Big changes ahead for Games Workshop?

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**Sidstyler**

The basis for any business is that people won't keep buying regardless of price, or else you could just charge infinity dollars for your product and get away with it.

I always ask myself why GW hasn't tried that yet. Everyone is always quick to point out that GW is a business and making money is all that matters, so why not charge $1000 for a box of Space Marines?

Hey, we'd buy it! We're all loyal "followers" of GW and we'll buy anything at any price, right guys?!

**karimabuseer**

I sense sarcasm in your post, Sidstyler

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

As to the recession
yes in Britain things picked up.
But that doesn't mean that it's boomtown .

If you listen only to the news headlines you will know that government spending cutbacks are causing job losses.

This is looking likely to return an already depressed economy back into recession.

**oni**

GW is certainly in need of some big changes. I'm forever reading about how poor the company strategy is and how poorly their employees are treated. Most of all the blatent disregard for customers and quality.

And with Alessio gone they're now faced with the growing presence of competition. Necessity fuels invention... GW's asshatery has forced the hands of enthusiasts to create their own game systems and take on the GW juggernaut in the retail battlefield.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW moved all of their production to China. UK taxes are absurdly high and are only going to get worse. I think a majority of the customer base is at a breaking point for pricing. I know I'm getting dangerously close myself.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

Not sure taxes will get worse and they aren't that bad. Maybe relative to the USA they are.

However, much production has been shifted out to China, presumabbly to keep labour costs down.

**gorgon**

A few points.

I think a lot of these changes are things we've *already seen,* as Gymnogyps pointed out on page 1. Have they been earthshattering? No, not really. But then again we're talking about GW, a notoriously inflexible company.

I've read rumors that the DE waves for instance will be only a few months apart. That just kinda makes sense to us, but I can imagine GW seeing it as some kind of breakthrough. One change that I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned is all the recent codex entries without minis (Stormravens, half the Tyranid codex, etc.). Again, doesn't completely alter our hobby as we know it, but for GW it's probably breaking some kind of mental barrier.

Another important point here is that steppingonyou seems to be a little mixed in his accuracy. I'd take him with a grain of salt.

I have no inside knowledge, but I really, really expect that we've already seen many of these changes, and that future changes will continue to be more incremental than monumental.

**zombie**

Sidstyler wrote:I find it hard to imagine prices being any higher than they already are. It's seriously getting to the point where I can't keep up the hobby anymore, I haven't bought anything new at full price since January when Tyranids came out (come to think of it I haven't really bought anything used, either). Which I'm thinking about selling on eBay anyway, due to lack of interest since GW fethed over Tyranids with the FAQ, invalidating an army build and nerfing things that weren't broken. And it took them 6 months to come out with that piece of crap, too...it was just a huge step backward and it's really put me off.

The idea of paying $50 for 3 plastic models, or over $60 for a single plastic tank (which doesn't came anywhere near the same level of quality as other $60+ model kits from other companies like Tamiya) infuriates me. And it's just going to keep going up every year, $2 here, $5 there. Before you know it land raiders will be $80. And the quality of those models hasn't been improving, either. The entire Beastmen release and Daemons second wave (and most of the stuff they got in their initial release actually) is proof enough of that. GW is really hit and miss with their quality lately.

Still be thankful that you are not in Oz with our down under bonus tacked onto the price.

UK prices for some are about 50% cheaper.

GW is just out of my budget when for the price of box of terminators I can get an entire starter army for Firestorm

I have accepted that I am not going to be playing much of warhammer fantasy/40k so now I am just selecting my fav models before planning on selling the rest. I will scan the articles out of the White Dwarf issues I have before trying to flog them off on ebay cheap. Me and Ebay are going to become good friends selling the GW stash I have.

**chaos0xomega**

Arctik_Firangi wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Arctik_Firangi wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Phryxis wrote:All the cynical "price gouging" talk is ignoring GW's most recent round of financial statements. They were profitable this year, and they just paid off a significant amount of debt. They will not need to increase prices in order to remain profitable, so they probably will not do so.

It's tempting to do the whole "they're just greedy idiots" thing, but the fact is GW is making a profit in a luxury product during a major global economic slowdown. If they were greedy idiots, they would not be having that level of success.

Except in those same financial statements the CEO states that they have priced their products lower than their actual value, suggesting more price rises. And they were profitable last year too... in fact, they have been profitable for several years...

Another big (almost 10%) price rise did just happen, not that I care anymore. As said, I don't buy their stuff at RRP since last year's hike, let alone this one. 'Profitable' does not mean making a sustainable profit or having a strong stock index. If they were really pricing their products below their value, then they could not be making any definable profit whatsoever. What they did last financial year is 'priced their products at less than they would like to be able to sell them for', and regardless, they made an overall profit.

Value of a product =/= cost of production. The true value of an object is determined by the price the market has set for it, I.E. - how much money people are willing to purchase it for. When GW says that their product is priced below its value, that means that they feel they are charging less than the amount of money people are willing to pay for the product.

... did I not pretty much say that?

