W40k : Imperial Guard 6th ed codex for early 2014 (topic reloaded)

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**Zengu**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
Well that's the problem with the whole doctrine thing, as well as the variety of regiments.

GW almost outright forbids conversions at this point. They still allow conversions to a degree, but they'll only showcase 100% GW parts, which leaves you with half fantasy empire IG, space marine scout kitbash IG, Tau kitbash IG, and... that's about it.

I have a feeling for us to see any chance on a return of doctrines and the "limitless types of regiments" being represented in rules, GW would have to relax it's stance on 3rd party bits. Many of the most iconic regiments can not be made any other way, and as we saw with the chapterhouse ordeal, GW would rather pull it's own teeth out than allow bitz companies to market conversion parts.

As much as I hate to say it, I would almost bet money that the next codex will focus even more heavily on Cadians (and maybe Catachans) than the last one. There will undoubtedly be mentions to the ranges covered by Forgeworld as well, but that will be about it.

If they allow doctrines back in, people would be expected to represent their "doctrines" through conversions. Even simple ones like allowing your regiment to take camo cloaks standard (to represent Tanith) or allowing all guardsmen to swap out las rifles for CCW/Pistol would require massive amounts of conversions that GW kits just don't provide. And rather than release bits kits or add the necessary parts, GW will probably just stay with what they already make, so that 3rd party companies can't get increased business. After all, if they don't make a camo cloak part, that money is just going to a "competitor" that can make the bit instead.

GW never lets us have nice things

**Swastakowey**

Its a problem that effects many armies though, I mean if you like tall space marines Scibor is amazing, if you like fancy orks then Kromlech is great. But it hurts Guard the most because there are so many historical, sci fi and modern models that are great for 40k.

I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.

**AllSeeingSkink**

Swastakowey wrote:
I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.

Never going to happen though.

Realistically, GW aren't going to be making rules that encourage 3rd party miniatures and bits. Getting rid of metal means they can't do what they did back in the day and have models for half a dozen different IG flavours, and they sure as hell aren't going to be doing anything that makes people want to buy models from anywhere other than themselves.

**Swastakowey**

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.
Never going to happen though.

Realistically, GW aren't going to be making rules that encourage 3rd party miniatures and bits. Getting rid of metal means they can't do what they did back in the day and have models for half a dozen different IG flavours, and they sure as hell aren't going to be doing anything that makes people want to buy models from anywhere other than themselves.

All it would take are a few mini boxes with torsos and heads or arms etc and bam, the world will be full of awesome guard and GW wont have to worry as much for 3rd party models.

**Miguelsan**

As above it will never happen.

Most IG players already have their armies and the new blood lack the funds to make a pure IG at current prices.

So "allowing" non-GW bits in their (Game)Days and (non)official tournaments without making new cool kits for IG would end up in scant additional money for GW and an increase in revenues for all the 3rd party manufacturers.

Probably GW will repackage the old Cadian sprues for the next codex and call it a day.

M.

**Kirasu**

Swastakowey wrote:
Its a problem that effects many armies though, I mean if you like tall space marines Scibor is amazing, if you like fancy orks then Kromlech is great. But it hurts Guard the most because there are so many historical, sci fi and modern models that are great for 40k.

I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.

Why would anyone enforce this rule tho? GW doesn't provide support, nor do they provide anything else for organized play. There is absolutely no reason to impose any restrictions on players.

**Swastakowey**

Miguelsan wrote:
As above it will never happen.

Most IG players already have their armies and the new blood lack the funds to make a pure IG at current prices.

So "allowing" non-GW bits in their (Game)Days and (non)official tournaments without making new cool kits for IG would end up in scant additional money for GW and an increase in revenues for all the 3rd party manufacturers.

Probably GW will repackage the old Cadian sprues for the next codex and call it a day.

M.

Most players had IG armies when they moved on to plastic Cadians and catachans, but like all new models they began to phase out the old models and so on, except with this set up people in theory will be buying more than just the replacement model. It would be an add on sale.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kirasu wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
Its a problem that effects many armies though, I mean if you like tall space marines Scibor is amazing, if you like fancy orks then Kromlech is great. But it hurts Guard the most because there are so many historical, sci fi and modern models that are great for 40k.

I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.

