Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:
No generic HQ would be a bit weird wouldn't it?

Chaos Lord/Daemon Prince?

I meant one specific to them.

Bloodloyrd Skullmastare or something.

Aight, I must say, I'm very pleased with how these berserkers turned out, especially pleased by how restrained GW was with how reasonable the gold trims are here and the lack of thos god awful biomecanical cables they decided to cover CSM in recent years. They even kept the gloves which I feared they removed, and that's nice.

I don't mind the bare arm but I feel like it's turning what was Kharn "thing" into just a generic thing, which is a shame. I do like cataphractii style shoulderpad tho, and I like that all helmets are different (even if some are a bit silly, like that Khain style one that looks more like a piece of Lizardmen gear or a very harmfisted "DID YOU KNOW THAT KHAIN IS A PART OF KHORN" bit than something that really belong on a khorne berserker.

What I like a bit less tho is the apparently lack of options here.
Having the icon be a backpack thing so the carrier can still chop stuff is fine by me, but where are the Berserker Champion options?
I have the feeling that GW will just copout again and say that the axes and swords have the same stats for that unit, which will reduce its build diversity to just "cheap boltpistol or more expensive plasma?" and "How many 2H weapon you want in that squad", which is very... limited for what is supposed to be the core of the army.

It's especially silly when you look at the Death guard and their (admitedly awfully designed and bloated) options, and how they have way more mele stuff than what (as far as I can tell) the berserkers will get.
They have 2 different types of mele heavy weapons, a base mele weapon that can be swapped for a Mace or axe and the option to go dual wield, while the champions has fist or powersword.

I would have expected the Berserkers to have at least the option to dual wield and 2 different type of mele heavy weapons (axe or sword) and a meaningful difference between their axe and swords.

I may be reading too much into the limited numbers of pics we got so far, but I really hope I'm wrong here and they'll get more than the stuff they showed us so far.

In terms of options, I'm just annoyed none of them have a right hand melee weapon.

 judgedoug wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

They very very clearly said nothing about Terminators in any of this though, did they?

Indeed, with that logic, the absence of the names of other releases specifically leads me to believe there are no further models coming.

Thats a gross misconstrual of my point, and you know it.

We are saying there are no terminators coming because reliable sources told us that they aren't coming. You are saying they "very very clearly" said xyz as an apparent attempt to challenge the belief that terminators aren't coming - my point is that nowhere in that does it say anything about terminators and we know there are other units that haven't yet been previewed that are explicitly not terminators, ergo your "very very clear" statement does nothing to actually challenge the idea that there are no world eaters termies.

 Arbitrator wrote:
No generic HQ would be a bit weird wouldn't it?

I'm sure someone will chime in with another pic from the Thousand Sons release to prove me wrong, but... did Thousand Sons have one in 7th ed (or was it 6th?) when they got resculpted? If I recall it was just Ahriman and Magnus, otherwise your only option was to use the generic CSM minis for Lords/Sorceror/Daemon Prince, etc. I believe the Exalted Sorcerors released with their 8th edition codex, which was their first generic HQ unit (and which I am convinced was originally intended to be some sort of a unit rather than a box containing 3 HQs).

EviscerationPlague wrote:
In terms of options, I'm just annoyed none of them have a right hand melee weapon.

Huh. You're right. I genuinely didn't notice that

Release is more TS than DG in size
WE keep Helbrutes, LRs, Preds, Forgefiends, Defilers, Heldrakes, LoS
No Havocs/Teeth of Khorne, no jump packs
No Terminator Lord, no red butchers/new terminators
No normal Possessed - WE get 2x specific Khorne versions (one of which is "8 Bloodletters in a single marine")
Three generic HQs: Daemon Prince, Master of Executions, and Juggernaut
2x unique HQs: Khârn and "flying Juggernaut SC" (seen "Lord Invocatus" and "Brazen Beasts warlord" mentioned)

This is what came out of the redditor

chaos0xomega wrote:

I'm sure someone will chime in with another pic from the Thousand Sons release to prove me wrong, but... did Thousand Sons have one in 7th ed (or was it 6th?) when they got resculpted? If I recall it was just Ahriman and Magnus, otherwise your only option was to use the generic CSM minis for Lords/Sorceror/Daemon Prince, etc. I believe the Exalted Sorcerors released with their 8th edition codex, which was their first generic HQ unit (and which I am convinced was originally intended to be some sort of a unit rather than a box containing 3 HQs).

