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When you try that Lith list, let us know how it goes!

No doubt. I'm pretty excited about how it's come together.

Speaking of trying things out, has anyone heard anything lately from Dakka's patron saint of Necrons? (jy2)
I'd be interested to see what the pros think the 'Crons new strengths are in 7th and how they'll be adjusting their competitive lists to meet the meta.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Barges, Barges, and more Barges. And Solar Pulses. And Barges. That's my thoughts on 7th so far (oh, and the Lith, because he likes hanging out with Barges)!

Huh? He's a HS slot that's vastly inferior to other picks as in AB and Pylons...

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Barges, Barges, and more Barges. And Solar Pulses. And Barges. That's my thoughts on 7th so far (oh, and the Lith, because he likes hanging out with Barges)!


Huh? He's a HS slot that's vastly inferior to other picks as in AB and Pylons...

If you run dual CAD (combined arms detatchment), you can run up to 6 HS. Unless you were thinking of running 4+ AB's then this should give you the slots you want.

Even if you played wih dual CAD, why would you use the slot and the points for a monolith?

Post 2014/06/13 15:11:43 Subject: Necrons in 7th
Even if you played wih dual CAD, why would you use the slot and the points for a monolith?

The idea was to use the Mono for LOS blocking and perhaps hiding spiders /w fab claws there to repair the GA's and Mono as they took hits.

Personally, i'd only consider taking a Mono in a not-so-friendly list if i was going to use it to teleport a trans-c'tan, trans. slide 18" across w/e i wanted to hit with Str. D and dual flame anything left with MORE str. D.

EDITED:for clafiry

Remember you can't immediately go for the D-slide (that sounds dirty) as you have already "moved" when using Dimensional Corridor. Not to mention you are likely out of range due to the monolith's huge size and you not wanting to risk a DS fail.

 skoffs wrote:
Speaking of trying things out, has anyone heard anything lately from Dakka's patron saint of Necrons? (jy2)
I'd be interested to see what the pros think the 'Crons new strengths are in 7th and how they'll be adjusting their competitive lists to meet the meta.

Did I hear someone call my name?

Let me paraphrase what I said in one of my battle reports:

Let me tell you the secret to 7th Edition. There are 2 things that you really need to be successful in 7th.

1. Objective Secured troops. The more the better. You either protect them in a transport of some sort, or you take lots of them. Otherwise, they will die. Best case scenario is you take lots of them....and you protect them in transports.

2. Mobile Scoring. Static armies are a thing of the past. To compete with the newer armies, you need mobility and you need lots of it. There's no point in having a lot of scoring if they will never reach the farther objectives. Also, they need to be able to get away from enemy assault units, at least to a certain degree. That's why you need some mobility with your scoring units. Not every scoring unit needs to be highly mobile, but a substantial part of your army does. The best armies, IMO, are the ones where almost every unit is mobile. And the best of the best armies are where all the Objective Secured troops are highly mobile.

Currently in 7th, you need OS scoring and you need mobility. Either troops in Necron flyers or in Ghost Arks. A mix of the 2 is fine as well. I normally run 4 troops in flyers, but now I think I am going to try out 2-3 flyers and 1-2 GA.

They really don't need to do much adjusting. The 6E competitive builds actually got better in 7E. The only thing to watch out for is that high-AV will be somewhat more prevalent. That means get at least 2 warscythes in each army or run a doom scythe to deal with AV14. Scarab-farm will work as well as the meta is shifting back towards MSU-mech.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Greggy wrote:
Hey guys, I've seen a lot of talk about how awesome Kutlakh is now on a CCB. But what makes him more awesome then say a kitted up overlord? (asking because I don't have access to the Imperial Armour book atm having lent it out to a mate)

He's not.

He's good against MC's with his ability to Insta-kill them. However, the meta is shifting back towards MSU-mech and Kutlakh isn't very good against vehicles. You're going to be finding him less and less useful in competitive play as players bring more and more tanks. I'd rather have an Overlord with warscythe on a CCB instead.

Fragile wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

I personally think Ancanthrites are stronger than Wraiths, especially with the advent of more people taking vehicles.

Well you can spend 5 points for a ranged shot and an additional attack on the Wraiths again.