Why would anyone enforce this rule tho? GW doesn't provide support, nor do they provide anything else for organized play. There is absolutely no reason to impose any restrictions on players.

I did mean in GW stores. I have seen WW1 aircraft used in fantasy before at a tournament here so its pretty relaxed in that setting. But in GW stores apparently they kick you out.

**BunkerBob**

Kirasu wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
Its a problem that effects many armies though, I mean if you like tall space marines Scibor is amazing, if you like fancy orks then Kromlech is great. But it hurts Guard the most because there are so many historical, sci fi and modern models that are great for 40k.

I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.

Why would anyone enforce this rule tho? GW doesn't provide support, nor do they provide anything else for organized play. There is absolutely no reason to impose any restrictions on players.

I haven't played in a tournament yet that doesn't allow at least 75% GW model. I believe its mostly so tourney hosts will actually have people go to the tourney at this point honestly.

**Therion**

Kirasu wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
Its a problem that effects many armies though, I mean if you like tall space marines Scibor is amazing, if you like fancy orks then Kromlech is great. But it hurts Guard the most because there are so many historical, sci fi and modern models that are great for 40k.

I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.

Why would anyone enforce this rule tho? GW doesn't provide support, nor do they provide anything else for organized play. There is absolutely no reason to impose any restrictions on players.

It's a paradox. On one hand nearly everyone who play GW games acknowledge the fact that GW gives you no support regarding tournaments and gaming events, treats you like you're their enemy, keeps raising prices while never giving discounts, attacks in paranoid ways against third party producers and its own retailers and in general tries to make shopping for the customers as difficult as possible, doesn't advertise or beta test, writes imbalanced and incoherent rules, and in general is subject to ridicule in almost every way a company can be. On the other hand the gamers are completely incapable of agreeing with eachother about anything, for example whether it's regarding house ruling the game in order to fix it, or using models from other companies in games of 40K, so they just decide to not do anything at all regarding their criticisms and instead just buy overpriced GW products and play according to the garbage rules that would be easily fixable.

**Kirasu**

Swastakowey wrote:

I did mean in GW stores. I have seen WW1 aircraft used in fantasy before at a tournament here so its pretty relaxed in that setting. But in GW stores apparently they kick you out.

I didn't see where you were from as GW stores actually mean something outside the USA, I just assume in the states no one ever means GW stores (since they're a pretty big joke due to lack of space and 1 employee).

**Swastakowey**

Kirasu wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:

I did mean in GW stores. I have seen WW1 aircraft used in fantasy before at a tournament here so its pretty relaxed in that setting. But in GW stores apparently they kick you out.

I didn't see where you were from as GW stores actually mean something outside the USA, I just assume in the states no one ever means GW stores (since they're a pretty big joke due to lack of space and 1 employee).

I have been in a GW store 3 times, once to buy my first army (dont get me started on that experience) and once to help a friend against an onslaught of salesmen and once to give it a third chance.

I happily stick to my gaming group where anything goes and I can have a fair amount of fun despite any problems with the product. But the kids at my gaming group, well GW has indoctrinated them, and it will take many years to get them into a fully functional state.

**Miguelsan**

Swastakowey wrote:
Miguelsan wrote:
As above it will never happen.

Most IG players already have their armies and the new blood lack the funds to make a pure IG at current prices.

So "allowing" non-GW bits in their (Game)Days and (non)official tournaments without making new cool kits for IG would end up in scant additional money for GW and an increase in revenues for all the 3rd party manufacturers.

Probably GW will repackage the old Cadian sprues for the next codex and call it a day.

M.

Most players had IG armies when they moved on to plastic Cadians and catachans, but like all new models they began to phase out the old models and so on, except with this set up people in theory will be buying more than just the replacement model. It would be an add on sale.

In an ideal world for GW you would be right but the key point against your argument is that at current prices a new GW stormtrooper kit would be 29$ for 10 at the very least, unless that box is incredibly good I can go and buy Dreamforge Stormtroopers at 42$ for 20 and that's just an example. Simply there are many more alternatives on the market than 20 years ago when GW phased out all the metal OG in favor of the Cadian and Catachan plastics.