Exalted Sorcerers were 7th, as was everything except the Infernal Master. They didn't get anything with their 8th codex except being able to take the Vortex Beast (which already had a model).

Bare arms! Just as I’d hoped. Fantastic. These look really good. Exactly as I would have done the, if I had the talent. Love a nod to an old model.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Release is more TS than DG in size
WE keep Helbrutes, LRs, Preds, Forgefiends, Defilers, Heldrakes, LoS
No Havocs/Teeth of Khorne, no jump packs
No Terminator Lord, no red butchers/new terminators
No normal Possessed - WE get 2x specific Khorne versions (one of which is "8 Bloodletters in a single marine")
Three generic HQs: Daemon Prince, Master of Executions, and Juggernaut
2x unique HQs: Khârn and "flying Juggernaut SC" (seen "Lord Invocatus" and "Brazen Beasts warlord" mentioned)

This is what came out of the redditor

Interesting that the Master of Executions stays as an HQ, though I guess that that's thematic. Also, any word if cultists are going to be in there? Because they're pretty universal across all Chaos forces.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Release is more TS than DG in size
WE keep Helbrutes, LRs, Preds, Forgefiends, Defilers, Heldrakes, LoS
No Havocs/Teeth of Khorne, no jump packs
No Terminator Lord, no red butchers/new terminators
No normal Possessed - WE get 2x specific Khorne versions (one of which is "8 Bloodletters in a single marine")
Three generic HQs: Daemon Prince, Master of Executions, and Juggernaut
2x unique HQs: Khârn and "flying Juggernaut SC" (seen "Lord Invocatus" and "Brazen Beasts warlord" mentioned)

This is what came out of the redditor

Interesting that the Master of Executions stays as an HQ, though I guess that that's thematic. Also, any word if cultists are going to be in there? Because they're pretty universal across all Chaos forces.

No information that I'm aware of beyond the above, but keep in mind the source in question was just answering questions ad hoc so an omission is more a reflection of what questions he was asked than it is a "this isn't in the codex". I'd bet a limb that cultists will be in the book as they are in DG & TS

It's been a long time since I've played, but last I remember, weren't Eviscerators (i.e. big two handed chainswords) effectively treated like chainfists, rules-wise?

If so, that two handed axe and two handed chainsword might end up the functional equivalent of powerfists / chainfists. Just speculating at the moment.

In any case, I am pleasantly surprised with the new kit. A nice, clean, no nonsense look, no crazy mutations, none of those weird mutated tubes. Lots of MKV-ish armor, especially the chest pieces.

There are bits I'm not super fond of - I prefer all my guys to have helmets, and I'm not really on board with the cataphract-esque shoulder pads on some of them.

But overall, I'm quite pleased with the results.

As far as terminators go, I will be quite disappointed if there aren't any. But lots of armies seem to be released in multiple waves these days, so I'll hold out hope.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
In terms of options, I'm just annoyed none of them have a right hand melee weapon.

It’s very rare for right handed melee weapons for csm
Raptors have them
The shadow spear champion does
And a few hq

 GaroRobe wrote:
It’s very rare for right handed melee weapons for csm
Raptors have them
The shadow spear champion does
And a few hq

Current 'Zerker box has 'em too.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Release is more TS than DG in size
WE keep Helbrutes, LRs, Preds, Forgefiends, Defilers, Heldrakes, LoS
No Havocs/Teeth of Khorne, no jump packs
No Terminator Lord, no red butchers/new terminators
No normal Possessed - WE get 2x specific Khorne versions (one of which is "8 Bloodletters in a single marine")
Three generic HQs: Daemon Prince, Master of Executions, and Juggernaut
2x unique HQs: Khârn and "flying Juggernaut SC" (seen "Lord Invocatus" and "Brazen Beasts warlord" mentioned)

This is what came out of the redditor

Interesting that the Master of Executions stays as an HQ, though I guess that that's thematic. Also, any word if cultists are going to be in there? Because they're pretty universal across all Chaos forces.

