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Chaplain dreads usually so no need to burn CP and you get better stats and durability, even for iron hands. It's taking advantage of horrible FW index writing basically. Not sure if thats what the lists in the top 8 are though mind you, I just know there was a lot of it there.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2020/01/25/lvo-2020-top-8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Frontline gaming posted the lists last night.

Not too much surprise. The orks stand out a bit.

Sure is an interesting set of list:

Aeldari Jet Bike List- Skyweavers plus Shining Spears
Orks - 115 Boyz, 50 Gretchen, 3 SAGs, and 15 Tankbustas
Imperium - Blood Angels, Adeptus Mechanicum, and Iron Hands
2 Raven Guard (similar) - Raptors Successor Centurion Spam
Iron Hands - Brigade
2 Iron Hands (duplicated) - 3 Chaplain Dreadnaughts + Intercessor Spam

Let's hope GW sees the need to bring Space Marines, especially Iron Hands, down a peg.

FWIW, the list that fell in the Ghost Round were:

Chaos - Alpha Legion Possessed Bomb, Thousand Sons Psychers, Nurgle support (Nurglings and Plague Burst Crawlers) with 199 Reserve Points
Craft worlds - Triple Shining Spears
Imperial Fist - Artillery
Iron Hands (a third duplicate) - 3 Chaplain Dreadnaughts + Intercessor Spam
Raven Guard (similar) - Raptors Successor Centurion Spam

 Red Corsair wrote:
Chaplain dreads usually so no need to burn CP and you get better stats and durability, even for iron hands. It's taking advantage of horrible FW index writing basically. Not sure if thats what the lists in the top 8 are though mind you, I just know there was a lot of it there.

6W being the threshold for when you can be targeted makes a lot more sense. Anything the size of a small vehicle like a sentinel isn't going to blend into the crowd.

 alextroy wrote:

2 Raven Guard (similar) - Raptors Successor Centurion Spam

Anyone running Raptors as straight Raven Guard Successors(as in utilizing the "Inheritors of the Primarch" bit) ought to be ashamed.
Long-Range Marksmen and Stealthy are right there people!

They were actually Long-range Marksmen and Master Artisans.

 alextroy wrote:
They were actually Long-range Marksmen and Master Artisans.

So they should be ashamed of themselves then.

115 boyz and 50 gretchin... I hope they use timers there. How the hell does he move all those and get all the shooting done in time?

Domandi wrote:
115 boyz and 50 gretchin... I hope they use timers there. How the hell does he move all those and get all the shooting done in time?

They made the handy movement trays for Apoc that help mass hordes I find.

Domandi wrote:
115 boyz and 50 gretchin... I hope they use timers there. How the hell does he move all those and get all the shooting done in time?

Using the Apocalypse bases, maybe?

Domandi wrote:
115 boyz and 50 gretchin... I hope they use timers there. How the hell does he move all those and get all the shooting done in time?

Movement trays and the list has 3 SAG and 15 tank bustas for shooting. If he's running short on time he can skip boyz and grot shooting and not really lose anything most of the time

It's hilarious when the solution to running low on time is "Well these 150+ models don't really need to shoot, anyway."

Bummer that the only way dreads are viable is as characters taking advantage of targeting rules. If a true dreadnought list could work I'd be all over it!

Thanks very much for posting the lists

 Red Corsair wrote:
Chaplain dreads usually so no need to burn CP and you get better stats and durability, even for iron hands. It's taking advantage of horrible FW index writing basically. Not sure if thats what the lists in the top 8 are though mind you, I just know there was a lot of it there.

Because Chaplain Dreads were making noise before?
Oh no wait it was GWs shoddy writing that did that!

 RiTides wrote:
It's hilarious when the solution to running low on time is "Well these 150+ models don't really need to shoot, anyway."

Bummer that the only way dreads are viable is as characters taking advantage of targeting rules. If a true dreadnought list could work I'd be all over it!

Thanks very much for posting the lists

Not sure would I bother to shoot 150 models with ork stats even with all the time just to get odd wound or two that doesn't matter anyway when you crash into melee and wipe the unit. Healthier for the wrist.

Well he's making use of the dice rolling app, which makes it a billion times easier.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Chaplain dreads usually so no need to burn CP and you get better stats and durability, even for iron hands. It's taking advantage of horrible FW index writing basically. Not sure if thats what the lists in the top 8 are though mind you, I just know there was a lot of it there.

Because Chaplain Dreads were making noise before?
Oh no wait it was GWs shoddy writing that did that!

GW learn a new tune already

Semi-Finals round is:

Aeldari Jet Bikes (Skyweavers plus Shining Spears) vs Iron Hands (3 Chaplain Dreadnaughts + Intercessor Spam)

and

Raven Guard (Raptors Successor Centurion Spam) vs Iron Hands (3 Chaplain Dreadnaughts + Intercessor Spam)

Yes, we may very much end up with a mirror match finals

Was interesting watching the Eldar versus Orks game.

Going to start a fight - but as I can see it had relatively little to do with 40k and was all about ITC. Which isn't to take anything away from either player but I'm not sure what you would take away from either list in terms of "balance" if that concerned you.

Ork player arguably made a mistake/was unlucky on his screens being cleared so some of his characters could be assaulted. You then ended up in a mass mutually destructive brawl that just ate out the clock (moving, charging, piling in and consolidating really adding up).

