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I know alot of folks here don't like trudging through the Warseer rumors threads, but I came across some very interesting info the other day in the Fantasy rumors board that, if true, could mean a big change for the direction GW has been going for quite some time.

Here is the various info from several different people in the Warseer thread.

Drifter00 wrote:So I heard from an employee that GW is planning to spend more time now on the actual models they release (it's showing so far imo, great models for both 40k and fantasy recently) and less time on the actual books.

I don't know if this means they will release less codices per year but I hope not. Newayz take this with a grain of salt as usual but the rumour that they are spending more time on the models they release is pretty evident already.

steppingonyou wrote:a little birdy told me that the folks at GW hear your crys. they saw this coming about. oh. 14 months ago. if your gonna start ANY army, i would do so at anytime. HUGE changes coming. in regards to models, books. and (im gonna break one of my rules here) management, pricing and release schedule. i cant give details. that would be tantamount to inside trading. as a hobbyist im very happy right now

In regards to to a member calling steppingonyou's comments vague:

Harry wrote:It is vague ... but no less vague than I have been about this ... and no less interesting. I have been saying for months that folks should expect things to be done a little differently in the future. Don't expect them to continue to plod through the army books one by one anymore.

Although I have no idea what is meant by the inside trading comment?

Anyway, it's certainly interesting info, if true. I'm honestly pretty excited about the possibility of GW changing the current business model that clearly aggravates alot of people. So really a change - any sort of change - would be welcome by me. What do you guys think? Could GW actually have started listening to the fan-base and could that mean a more progressive GW in the coming months?

If they switch to something along all at once codex releases, I would guess the fanbase would support it. However, if the new Codexes looked like the 4E Chaos Codex (Ie. crap, less variety, less interesting things) then I'd say the backlash will be bad.

*Crosses Fingers for frequently updated online codex and new races*

My guess (only an uneducated guess), is that they are going to accelerate the pace of releases (can only be a good thing), and release multiple codecies/books simultaneously.

The alternative, is that the adopt the Privateer Press model and release new units and models via White Dwaf, etc. This is supported by the rules for the Eldar Nightspinner appearing in WD.

All at once releases would definitely be a good move if they could figure out the timing. It would eliminate the codex creep we all know and hate.

My cynicism alarm just went off.

Spend more time focusing on models and not books? Well duh! It's not like they make a lot of money from the books. Lets time (and therefore effort) on books will allow them to have a smaller staff or writers, and just release MOAR!!! models.

H.B.M.C. wrote:My cynicism alarm just went off.

Spend more time focusing on models and not books? Well duh! It's not like they make a lot of money from the books. Lets time (and therefore effort) on books will allow them to have a smaller staff or writers, and just release MOAR!!! models.

Would that be such a bad thing though? Provided they keep up with the FAQs like they've been doing so far with WHFB8...

I say it's fantastic, if that's how it goes.

Kanluwen wrote:I say it's fantastic...

Of course you do...

2nd waves out faster? I'll take that.

Books not coming out quite as fast? UGH.

Books coming out all at once? Time will tell. Gigantically rushed cluster-gak of mistakes? I hope not.

the only change GW will make according to their stock report is that they'll finally begin charging us what the plastics are worth... because up until now according to them they've been cutting us a break with pricing. *HBMC, you may want to turn off your cynicism alarm for this post*

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I say it's fantastic...

Of course you do...

And of course you try with a "GW Apologist" implication.

Jeez Pops, you need to get some better material. But are you really going to sit there and tell me that this "new" method that we've seen so far of the FAQs being revised when an issue arises isn't worth them holding off on books a bit longer?

