your own corruption. Both a brilliant archetypes that both fantastically augment and highlight the character of their respective armies.

The Swarmlord (Deathwatch story non-withstanding) on the other hand is a violation of the same army it sits in (as is the Decapitator of the Dark Eldar by the way, scheming Necron-style to end all life, rather than indulge in the Dark Eldars normal perverse decadence on the edge of their own doom). The Deathwatch story, while making the Swarmlord story tolerable, also painfully illustrates how bad the first pitch was in the actual Codex.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Why do some of you think that the vehicles don't need a crew? Have they ever shown the Necrons to have a automated vehicles?

The monolith....

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Why do some of you think that the vehicles don't need a crew? Have they ever shown the Necrons to have a automated vehicles?

The Monolith, and the pylon is an uncrewed semi-sentient weapon.

Where does it say that? The fluff for the Monolith is only like a paragraph long and just describes its role.

Also, I noticed there doesn't seem to be any skulls (aside from Necron heads, which don't really count) in this release, at all.

ed. oh wait, Flayed Ones. But those are kind of appropriate there.

It says it in the rules for the monolith, which is much more than 1 paragraph.

NecronLord3 wrote:
It works just like Phase Out always has, everything phases out Necron ruled and non- Necron ruled alike.

So by shooting one random, vehicle-attached pilot, you can force-phase-out the army commander/overlord who is with him on the Barge, and with him the strategic heart of an entire battle-force. Doesn't sound like terrible, ancient intellect too me. Even Grot's would fall over laughing on that one. No thanks. Keep the pilot... in the "logic-department", it's the only thing that even remotely makes any sense.

*I spent almost an hour typing a greatly detailed review of the infantry models but accidentally clicked on a link in my favourites bar and lost EVERYTHING. *

To summarise what I *would* have posted on the infantry:

The named Lords could be better themed by only being known by their titles, rather than individual names, I have no issues regarding the amount of bling, I love the Stormlord's pose, details and collar. Also actually like his/its crest. I'm not a fan of the Infinite's cowl, and don't like his too static pose.

First Necron Lord looks better than second for the same reasons as the Stormlord above, maybe a bit less bling would be nice as they rival the named lords in ornateness . The second Lord looks too static, and the crests can be trimmed off easily.

Love the Deathmarks, maybe they are so liked as opposed to the rest of the range is because they convey the menacong Terminator theme we no and love and are familiar with. Similar poses suggest that they will be Finecast.

Silly crests can be cut off the Lychguard, look pretty cool with warscythes. Insread of using a shield, perhaps some conversion can be made for forcefields and even represent them in the paintjob. Aesthetically reminiscent of the Pariahs, perhaps they could be the rumoured replacement rather than Crypteks?

Triarch Praetorians look awesome, love the ornament/device on backs, prefer Rods of the Covenant to Particle Blasters & Void Blades aesthetically. Perhaps Partical Blasters can be converted to be an extension of the actual arm.

Immortals convey the menacing theme well as do the Deathmarks. Their relative poularity is probably the same reason as stated for the Deathmarks.

The flayed ones are an interesting case. They are a new sculpt I assume will be replacing the old models, but do not appear as appealing. Firstly, their poses are too dynamic. hey should be shambling towards their victims as if half asleep. The flayed skin does not match that of the old models, And I would have liked their heads to be covered in flesh as well. The bottom right model appears almost identical to one of the VC Crypt Ghoul torsos, running forward, hunched over with a body attached to its back.

The reason that they are not covered in blood I would presume is due to the children GW tries to market to. If a parent saw these robots covered in blood and gore would they want to let their son into this violent and maturely themed hobby?

Finally, I'd like to point out that the new Necrons, at second glance, are not as similar to Tomb Kings as one might believe. A few conversions on each model could easily shift the entire army from the Egyptian theme back to the old Terminator look that so many people love. It is simply a matter of trimming off the crests and removing some of the ornamentation . A reasonable ability to work with greenstuff will be needed to do this for some of the details, but otherwise it all is very simple.

These Necrons would look more menacing if it wasn't for the bright colour scheme that the 'Eavy Metal team gave them. If they were painted in a darker metal tone, there probably wouldn't be so much criticism for the new range.