So due to secondaries, the Eldar took a huge lead by the end of turn 2 while the Ork player was left with just 4 minutes left at the start of their turn 3 so they tapped out. If time wasn't an issue though, he may have gone on to win as there wasn't much Eldar left. But then if time was not an issue (and secondaries were not there/different) e everyone would play differently.

Well when you add in additional restrictions like time no wonder things go haywire...The tournament rules should be made in mind that 40k keeps getting slower and slower and points keep dropping and dropping. Either increase tournament times or since that's not really practical drop the points. Players upped points to 2k at the start of 8th ed to compensate for point hikes in indexes. Now that gw has dropped tons of points to sell more models game size should logically drop to compensate rather than reward gw's cash grabbing strategy


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmmm seems there was some rule errors(streamers even used term cheating). Missed it but could somebody explain what happened? Anybody know?

And the LVO Finalist are Raven Guard vs Iron Hands. We dodged the mirror match.

 alextroy wrote:
And the LVO Finalist are Raven Guard vs Iron Hands. We dodged the mirror match.

Well I guess the guy has seen the opponents list then , should be a cake walk

tneva82 wrote:
Hmmm seems there was some rule errors(streamers even used term cheating). Missed it but could somebody explain what happened? Anybody know?

Cheating and liberal use of mistakes/misinterpretation are common and largely tolerated by both players and organizers at Frontline events, so long as they aren't especially eggregious. Maybe it is different elsewhere but it would be unreasonable to assume it isn't happening.

Chat is losing its mind after a IH Levi survived a unit of GravCents unloading into it.

 RiTides wrote:
It's hilarious when the solution to running low on time is "Well these 150+ models don't really need to shoot, anyway."

Bummer that the only way dreads are viable is as characters taking advantage of targeting rules. If a true dreadnought list could work I'd be all over it!

Thanks very much for posting the lists

It can work, it just can't win the LVO. Which, and I mean this as a statement of fact, not a judgement, you weren't going to do anyway. For the level of play 99% of the community is at, dreadnought lists work just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Hmmm seems there was some rule errors(streamers even used term cheating). Missed it but could somebody explain what happened? Anybody know?

Cheating and liberal use of mistakes/misinterpretation are common and largely tolerated by both players and organizers at Frontline events, so long as they aren't especially eggregious. Maybe it is different elsewhere but it would be unreasonable to assume it isn't happening.

It's weird, you mispelled 'whenever anyone has played warhammer ever in the history of ever' as 'at frontline events'.

Everyone cheats at warhammer. It's almost impossible not to. If you honestly believe you've ever in your life played a perfect game of warhammer it's because you don't know the rules all that well.

Also, fun fact, twitch chat is even more full of gak than the average backseat warhammer-er. Not only are they often just straight up wrong about how rules work but they also aren't at the table able to hear and see exactly what's going on with practical considerations of 40k like agreed upon measurements and wobbly model.

Now, if there was explicit cheating and it was found out we can name and shame later. Some rando who barely knows his rulebook from his own butthole on Twitch shouting about rules not being played how HE interpreted them means next to nothing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Well when you add in additional restrictions like time no wonder things go haywire...The tournament rules should be made in mind that 40k keeps getting slower and slower and points keep dropping and dropping. Either increase tournament times or since that's not really practical drop the points. Players upped points to 2k at the start of 8th ed to compensate for point hikes in indexes. Now that gw has dropped tons of points to sell more models game size should logically drop to compensate rather than reward gw's cash grabbing strategy


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmmm seems there was some rule errors(streamers even used term cheating). Missed it but could somebody explain what happened? Anybody know?

Did you watch that game? They overthought their movements so bad that at one point it took almost 10 minutes to move ONE unit.

Yeah, 40k needs to chill with the universal point drops, but that game was definitely an outlier.

Misunderstanding/forgetting/misplaying is categorically not cheating.

Cheating implies intent.

Great games all. Good job Reece and Frankie. Those Leviathan dreads and Chaplain dreads are no joke. We'll probably see a shake up when GW reworks IA in the near future.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Misunderstanding/forgetting/misplaying is categorically not cheating.

Cheating implies intent.

While I agree in a general sense, I have frequently seen players push things into willful negligence; maybe they actually did not know but if so it was because they simply did not read their own rules.

 alextroy wrote:
And the LVO Finalist are Raven Guard vs Iron Hands. We dodged the mirror match.

Its blatantly the ITC format fault and nothing to do with marines...

ITC needs to consider redoing the secondaries which involve killing things. Too easy to build Marine and eldar lists that give a Max of 2/4 points for various kill based secondaries. Especially anything to do with PL. PL is based on the options the unit entry could take, not what they actually took and shouldn't be used as an universal measuring stick. There are reasons matches play uses points and not straight PL


With how imbalanced the marine supplements are compared to every other codex it takes a problem and magnifies it.

Here these books are all more powerful with more options as well as having cheaper options for their stats/rules than everyone else, and on top of it you won't be able to get Max secondary points for any of the kill based categories in ITC format. GLHF.

 puma713 wrote:
Great games all. Good job Reece and Frankie. Those Leviathan dreads and Chaplain dreads are no joke. We'll probably see a shake up when GW reworks IA in the near future.

Those units weren't a problem before the new rules marines got in the new codex and supplements, and if they nerf leviathans they'll hit the hellforged version just as hard and it isn't a problem. The issue is the new loyalist marines rules. That's what needs to be addressed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
And the LVO Finalist are Raven Guard vs Iron Hands. We dodged the mirror match.

Its blatantly the ITC format fault and nothing to do with marines...

Obviously. Move along folks. Nothing to see here.