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Just out of curiosity who's using a regular mortis dread over a contemptor mortis, deredeo or leviathan?

I like Dorito and Levi’s the best but Mortis a good unit for the points.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Also, as soon as the mortis moves, it shoots at the same BS as the tarantula.

thats not really true though, is it? The dread is moving because it can’t see the thing it wants dead. The tarantula might have the same BS as the dread at this point, but as it can’t see the target, who cares?

A quad hvy Boyer mortis costs about a third of the price of a leviathan. There’s not a lot of point comparing them.

I’d say that the mortis has kind of respectable firepower for its price. It makes for an ok pick if you find yourself with an odd number of points to fill. I’m sure that if I had one in my fists army it would do ok.

I quite like the option of using the index weapons to have a dread with twin autocannon and twin hvy bolter. It’s a fair bit more expensive than the quad bolter mortis though.

I really don’t like tarantulas though. They feel like easy kill points, and like they’ll spend their brief lives firing at the wrong stuff.

Mandragola wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Also, as soon as the mortis moves, it shoots at the same BS as the tarantula.

thats not really true though, is it? The dread is moving because it can’t see the thing it wants dead. The tarantula might have the same BS as the dread at this point, but as it can’t see the target, who cares?

A quad hvy Boyer mortis costs about a third of the price of a leviathan. There’s not a lot of point comparing them.

I’d say that the mortis has kind of respectable firepower for its price. It makes for an ok pick if you find yourself with an odd number of points to fill. I’m sure that if I had one in my fists army it would do ok.

I quite like the option of using the index weapons to have a dread with twin autocannon and twin hvy bolter. It’s a fair bit more expensive than the quad bolter mortis though.

I really don’t like tarantulas though. They feel like easy kill points, and like they’ll spend their brief lives firing at the wrong stuff.

What's not true about it? If a selling point of the mortis is that it can move and has higher BS, but that if it moves it's the same BS as the tarantula, then that is an important point. It's still obviously better than being immobile, just like being T7 3+ is better than T5 4+.

Still, I've used tarantulas in dozens of games and never really had an issue with them being immobile. In fact, they almost never even get shot at, just because they're such a low threat target. Sometimes they get charged, but not usually.

I take them because I run a BT brigade and need the CP to offset the cost of a chapter master. I don't think they are, in a vacuum, particularly great. But they're definitely one of our best FA slots (Scout Bikes are probably our best), and are definitely our cheapest.

"I take them because I run a BT brigade and need the CP to offset the cost of a chapter master. I don't think they are, in a vacuum, particularly great. But they're definitely one of our best FA slots (Scout Bikes are probably our best), and are definitely our cheapest." Agreed, they're definitely the best option for what you're describing. They're not bad.

It's just that a very average unit competes with and beats them in most ways. Slayer, what's your problem with Wisdom of the Ancients strat, out of interest? Why does it make you laugh out loud? 6" reroll bubble is very handy on dakka dreads & castles if you have to lose captain coverage.

Wisdom Of The Ancients is ridiculously redundant. You're already gonna have enough rerolls from any Captains you're running, and then Ultramarines have a Strategem basically doing the same thing.

Any other codex besides Marines would be able to do something with an additional reroll bubble. With Marines, you already built around it and if your army is THAT broken up you're already losing most likely.

Wisdom of the Ancients is great, IMO. The UM Stratagem only affects one unit (gives no bubble), and captains are often elsewhere.

Ven Dreadnoughts with Wisdom is a dope combo. Amusingly the TL-Lascannon + Missile Launcher is cheaper than a Dred with TL-Lascannon and CCweapon, and they make a decent castle esp. with 2+ to hit rerolling 1s.

I like having the option for wisdom of the ancients. My captain has an occasional tendency to get himself killed, often after/during bashing things with the fist of vengeance. Having someone else who can produce a bubble effect for my hellblasters is very useful indeed.

I wouldn't say it's at the forefront of my mind when I include my leviathan or deredeo, but it's definitely a nice ability to have.

I was playing a casual game this weekend and realized SM have several psy powers that inflict MW... they must think they stink.

Too bad librarians are a terrible value.

 Primark G wrote:
I was playing a casual game this weekend and realized SM have several psy powers that inflict MW... they must think they stink.

