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 Peregrine wrote:

 Idolator wrote:
Someone at GW realized two things.

1. Models made by any company can be used to play the game even homemade ones.
2. Rules must come from GW.

Which is funny, because a more sensible person might realize two very different things:

1) Models must be made by someone, and you can't get good models for free.
2) Anyone with an internet connection can pirate your rulebooks.

The obvious thing to do is focus on making money from the models and use high-quality rules, whether or not you make much (or any) money from them, to drive sales of those models. But I guess GW would rather get the short-term profit from selling a few more $50 zero-effort "books".

I despair at this.

Model quality is going downhill, the only think to increase in quality are the plastic sprues themselves, they can fit in a lot and can make big kits and GW has the tooling to build them.
Hence by doing so they think they are acting like genii. However with some exceptions most kits are badly thought out, some are poor additions to the IP for the factions concerned, not fitting in with what the faction does and then have the mess of plastic compounded by a mess of rules often with a twist to make the new models essential for competitive play.

As for the rulebooks, the edition cycle is sped up and the cost of a new codes has rocketed above and beyond the normal case for GW price hikes. Yes the books are well formatted and artistic, but the quality of text is the same mish mash and the quality of the rules is often piss poor despite decades of experience of how to do it wrong.
My main problem however is that because codexes are so expensive, are liable to replacement without warning and offer next to nothing in terms of value for money it is too tempting just to download the relevant info.

The sure sound like a bunch of badasses in the fluff. BUP the will still runt away in panic like regular guardsmen!

 pretre wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
They are a little pricey, I went to my favourite 20% off place which made it doable. I'm glad there are 5 hellguns in there. I got 4 boxes, and plan to do 2 squads of 10 and use the spares to turn 5 spare cadians into a scion command squad. Steered clear of the wagons.

Much like similar kits, this one promises to offer enough bits to convert quite a few other models to be pretty awesome.

While I do love bitz, that argument would have a lot more impact if GW still sold basic infantry boxes at a reasonable price, but the way we're going soon every bloody box will be five blokes and acres of unusable extras. Sell these alongside a box of 20 plastic Cadians for £20, and this kit gains value by osmosis, as it stands it's barely justifiable at 20% off, nevermind full price.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hmm... Imperial Fleet rather than Imperial Navy. Is that new?

The Navy is part of the Fleet, which also encompasses to some degree all other interstellar space traffic in the Imperium except for the Rogue Traders, Mechanicus, and Inquisitorial Black Ships.

They're splitting storm troopers off into distinct regiments now?

Awww, man...

Don't know if this has been mentioned but in this weeks WD you can read the following about the Taurox:
"Left: The Taurox is armed with a twin-linked autocannon that can be mounted on the sides of the hull or on a small turret."

Now why would you ever mount the guns on the sides of the hull (which is dumb by itself as if you look at the vehicle from the front it would actually hit the vehicle slightly) when you can make them turret mounted?

Does this mean for the Prime that I can have 2 weapons on the turret? or is the Prime limited to having them on the side of the hull?

It's not IG... they are a specific unit of IG. IG is IG...

From what I can tell, the Prime gets guns on the side and a turret, or guns on the side and that missile rack. The vanilla version either gets buns on the side or a turret. The guns on the side look super herpy-derpy (and can only fire straight ahead, and only at large targets or squads) so I'd just stick with the turret.

 Kelly502 wrote:
IG is IG...

Unless they're AM.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Unless they're AM.

Adeptus Mechanicus?

Give the widespread use of the new and completely unwelcome 'Astra Militarum' in the fluff sections posted above it seems that the name change may be far more pervasive than I originally feared. Why do you do it GW, Why?

HBMC please stop this madness infecting Only War!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 SJM wrote:
I guess you could save some money and buy the earlier design - lol

Funny I had that kit in my closet for years to turn into an IG truck. Finally threw it out a year or two ago.

Just for the record: The quads were all unarmoured despite the look.

