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Brother Coa wrote:There are also threads about destroying the Imperium.
And I don't wine about them.
And realistically - Tau are the only race that can be exterminated in 40k, in the present time.
The Imperium is under constant threat of destruction. Pretty much every rulebook and Imperial Codex implies that the Imperium is barely held together by the efforts of the military, the Inquisition, and the Administratum. Imperial fans don't whine because that's part of the Imperium's grimdark feel. As for the Tau, well, I'm not going to say anymore or risk starting another flame war.
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Armless Failure wrote:Some tau fans seem to think they are owed big threat status, why, I don't know.
It's because they're the only non-grimdark (or so it seems on the surface!) faction in 40k.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/29 15:52:01
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Jefffar wrote:
Of course. I had to explain why Imperium Fans frequently discuss Tau genocide instead of dealing with the real problems the Imperium faces.
We deal with real problems with Chaos and Tyranids. But when you got Tau fans that constantly wine about how much powerful Tau is - how can you ignore them?
WE explain then that they are minor threat in the galaxy, and they call us "Tau genocidalist".
Which is true, Tau forum posters keep saying how Tau is the best and how they have powerful weapons. It's just inviting trouble from Imperial or other forum posters.
Maybe you miss the point. People like the tau and you can't change that by making a thread about how you can kill them with your finger. Tau fans will still think that tau are the best and have the coolest guns. Why, It's personal choice. If it's your goal to get people to stop liking tau, you are doomed to fail. If your goal is to compare the power and ability of two different races, that will work, but you can't convince someone to stop liking what they like.
The fluff describes the Imperium as under constant threat of destruction. The same fluff describes the Tau as expanding and gaining power.
Yet I see more threads about wiping out the Tau than I do about wiping out the Imperium.
I agree the Tau are not major threat (at least militarily) as things stand. If the universe does eventually move forward the Tau may move from notable minor power to lesser galactic power, but that will take a while to accomplish.
As it is, they are the WH40K's David, the little guy with faith in something bigger than himself standing up to all the dark, evil giants.
But for some reason a lot of people want Goliath to win.
True, but it still irritating how the whine about the Greater Good is the best and how they have the best weapons. Fine, they have the fanciest gear, now if only they'd do me the additional kindness of stop whining about why the Greater Good is better than the rest of 40k.
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Jefffar wrote:The fluff describes the Imperium as under constant threat of destruction. The same fluff describes the Tau as expanding and gaining power.
Yet I see more threads about wiping out the Tau than I do about wiping out the Imperium.
I agree the Tau are not major threat (at least militarily) as things stand. If the universe does eventually move forward the Tau may move from notable minor power to lesser galactic power, but that will take a while to accomplish.
As it is, they are the WH40K's David, the little guy with faith in something bigger than himself standing up to all the dark, evil giants.
But for some reason a lot of people want Goliath to win.
Because in 40k universe, non-grimdark can't win. The Eldar and Mankind tried it, where did it get them, Fall of the Eldar and Age of Strife. The Orks and Necrons avoided that because they were grimdark from the start. And they can't become a galactic power. The Tau are approaching the limit of their warp technology. With inertialess drives eliminated with the new Necron Codex, the only FTL is warp and webway travel. With the Ethereals banning warp research and psychic experiments, the Tau can't progress. They'll be stuck in their corner of the galaxy and watch as either the Imperium is reborn or Chaos triumphs.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/29 16:02:49
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Yeah, Tau gear is pretty awesome - though it would be nice if most of it was more unique than Imperium Gear with a few numbers bumped. I hope the new Tau Codex makes things a lot more unique in that regard.
The Greater Good is awesome in it's own way, but at the same time horribly flawed because it can easily create an arrogance and extremism that is just as bad as anything the Eldar or the Humans have done.
Jefffar wrote:The fluff describes the Imperium as under constant threat of destruction. The same fluff describes the Tau as expanding and gaining power.
Yet I see more threads about wiping out the Tau than I do about wiping out the Imperium.
I agree the Tau are not major threat (at least militarily) as things stand. If the universe does eventually move forward the Tau may move from notable minor power to lesser galactic power, but that will take a while to accomplish.
As it is, they are the WH40K's David, the little guy with faith in something bigger than himself standing up to all the dark, evil giants.
But for some reason a lot of people want Goliath to win.
I think it's because the IoM use to be the good guys, but then the tau showed up and took that title. This upset some IoM fans and they take out frustrations by making threads trying to diminish the tau. Threads about how the IoM can totally kill the tau, threads about how the tau are totally evil. Threads about how other armies can destroy the tau, but the threads are stared by IoM fans.
Brother Coa wrote:There are also threads about destroying the Imperium.
And I don't wine about them.
And realistically - Tau are the only race that can be exterminated in 40k, in the present time.
The most likely cause of demise for the Empire is its own bloated, corrupt and internally divisive existance. As such, the Tau provide a direct counterpart as (largely) coherent, unified Xenos race working goal-oriented toward realising its own manifest destiny.