They get two, with one having an insanely random 3D6 that only hits a unit once in its line rather than models. At least Scourge is okayish?

Scourge is good versus units with lower leadership and a smurf Libby is +1 Ld.

Ive recently started a necron army and found their thread ranking units incredibly helpful. Is there a place where marine units have been ranked?

 THUNDERHAMMER wrote:
Ive recently started a necron army and found their thread ranking units incredibly helpful. Is there a place where marine units have been ranked?

There's a wee bit too much skub around here to do that. Mostly we agree on what to do with Necrons but trust me when I say these Marines threads are a whole different animal.

 THUNDERHAMMER wrote:
Ive recently started a necron army and found their thread ranking units incredibly helpful. Is there a place where marine units have been ranked?

I suspect that a number of posters here would argue that every single unit in the codex deserves between a C and an F.

 meleti wrote:

 THUNDERHAMMER wrote:
Ive recently started a necron army and found their thread ranking units incredibly helpful. Is there a place where marine units have been ranked?

I suspect that a number of posters here would argue that every single unit in the codex deserves between a C and an F.

I suspect it might just be one poster.

Starts with an "M".

Nope. Guess again.

Mmmm, that passive aggressive sniping looks so good on folks

There are definitely B units in the codex. Problem is that none of them are based on the marine statline.

I feel the biggest problem is that they gave Codex Marines a whole bunch of gimmicks that dont synergize with the army as a whole.

In fact, I think that's the real problem with space marines. There is no real synergy in the army aside from take a captain get rerolls. Most Chapter Tactics do nothing to promote an overall army synergy. The "good" ones are those that mesh well with captains. When was the last time you saw someone field a chaplain seriously? What would you do to get your CT on your tanks? Or get something other than 6+FNP?

I tried fielding a Chaplain in my last game. He was a disappointment. Captain plus a LT would have done much the same, and more. For more points admittedly, but the Chaplain just felt useless in that game.

Chaplain dreadnaughts are really good now you might want to try one - I agree Chaplains aren’t very competitive.

StarHunter25 wrote:
I feel the biggest problem is that they gave Codex Marines a whole bunch of gimmicks that dont synergize with the army as a whole.

In fact, I think that's the real problem with space marines. There is no real synergy in the army aside from take a captain get rerolls. Most Chapter Tactics do nothing to promote an overall army synergy. The "good" ones are those that mesh well with captains. When was the last time you saw someone field a chaplain seriously? What would you do to get your CT on your tanks? Or get something other than 6+FNP?

I ran a chaplain for a while in a double battalion when I was still getting used to morale. But because I play UM, the Ld bonus didn't matter much. I did get off some crucial counter charges with him from time to time, but overall meh. His wargear options are restricted and I don't use anything that would benefit much from his re-rolls. I'd prefer a Chaplain over a second Captain, but . . .

The primaris chaplain benefits from having an actually-ok melee weapon and a 4++. I think it’s not inconceivable that you could find a use for him. He would do decent work in cc, so in a double battalion you could probably make use of him.

But yeah, he’s obviously way less good than a captain. If he let you reroll those 3s to hit for power fists it would help.

I sometimes use a powerfist chaplain with a unit of powerfist vanguards (striking from the shadows with jumppacks). His melee reroll offsets the -1 to hit of the fists, and fists are cheap, so it's a discount version of the Shrike + Thunderhammers unit.

But Shrike, or any chapter master, brings more versatility for not that much more cost.

In all honesty I really want to like the unit, but it leaves me with a nice try, but try harder next time. Now if a chaplin gave +1 to hit or +1A they would be auto include.
But right now like much of the codex it looks OK at first pass but when you start trying to make it work its just not quite right and doesn't synch up.

 Primark G wrote:
Chaplain dreadnaughts are really good now you might want to try one - I agree Chaplains aren’t very competitive.

I'm not opposed to buying FW at some point, but it would be a hefty investment for me. The Chaplain Dread, just like the Sicaran and Leviathan I want, are going on the list of stuff I hope to get "eventually"

Chaplains are melee HQs that suck in melee. 3 attacks just don't exactly seal the deal for me.

 SputnikDX wrote:
Chaplains are melee HQs that suck in melee. 3 attacks just don't exactly seal the deal for me.

They used to be coolish as Iron Hands. Now you can't stack the Tactic OR the Warlord Trait so...