I feel like a large, single release of all the books would cut down on having basically tiers of armies since the trend seems to indicate newer codices being more powerful than older ones.

tallshortguy wrote:I feel like a large, single release of all the books would cut down on having basically tiers of armies since the trend seems to indicate newer codices being more powerful than older ones.

it won't cut back on power creep but will at least creep armies along at the same pace if they all get updates at the same time. i don't see this happening, though. they did this in 3rd edition (made all the old codicies invalid) and i recall GW saying they wouldn't do that again. can they change their mind? sure. do i think it's likely? no. in the unlikely event it would happen, i'd say it would be in conjunction with a new edition of 40k/fantasy which isn't happening anytime soon (fantasy JUST got replaced and 40k 5e is only 2 years old).

Maybe all the codex updates will occur in 5th edition, and no more intraweb printouts for DE players for their update from the Bush administration...

Power creep is a powerful marketing tool for selling armies of new little plastic toys to people who already have lots of little plastic toys. I really, really can't see GW doing anything to address power creep.

Now, if the managers had good heads on their shoulders, they might begin crowdsourcing the rules. Hell, even just letting volunteers do the proofreading and playtesting would be great savings in development, no doubt. It would require a lot more transparency and resignation to the inevitability of leaks. But a smart manager would already be there.

Looking forward to seeing what this is all about.

Slackermagee wrote:2nd waves out faster? I'll take that.

There's been alot of speculation, and whether it's correct or not who knows, that the 2nd wave system of models releases may be out the window. Instead there would be more creative freedom allowing the sculptors to create one-off units that would be released as they are finished. It seems fairly logical that if a product is ready for mass production, you don't keep in under wraps for an extended period of time just waiting for a 2nd wave for an army.

Look at the new Daemon Prince as a prime example. That sculpt, which is still OK in my opinion, would have been a great single release 2 years ago when it was ready. Instead they held back 2 years to lump it in a daemon 2nd wave and there's lackluster enthusiasm for a model that now shows it's age in terms of the progress GW has made with quality of it's plastic kits. That kit would have flown off the shelves 2 years ago when CSMs where still a rather new army. At this point I'm sure it will still sell in volume, but I doubt as well as it would have a few years back.

From a business standpoint it makes no sense to hold off on offering a product to the customers just to have a larger release to entice more sales. Surely someone at GW has to have made a case for this at some point. Whether or not these rumors indicate that this is in fact the case remains to be seen - but I'm cautiously optimistic.

Savnock wrote: Now, if the managers had good heads on their shoulders, they might begin crowdsourcing the rules. Hell, even just letting volunteers do the proofreading and playtesting would be great savings in development, no doubt.

Check this out if you haven't seen it. I found it to be a really interesting and informative read.

If anything, I think GW's been secretly formulating it's long awaited response to other companies like Privateer and Mantic. Privateer was always a competitor, but Mantic's obvious rise in popularity a couple of months back sent a wake up call to GW. Now I'm not saying they're gonna be better or worse, but I'll bet these changes are in response to the constant whining they get from gamers and as a response to the successes of rival companies.

The idea of "devoting more time to the models" doesn't exactly make sense, but it could be explained by misuse of language. It's not like GW has a fixed staff size, and they have to decide each day if they're going to make models or write books. In reality, they have people who do art, people who do models, people who do the books, etc. etc. They can always hire more... So it's really just a matter of money. If that's what the rumor mill REALLY means, that they'll be focusing their investment on the models, I suppose that's possible...

But consider the situation. GW could easily hire enough people to have a full team dedicated to each army. If they can make one Codex in (say) 4 months, they can hire more people and make them all in 4 months. Not a good business model, but they can do it.

As Savnock points out, it's a GREAT marketing strategy to creep each Codex a little more over the last. You'll even notice that the creep emphasizes new models. Tyranids used to be all about Bugzilla. Now Carnifexes suck, Gaunts are better, and all the big bugs that are good are also new models...

Now, if the managers had good heads on their shoulders, they might begin crowdsourcing the rules. Hell, even just letting volunteers do the proofreading and playtesting would be great savings in development, no doubt.

The rules are a CRITICAL part of the success of the models. If the rules are poor, the models won't sell as well.

