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you can win prize money from pro tour , which is uncomperable to stuff one can win in GTs. If someone started necron or GK he had fun playing them for how long , one year and some. And god forbid someone gets a bad codex or the codex misses an updated . Then someone spends the same cash as everyone else , but gets to play something like Wood elfs or DA in 5th.
The cost of switching is lower. Starting with 2-3 ridtides and maybe one Wknight is comperable to playing LoL for years.

and the balance is better. In MTG the cash put in to cards can be easily return one just have to play pro tours and sell stuff in the middle of edition . My MtG lets me not only play it , but adds serious money to table top gaming.

 Quientin wrote:
Well I get my kicks letting him cheat a little and fighting him to a draw so he gets no prize support. It satisfying when I get him when he has an unfair advantage.

Thinking back, there was a guy at ard boys who asked me what game my figs were from. He called a ref over and snitched "his figs are illegal. He said theyer from some game called rogue trader"

To quote Magneto, "Young people."

Makumba wrote:
you can win prize money from pro tour , which is uncomperable to stuff one can win in GTs. If someone started necron or GK he had fun playing them for how long , one year and some. And god forbid someone gets a bad codex or the codex misses an updated . Then someone spends the same cash as everyone else , but gets to play something like Wood elfs or DA in 5th.
The cost of switching is lower. Starting with 2-3 ridtides and maybe one Wknight is comperable to playing LoL for years.

and the balance is better. In MTG the cash put in to cards can be easily return one just have to play pro tours and sell stuff in the middle of edition . My MtG lets me not only play it , but adds serious money to table top gaming.

Not everyone plays Pro-Tour though. A large portion of players don't even do tournaments. The point wasn't what you could do with the cards, after all I can sell my minis just as easily as you can sell your cards, but rather that it uses an intentionally imbalanced system with a shifting meta. It doesn't matter how fast or slow it is because it's still the same kind of approach, there is just an easier time for some games to do it faster than others.

Makumba wrote:
, but gets to play something like Wood elfs or DA in 5th

Gets to play wood elves?But don't they suck?And on MTG:don't you have to buy new cards every edition?A rogue trader space marine can still be used 30 years later.

Two weeks ish after the White Dwarf update came out for daemons, there was a local tournament. #1 spot was being fought between Grey Knights and Daemons (with the old codex still but the white dwarf update pamphlet). Grey Knights got beat hard. Bumped him down to 3rd place since he got no points whatsoever. He got so mad that he threw a chair against the wall screaming "WTF! Im Grey Knights I should win"!

Not so much a moment for me, but a moment I witnessed.

Today I saw two players set up for a 750 point game, CSM vs Black Templar. The CSM player was pretty new to the game, and I wound out helping him out some with rules. And his list was pretty basic.

Then on the Templar side...and remember this is for a 750 point game, his list was:

Chapter Master w/ Relics
Terminator Librarian
9 Honor Guard with relic weapons
5 Assault Termies
Land Raider Crusader
1 Farseer (wut)

When called on it. He got upset and got his temper up because "look at all those guys he has! It's fair!"

 curran12 wrote:
Not so much a moment for me, but a moment I witnessed.

Today I saw two players set up for a 750 point game, CSM vs Black Templar. The CSM player was pretty new to the game, and I wound out helping him out some with rules. And his list was pretty basic.

Then on the Templar side...and remember this is for a 750 point game, his list was:

Chapter Master w/ Relics
Terminator Librarian
9 Honor Guard with relic weapons
5 Assault Termies
Land Raider Crusader
1 Farseer (wut)

When called on it. He got upset and got his temper up because "look at all those guys he has! It's fair!"

I would love to see this guys 2k point list

Deleted.

 Wardragoon wrote:


I would love to see this guys 2k point list

I was nearly talked into a 2k game with him after that, so I would have seen it...

That said, I would have LOVED to fight that Honor Guard blob with my Exorcists...

Makumba wrote:
One of the people on the team seems to be a woman , so they can only be partly right .

Please tell me this is a joke or a misunderstanding on my behalf.

Da krimson barun wrote:

Makumba wrote:
, but gets to play something like Wood elfs or DA in 5th

Gets to play wood elves?But don't they suck?And on MTG:don't you have to buy new cards every edition?A rogue trader space marine can still be used 30 years later.

We can talk about it , if you play the game in 30 years and the army you bought is still top tier through those 30 years. I can play a deck through one block , sell the deck and either start another or start a table top army or something else

Not everyone plays Pro-Tour though. A large portion of players don't even do tournaments. The point wasn't what you could do with the cards, after all I can sell my minis just as easily as you can sell your cards, but rather that it uses an intentionally imbalanced system with a shifting meta. It doesn't matter how fast or slow it is because it's still the same kind of approach, there is just an easier time for some games to do it faster than others.