Everytime I think about buying GW I ask myself, what added value does GW give me that I can't get by using third party stuff? The answer is the reason why in the last 2/3 years the only miniatures I got from GW have been the Eldar flier and Illic. So unless GW changes in a radical way I don't see myself buying new GW IG kits or bits (Well perhaps another HWT box if they don't screw up with the prices).

M.

**Swastakowey**

I think its the same with many players now days, Especially among older gamers who know better (most kids cant think outside of GW), but If they showed they where putting in effort to make the gaming experience better wouldnt this make you more likely to buy it?

My GW and FW account has had no transactions in a long time because it doesnt seem like they want to do more than the bare minimum. I mean why dont my guardsmen come with all the special weapons? You cant even buy them seperately! things like that make it difficult to buy from GW but I dont see a change coming, so I just post my hopes here and see how it goes.

**Azreal13**

Swastakowey wrote:

I happily stick to my gaming group where anything goes and I can have a fair amount of fun despite any problems with the product. But the kids at my gaming group, well GW has indoctrinated them, and it will take many years to get them into a fully functional state.

I hear this.

Had a conversation about GW pricing with one of the younger (college age) kids at my club once.

He said he didn't mind the prices, as he only spent his 'spare' money on GW product, and as he was spending it anyway, it didn't matter.

He literally could not grasp my points that he could a) spend less on GW for the same amount of product and have cash to spend on other things or b) spend the same amount and get more stuff if the prices were a bit more reasonable.

He's not a stupid kid either, but yeesh has he downed some Koolaid.

**BaronIveagh**

streetsamurai wrote:
I think that the problems are also the player. It's really easy to come with an unique looking regiment, yet few persons do it.

Hell, even showing up with regular variants is unusual anymore. I mean, other than mine, when was the last time anyone saw a all Steel Legion IG army?

**Miguelsan**

Shamefull plug of my mixed IG army.

BTW those old Warzone soldiers are from the plastic Cadian era too and cost about 20€ for 80. Need to get my butt out of the internets and paint more stuff.

M.

**Swastakowey**

azreal13 wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:

I happily stick to my gaming group where anything goes and I can have a fair amount of fun despite any problems with the product. But the kids at my gaming group, well GW has indoctrinated them, and it will take many years to get them into a fully functional state.

I hear this.

Had a conversation about GW pricing with one of the younger (college age) kids at my club once.

He said he didn't mind the prices, as he only spent his 'spare' money on GW product, and as he was spending it anyway, it didn't matter.

He literally could not grasp my points that he could a) spend less on GW for the same amount of product and have cash to spend on other things or b) spend the same amount and get more stuff if the prices were a bit more reasonable.

He's not a stupid kid either, but yeesh has he downed some Koolaid.

Its an epidemic of massed proportions, a cult which keeps your eyes shut to the wonders of gaming. Like they say, nobody joins a cult. This kid may be smart but he is being lead astray. My gaming days where once clouded black by GW cult teachings, but alas my eyes are opened and I can enjoy the hobby and all its worth.

And yea some people dont even know what those collectors guard look like. Very sad indead. We need to get a thread together where people can show off their non standard cadian armies so people can see whats really out there.

**BunkerBob**

BaronIveagh wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
I think that the problems are also the player. It's really easy to come with an unique looking regiment, yet few persons do it.

Hell, even showing up with regular variants is unusual anymore. I mean, other than mine, when was the last time anyone saw a all Steel Legion IG army?

That really comes down to the fact that most special orders could easily take up to a year to actually get in your hands. I waited so long for 4 boxes of Vostroyans by the time it finally reached me I had sold all of my other Vostroyans months earlier (Seriously, waiting 10 months for 45 bits of metal is bonkers) then I sold those again at retail price and bought warmachine mercenaries.

The limited runs of special metal is probably a huge turn off to a lot of people when they see that special order only marker on their website.

**Kanluwen**

BaronIveagh wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
I think that the problems are also the player. It's really easy to come with an unique looking regiment, yet few persons do it.

Hell, even showing up with regular variants is unusual anymore. I mean, other than mine, when was the last time anyone saw a all Steel Legion IG army?

Never. Even when they were regular stock items they were still expensive compared to the Catachans and then later the plastic Cadians.