The Tau aren't meant to challenge the Imperium in the number of guns and boots on the ground (Orks), its unrepentant ruthlessness (Tyranids), it's ability for strategic foresight (Eldar) or its frenetic conviction to a cause (Chaos). Tau challenge the Imperiums ability to provide unifying vision and coherence to itself as a civilization in the galaxy.
If the Imperium actually COULD commit itself to logical, strategic and coherent action across the board, it wouldn't be the Imperium currently described in the fluff. That is the problem most people ignore in this comparion. They happily handwave the one big crucial flaw of the Imperium (its internal divisiveness) but don't handwave the one big crucial flaw of the Tau (its lack of numbers/size). But by skewing the comparion this way, it is flawed from the beginning. ä
If you make a comparison, you gotta either handwave the flaws of both factions, or better yet, those of neither.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/29 16:09:56
Jefffar wrote:But for some reason a lot of people want Goliath to win.
Yeah, you'd think the people who used 40k forums were human or something.
Maybe some of them are gue'vasa heretics.
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Brother Coa wrote:There are also threads about destroying the Imperium.
And I don't wine about them.
And realistically - Tau are the only race that can be exterminated in 40k, in the present time.
The most likely cause of demise for the Empire is its own bloated, corrupt and internally divisive existance. As such, the Tau provide a direct counterpart as (largely) coherent, unified Xenos race working goal-oriented toward realising its own manifest destiny.
The Tau aren't meant to challenge the Imperium in the number of guns and boots on the ground (Orks), its unrepentant ruthlessness (Tyranids), it's ability for strategic foresight (Eldar) or its frenetic conviction to a cause (Chaos). Tau challenge the Imperiums ability to provide unifying vision and coherence to itself as a civilization in the galaxy.
If the Imperium actually COULD commit itself to logical, strategic and coherent action across the board, it wouldn't be the Imperium currently described in the fluff.
Which is why the Imperium would be reborn, we would win...but that's not part of the thread...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/29 16:09:13
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Both of those races rely of the Imperium being the biggest target, whether they realize it or not. If the IoM collapses, the current enemies will leap on to it's blood corpse quite quickly, tau included. with the big kid on the block gone, those shoes will fall on either the Eldar or the Tau, and when the first collapses under the strain, the other will follow. The IoM's Dehuminization of it's citizenry is actually neccessary for it to continue to function, and neither the Tau nor the Eldar are prepared to sacrifice on that level.
Tadashi wrote:Which is why the Imperium would be reborn, we would win...but that's not part of the thread...
Not necessarly. And it is part of this threat.
Alot of inspiration for Tau Empires comes from Asimov, his "second Empire" and the thousand year plan. There, people with strategic foresight (artificially) raise a young, vibrant and, most importantly, socially inclusive new civilization next to the failing, bloated, corrupt old Galactic Imperium too. Not to challenge it, but to provide an anchor in the galaxy in anticipation of its inevitable collapse.
If the Imperium would fall, anarchy and strife would likely mean the galaxy would be devoured by the likes of Orks, Chaos, etc.... unless you have a nascent civilization in place that would be "non-Xenophobic" enough to actually incorporate the fragments of the old Empire under a unifiying philosophy.
Tadashi wrote:Which is why the Imperium would be reborn, we would win...but that's not part of the thread...
Not necessarly. And it is part of this threat.
Alot of inspiration for Tau Empires comes from Asimov, his "second Empire" and the thousand year plan. There, people with strategic foresight (artificially) raise a young, vibrant and, most importantly, socially inclusive new civilization next to the failing, bloated, corrupt old Galactic Imperium too. Not to challenge it, but to provide an anchor in the galaxy in anticipation of its inevitable collapse.
If the Imperium would fall, anarchy and strife would likely mean the galaxy would be devoured by the likes of Orks, Chaos, etc.... unless you have a nascent civilization in place that would be "non-Xenophobic" enough to actually incorporate the fragments of the old Empire under a unifiying philosophy.
So your saying that the tau are a imperial plot to give the IoM some hope for when they kick the bucket. That would explain why the IoM hasn't actually tried to kill the tau.
nomotog wrote:So your saying that the tau are a imperial plot to give the IoM some hope for when they kick the bucket. That would explain why the IoM hasn't actually tried to kill the tau.
I am not saying they are an imperial plot (nice spin on the theory though).
By the fluff though, they are clearly "Someone's" plot. This someone whipped up a convenient warp storm to shield them when they where vulnerable, hyper-accelerated their social and technological evolution, introduced the Ethereal caste in a suprise move "in a night full of lights in the sky" with (potentially) organs bioengineered to a template found at the other end of the galaxy.
Clearly, whoever this "Someone" is, he/she/it/they clearly must have had a reason. Moreover, he/she/it/they may have done it more than once (e.g. their might be other hyper-engineered space empires out there). Finally he/she/it/they may have, if they stick with the Asimov reference, have the ability of foresight/future sight and be interested to minimize/mitigate the "period of anarchy and barbarism" that would presumably follow the collapse of the IoM.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/29 16:55:14
Please grow up! You are just kicking on a dead dog. We all know that the space marines are the greatest threat to humanity. They destroyed humanities future with the horus heresy and they are becoming more power hungry.