Wasn't it FAQ'd previously that you don't get the +1A? Arguing that the gun gives them +1A sounds kinda gamey to me.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Has there been any discussion about Trazyn's ability counting as "super scoring?" Haven't seen that mentioned anywhere, FAQ or otherwise, but I think it would be the logical adaptation.

He's not a troop so he doesn't have Objective Secured.

It also makes the Grey Knight Grandmaster's Grand Strategy somewhat useless as well.

I believe currently, only Sternguards have been FAQ'd to be OS.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skoffs wrote:
So, looking at the way things are stacking up for us post FAQ, what would the top competitive builds be now?
• CCB is super strong, and GAs became a lot more survivable, so AV13 Wall looks like a strong contender.

You've got a winner here.

• with swarms being able to score and the changes to MCs, Scarab Farm might make a bit of a comeback.

Scarab-farm is back not because swarms are scoring, but because mech-spam is coming back big time.

• RCDI has still got some serious potential.

Never liked it. Never will. A deathstar without much shooting and which cannot assault the turn that it teleports is NOT a good deathstar. Moreover, the Necron's greatest strength (besides their mobility) is their ability to lead a very balanced attack. The RCDI makes their offense very unbalanced.

• not sure how Silver Tide is doing.

Mediocre. Not a competitive build.

• is Wraith Wing still viable?

Very much so. Still a top-tier tournament build.

• how's CronAir looking?

Very strong still, especially with the return of MSU.

• what about some other thinking outside the box list ideas (Deathmarks? Destroyers? Tomb Blades? Etc.)

I can see deathmarks as part of CronAir being a good build. Other builds will be somewhat gimmicky.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarkCron wrote:
So, back on topic, I think that CronAir and Wraithwing are better suited to Eternal War Missions, but Silver tide (maybe with a mini scarab farm)/AV13 wall is the build of choice for Maelstrom.

I think that Night Scythes are still great transports, but in a Maelstrom mission the turn or two you miss when waiting for them to come on is critical.

thoughts?

Maelstrom missions favor the faster armies. Unfortunately, Necrons will take a hit on Turn 1 due to their fastest units being off the table. But once their flyers come in, Necrons will then dominate in Maelstrom. CronAir and Wraithwing will still be good in both missions, though I wouldn't recommend running pure CronAir. I'd recommend a slightly more balanced build (CronAir Lite) with perhaps some AB's or a GA.

I'm seconding the Arcanthrites. Very solid experience, meta-friendly, small models.

Liking my Death Ray Sentry Pylons so far. Bit expensive, but solid against a lot of armies, hitting at least 2 vehicles / models is very likely to wreck a vehicle (even AV14) and even a mere single hit means 2 S10 AP1 hits.

Got any input on Sentry Pylons, jy2, oh great master of competitive Necrons?

(Just Focused Death Ray though, Gauss is clear to be useless and Heat Cannon is too expensive)

Do tournaments allow FW stuff?
(I genuinely don't know. I never see them in competitive lists, so I just assumed they were banned or something)

Huh? He's a HS slot that's vastly inferior to other picks as in AB and Pylons...

The discussion was a few pages ago but you take it because it's a mobile LOS blocker, AV14 with any kind of cover save is incredibly hard to take down in this meta, and because the teleport ability can offer flexibility in the objective grab game. Knock it all you want, but a Mono paired with some GAs, Command Barges, and Spyders is far from mediocre. Many lists struggle to knock out more then 3 AV 13+ HPs a turn. The Spyders will net you 1.5 a turn back, and they can't die because they have a huge moving tower in front of them. Extrapolate that over a few turns and you should be able to see how difficult a nut that is to crack. The GAs provide cover for themselves and the Mono, the Spyders keep everything alive. Throw in some scarabs to give the spyders a second job. Meanwhile your CCBs present them with an immediate threat so any anti-AV 13 going into your castle in the early turns is an after thought.

 Sigvatr wrote:
I'm seconding the Arcanthrites. Very solid experience, meta-friendly, small models.

Liking my Death Ray Sentry Pylons so far. Bit expensive, but solid against a lot of armies, hitting at least 2 vehicles / models is very likely to wreck a vehicle (even AV14) and even a mere single hit means 2 S10 AP1 hits.

Got any input on Sentry Pylons, jy2, oh great master of competitive Necrons?