People that play the game here do , I don't think there are any that buy decks just to play against friends . That would be a waste of money . Or do you mean those people that buy random boosters or some starter decks and play with just that ? Those don't play tournaments , but the cash they invest in to the game is uncomperable to what w40k costs. Even if he buy 60 boosters[2 each month] and 6 starter decks it would be nothing compering to a w40k or WFB army.

Please tell me this is a joke or a misunderstanding on my behalf.

yeah forgot it is more local thing . The god right is what we call conservative parties . women are left ,because those that do vote do it for socialists. At least in the cities.

Makumba wrote:
Well there is a small difference in buying a new LoL champion or power lvling a new class in wow , compering to being forced to either rebuild or abandon and buy a new army for w40k . Up till codex tau playin IG was fun , post tau and eldar , it doesn't even make sense , because nothing works against them . mecha doesn't , aegis blob builds don't , they kill flyers faster the IG can bring them on the board . So the only option is either to buy a tau/eldar army or buy demons , one can't just add a unit or two to make the army tick again . It clearly shows in tournament placments of IG or SW or BAs. they are at the bottom and if they were fixable through own codex or through ally people would be playing those options and placing higher .

i was goign to say something like this, but didn't, but now it's been mentioned...

when you have certain imbalances in certain directions, and the imbalances affect the entire race, not just one character, it's pretty difficult to alter your strategy. Take for instance that tyranids, shy of taking old FW rules and being able to find a harradin, don't actually have any fliers. not a huge deal, but then if you say, throw them against dark eldar, who can just zoom aroudn the map with impunity, peeing poison all over the monstrous creatures, well, it's going to be a little hard for the tyranids to stand a fair chance.

Imbalance is good, but not where it creates a clear disadvantage, especially one where you can't take any allies to cover the deficiencies.

 curran12 wrote:
Not so much a moment for me, but a moment I witnessed.

Today I saw two players set up for a 750 point game, CSM vs Black Templar. The CSM player was pretty new to the game, and I wound out helping him out some with rules. And his list was pretty basic.

Then on the Templar side...and remember this is for a 750 point game, his list was:

Chapter Master w/ Relics
Terminator Librarian
9 Honor Guard with relic weapons
5 Assault Termies
Land Raider Crusader
1 Farseer (wut)

When called on it. He got upset and got his temper up because "look at all those guys he has! It's fair!"

hahahaah

Fully agree + the time that passes between one patch another is nothing compering to let say a DE player waiting for 11 years for a new codex or Wood Elf player waiting for two editions or even a DA player waiting for a whole edition for a good dex , although one has to say that this time without Johnsons involvment their codex is nice.

Makumba wrote:

Not everyone plays Pro-Tour though. A large portion of players don't even do tournaments. The point wasn't what you could do with the cards, after all I can sell my minis just as easily as you can sell your cards, but rather that it uses an intentionally imbalanced system with a shifting meta. It doesn't matter how fast or slow it is because it's still the same kind of approach, there is just an easier time for some games to do it faster than others.

People that play the game here do , I don't think there are any that buy decks just to play against friends . That would be a waste of money . Or do you mean those people that buy random boosters or some starter decks and play with just that ? Those don't play tournaments , but the cash they invest in to the game is uncomperable to what w40k costs. Even if he buy 60 boosters[2 each month] and 6 starter decks it would be nothing compering to a w40k or WFB army.

On the flip-side the models tend to have a longer lifespan without falling out of usage while MtG requires more constant upkeep in general.

It really is a wash on which is more expensive over the long run, and I never want to get into the context of which really is worse on your wallet, the point remains that both use a similiar design philosophy and have different rates at which that affects play due to their mediums.

And I played MtG casually with just my friends in high school. The 8th Ed Core Net Decks are what got me to stop playing (everyone was running Darksteel Colossus and Darksteel Forge, I was running a Myr deck).

Makumba wrote:
Fully agree + the time that passes between one patch another is nothing compering to let say a DE player waiting for 11 years for a new codex or Wood Elf player waiting for two editions or even a DA player waiting for a whole edition for a good dex , although one has to say that this time without Johnsons involvment their codex is nice.

And some of us DA were crazy enough to start an army when it was bad.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Makumba wrote:

Not everyone plays Pro-Tour though. A large portion of players don't even do tournaments. The point wasn't what you could do with the cards, after all I can sell my minis just as easily as you can sell your cards, but rather that it uses an intentionally imbalanced system with a shifting meta. It doesn't matter how fast or slow it is because it's still the same kind of approach, there is just an easier time for some games to do it faster than others.