No information that I'm aware of beyond the above, but keep in mind the source in question was just answering questions ad hoc so an omission is more a reflection of what questions he was asked than it is a "this isn't in the codex". I'd bet a limb that cultists will be in the book as they are in DG & TS

Ok, that makes sense. I'm wondering if for the stuff that isn't directly in the codex but should be, like Possessed and Havocs, if it will be like how the Slaves to Darkness units in the CSM codex, where you can play them but have to look at another codex for the datasheet.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Release is more TS than DG in size
WE keep Helbrutes, LRs, Preds, Forgefiends, Defilers, Heldrakes, LoS
No Havocs/Teeth of Khorne, no jump packs
No Terminator Lord, no red butchers/new terminators
No normal Possessed - WE get 2x specific Khorne versions (one of which is "8 Bloodletters in a single marine")
Three generic HQs: Daemon Prince, Master of Executions, and Juggernaut
2x unique HQs: Khârn and "flying Juggernaut SC" (seen "Lord Invocatus" and "Brazen Beasts warlord" mentioned)

This is what came out of the redditor

This would be a completely dog gak release if true.

That is indeed very disappointing.

I find it kind of unbelievable that Chaos Lords would not be in the codex, as there are numerous World Eaters Chaos Lords in the fluff.

Brazen Beasts is also a weird one for a legion codex when they've usually gone out of their way to try and separate the Renegades from the Legions.

Its would be insane to release them without their own Terminators.
Especially as the Warhammer plus free model was one to get people hyped for the book.

Sorry guys you can't use your free model with the actual army as we didn't make any more Terminators to put him with.

 dan2026 wrote:
Its would be insane to release them without their own Terminators.
Especially as the Warhammer plus free model was one to get people hyped for the book.

Sorry guys you can't use your free model with the actual army as we didn't make any more Terminators to put him with.

I doubt it was just to hype a codex, but to use a piece of iconic art.

I'd expect the model to come with Legends rules, just like the Warhammer World Command Tanks do.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Release is more TS than DG in size
WE keep Helbrutes, LRs, Preds, Forgefiends, Defilers, Heldrakes, LoS
No Havocs/Teeth of Khorne, no jump packs
No Terminator Lord, no red butchers/new terminators
No normal Possessed - WE get 2x specific Khorne versions (one of which is "8 Bloodletters in a single marine")
Three generic HQs: Daemon Prince, Master of Executions, and Juggernaut
2x unique HQs: Khârn and "flying Juggernaut SC" (seen "Lord Invocatus" and "Brazen Beasts warlord" mentioned)

This is what came out of the redditor

Pinch of salt time - based on observations of DG and Thousand Sons, shared units etc.

- Shared units both books have in common with CSM - Daemon Princes, Chaos Cultists, Chaos Rhinos, Chaos Predators, Chaos Land Raiders, Defilers, Helbrutes, Chaos Spawn - I fully expect all of those to be present. However, I am a bit more iffy about the Daemon Engines - Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Heldrakes. The only reason I see them remaining in Thousand Sons was as a nod to the fact that old Thousand Sons armies basically were forced 'thematically' into daemonic possession - that and the Heldrake could be a very cheeky nod to the Doomwing and Firelord from epic.

DG got generic Chaos Lords & Terminator Lords and Terminator Sorcerers. TS got generic Chaos Sorcerers and Terminator Sorcerers - so it wouldn't be far fetched to expect World Eaters to get access to Generic Chaos Lords and Terminator Lords.

The idea of the Master of Executions being ported over is different. It certainly is thematic and at worse it's just another Lord sculpt tbh. If the generic Chaos Lord ISN'T in the book then I'd expect the World Eater Special Lord Type to pretty much have the same options - so basically, you WE Lords now become that new Lord type, minimal fuss. But I'm really expect a cheap Lord and a more expensive premium Lord type - just as DG and TS get with their counterparts.

The lack of Terminators - again, questionable. I don't expect a 100% full port over. But when you look at both TS and DG they have gotten 3.5 Terminator equivalents. The Thousand Sons Terminators are LITERALLY the exact layout you could give 3.5 Rubric Terminators - combi bolter, power weapon, no upgrades. There's 'new' options but a 3.5 Thousand Sons player literally had the new unit if they were allowed to Counts As the staple power weapons as the swords or were willing to just buy a bunch of cheap sword bits and convert.

DG Blightlords are pretty much the same layout as standard CSM Terminators, minus a few options (and annoyingly kit restricted).- they lost mauls and fist weapons. Annoying but the rest is still there. Combi-weapons, the Reaper Autocannon, hell, the Plague Spewer is just a Nurgle Heavy Flamer tbh. Plus, though the loss of mauls and fists is annoying...the most common power weapon in the 3.5 era was the chainaxe arm which was just packed as the generic terminator arm.