So, realistically, what does it cost to make these rules? It's no more than 4-5 designers at the core of it. What does it cost to pay 4-5 people? Not a lot. Half a million dollars a year, maybe? It's simply not enough money to take risks to save, when the company is making $200 million a year. It's 1/400th of the total budget.

Privateer was always a competitor, but Mantic's obvious rise in popularity a couple of months back sent a wake up call to GW.

I don't see this right now. What's Mantic got? Maybe 1/5th of 3 armies done? They're interesting, but I don't see them being the big deal that others do. Their models aren't on the same level as PP/GW, and there aren't enough of them. The only noteworthy bit is their prices, which are much lower than PP/GW.

Something is prolly going to change. Mantic is going to be crawling all over the market in the next few months. From what I've seen in the videos on BoW, they've got their ducks in a row and are set for one hella cool release.

I concur with HBMC. My cynicism is at a rolling boil with this news, and I don't see them spending a moment of time caring a whit about codexes, rules balance or anything not directly involved with selling toy soldiers. The Eldar Night Spinner rules in WD were just a condescending trick to bolster sales of a new kit, just like the Spearhead rules. Don't fall for it!!!

chaos0xomega wrote:My guess (only an uneducated guess), is that they are going to accelerate the pace of releases (can only be a good thing), and release multiple codecies/books simultaneously.

The alternative, is that the adopt the Privateer Press model and release new units and models via White Dwaf, etc. This is supported by the rules for the Eldar Nightspinner appearing in WD.

All at once releases would definitely be a good move if they could figure out the timing. It would eliminate the codex creep we all know and hate.

I hope not while pp does it welll I do not think the gw line would work nearly as well as pp's and we would end up walking around with a bunch of leflets and i for one do not want that. While i do like the idea of fast codex releases i don't want fast " we really did nto change much just jacked up the price and put in some fancy art." Book but i will keep my fingers crossed for a bt book if these changes happen I give it a 35% chance of all this happening not to offend anyone.

Cryonicleech wrote:If anything, I think GW's been secretly formulating it's long awaited response to other companies like Privateer and Mantic. Privateer was always a competitor, but Mantic's obvious rise in popularity a couple of months back sent a wake up call to GW. Now I'm not saying they're gonna be better or worse, but I'll bet these changes are in response to the constant whining they get from gamers and as a response to the successes of rival companies.

I agree I find other companys starting to match gws standards and now that i think about it the recent jump is quality was about when pp went to plastic and matic started also on the side mantic undead ftw.

Because of the huge cost of plastic molds, plastic minis have to be in circulation for a long time to make back their expense. This means that if GW makes a great plastic kit that can interface with lots of other plastic kits and get lots of use, it's a great investment. But if they make a disappointing plastic kit, we're stuck with it for years- possibly decades (old Rhino I'm looking at you). If these rumours mean GW is going to keep working on something until they get it right (as opposed to until it has to be out the door for the big splash) then I'm happy with it.

But I'm skeptical. GW is in a great position to make a change of direction with their new release of Warhammer Fantasy but they also have a long history of squandering opportunities. The real proof won't be to see what's coming in the next 6 months, it will be looking back at what's been done in the last few years. Because the value of wargame minis is not in the quality of a single sculpt, but in the quality of whole lines that open up the possibility of making something better than the individual parts.

JOHIRA wrote:Because of the huge cost of plastic molds, plastic minis have to be in circulation for a long time to make back their expense. This means that if GW makes a great plastic kit that can interface with lots of other plastic kits and get lots of use, it's a great investment. But if they make a disappointing plastic kit, we're stuck with it for years- possibly decades (old Rhino I'm looking at you). If these rumours mean GW is going to keep working on something until they get it right (as opposed to until it has to be out the door for the big splash) then I'm happy with it.

But I'm skeptical. GW is in a great position to make a change of direction with their new release of Warhammer Fantasy but they also have a long history of squandering opportunities. The real proof won't be to see what's coming in the next 6 months, it will be looking back at what's been done in the last few years. Because the value of wargame minis is not in the quality of a single sculpt, but in the quality of whole lines that open up the possibility of making something better than the individual parts.