People that play the game here do , I don't think there are any that buy decks just to play against friends . That would be a waste of money . Or do you mean those people that buy random boosters or some starter decks and play with just that ? Those don't play tournaments , but the cash they invest in to the game is uncomperable to what w40k costs. Even if he buy 60 boosters[2 each month] and 6 starter decks it would be nothing compering to a w40k or WFB army.

On the flip-side the models tend to have a longer lifespan without falling out of usage while MtG requires more constant upkeep in general.

It really is a wash on which is more expensive over the long run, and I never want to get into the context of which really is worse on your wallet, the point remains that both use a similiar design philosophy and have different rates at which that affects play due to their mediums.

And I played MtG casually with just my friends in high school. The 8th Ed Core Net Decks are what got me to stop playing (everyone was running Darksteel Colossus and Darksteel Forge, I was running a Myr deck).

It depends, modern decks last quite a long time.

back too the tread ~

i always love it when people try to bring the fluff into the rules of the game. The whole "Space marines are epic they cant lose!" is a big one. Wanna play that game? OK, every ork you kill explodes in a puff of spores and if you dont raze the planet with fire youre going to have MORE orks down your throat next turn.

Orks dont lose in the fluff, unless you eliminate the planet surface or use something almost as drastic (yet expensive). Orks dont have anything like that in the actual game because good grief that would be broken lol.

Thankfully *knock on wood* ive never had anyone rage and start throwing stuff. Worst ive seen was actually done by me, and it was kinda warrented since i literally went 4 turns of NOTHING but 1s and 2s on every dice i rolled, so i kinda got heated (but thankfully i didnt do anything to cause any damage and my friends knew im not normally like that lol). This included a turn 1 snake eyes roll on a SAG btw lol.

 ClockworkZion wrote:


On the flip-side the models tend to have a longer lifespan without falling out of usage while MtG requires more constant upkeep in general.

I see what you did there.

On the flip-side the models tend to have a longer lifespan without falling out of usage while MtG requires more constant upkeep in general.

I don't know people that played crow or draigo wing or scarabs farms were left with a ton of models that may still be legal , but make a crappy list. And costs hit again , power rares cost the same every deck . They sometimes get errated in to death , but losing even 150$ in 4 cards is uncomperable to playing W40K where GW not only rises the points cap every edition , but also whole armies have to be redone . Even people who already have armies , still are forceced to buy 2-3 serpents 1-2knights or 2-3 riptides , 2-3 helldrakes.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i always love it when people try to bring the fluff into the rules of the game. The whole "Space marines are epic they cant lose!" is a big one. Wanna play that game? OK, every ork you kill explodes in a puff of spores and if you dont raze the planet with fire youre going to have MORE orks down your throat next turn.

Orks dont lose in the fluff, unless you eliminate the planet surface or use something almost as drastic (yet expensive). Orks dont have anything like that in the actual game because good grief that would be broken lol.

Thankfully *knock on wood* ive never had anyone rage and start throwing stuff. Worst ive seen was actually done by me, and it was kinda warrented since i literally went 4 turns of NOTHING but 1s and 2s on every dice i rolled, so i kinda got heated (but thankfully i didnt do anything to cause any damage and my friends knew im not normally like that lol). This included a turn 1 snake eyes roll on a SAG btw lol.

Actually Orks never lose. If they win, they win. If they "lose" they died fighting and it doesn't count.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i always love it when people try to bring the fluff into the rules of the game. The whole "Space marines are epic they cant lose!" is a big one. Wanna play that game? OK, every ork you kill explodes in a puff of spores and if you dont raze the planet with fire youre going to have MORE orks down your throat next turn.

Orks dont lose in the fluff, unless you eliminate the planet surface or use something almost as drastic (yet expensive). Orks dont have anything like that in the actual game because good grief that would be broken lol.

Thankfully *knock on wood* ive never had anyone rage and start throwing stuff. Worst ive seen was actually done by me, and it was kinda warrented since i literally went 4 turns of NOTHING but 1s and 2s on every dice i rolled, so i kinda got heated (but thankfully i didnt do anything to cause any damage and my friends knew im not normally like that lol). This included a turn 1 snake eyes roll on a SAG btw lol.

Actually Orks never lose. If they win, they win. If they "lose" they died fighting and it doesn't count.

And if they fall back they can allways come back for another go, so that doesn't count either.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i always love it when people try to bring the fluff into the rules of the game. The whole "Space marines are epic they cant lose!" is a big one. Wanna play that game? OK, every ork you kill explodes in a puff of spores and if you dont raze the planet with fire youre going to have MORE orks down your throat next turn.

Orks dont lose in the fluff, unless you eliminate the planet surface or use something almost as drastic (yet expensive). Orks dont have anything like that in the actual game because good grief that would be broken lol.