Hmmm, 35bucks for 5 soldiers? 7bucks a model once done, no matter what style you make them.

Oh the releases talk about the stormtroopers as Ordo Tempestus apart from the IG which GW schlubs are renaming Astra Militarum, the fact that they already have FW making AM kits as in Adeptus Mechanicus, did they even bother considering how dumb the new name will sound, and how confucing it will be that they have 2 separate forces using the same acronym of A.M.????

The new stormtroopers look pretty good.

The truck still looks unbelievably bad no matter what configuration it's in. Will probably get a cheap one on ebay at some point to make into a battlewagon.

 Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
Honestly there are some real boneheads in GW, changing IG to Astra Militarum...

Games Workshop's head of Marketing.

People take the mick out of the Land Raiders side guns when they're put further back. But at least they can rotate 90 degrees to theoretically give some covering fire to people exiting out the side hatches.

The Taurox doesn't even have that excuse.

As far as the taurox goes it's defiantly getting wheels when/if I get my hands on one, and side sponsons as well. The stormies fit well with my guard's medieval asthetic already so I'll need mininal kitbashing, maybe cloaks or a few WHFB bits. The thing that confused me is the "preorder" for the HWT. Price hike and spliting them into single packages because GW thinks we won't notice it then?

 Ir0njack wrote:
The thing that confused me is the "preorder" for the HWT. Price hike and spliting them into single packages because GW thinks we won't notice it then?

Of course. Why sell 3 for $30 when you can sell one for $15?

 Orlanth wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Idolator wrote:
Someone at GW realized two things.

1. Models made by any company can be used to play the game even homemade ones.
2. Rules must come from GW.

Which is funny, because a more sensible person might realize two very different things:

1) Models must be made by someone, and you can't get good models for free.
2) Anyone with an internet connection can pirate your rulebooks.

The obvious thing to do is focus on making money from the models and use high-quality rules, whether or not you make much (or any) money from them, to drive sales of those models. But I guess GW would rather get the short-term profit from selling a few more $50 zero-effort "books".

I despair at this.

Model quality is going downhill, the only think to increase in quality are the plastic sprues themselves, they can fit in a lot and can make big kits and GW has the tooling to build them.
Hence by doing so they think they are acting like genii. However with some exceptions most kits are badly thought out, some are poor additions to the IP for the factions concerned, not fitting in with what the faction does and then have the mess of plastic compounded by a mess of rules often with a twist to make the new models essential for competitive play.

As for the rulebooks, the edition cycle is sped up and the cost of a new codes has rocketed above and beyond the normal case for GW price hikes. Yes the books are well formatted and artistic, but the quality of text is the same mish mash and the quality of the rules is often piss poor despite decades of experience of how to do it wrong.
My main problem however is that because codexes are so expensive, are liable to replacement without warning and offer next to nothing in terms of value for money it is too tempting just to download the relevant info.

There is another business model out there that another company has used instead to generate steady and consistent growth. They have really solid rules, models that aren't always the best, but are often better than GW. They release small amounts for all factions. They provide a lot of support to generate a quality competitive scene, which in turn allows them to require their models to be used on said scene therefore limiting the use of second party models. Did I mention that they're not money grubbing bastards beholden to investors that don't care about the product?

 Leprousy wrote:
There is another business model out there that another company has used instead to generate steady and consistent growth. They have really solid rules, models that aren't always the best, but are often better than GW. They release small amounts for all factions. They provide a lot of support to generate a quality competitive scene, which in turn allows them to require their models to be used on said scene therefore limiting the use of second party models. Did I mention that they're not money grubbing bastards beholden to investors that don't care about the product?

I can see a few worms trying to wriggle their way out of that can you're opening. I suggest you shut it before they escape.

Does anyone else find the basic equipment on the Scions weird to the point of it being a mistake in the WD rules?