(Just Focused Death Ray though, Gauss is clear to be useless and Heat Cannon is too expensive)

I really don't have much experience with them. I tend to prefer a more mobile army, but they could work, especially with the meta now shifting back towards mech. The fact that you can just put them right next to an objective is a plus. Just watch out for tank-shocking vehicles (assuming they are immobile artillery).

One of these days, I'm going to have to try one of these units.

 skoffs wrote:
Do tournaments allow FW stuff?
(I genuinely don't know. I never see them in competitive lists, so I just assumed they were banned or something)

Most of the tournaments in the West Coast, USA, do allow FW, spearheaded primary by the BAO (Bay Area Open) and the LVO (Las Vegas Open). Basically, the tournaments held by the Frontline guys - which is most of the larger GT's in the West Coast - do allow FW.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Huh? He's a HS slot that's vastly inferior to other picks as in AB and Pylons...

The discussion was a few pages ago but you take it because it's a mobile LOS blocker, AV14 with any kind of cover save is incredibly hard to take down in this meta, and because the teleport ability can offer flexibility in the objective grab game. Knock it all you want, but a Mono paired with some GAs, Command Barges, and Spyders is far from mediocre. Many lists struggle to knock out more then 3 AV 13+ HPs a turn. The Spyders will net you 1.5 a turn back, and they can't die because they have a huge moving tower in front of them. Extrapolate that over a few turns and you should be able to see how difficult a nut that is to crack. The GAs provide cover for themselves and the Mono, the Spyders keep everything alive. Throw in some scarabs to give the spyders a second job. Meanwhile your CCBs present them with an immediate threat so any anti-AV 13 going into your castle in the early turns is an after thought.

Monoliths are awesome. If you manage to deepstrike it into opponents backfield or even just the middlefield early in the game you can pull very far ahead and win the game on just successfully striking the monolith and netting huge tempo and board control. But notice there are problems with that scenario. You might very well be walking into a cluttered terrain setup that is unfriendly to deepstriking that Monolith or an astute opponent could quickly place vehicles or bodies in zones to prevent your deepstrike or increase the likelihood of a mishap. The footprint of the Monolith is huge. As strong a play as it is to deepstrike the Monolith right where you want it early, it is equally devastating to mishap or not have any place to deep strike and have your Monolith effectively neutered for the whole game. So it's a swingy variable to introduce into the list.

col_impact wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Huh? He's a HS slot that's vastly inferior to other picks as in AB and Pylons...

The discussion was a few pages ago but you take it because it's a mobile LOS blocker, AV14 with any kind of cover save is incredibly hard to take down in this meta, and because the teleport ability can offer flexibility in the objective grab game. Knock it all you want, but a Mono paired with some GAs, Command Barges, and Spyders is far from mediocre. Many lists struggle to knock out more then 3 AV 13+ HPs a turn. The Spyders will net you 1.5 a turn back, and they can't die because they have a huge moving tower in front of them. Extrapolate that over a few turns and you should be able to see how difficult a nut that is to crack. The GAs provide cover for themselves and the Mono, the Spyders keep everything alive. Throw in some scarabs to give the spyders a second job. Meanwhile your CCBs present them with an immediate threat so any anti-AV 13 going into your castle in the early turns is an after thought.

Monoliths are awesome. If you manage to deepstrike it into opponents backfield or even just the middlefield early in the game you can pull very far ahead and win the game on just successfully striking the monolith and netting huge tempo and board control. But notice there are problems with that scenario. You might very well be walking into a cluttered terrain setup that is unfriendly to deepstriking that Monolith or an astute opponent could quickly place vehicles or bodies in zones to prevent your deepstrike or increase the likelihood of a mishap. The footprint of the Monolith is huge. As strong a play as it is to deepstrike the Monolith right where you want it early, it is equally devastating to mishap or not have any place to deep strike and have your Monolith effectively neutered for the whole game. So it's a swingy variable to introduce into the list.

Don't forget that with the return of mech, you are also going to also see a return of anti-tank weaponry. Yes, you are going to see the return of the melta. Just something to keep in mind as it will be very hard for the monolith to outrun the melta.