**H.B.M.C.**

Therion wrote:
It's a paradox. On one hand nearly everyone who play GW games acknowledge the fact that GW gives you no support regarding tournaments and gaming events, treats you like you're their enemy, keeps raising prices while never giving discounts, attacks in paranoid ways against third party producers and its own retailers and in general tries to make shopping for the customers as difficult as possible, doesn't advertise or beta test, writes imbalanced and incoherent rules, and in general is subject to ridicule in almost every way a company can be. On the other hand the gamers are completely incapable of agreeing with eachother about anything, for example whether it's regarding house ruling the game in order to fix it, or using models from other companies in games of 40K, so they just decide to not do anything at all regarding their criticisms and instead just buy overpriced GW products and play according to the garbage rules that would be easily fixable.

I agree.

Therion wrote:
It's a paradox. On one hand nearly everyone who play GW games acknowledge the fact that GW gives you no support regarding tournaments and gaming events, treats you like you're their enemy, keeps raising prices while never giving discounts, attacks in paranoid ways against third party producers and its own retailers and in general tries to make shopping for the customers as difficult as possible, doesn't advertise or beta test, writes imbalanced and incoherent rules, and in general is subject to ridicule in almost every way a company can be. On the other hand the gamers are completely incapable of agreeing with eachother about anything, for example whether it's regarding house ruling the game in order to fix it, or using models from other companies in games of 40K, so they just decide to not do anything at all regarding their criticisms and instead just buy overpriced GW products and play according to the garbage rules that would be easily fixable.

I disagree.

BaronIveagh wrote:
Hell, even showing up with regular variants is unusual anymore. I mean, other than mine, when was the last time anyone saw a all Steel Legion IG army?

I got some recent interesting reactions to my metal Cadians, let alone any Mordian or Tallarn stuff that I own.

**MrMoustaffa**

Kirasu wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
Its a problem that effects many armies though, I mean if you like tall space marines Scibor is amazing, if you like fancy orks then Kromlech is great. But it hurts Guard the most because there are so many historical, sci fi and modern models that are great for 40k.

I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.

Why would anyone enforce this rule tho? GW doesn't provide support, nor do they provide anything else for organized play. There is absolutely no reason to impose any restrictions on players.

Because very few outside of GW stores (to my knowledge) support that way of thinking.

The problem is, it doesn't matter if the entire community was cool with substituting units with paper slips, GW wants people buying its models (which is understandable)

Think about it from their point of view as a business. Why make rules to encourage people taking armies of models that you don't make? You make far less money than if you imply that only your models will work for the ruleset. Why bother making rules for Vostroyans, Valhallans, Steel Legion, Mordians, Tanith, and others, if the vast majority of the people that would use them are going to buy their models from somewhere else?

So unless they thought that making a new regiment or two as kits is a good idea, we'll probably be kept with Catachan and Cadian centric rules. It would not surprise me however if we end up getting a new regiment made in plastic to replace the aging Catachans. It would only take 3 box sets to make a new regiment, since you just need an infantry squad, Heavy weapon squad, and a Command Squad, everything else could be kept as is. If they did that, it allows them to update their look, introduce a new regiment or bring back an old one, and would encourage old and new players alike to buy more models.

I think it's safe to say that if any of the old metal regiments got a set of plastic kits in this new release, they would sell very well amongst new and old players alike.

**H.B.M.C.**

Swastakowey wrote:
My gaming days where once clouded black by GW cult teachings, but alas my eyes are opened and I can enjoy the hobby and all its worth.

As were mine, for a very long time. Even after posting here for a long time I never really looked outside of 40K (with the exception of BattleTech, as there's no cross-over there) and only started to with the advent of the 40K RPG. Once the shroud was removed the flood gates open (to both mix and torture the metaphor!), and now I've got stuff from all over the place. Even built an entire army (my AdMech force) out of mostly non-GW minis.

Quite liberating.

MrMoustaffa wrote:
I think it's safe to say that if any of the old metal regiments got a set of plastic kits in this new release, they would sell very well amongst new and old players alike.

I'd debate that as a "maybe" rather than a definite. As awful as the plastic Catachans are, they still look like their superior metal counterparts. The Cadians on the other hand? Well, scale issues aside the plastic Cadians just don't match the metal Cadians other than superficially, enough that mixing the regiments looks awkward. If they released plastic Tallarns or Mordians that differet from the original metals to the same degree as Cadians there might be an incentive to buy them, but not to mix in with existing models.

