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Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

Iirc the gameplay advantage for "Favored" units is that they get their Aspiring Champion for free.


They gain
.free aspiring champion
.access to the armory for that champion
*an army that fits the lore of the faction



Fun note-demons spawned in off an icon do not count as deepstriking and can move and assault as normal.



GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 aphyon wrote:
Fun note-demons spawned in off an icon do not count as deepstriking and can move and assault as normal.
One of the key abilities of the old siren prince was flying around immune to all harm while placing daemonettes directly into combat up and down the board.

It was also possible with the 4e CSM codex, but not as popular with the weaker generic daemons. Drive-by summoning from rhinos was a tactic I tried a few times in 5th and it wasn't as terrible as their statline would suggest.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Man that late 4th Chaos dex was a heck of a dissapointment.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






I'm trying to piece together what kind of Chaos list I want to do using the 3.5 dex. Leaning towards Slaanesh because I never tried them before. Not sure about going full Emperor's Children or not.

I'm also tempted to try an Alpha Legion list and go nuts with infiltrators with deep strike support.

Re-reading this codex has be drooling nurgle-style all over it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/04 20:55:58


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Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I liked the Sacred Number rules from 3.5. Actually being given a bonus for taking units that matched the fluff. What a novel idea.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Man that late 4th Chaos dex was a heck of a dissapointment.
Damn straight it was.


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

 Mezmorki wrote:
I'm trying to piece together what kind of Chaos list I want to do using the 3.5 dex. Leaning towards Slaanesh because I never tried them before. Not sure about going full Emperor's Children or not.

I'm also tempted to try an Alpha Legion list and go nuts with infiltrators with deep strike support.

Re-reading this codex has be drooling nurgle-style all over it.


There is so much fun to be had. our khorne player is toying with the idea of doing a demon heavy word bearers army so he can use his dark apostle mini with the codex.


I am not a chaos player myself but i do have loads of fun fighting against this codex. that last battle i absolutely could not kill those predators with all those good chaosy upgrades, but it didn't stop me from trying.




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Insectum7 wrote:
Man that late 4th Chaos dex was a heck of a dissapointment.


Double las prince with 9 obliterators intensifies.
it's arguably even worse than 3.5 Opness....

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

Not Online!!! wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Man that late 4th Chaos dex was a heck of a dissapointment.


Double las prince with 9 obliterators intensifies.
it's arguably even worse than 3.5 Opness....


Yeah about that....had a guy at my store try that on me after copying a tourney list. i completely shut him down he gave up on turn 3 since lash doesn't work on vehicles. 6 venerable dreadnoughts don't care. especially when you bubble wrap your princes in plague marines that cannot take power fists.



GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I liked the Sacred Number rules from 3.5. Actually being given a bonus for taking units that matched the fluff. What a novel idea.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Man that late 4th Chaos dex was a heck of a dissapointment.
Damn straight it was.



is it bad that on occaision i revisit this to have a good laugh and despair then again as to what they have done to chaos in general since then?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 aphyon wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Man that late 4th Chaos dex was a heck of a dissapointment.


Double las prince with 9 obliterators intensifies.
it's arguably even worse than 3.5 Opness....


Yeah about that....had a guy at my store try that on me after copying a tourney list. i completely shut him down he gave up on turn 3 since lash doesn't work on vehicles. 6 venerable dreadnoughts don't care. especially when you bubble wrap your princes in plague marines that cannot take power fists.

TBF, nobody normally did run 6 dreads, nevermind that those 6 dreads sruvive the onslaught of 9 obliterators...

however, my point was, that it was worse in all things and through streamlining got even more OP than it had anyright to be....

makes me miss when chaos was customizable though....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/05 08:06:52


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

Dreads are my favorite model so when the MOTF allowed them to be taken as elite and heavies i was in.

Fire support dreads in re-enforced cover dueling with oblits give as good as they take especially after they reduced the oblits T to 4(5). especially while the other ones drop pod in next to the lash princes in the back

But yeah i have seen all those gimmick lists when WAAC players tried to stretch the rules. the guy i was fighting was notorious for copy/pasting winning lists he saw from tourney reports.



GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Insectum7 wrote:
Man that late 4th Chaos dex was a heck of a dissapointment.
It certainly was if you were disappointed by loss of wargear and flavour.
Not so much if you were disappointed by the loss of the siren prince. Some of the things in 3rd ed just took it too far - see the Blood Angels and their 27"+ charge for example.


Not Online!!! wrote:
Double las prince with 9 obliterators intensifies.
it's arguably even worse than 3.5 Opness....
Two princes, 9 oblits, three mech squads of plague marines and a squad of melta raptors give or take. Plasmacide optional.

Must have faced a variation of that a bunch of times and I think the 5th edition meta did a fair amount to subdue it. Against a big mech rush or tank gunline you were more concerned about a last turn objective lash but you had the whole game to do something about it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/05 10:58:51


 
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

A.T. wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Man that late 4th Chaos dex was a heck of a dissapointment.
It certainly was if you were disappointed by loss of wargear and flavour.
Not so much if you were disappointed by the loss of the siren prince. Some of the things in 3rd ed just took it too far - see the Blood Angels and their 27"+ charge for example.
Yeah, 'cause it's replacement - Lash - was so much better.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






A.T. wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Man that late 4th Chaos dex was a heck of a dissapointment.
It certainly was if you were disappointed by loss of wargear and flavour.
Not so much if you were disappointed by the loss of the siren prince. Some of the things in 3rd ed just took it too far - see the Blood Angels and their 27"+ charge for example.


The 3rd ed BA codex might have been the worst codex GW has ever made.

The Siren power was a tiny price to pay for an otherwise fantastic book, imo. Yes, I saw a lot of IW armies with Obliterators and four Heavy Support options, but maybe no other book has been as fun to think up army themes and build lusts for. I built a bunch of armies for Chaos and I didn't even play Chaos. I can still open that book and it is just inspirational.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

The 3rd ed BA codex might have been the worst codex GW has ever made


Which is why our group uses the 5th ed dex, funny thing is, when the 30K book came out for the BA legion it mirrored many of the rules/composition that appeared in the 5th edition dex.



GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Insectum7 wrote:
I can still open that book and it is just inspirational.
The range of wargear and other upgrade options were considerable and interesting. And it's the last time daemons and marines were a combined faction with ~38 distinct units plus characters.

But the layout of the book was labyrinthine and the balance such that siren princes were not the worst of it. It's a pity the 4e book didn't keep the options and do them sensibly.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Alright ... here's my stab at an Emperor's Children List (2000 points). No idea how this will work!

+++HQ+++

Keeper of Secrets (greater demon) (160)
- Wind of Chaos psychic power

Chaos Lord on Steed of Slaanesh (150)
- Mark of Slaanesh, Demonic Resilience (+1 T) Visage (-1 to enemy Ld)
- Dark Blade, Plasma Pistol
- The steed gives him +1A and moved as cavalry.
- So he has a power weapon at S6, with 5 attacks (6 on the charge)

+++ELITES+++

5x Chosen Retinue on Daemonic Steeds (330 !!!!)
- Frags, Mark of Slaanesh, Bolt Pistols, Power Weapons, Daemonic Strength, Furious Charge
- These guys have T5 + S5. Power weapons are S6 on the charge

+++TROOPS+++

6x Noise Marines Squad (168)
- Frags, mark of Slaanesh, INFILTRATION, 2x sonic blaster, 1x blastmaster, 1x plasma gun
- Aspiring Champion daemonic strength, power weapon

6x Noise Marines Squad (168)
- Same as above

6x Noise Marines Squad (168)
- Same as above

6x Noise Marines Squad (168)
- Same as above

6x Daemonettes (90)

6x Daemonettes (90)

+++HEAVY SUPPORT+++

Predator (135)
- Dedicated to slaanesh (warp amp), Blastmaster turret, heavy bolter sponsons, Extra armor

Dreadnought (184)
- Extra CCW, 1x sonic blaster, 1x doom siren, Warp Amp, Blasphemous rune (further -1 to Ld)
- Daemonic possession + mutated hull

Dreadnought (184)
- Extra CCW, 1x sonic blaster, 1x doom siren, Warp Amp, Blasphemous rune (further -1 to Ld)
- Daemonic possession + mutated hull

=====================================================================

+++ GAME PLAN +++

The four squads of Noise Marines infiltrate up field in a relatively safe place (I can also keep them in the deployment zone). The blastmasters are pretty strong (S8 blast if they don't move or else S5 assault 2 pinning). Idea is to camp on objectives and push out some fire. If anything gets too close, they switch to charge mode, where the warp screams and aspiring champion do their thing. They are also the anchor points for summoning the deamons.