So Khorne Terminators aren't that far fetched. The only reason I'd tell people to avoid them for now is in case of a new better looking kit for them. To not have them would be VERY odd as Berserker terminators are always something of a fan favourite. And Red Butchers appear to have become beloved as well - and if they can bring Deathshroud across....

Possessed - eh, as long as the 'second' option just lets you use your current possessed as the new ones, not really a big fuss for me. The 8 daemons in one guy sounds interesting depending on the sculpt - I do hope we get to see some sort of Berserker Hulk/Abomination style for this thing.

I would never have expected Havocs or Raptor equivalents. Again, the 3.5 list for the Mark of Khorne seems to be a solid core to go by here. I don't know if they're intentionally following it or just making a nod....but everything that TS and DG have seems to follow that. The only oddity is DG losing their Havocs - but that was from an era when you could have all special weapon havoc squads.

I'd hope the Dark Apostle or a Khorne version carries across, otherwise an army with zero deny the witch capacity outside of stratagems or a single relic that is entirely reliant on assault is going to get rolled over by, well...almost everything else. Tau don't have any anti-psyker but also are entirely ranged in focus so it's a non issue. Oh, you have to come within X inches? Hope you enjoy my rapid firing there. But without an anti psyker unit or character (and a Khorne Priest would be really thematic for this) - Grey Knights, Tyranids and Daemons are just going to be absolute hell to face. Not to mention SM or other CSM armies chuckling along as well.

 dan2026 wrote:
Its would be insane to release them without their own Terminators.
Especially as the Warhammer plus free model was one to get people hyped for the book.

What's the phrase? Games Workshop never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

chaos0xomega wrote:
GW really like to "tell a narrative" with their sculpts (apparently - they say it all the f*****g time on these streams), if I were to guess the "narrative" here is that the terminator pauldron gives them a little more freedom of movement and mobility with their unarmored arm than the regular power armor pauldron, which is why they swap it out.

You mean the ""narrative"" of pads not magically floating in the air, but locking into the frame around armored shoulder piece of the marine? Specifically so it can move in response of signals from arm to not limit movement? The frame that is not present on bare arm (unless you were to nail said frame into the bicep or something) so logically another, simpler solution (such as oh, I don't know, simpler, flatter pad resting on top of the shoulder) but I guess that's too complicated for complainers that apparently never saw any SM art or read how the power armour is actually supposed to work, eh?

Such dastardliness from GW, actually following their own lore - inconceivable!

Imagine if they put the same effort in the marked legions than they just put on the LoV.

 Arbitrator wrote:
Brazen Beasts is also a weird one for a legion codex when they've usually gone out of their way to try and separate the Renegades from the Legions.

I agree. The Brazen Beasts are not World Eaters, they're the fallen members of the Golden Blades chapter.

The leaker referred to the Lord on Juggernaut character as "Lord Invocatus", who is a World Eaters Lord who fights alongside the Brazen Beasts in the 8e CSM codex. He might have just mixed up the reference and assumed he was from the Brazen Beasts himself

They look very toyish and unthreatening for bloodthirsty chaos marines.

Siegfriedfr wrote:
They look very toyish and unthreatening for bloodthirsty chaos marines.

wat?
They are literally standard upscalled marines. Wtf did you wanted more? MORE gold trims and skulls on every single surface of the mini?

The only problem with thos minies is the frankly awful painjob that looks very, VERY clean, that you could almost could call "cartoonish", but the mini themselves are perfectly fine.

kinda agree with Siegfriedr on that, something about them feels off. Not sure if its the sculpts (would have expected gouges and dents in their armor to highlight their savagery and tendency to prioritize battle over maintenance, etc. Also the degree of chaotic embellishment somehow feels more subdued than that of regular CSM marines - no daemonic eyes or snarling faces tearing through their armor, fewer spikes/tusks/horns, etc. in general just kinda seem like regular marines with some more spikes and anger issues) or if its the paint job (very clean overall, would have expected more blood spatter and weathering/wear, etc.).

Not a big thing really, not something I'd go out of my way to complain about, not something I can't easily fix myself. They just fell a bit short of expectation.

Some battle damage might have been nice, but personally i'm happy they're rather subdued as I'm looking to use them as heresy-ers World Eaters and they'll fit right in with little modification and a change of backpacks.

I think the issue is mainly the paint job. Give em some weathering and blood splatter and I think they'll look at home in either 40k or 30k