Quoted for a second happy dose of truth.

ha, and I heard the next 40k army are Protoss.

No really, a friend of a friends, friend told me.

The "big change" has already happened. Most releases this year are not accompanied by a new army book or Codex. We only have 1 army book (Beastmen) and 3 Codices (Tyranids, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar) this year, can't get much less with the 4-year-edition cycle. But the old "one release per army per player generation" policy was plain stupid. Now they do more releases to raise interest in each army two times per player generation One step in the right direction.

I'd be all for an "all in one" book with the codex rules for all the races that was released with each edition and perhaps updated, as long as the price wasn't extraordinary. They could release as much fluff and fiction as they want after that.

So hold on.

Changes are coming, which are only hinted at, in some nebulous form that affects everything that GW is doing and we're going to like it, but they won't tell us what it is.

Why not say something equally valid like "Something is going to happen somewhere, sometime".

I'm not being cynical, I'm being realistic. Give me evidence, proof, and substance, and I'll believe it.

Skarboy wrote:I'd be all for an "all in one" book with the codex rules for all the races that was released with each edition and perhaps updated, as long as the price wasn't extraordinary. They could release as much fluff and fiction as they want after that.

And this is probably closer to the truth, 3 books, 1 main rulebook (Arcana Dominus), 1 codex book (Tomekeeper) and one fluff book (heretical knowledge). with the last 2 having updates in White Dwarf as models are released with a 2-4 yr renewal cycle.

Note: the above is not actual names but merely speculation based on previous rumors

zarathos wrote:

Skarboy wrote:I'd be all for an "all in one" book with the codex rules for all the races that was released with each edition and perhaps updated, as long as the price wasn't extraordinary. They could release as much fluff and fiction as they want after that.

And this is probably closer to the truth, 3 books, 1 main rulebook (Arcana Dominus), 1 codex book (Tomekeeper) and one fluff book (heretical knowledge). with the last 2 having updates in White Dwarf as models are released with a 2-4 yr renewal cycle.

Note: the above is not actual names but merely speculation based on previous rumors

Let's hope not as those are rather... silly.

HUGE changes coming. in regards to models, books. and (im gonna break one of my rules here) management, pricing and release schedule.

Yeah I heard stuff like this over a year ago, too. Heard in fact to forget the "rules" of the past because everything is changing. Also, 2010 was supposed to "blow our minds".

Breaking down the quote above, here are some examples of what we have already seen in the last 1.5 year or so, and speculation about what more may come...

- Models: more plastic, advancing plastic production techniques, plastic for more than just troops (i.e. minotaurs, river trolls). Reboxes to increase $ per model. There is speculation that there are more plastics coming at the end of the year (there were rumors about a huge list of stuff to be released). The discussion about models being released when ready seems plausible.
- Management: US HQ moved to Memphis, Kirby came over to the new US HQ, one man stores with limited hours. Evidently there were huge changes in the layers of middle management, but I don't really care about that. Forgeworld fantasy division in the works.
- Pricing: I think the statement that pricing of plastic will be cranked up to "What its worth" is exactly the direction to expect. More Goldswords, less Dark Elf Cold One Riders ($25 when released, ah, the good old days).
- Release Schedule: This I think is the most interesting. One of the things I find extremely amusing is the insistence that "its a fantasy year" or "40k is next" or "models only come out with the Army Book / Codex". I think those are extrapolations of patterns gleaned from past practices. Those practices have, and will continue to, change.

Some other big changes have occurred... Space Hulk, DH / WH codices online, total Fantasy reboot. Oh and they learned that they can use the rules to push sales of not only more models, but also terrain.

Those were all just the examples off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more...

So the changes will probably be price gouging, a few more model releases and 1 book per year. By the time my Necrons roll around I'll be in a crypt waiting my WBB roll...

My buddy has the inside scoop and what he tells me is models will get better, prices will be higher and the new armies will be much more powerful than the old ones!

And you can take that to the bank!