The dreadnoughts are TOUGH (I hope) and are kitting out for close quarter combat. Need to deploy them aggressively in order to move up and support the noise marine squads. The Predator is there for fire support and tank shocking stuff as I move up field. The hope is that the warp amps from these three vehicles create a lot of leadership penalties across the table, so that I can force morale tests and have a good chance for them to fail.

The chaos lord and his chosen are there to be the big threat. They are all fairly tough at S5 T5 and hit had. Expensive unit through - could be totally overkill.

Thoughts? I've never done this before

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/06 21:23:51


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Isn't mutated hull a Mark of Nurgle only upgrade?

Nevermind, I see now you donĀ“t need MoN, or any mark for that matter to buy the MH upgrade. Its crazy what you could do with this codex

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/06 21:38:41


 
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Unusual to see a Chaos Lord without Daemonic Strength/Daemonic Mutation.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Unusual to see a Chaos Lord without Daemonic Strength/Daemonic Mutation.


The steed of Slaanesh grants the mutation and the dark sword gives +2 strength. So I think I have it covered?

Want a better 40K?
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

But more Strength is better. D-Strength + F-Charge will get you to 8 on the charge, which is enough to cause problems to everyone.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/06 23:18:37


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Don't forget to include icons in your units. You get one free for each marked squad - you need them to summon the lesser daemons.

You also need to note which champion is possessed (though you pick at the start of the game) - their base strength is increased to 6.

Your lord is at risk of getting power-fisted with a base toughness of 4 and no invulnerable. He is relatively conservative, lack of points?

Aside from that you may struggle with vehicles depending on your edition of rules.

----------------------------------

I can see what you are aiming for. I suspect it will be quite skewed depending on your opponent and edition though - that chosen unit is battlecannon bait.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Instead of doing the chaos lord + chosen on mounts, I could swap them to terminators and give all the noise marine squads teleport homers. The terminator load out ends up a bit cheaper. They don't get the toughness boost from the mount but would gain a 2+/5++ save instead.

Hell....am I reading it right that I could actually give the terminators infiltration?

Want a better 40K?
Check out ProHammer: Classic - An Awesomely Unified Ruleset for 3rd - 7th Edition 40K... for retro 40k feels!
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Mezmorki wrote:
Hell....am I reading it right that I could actually give the terminators infiltration?
No bikes, steeds, daemonic stature, marks of khone, models with followers, or anyone with terminator armour may infiltrate.

In any event the terminators lack the mobility of your unit, when I mentioned the lord I wondered if he would be suitable to tank for them but it's more points to get him to that level.

Waiting for reserves in earlier editions in a risky business. You'd be starting on the table with four small infantry units, two close combat dreadnoughts that lack transportation, and a predator with a poor mans battlecannon - and waiting until turn 3-4 to see the rest of it. Those noise marines would get wrecked before any reinforcements arrived.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/07 00:31:45


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






If it ditched the predator and keeper I could swap in for a land raider. Then I could also go cheaper on the lord and chosen, using the land raider to provide both protection and mobility for getting them into CC range. I've never really liked land raiders but maybe the chaos upgrades give it some better utility

Want a better 40K?
Check out ProHammer: Classic - An Awesomely Unified Ruleset for 3rd - 7th Edition 40K... for retro 40k feels!
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Worth trying your original ideas on the table before you abandon them IMO, you'll get a better idea of what works and where the weaknesses are - i.e. getting the dreads into action, having icon units in good positions for the arrivial of the daemons, etc.
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I liked the Sacred Number rules from 3.5. Actually being given a bonus for taking units that matched the fluff. What a novel idea.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Man that late 4th Chaos dex was a heck of a dissapointment.
Damn straight it was.



Was a good read, and as a bonus you wrote it when I was almost 3 years old. It is good to see that GW did not lost their touch, when taking away stuff from armies.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

Mezmorki wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Unusual to see a Chaos Lord without Daemonic Strength/Daemonic Mutation.