Everybody: Carapace Armor, Hotshot Lasgun
-Okay, nothing weird here

Tempestus Scions only: Hotshot Laspistol
-Soooo regular dudes get a pistol, but the squad leader doesn't? This goes against every trend in 40k ever that I'm aware of.

Tempestor only: Close combat weapon, Frag & Krak grenades
-WTF? First he trades a pistol for a sword (serious downgrade), then he's the only one carrying the squad's grenades? That's the daftest thing in the whole rules list. When has there ever been grenade options ONLY on the squad leader?

I'm pretty sure the laspistol and lasgun options were just an unintentional swap, as the Tempestor is later given the option to swap out his pistol for something else. Grenades on just one guy, though. This is just weird.

Either way, my old super-cool bolter/plasma pistol armed Stormtrooper Sergeant is no longer legal.

Basically you're reading it wrong because of the way the text wraps around from line to line. The troopers have hot shot lasguns, the sgt has pistol and ccw, they all have grenades. Honestly, no offence but I am not sure why you would jump to your conclusion like that - they are essentially the same as every other IG type squad.

 Peregrine wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
But here in the real world, where there is government enforced monopolies over the distribution of copyrighted content and you have a de facto sole legitimate distributor on the marketplace, yeah, gouging exists. Stop being a Randroid and look at the actual government system we have rather than your textbook capitalist fantasy world, please. We live under a mixed economic system, and believe it or not, the government is a party to every legitimate transaction.

No, gouging is not relevant here. Gouging applies only to essential goods and services, and there is no plausible definition of "essential" that includes toys like GW produces. Gouging is selling $1 bottles of water for $100 in the aftermath of a natural disaster that shut down the entire city's water supply, not charging more than you want to pay for a toy.

As far as I'm aware, gouging simply refers to charging a price higher than is considered fair. The term doesn't have to refer to essential goods, but price gouging on essential goods is illegal in many places and often the thing people are referring to when they say "gouging".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Leprousy wrote:
There is another business model out there that another company has used instead to generate steady and consistent growth. They have really solid rules, models that aren't always the best, but are often better than GW. They release small amounts for all factions. They provide a lot of support to generate a quality competitive scene, which in turn allows them to require their models to be used on said scene therefore limiting the use of second party models. Did I mention that they're not money grubbing bastards beholden to investors that don't care about the product?

I can see a few worms trying to wriggle their way out of that can you're opening. I suggest you shut it before they escape.

Good point. Merely trying to point out that GWs reasoning isn't only flawed, as was being discussed, but is built on a faulty foundation. The other company isn't perfect, and isn't the only workable business model, but it is a solid one. Honestly if GW took the money they spend on unnecessary lawsuits, and put towards game design, and supporting a competitive scene they could solve two problems at once: Make the game balanced, and encourage the use of GW models.

I say this as a painter that doesn't compete, but we have all witnessed what a grassroots community oriented campaign to create a supported scene can do. I keep coming back to this thread in the hopes that I'll be inspired to restart my IG force, but I think I'm to the point of selling/trading it. Any body need an army that's painted well above tabletop quality?

 shasolenzabi wrote:
Hmmm, 35bucks for 5 soldiers? 7bucks a model once done, no matter what style you make them.

Oh the releases talk about the stormtroopers as Ordo Tempestus apart from the IG which GW schlubs are renaming Astra Militarum, the fact that they already have FW making AM kits as in Adeptus Mechanicus, did they even bother considering how dumb the new name will sound, and how confucing it will be that they have 2 separate forces using the same acronym of A.M.????

we can refer to them as AMil and AMech.

Biophysical wrote:
Does anyone else find the basic equipment on the Scions weird to the point of it being a mistake in the WD rules?

Everybody: Carapace Armor, Hotshot Lasgun
-Okay, nothing weird here

Tempestus Scions only: Hotshot Laspistol
-Soooo regular dudes get a pistol, but the squad leader doesn't? This goes against every trend in 40k ever that I'm aware of.