Or, alternatively, I'm just OCD/anal retentive and refuse to mix plastic and metal Cadians.

@ me.

**Swastakowey**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
My gaming days where once clouded black by GW cult teachings, but alas my eyes are opened and I can enjoy the hobby and all its worth.

As were mine, for a very long time. Even after posting here for a long time I never really looked outside of 40K (with the exception of BattleTech, as there's no cross-over there) and only started to with the advent of the 40K RPG. Once the shroud was removed the flood gates open (to both mix and torture the metaphor!), and now I've got stuff from all over the place. Even built an entire army (my AdMech force) out of mostly non-GW minis.

Quite liberating.

Mine started when I purchased bulk lots of trademe, (NZ ebay) and some had 3rd party models that blew me away, from then on i slowly converted. The guy who sold me praetorians told me where to find victoria miniatures and from then on I was fully converted.

**Miguelsan**

I would totally buy a Valhallan/Steel legion HWT kit. So I'm guessing GW will not put one on sale

M.

**insaniak**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
It would not surprise me however if we end up getting a new regiment made in plastic to replace the aging Catachans. It would only take 3 box sets to make a new regiment, since you just need an infantry squad, Heavy weapon squad, and a Command Squad, everything else could be kept as is. If they did that, it allows them to update their look, introduce a new regiment or bring back an old one, and would encourage old and new players alike to buy more models. .

Add to that that so long as they keep the different kits compatible with one another (which isn't really the case now, due to the Catachan arms being ridiculously massive and the belts being on the opposite part on Cadians vs Catachan torso/leg sets) then you get extra customisation by being able to mix-and-match for your own regiment.

Heck, if they wanted to great really carried away, the Cadian kit could easily be expanded to include Greatcoat legs and a variant helmet or cap. A new Catachan box could include camo cloaks and regular fatigue shirts to swap out for the singlets. Heads with bush hats would be nice too...

**Swastakowey**

insaniak wrote:
MrMoustaffa wrote:
It would not surprise me however if we end up getting a new regiment made in plastic to replace the aging Catachans. It would only take 3 box sets to make a new regiment, since you just need an infantry squad, Heavy weapon squad, and a Command Squad, everything else could be kept as is. If they did that, it allows them to update their look, introduce a new regiment or bring back an old one, and would encourage old and new players alike to buy more models. .

Add to that that so long as they keep the different kits compatible with one another (which isn't really the case now, due to the Catachan arms being ridiculously massive and the belts being on the opposite part on Cadians vs Catachan torso/leg sets) then you get extra customisation by being able to mix-and-match for your own regiment.

Heck, if they wanted to great really carried away, the Cadian kit could easily be expanded to include Greatcoat legs and a variant helmet or cap. A new Catachan box could include camo cloaks and regular fatigue shirts to swap out for the singlets. Heads with bush hats would be nice too...

Thats something i brought up earlier, if they sold packs of different heads and torsos and arms and so on then you could buy a box of cadians, then but the "upgrade bits" and then mix and match from there.

**AllSeeingSkink**

I don't really see them bringing out that many new plastics. I think the most we can expect is a few new kits: stormtroopers, ogryns, flyer, maybe a new big tank or walker.

There's a lot of old tired models in other armeis that haven't been updated for ages, so I don't see them touching Cadians or Catachans.

They could do head/torso upgrades for cadians to make them other things, but really I don't see that happening. There's only a few IG flavours that would actually suit the Cadian legs and arms, the rest would need new pretty much an entire redesign of the cadian line up which I just don't think is realistic.

**Vash108**

These discussions always make them rumor threads fun to read. I always look forward to the next release just for these.

**BrookM**

What does surprise me with the new weekly release schedule is that the codex / army book doesn't hit retail until the second week in. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but the first week you just get mini releases and the relevant book doesn't hit until a week later, why GW?

**Swastakowey**

BrookM wrote:
What does surprise me with the new weekly release schedule is that the codex / army book doesn't hit retail until the second week in. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but the first week you just get mini releases and the relevant book doesn't hit until a week later, why GW?

I know, most people wont be buying any models and just the codex anyways lol