The steed of Slaanesh grants the mutation and the dark sword gives +2 strength. So I think I have it covered?


Don't forget the demonic rune to make you immune to instant death from double strength guns.

The steed is nice, cav/beasts/leapers get a 12" charge instead of 6"




Predator (135)
- Dedicated to slaanesh (warp amp), Blastmaster turret, heavy bolter sponsons, Extra armor


I fight chaos preds/dreads all the time-
dozer blade for preds(optional if you have the points), demonic possession (ignores stunned and shaken-better than extra armor), mutated hull (+1 armor to all facings suddenly you have a mini land raider AV 14/12/11), parasitic possession (you come with your own tech marine that repairs each damaged system on a 4+ makes the dozer blade slightly redundant if you roll that magic 1)

Since we are using our 5th ed hybrid rules and defensive strength weapons are 5 or less a twin linked las and heavy bolter sponsons are ace.


If it ditched the predator and keeper I could swap in for a land raider. Then I could also go cheaper on the lord and chosen, using the land raider to provide both protection and mobility for getting them into CC range. I've never really liked land raiders but maybe the chaos upgrades give it some better utility

Sure a land raider can be killed, but it is a far cry from how squishy they have become in current 40K. remember you cannot give them demonic possession if they are a transport so the only real upgrades they need are the parasitic possession and to keep it thematic a warp amp and living vehicle (a real close combat ability not that silly stuff they introduced in 8th edition)




A.T. wrote:
 Mezmorki wrote:
Hell....am I reading it right that I could actually give the terminators infiltration?
No bikes, steeds, daemonic stature, marks of khone, models with followers, or anyone with terminator armour may infiltrate.

In any event the terminators lack the mobility of your unit, when I mentioned the lord I wondered if he would be suitable to tank for them but it's more points to get him to that level.

Waiting for reserves in earlier editions in a risky business. You'd be starting on the table with four small infantry units, two close combat dreadnoughts that lack transportation, and a predator with a poor mans battlecannon - and waiting until turn 3-4 to see the rest of it. Those noise marines would get wrecked before any reinforcements arrived.


In our hybrid 5th ed rules we went to the 3+ reserves on turn 2&3 auto on turn 4 so it isn't that terrible and moves the game along by more than not getting everything into the fight.





GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 aphyon wrote:
Don't forget the demonic rune to make you immune to instant death from double strength guns.
IIRC, that was a 30 point upgrade. Quite a hefty piece of kit, given the 100 point limit on Daemonic Gifts.

 aphyon wrote:
The steed is nice, cav/beasts/leapers get a 12" charge instead of 6"
That's why I always preferred D-Speed to D-Flight. Your Daemon Prince could move, and be on the other side of your DZ in no time.

 aphyon wrote:
dozer blade for preds(optional if you have the points), demonic possession (ignores stunned and shaken-better than extra armor), mutated hull (+1 armor to all facings suddenly you have a mini land raider AV 14/12/11), parasitic possession (you come with your own tech marine that repairs each damaged system on a 4+ makes the dozer blade slightly redundant if you roll that magic 1)
All those things eat up points very quickly. I often ended up ditching Parasitic Possession first in favour of the other two.

Except on Land Raiders, as you pointed out. There it was gold.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

We just ignore the war gear points limit because we use base 5th ed rules, which also mean you get the frag and krak grenades for free

The points may add up but they are very much worth it (unless you are fighting 3rd ed grey knights the true lore counter codex).

That last game i posted pics from i could not kill those preds no matter what i tried. i damaged them, blew off guns or immobilized them but they grew back and every stunned/shaken result was no effect so yeah worth it in my book.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/07 06:25:56




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 aphyon wrote:
The points may add up but they are very much worth it (unless you are fighting 3rd ed grey knights the true lore counter codex).
A 'competitive' 3e GK list would be what, 2-3 landraiders, a couple of las/missile dreads, a few scoring PAGK squads and the grand masters retinue with a mix of swords and hammers?

You'd definitely want the extra armour and instant death immunity against that. Or a couple of meltaguns and a second game lined up, 3e DH was not the strongest of books.
   
 
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