Tempestor only: Close combat weapon, Frag & Krak grenades
-WTF? First he trades a pistol for a sword (serious downgrade), then he's the only one carrying the squad's grenades? That's the daftest thing in the whole rules list. When has there ever been grenade options ONLY on the squad leader?

I'm pretty sure the laspistol and lasgun options were just an unintentional swap, as the Tempestor is later given the option to swap out his pistol for something else. Grenades on just one guy, though. This is just weird.

Either way, my old super-cool bolter/plasma pistol armed Stormtrooper Sergeant is no longer legal.

I think that the (this model only) bits are meant to be after the wargear name.

So it should be read as:

Carapace Armour
Hotshot Lasgun (Tempestus Scions only)
Hotshot Laspistol (Tempestor only)
Close Combat Weapon
Frag and Krak Grenades

Biophysical wrote:
Does anyone else find the basic equipment on the Scions weird to the point of it being a mistake in the WD rules?

Everybody: Carapace Armor, Hotshot Lasgun
-Okay, nothing weird here

Tempestus Scions only: Hotshot Laspistol
-Soooo regular dudes get a pistol, but the squad leader doesn't? This goes against every trend in 40k ever that I'm aware of.

Tempestor only: Close combat weapon, Frag & Krak grenades
-WTF? First he trades a pistol for a sword (serious downgrade), then he's the only one carrying the squad's grenades? That's the daftest thing in the whole rules list. When has there ever been grenade options ONLY on the squad leader?

I'm pretty sure the laspistol and lasgun options were just an unintentional swap, as the Tempestor is later given the option to swap out his pistol for something else. Grenades on just one guy, though. This is just weird.

Either way, my old super-cool bolter/plasma pistol armed Stormtrooper Sergeant is no longer legal.

The Tempestor has a Hotshot laspistol, and everyone does have grenades.

Read the entry carefully.

Thanks to everybody who pointed out the text wrapping issues. It makes much more sense that way. I'm not sure why I didn't see that.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Biophysical wrote:
Does anyone else find the basic equipment on the Scions weird to the point of it being a mistake in the WD rules?

Everybody: Carapace Armor, Hotshot Lasgun
-Okay, nothing weird here

Tempestus Scions only: Hotshot Laspistol
-Soooo regular dudes get a pistol, but the squad leader doesn't? This goes against every trend in 40k ever that I'm aware of.

Tempestor only: Close combat weapon, Frag & Krak grenades
-WTF? First he trades a pistol for a sword (serious downgrade), then he's the only one carrying the squad's grenades? That's the daftest thing in the whole rules list. When has there ever been grenade options ONLY on the squad leader?

I'm pretty sure the laspistol and lasgun options were just an unintentional swap, as the Tempestor is later given the option to swap out his pistol for something else. Grenades on just one guy, though. This is just weird.

Either way, my old super-cool bolter/plasma pistol armed Stormtrooper Sergeant is no longer legal.

The Tempestor has a Hotshot laspistol, and everyone does have grenades.

Read the entry carefully.

Notice the placement of commas. Although the way they laid this out is silly, they should have made new lines for each entry. Even i could do that.

Biophysical wrote:
Thanks to everybody who pointed out the text wrapping issues. It makes much more sense that way. I'm not sure why I didn't see that.

Yeah, the wall-of-text format they use for wargear can get confusing. Fine if everyone is the same unit type with the same gear (like necrons).
Not so fine for more complex units.

I see that GW is still stubbornly refusing to give IG Sgts their lasguns back.

Ah, but these are Scions, not Imperial Guard

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Biophysical wrote:
Thanks to everybody who pointed out the text wrapping issues. It makes much more sense that way. I'm not sure why I didn't see that.

Yeah, the wall-of-text format they use for wargear can get confusing. Fine if everyone is the same unit type with the same gear (like necrons).
Not so fine for more complex units.

It's not confusing when you look at the Tempestor's upgrade options.