Edited. Nvm.. got ninja'd by like a page. Didn't refresh first

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:HOLD THE PHONE!

Mat Ward has struck again! The Necrons are now allied with the Tau! I even have visual evidence.


See the little symbol on Trazyn the Infinite's hip?

We're doomed.

_Tim?

The Blood Angels will be super jealous.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Why do some of you think that the vehicles don't need a crew? Have they ever shown the Necrons to have a automated vehicles?

The Monolith, and the pylon is an uncrewed semi-sentient weapon.

Where does it say that? The fluff for the Monolith is only like a paragraph long and just describes its role.

It says it in the rules for the monolith, which is much more than 1 paragraph.

Zweischneid wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:
It works just like Phase Out always has, everything phases out Necron ruled and non- Necron ruled alike.

So by shooting one random, vehicle-attached pilot, you can force-phase-out the army commander/overlord who is with him on the Barge, and with him the strategic heart of an entire battle-force. Doesn't sound like terrible, ancient intellect too me. Even Grot's would fall over laughing on that one. No thanks. Keep the pilot... in the "logic-department", it's the only thing that even remotely makes any sense.

WTF are you talking about? First of phase out as we knew it is gone. Second, if it did work as it used to, you kill 75% of the Necron models, not 1.

Mewiththeface wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:

Deathly Angel wrote:
Personally, I really like the barge, apart from the crew I guess , though I don't see why that can't be fixed by cutting off the legs and attaching the lower spine to the vehicle like destroyers, or removing them altogether.

Because that would be the most stupid thing ever? What happens when a Necron fixed to a vehicle phases out? Is a new Necron quickly cut-apart in mid-battle and locked in? Does the entire vehicle phase out? Is it only half-functional from then until eternity? What happens to a half-Necron once he appears on the other side of the "phase-out"?

Seriously, half-Necrons on multi-necron-vehicles are the dummest thing ever. Don't do it.

Since apparently phase-out is gone, your argument is invalid.
However, the necrons piloting do look silly.

It looks very very silly. The idea the a machine needs to interface using clunky human like controls with another machine is just plain stupid really.

Heck the technology of today with wireless communication now the default makes the idea completely redundant thats not to mention that GW did semi sentient vehicles in the last dex and with the destroyer body already used to get rid of the pilot problem these feel like more than a backwards step.

Basically there only needs to be one "pilot" and that is the vehicle itself.

I could see the problem with the two "crew" but the simple fix is to have a single central driver of a vehicles be attached to the craft like with the destroyer as already mentioned.

It doesn't look like an easy conversion for the command barge tbh maybe get rid of the crew and attach the driver wast down as an extension of the 'tail'.

The Cornerfag~ wrote:I don't think pilots fit with the old fluff.

It's really important to define old fluff here.



This is by far older than the plastic Destroyers that exist now. What you see is some kind of craft that is piloted by a Necron soldier. Interface? Joystick.

ceorron wrote:

Mewiththeface wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:

Deathly Angel wrote:
Personally, I really like the barge, apart from the crew I guess , though I don't see why that can't be fixed by cutting off the legs and attaching the lower spine to the vehicle like destroyers, or removing them altogether.

Because that would be the most stupid thing ever? What happens when a Necron fixed to a vehicle phases out? Is a new Necron quickly cut-apart in mid-battle and locked in? Does the entire vehicle phase out? Is it only half-functional from then until eternity? What happens to a half-Necron once he appears on the other side of the "phase-out"?

Seriously, half-Necrons on multi-necron-vehicles are the dummest thing ever. Don't do it.

Since apparently phase-out is gone, your argument is invalid.
However, the necrons piloting do look silly.

It looks very very silly. The idea the a machine needs to interface using clunky human like controls with another machine is just plain stupid really.

Heck the technology of today with wireless communication now the default makes the idea completely redundant thats not to mention that GW did semi sentient vehicles in the last dex and with the destroyer body already used to get rid of the pilot problem these feel like more than a backwards step.

Basically there only needs to be one "pilot" and that is the vehicle itself.

I could see the problem with the two "crew" but the simple fix is to have a single central driver of a vehicles be attached to the craft like with the destroyer as already mentioned.

It doesn't look like an easy conversion for the command barge tbh maybe get rid of the crew and attach the driver wast down as an extension of the 'tail'.