Standard flamers work well, see Valhalla and that other planet in Cain book, Graia I think.

Just noticed I haven't contributed to this one...

Back when I was in school we had plenty of newer players in the school club. The typical pre-teen who makes an army based on the coolest models and not on the actual army list. It was hard to explain the rules to them saying what they can and can't use without looking like a dick. I think the worst player I've had though was a year or so ago. He wasn't exactly immature, but he was just so annoying. I played one game with him and I vowed never to play afterwards.

It was 1.5K, my new CSM vs his Orks. I set up first, and seeing as he's got so many models to deploy I decide to go for a smoke, seeing as he's going to be a while, of which he says it's fine and starts unpacking his stuff. I return, there's a pile of Boys in the corner while he's buggered off to watch another game. After a bit of persuasion we eventualy get going but every 2-3 mins or so he would just get distracted and wander off, asking for input on rules discussions which had nothing to do at all with the game at hand, such as the "Black Mace and Smash" discussion. Useless since I wasn't using either a DP or the BM.

Had another guy recently. He seemed an ok chap, but after a couple of turns he turned out to be such a cocky git, with such an aloof personality. Since this was one of my first games in 6th, I was still getting to hand with some of the changes. A couple of minor things were asked like "So as it's my Initiative step, I now do a pile in move?", each one was met with an answer like "Duh, of course you do". The guy had taken a very competitive Necron list consisting of 3 Annihilation Barges, Zandrek, Obyron and a deathstar of 10 Sword/Board Lychguard/Royal Court unit. My list wasn't casual, but nowhere near as competitive as this guy. I eventually won, discovering afterwards that his overall tactic of using Obyron to teleport away holding the Relic was an illegal move. His overall personality was equally as annoying as his level of competitveness. Couple of weeks later he's boasting about the new Necron units in IA:12. I ask for a quick glance as the others in the group had, request was met with a rolling of the eyes and a "Well if you must..." style of response.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i always love it when people try to bring the fluff into the rules of the game. The whole "Space marines are epic they cant lose!" is a big one. Wanna play that game? OK, every ork you kill explodes in a puff of spores and if you dont raze the planet with fire youre going to have MORE orks down your throat next turn.

Orks dont lose in the fluff, unless you eliminate the planet surface or use something almost as drastic (yet expensive). Orks dont have anything like that in the actual game because good grief that would be broken lol.

Standard flamers work well, see Valhalla and that other planet in Cain book, Graia I think.

No, the next batch of orks to be 'hatched' are just a bit more tanned....

Every once in a while I play the fluff version of my IG army that is mechanized veterans armed with shotguns with weapons teams with autocannons and heavy flamers. All in Chimeras of course. Not a great build, as autocannon fire pinks of of space marine armor.

Anwyas happend to being playing a day when this 20ish year old guy had just for the first time brought in his new nid army that be bought speifically because nids were supposed to be so invincible in the fluff. Well you can probably see where this is going.

My auto cannons and heavy flamers freaking ate him alive. He threw the biggest hissy fit in the world about how my army was so cheesy . He never did play me again.

 Bobthehero wrote:

Standard flamers work well, see Valhalla and that other planet in Cain book, Graia I think.

It was ice world Nusquam Fundumentibus in the vicinity of its underground capital Hive, Primadelving


Though they also encountered Orks in the ice world Simia Orichalcae

Haven't played a really immature player in a long time, but I did recently play a bit of an immature dude recently.

Before we started he told me he swore off playing against my army, Chaos Daemons, because of the warp storm table. On the first turn the warp storm table killed 6 of his models across the board, nothing important though. On the 4th turn it killed 7 of my plaguebearers. The entire 4 turns of the game (I gave up) he complained about how I wiped out half his army, and my army was OP.

He was playing Eldar transport spam, and I threw in the towel because I was pretty much tabled. Post game comments?
"No offense to you, but you play a broken army, and I will never play against it again."

What the feth? Well here is hoping to meet him in a tournament and watch him refuse to play.

I recently played a guy who questioned whether my Space marines could fire rapid fire if they had moved normally into rapid fire range...

He then proceeded to dispute that pretty much anything I wanted to shoot with could see his units, arguing some of my own guys were in the way.

To top it all off he had a totally unpained army(which to my surprise I found quite annoying).

Eventually I just figured this aint worth it. Let this guy have his fun. At the end of turn 2 I got lucky and my phone got a text msg. I just said I had to go somewhere urgently and packed up.

To sum up. If it gets to a point where you are not enjoying playing with your opponent and you are still early in the game. Its probably only going to get more painful as the game wears on. Better to pull the plug and just bail out. Some people are just not worth it.