The monolith lacks defensive powers / abilities. It is a very expensive vehicle with low-end offensive powers and its main use being transportation. While in concept, it is a strong move to deepstrike a monolith behind the enemy lines and then let other models appear through it, in reality, you face several problems. You don't have Jink, you don't have Smoker Launchers (or anything comparable), you got a huge footprint without DSM protection and you're a huge target that can hardly profit from cover (as deepstriking near cover could just as likely mean getting a Deepstrike Mishap).

Our meta has always been more mech-heavy and thus you see more AV equipment that can quickly take care of a monolith. A smoke launcher would at least give it a good chance to survive a single turn, but as it stands right now, even a AV 14 vehicle can be deceiving when just looking at its profile.

 jy2 wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

I personally think Ancanthrites are stronger than Wraiths, especially with the advent of more people taking vehicles.

Well you can spend 5 points for a ranged shot and an additional attack on the Wraiths again.

Wasn't it FAQ'd previously that you don't get the +1A? Arguing that the gun gives them +1A sounds kinda gamey to me.

It was FAQ'd both ways. First was yes, then was no. Now it is no more. They still have a close combat weapon and a pistol so RAW it would be +1A. But I can see them FAQ it to no again .

Fragile wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Fragile wrote:

Sasori wrote:I personally think Ancanthrites are stronger than Wraiths, especially with the advent of more people taking vehicles.

Well you can spend 5 points for a ranged shot and an additional attack on the Wraiths again.

Wasn't it FAQ'd previously that you don't get the +1A? Arguing that the gun gives them +1A sounds kinda gamey to me.

It was FAQ'd both ways. First was yes, then was no. Now it is no more. They still have a close combat weapon and a pistol so RAW it would be +1A. But I can see them FAQ it to no again .

Since when do Wraiths have a close combat weapon?
I thought it was a case of "if it doesn't specifically list in their profile that they have a weapon (eg. knife), they're not going to get the bonus attack if they have a pistol", wasn't it?

Ok guys, I've got 2 games (actually, 3) coming up, all competitive. One is an 1850 single-CAD BAO practice game against 2 different armies - Tau and Seer Council/Wave Serpent Deldar. The other is a no-holds-barred 2K game against a GT-winning Eldar player.

I think I am going to show them that Necrons are still a very real and top-tier tournament threat.


This is what I am planning on running:


1850 Necrons - Single-CAD

Overlord - 2+/3++, MSS, ResOrb, Warscythe, Catacomb Command Barge
Destroyer Lord - 2+, MSS, ResOrb

1x Storm-tek

5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe

6x Wraiths
6x Wraiths

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge



2K Necrons - Dual-CAD

The only problem here would be to find enough barges to run this list. Otherwise, I'm may have to change it.

Overlord - 2+/3++, MSS, ResOrb, Warscythe, Catacomb Command Barge
Overlord - 2+/3++, MSS, Warscythe, Catacomb Command Barge
Overlord - 2+/3++, MSS, Warscythe, Catacomb Command Barge

5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge


So what do you guys think? I'm expecting to see a lot of wave serpents, wraithknights and at least 1 seer council with both Fortune and Invisibility.

For the first list, I'd drop the Resorb on the D Lord for a second Stormtek- 30pts for a 16.67% better chance of reanimating 1 model that hides in a group of Wraiths anyway seems a waste and you could do with the extra haywire in case you come across a mech list.

As for the second list...

That's just plain evil...

Take care with S10 AP1 shooting and high strength low AP blast weapons, as they can "bypass" the CCB's ability to juggle hits between the Barge and the rider.

 Galorian wrote:
For the first list, I'd drop the Resorb on the D Lord for a second Stormtek- 30pts for a 16.67% better chance of reanimating 1 model that hides in a group of Wraiths anyway seems a waste and you could do with the extra haywire in case you come across a mech list.

As for the second list...

That's just plain evil...

Take care with S10 AP1 shooting and high strength low AP blast weapons, as they can "bypass" the CCB's ability to juggle hits between the Barge and the rider.

I will consider that for List #1. The main reason why I like to take a ResOrb on my D-lord is because I prefer to use him as my Warlord.