Have you ever seen Data input something on the computer in ST: TNG? So much for "clunky".

Anyway, it's probably easier to program a robot that is overlapped with a vestigial humanoid skillset to pilot a vehicle than it is to build a magical vehicle piloting program from the ground up. People are making a lot of assumptions about how easy it would be for the Necrons to do the latter, when we really don't have much to indicate that that is truly the case.

The barges do not need pilots. I can see the command barge using the lord however. The annihilation barge would look better without the two pilots, or if their bodies were more incorporated into the machine. Also, one thing we might have forgotten, These vehicles could be necrontyr vehicles, made to be piloted by necrontyr. We will just have to see the fluff behind them.
I do understand the arks carrying units though. Monoliths are slow as heck and probably take tons of resources, the skimmers however can probably move at least 5x faster so moving some units a couple of klicks, the arks make way more sense than monoliths.
Also, I am happy the green rods are gone, the textures on the model look way better than the simple round cylinder. If they would have remoulded the green rods into something more 'spiky' and 'elecrical' that would have sweet but the simple green rods were boring.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

kevin949 wrote:Why do some of you think that the vehicles don't need a crew? Have they ever shown the Necrons to have a automated vehicles?

The Monolith, and the pylon is an uncrewed semi-sentient weapon.

Where does it say that? The fluff for the Monolith is only like a paragraph long and just describes its role.

It says it in the rules for the monolith, which is much more than 1 paragraph.

It doesn't say anything about crew in the rules? It's not even immune to Crew Shaken/Stunned (the Power Matrix is, but the rest of the vehicle isn't).

It must be in the second printing codex then. I only have access to the first printing one at the moment. But I do know I've read it.

Deathly Angel wrote:

Ghost Ark

This looks like a great model, but with a bit of a silly concept. As others have already stated, Necrons would never use conventional transports instead of beaming in. It’s inspired by the galleys of antiquity, but does it really have to be a carbon copy? I do like the ‘drummer’ at the top, but would convert it to be part of the hull. I feel that the 'rowers' really don't fit in. Whether they are passengers or crew is irrrelavent to the fact that the vehicle itself should have the intelligence to operate its own weapons. I really hope that these won't be a mandatory choice for plausible lists just because the idea is so silly...

Doomsday Ark

This looks spectacular though. I love the look of it, even if it is the Ghost Ark upside down. Altruizine's idea of flipping the endcaps on page 4 is perfect. I'm not so much a fan of the beakhead at the front, though it can always be removed.

I may not be a fan of the whole new transport idea but they do remind me of the old Egyptian naval vessels and that IMO fits perfectly well with the overall feel they were trying to get.

I think the reason I like the Ghost Ark/Doomsday Machine is that both fit the Necrons' visual style well and look like vehicles.

Also, totally gonna replace/cut-off the head-dresses.

Zweischneid wrote:So by shooting one random, vehicle-attached pilot, you can force-phase-out the army commander/overlord who is with him on the Barge, and with him the strategic heart of an entire battle-force. Doesn't sound like terrible, ancient intellect too me. Even Grot's would fall over laughing on that one. No thanks. Keep the pilot... in the "logic-department", it's the only thing that even remotely makes any sense.

Learn how phase out works.

Currently, if the pilot is shot, there's no pilot for the barge. If the pilot is attached to the barge, there's no pilot for the barge. Either way, the barge won't phase out until the rest of the army phases out, so it will just be downed if either sort of pilot is shot. Giving the barge its own AI would fix the problem, but for some reason Games Workshop thought a pilot was more fitting.

Altruizine wrote:Anyway, it's probably easier to program a robot that is overlapped with a vestigial humanoid skillset to pilot a vehicle than it is to build a magical vehicle piloting program from the ground up. People are making a lot of assumptions about how easy it would be for the Necrons to do the latter, when we really don't have much to indicate that that is truly the case.

The Monolith, Tomb Spyder, Tombstalker, and Scarabs have their own AI. In particular, Scarabs having their own AI would suggest an ornate looking vessel like the Ghost Ark would have it too.

Inanimate wrote:

The Cornerfag~ wrote:I don't think pilots fit with the old fluff.

It's really important to define old fluff here.