I like I also like the Greater Good I love to
I think the are cute
But smell
Jefffar wrote:
Of course. I had to explain why Imperium Fans frequently discuss Tau genocide instead of dealing with the real problems the Imperium faces.
We deal with real problems with Chaos and Tyranids. But when you got Tau fans that constantly wine about how much powerful Tau is - how can you ignore them?
.
No, this is Dakka, where two or three posters are allowed to post their Tau genocide fantasy threads and hatred for all Tau players every week. They don't even need to mask their hatred anymore.
Space Crusader wrote:Please grow up! You are just kicking on a dead dog.
Exactly.
We all know that the space marines are the greatest threat to humanity. They destroyed humanities future with the horus heresy and they are becoming more power hungry.
Err... no. If all the Space Marines turned traitor at once it would be a larger-than-average blow to the Imperium. It wouldn't be anywhere near the scale of the HH where nearly half of the IoM turned traitor.
Coolyo294 wrote: You are a strange, strange little manchicken.
We all know that the space marines are the greatest threat to humanity. They destroyed humanities future with the horus heresy and they are becoming more power hungry.
Err... no. If all the Space Marines turned traitor at once it would be a larger-than-average blow to the Imperium. It wouldn't be anywhere near the scale of the HH where nearly half of the IoM turned traitor.
The Astartes are the only thing keeping the Imperium from falling apart. More and more chapter turn renegade. Not even the First founding chapters are free of turncoats.
I like I also like the Greater Good I love to
I think the are cute
But smell
Jefffar wrote: But for some reason a lot of people want Goliath to win.
Maybe because the people working for GW are actually Imperial Creed followers? Just look at their logo, Imperial Eagle. Nuff said...
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nomotog wrote:Threads about how the tau are totally evil.
I think that this is the real problem with Tau - not evil enough.
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nomotog wrote:
So your saying that the tau are a imperial plot to give the IoM some hope for when they kick the bucket. That would explain why the IoM hasn't actually tried to kill the tau.
There is a theory that Emperor created Warp storm around Tau system so that can evolve in peace. Maybe he knew they will be anti-Chaos one day.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/11/29 18:04:38
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
Space Crusader wrote:
The Astartes are the only thing keeping the Imperium from falling apart. More and more chapter turn renegade. Not even the First founding chapters are free of turncoats.
That's not true. The Astartes are outnumbered hundreds if not thousands or millions to one by every other army in the Galaxy (yes, including Tau) and only fight in the most important and dire of battles. They're not a fully fledged army and never will be; they're a small strike force designed to break seiges and cripple enemies. It would be a blow to lose them, but not the instantly crippling blow it would be to lose the Guard, Navy or even the PDFs.
Coolyo294 wrote: You are a strange, strange little manchicken.
Kroothawk wrote:No, this is Dakka, where two or three posters are allowed to post their Tau genocide fantasy threads and hatred for all Tau players every week. They don't even need to mask their hatred anymore.
People are posting their fantasy genocide Imperium threads to, and we don't say a thing. We defend Imperium, not whine like some posters here.
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
Space Crusader wrote:
The Astartes are the only thing keeping the Imperium from falling apart.
I think that Cadians, Krieg, Armageddonians, Valhallans, Catachans, Mordians, Preatorians, Elysians, Tallarns, Sisters, Mechanicus and Inquisition have something to say to this.
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Kilkrazy wrote:The Imperium has been falling apart for thousands of years.
The rate of decline is low and it must fall from a great height, so it's difficult to notice.
This is true, but not necessarily right.
If Imperium falls there goes the galaxy.
Everyone will be dead: Necrons, Orks, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/29 18:10:15
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
Jefffar wrote:The fluff describes the Imperium as under constant threat of destruction. The same fluff describes the Tau as expanding and gaining power.
Yet I see more threads about wiping out the Tau than I do about wiping out the Imperium.
I agree the Tau are not major threat (at least militarily) as things stand. If the universe does eventually move forward the Tau may move from notable minor power to lesser galactic power, but that will take a while to accomplish.
As it is, they are the WH40K's David, the little guy with faith in something bigger than himself standing up to all the dark, evil giants.
But for some reason a lot of people want Goliath to win.
I don't think it has a whole lot to do with people not liking the Tau or being Imperial fanboys. I think it's more along the lines that logic has been drilled into humanity's collective heads since we decided the Dark Ages were over-rated. Now we have the annoying habit of being able to look at a situation and know, logically, what should happen. Then, when the logical thing doesn't happen (in this case the Imperium snuffing the Tau Empire) our heads explode and we go into mad logic fail rage.
Also, David had the whole Divine Intervention thing going for him. The Tau, since they have no presence in the Warp, are incapable of having a god, which only makes things worse because now they defy logic with no appeal to the inexplicable.
Cant you hear it?! Tadashi needs to be fed! Yes Tadashi the Imperium is awsome! Yes the Tau stink! The Imperium will never fall since its so awsome! So can we all move on now?
I like I also like the Greater Good I love to
I think the are cute
But smell
to
are cute
smell 
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! 
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" 
in your name it shall be done" 
-My typical roll.