For List #2, I have an extra insurance against S10 guns (BTW, S10 AP1 is very rare. I'm much more likely to encounter S10 AP2 from WK shooting/attacks). The CCB can transfer any Immobilized results into 1W for my Overlord. That should help to keep them alive a little longer.

 jy2 wrote:

 Galorian wrote:
For the first list, I'd drop the Resorb on the D Lord for a second Stormtek- 30pts for a 16.67% better chance of reanimating 1 model that hides in a group of Wraiths anyway seems a waste and you could do with the extra haywire in case you come across a mech list.

As for the second list...

That's just plain evil...

Take care with S10 AP1 shooting and high strength low AP blast weapons, as they can "bypass" the CCB's ability to juggle hits between the Barge and the rider.

I will consider that for List #1. The main reason why I like to take a ResOrb on my D-lord is because I prefer to use him as my Warlord.

For List #2, I have an extra insurance against S10 guns (BTW, S10 AP1 is very rare. I'm much more likely to encounter S10 AP2 from WK shooting/attacks). The CCB can transfer any Immobilized results into 1W for my Overlord. That should help to keep them alive a little longer.

Transfer immobilized results? that sounds like 6th edition talk. In the 'new world' (7th edition) chariots now treat immobilized results as a crew stunned result instead. And thanks to living metal, you can ignore crew stunned with a 4+.

Holy cats! How'd I miss that? Lol.

 jy2 wrote:
Ok guys, I've got 2 games (actually, 3) coming up, all competitive. One is an 1850 single-CAD BAO practice game against 2 different armies - Tau and Seer Council/Wave Serpent Deldar. The other is a no-holds-barred 2K game against a GT-winning Eldar player.

I think I am going to show them that Necrons are still a very real and top-tier tournament threat.


This is what I am planning on running:


1850 Necrons - Single-CAD

Overlord - 2+/3++, MSS, ResOrb, Warscythe, Catacomb Command Barge
Destroyer Lord - 2+, MSS, ResOrb

1x Storm-tek

5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe

6x Wraiths
6x Wraiths

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge



2K Necrons - Dual-CAD

The only problem here would be to find enough barges to run this list. Otherwise, I'm may have to change it.

Overlord - 2+/3++, MSS, ResOrb, Warscythe, Catacomb Command Barge
Overlord - 2+/3++, MSS, Warscythe, Catacomb Command Barge
Overlord - 2+/3++, MSS, Warscythe, Catacomb Command Barge

5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge


So what do you guys think? I'm expecting to see a lot of wave serpents, wraithknights and at least 1 seer council with both Fortune and Invisibility.

Seems like you are light on ground based Objective Secured units, ie Ghost Arks.

col_impact wrote:

Seems like you are light on ground based Objective Secured units, ie Ghost Arks.

The problem is that I don't own any at the moment, although I do have 2 on order.

But it really isn't a problem. I dare any Eldar player to turbo-boost their jetbike troops into the heart of my army.

Also, I don't expect wave serpents to be a problem, not when I have so much tesla shooting, wraiths and bargelords.

As for 60 marines in drop pods, I'm not concerned. I should be able to clear them off of the objectives.

My 1500 pts double-CAD list:

2x CCB-lord (just scythe & weave)
4x 5 warriors + night scythe
5x annibarge

And yes, I actually own 7 barges... I almost sold the extra two before 7th came out.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Yeah, the lack of psychic defense is just stupid. The race that's most resistant to the influence of the Warp has no defense against it. Legit.

Well, I'm thinking about CSM as allies of convenience with a Sorcerer or winged DP and troops (Cultists or CSM in Rhinos) for holding objectives.
Any thoughts here?

 Galorian wrote:
Everything in this game is "justified" by fluff

Like how regular space marines are weak and easily killed, eldar can summon Slanesh daemons, the Eldar WERE battle bros with tau (same with space marines) and that black templars are allies of convenience with eldar, the most pyschic race out there?
Absolutely, everything is justified.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Galorian wrote:
Everything in this game is "justified" by fluff

Like how regular space marines are weak and easily killed, eldar can summon Slanesh daemons, the Eldar WERE battle bros with tau (same with space marines) and that black templars are allies of convenience with eldar, the most pyschic race out there?
Absolutely, everything is justified.

These things you just recounted wouldn't be pissing people off half as much if it wasn't for the fact they represent a breaking from fluff in a game that's built around it.

So are you saying that that Eldar should be able to summon daemons (which is stupid) Or are you saying that the game doesn't justify that fluff (Proving your original statement wrong)