This is by far older than the plastic Destroyers that exist now. What you see is some kind of craft that is piloted by a Necron soldier. Interface? Joystick.

Several people have shown this old model as proof of something... that Necron used to pilot craft? Firstly, the model is dumb. It was dumb then, and it's dumb now. Also, Necron look nothing like that now, so is this 'look' of the Necrons a canon one? If we are expected to believe that the necrons are unchanged in form for the last millions of years, then how is anything about the 'look' of the older necrons valid for discussions of current fluff?

Also, what happened to 'they'll be back' and 'beaming out'. Do they still do these or not? I mean, if they don't do them any more, is that a retcon? Is it that they used to do them, and now they don't (for some reason), or is it that the fluff is rewritten and they were never capable of those things?

NecronLord3 wrote:The Monolith, and the pylon is an uncrewed semi-sentient weapon.

How do you know there aren't people in the Monolith?

Howard A Treesong wrote:Several people have shown this old model as proof of something... that Necron used to pilot craft? Firstly, the model is dumb. It was dumb then, and it's dumb now. Also, Necron look nothing like that now, so is this 'look' of the Necrons a canon one? If we are expected to believe that the necrons are unchanged in form for the last millions of years, then how is anything about the 'look' of the older necrons valid for discussions of current fluff?

I think it's a Chaos Android (AKA the inspiration for Necrons).

Howard A Treesong wrote:How do you know there aren't people in the Monolith?

We don't; the old Necron codex doesn't say anything on the matter, so I guess it's really just the Tomb Spyders and Scarabs.

For those raging on piloted necron devices.

Did no-one consider that these might have been the ships the Necrontyr used BEFORE they became robotic? They all lost a good wodge of their brilliance after transition...

If they had fleets of these things in storage, why not use them?

I'm undecided on the new models yet.

Molten Butter wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:Several people have shown this old model as proof of something... that Necron used to pilot craft? Firstly, the model is dumb. It was dumb then, and it's dumb now. Also, Necron look nothing like that now, so is this 'look' of the Necrons a canon one? If we are expected to believe that the necrons are unchanged in form for the last millions of years, then how is anything about the 'look' of the older necrons valid for discussions of current fluff?

I think it's a Chaos Android (AKA the inspiration for Necrons).

No that is a true 'Necron' as released under 2nd ed, 'Chaos Androids' only had releases with Space Crusade and Epic.

I have about a dozen of those old Necrons and some scarabs, never had the flier because I thought it was silly. They were awesome in 2nd ed. Really though, the fluff for them then wasn't worker out and nor the style. It's only with the release of the modern army and plastic necrons that they really established the look and the fluff so I don't think holding up examples of these original necrons to make any sort of argument here is fair.

Molten Butter wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:How do you know there aren't people in the Monolith?

We don't; the old Necron codex doesn't say anything on the matter, so I guess it's really just the Tomb Spyders and Scarabs.

Probably because of all the vehicles in 40k it doesn't have a front really (unless you count the wavy door opening which I don't) Also it doesn't apear to have any view slits for the pilots and the guns shoot in 360 degrees suggesting that there really isn't a front.

Wow, this looks pretty cool. Thank you, Kroothawk!

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Several people have shown this old model as proof of something... that Necron used to pilot craft?

Precisely! The comment I responded to brought up the issue of pilots not fitting the old fluff. I presented him with an old, piloted model.

I agree with you, though. It looks pretty stupid, and I'm not a fan of the extra Necrons on the command barge with their legs dangling down. Other than that, I have no issues with Necrons being transported by "traditional" means (rather than teleportation or that craft can be piloted by one, and the controlled via touch interface.

I only have one thing to say about the leak.

Beasts of war I hope you die in a fire for spamming your name all over the images, and whoring yourself out like this.

OMAGASH!!!! these actually pretty damn good, i think ill be buying them ^^

juraigamer wrote:I only have one thing to say about the leak.

Beasts of war I hope you die in a fire for spamming your name all over the images, and whoring yourself out like this.

And how are they different from those who leaked out rumors and pictures of prototypes in the past? If GW had done the sensible thing and given us a preview of these models in the last WD or at any of the recent Gamesdays, it wouldn't have been left to a website with the awesome people at Beasts of War. I for one, am extremely grateful to these guys!