No... errr... maybe.... I dunno, I understood the "if they were really pricing their products below their value then they could not be making any definable profit whatsoever" as an argument that their value was tied to their cost of production

oni wrote:GW is certainly in need of some big changes. I'm forever reading about how poor the company strategy is and how poorly their employees are treated. Most of all the blatent disregard for customers and quality.

And with Alessio gone they're now faced with the growing presence of competition. Necessity fuels invention... GW's asshatery has forced the hands of enthusiasts to create their own game systems and take on the GW juggernaut in the retail battlefield.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW moved all of their production to China. UK taxes are absurdly high and are only going to get worse. I think a majority of the customer base is at a breaking point for pricing. I know I'm getting dangerously close myself.

I know I am. For the first time in 7+ years of playing I'd rather spend money on another game system than GW stuff (Firestorm/Uncharted right now, looking at FoW, as well as historical ACW). I haven't truly bought anything new in over a year, and I actually have a pile of stuff that I'm trying to sell.

**Howard A Treesong**

Sidstyler wrote:I find it hard to imagine prices being any higher than they already are. It's seriously getting to the point where I can't keep up the hobby anymore, I haven't bought anything new at full price since January when Tyranids came out (come to think of it I haven't really bought anything used, either). Which I'm thinking about selling on eBay anyway, due to lack of interest since GW fethed over Tyranids with the FAQ, invalidating an army build and nerfing things that weren't broken. And it took them 6 months to come out with that piece of crap, too...it was just a huge step backward and it's really put me off.

The idea of paying $50 for 3 plastic models, or over $60 for a single plastic tank (which doesn't came anywhere near the same level of quality as other $60+ model kits from other companies like Tamiya) infuriates me. And it's just going to keep going up every year, $2 here, $5 there. Before you know it land raiders will be $80. And the quality of those models hasn't been improving, either. The entire Beastmen release and Daemons second wave (and most of the stuff they got in their initial release actually) is proof enough of that. GW is really hit and miss with their quality lately.

I thought £20 for the regiment boxsets were the ceiling, £20 for a box of 10 Marines. At least you only have to dig out a £20 note, but with them going up again I thought there would be a psychological barrier to sales. People hand over £20 note, fair enough, but having to hand over £30 worth of notes and getting pocket money back, well that starts to bring home the cost, even though the price rise isn't a great deal more than what was being paid before. Either way GW have made rises just as they have in the past and rely heavily on the good will and loyalty of customers as well as newcomers who have little appreciation of costs. That can't last forever, no matter how much people want their GW fix there's an absolute limit to everything. I think it's overly optimistic that many people will turn from GW to other manufacturers, undoubtedly some will but many will just quit the hobby.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

When I start expanding my Dwarves will more than likely be going for Mantic or possibly see if I can pick some GW Dwarves off ebay.

Probably the former because of the boxing strategy they have. No faffing around with stupid in between unit size numbers for a good price.

As I am unlikely to be playing in GW stores or events there won't be any problems.

**chaos0xomega**

Well... there is a benefit to all this... with every price rise, I feel a little bitbetterabout buying Forgeworld stuff...

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

hang on while I swig half a bottle of scotch for that to seem reasonable.

nope, still makes no sense, better polish the bottle off.

AH shee what you meand now!
I love you you're my besht mate Chaosh.

**P4NC4K3**

reds8n wrote:
P4NC4K3 wrote:

Not sure about this, I remember hearing on the news that the recession in Britain was officially over, even if it isn't we are, as you said, on the way out. This makes me optimistic about seeing a few

I wouldn't hold your breath. Basically they assume and work off of a 20% price hike on a product every 4-5 years.

We might, perhaps, see less higher priced box sets like the Great/goldswords, but that's about as good as we'll see, aside from more and more units moving to plastic and saving (YMMV of course) us money that way.

I get the feeling that you're right. I certainly do not want a repeat of the Greatsword situation, those prices are INSANE!

**Slipstream**

The consensus seems to be that they are getting ready to try and make us pay more for the hobby.
I no longer buy new GW stuff,discovered the joys of dettol and second hand stuff.So what if the new models are better?If you I can't afford them now I certainly can't afford them when this big change occurs.
On the question of codexes;do we really need them?Why not drop all that meaningless hobby stuff that they pad out the main rulebook with and instead give individual army rules?Any updates and fixes could be done in WDd.

**chaos0xomega**

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:hang on while I swig half a bottle of scotch for that to seem reasonable.

nope, still makes no sense, better polish the bottle off.

AH shee what you meand now!
I love you you're my besht mate Chaosh.

Makes perfect sense. Every time the price on Citadel plastics goes up, the price gets closer to FWs prices. Eventually it gets to the point that, if I'm going to spend a large sum of money on toy soldiers, I might as well toss an extra 5 bucks in there and get the cooler looking piece from FW.

**Samus_aran115**

If GW rises it's prices more, I'm sure I'll just buy from them anyway. It really doesn't bother me at all. Not sure why people get pissed off all the time. Just buy less and stop feeding your addiction :3

**Ian Sturrock**

I would very happily buy one big book with all the rules for all the armies in, even if it cost more than the current rulebook + 1-2 codexes. Yes, yes, I know, it probably won't happen. But it would make sense to me:

* Balanced rules, with every army balanced against every other, because they were designed with the same philosophy.

* Easy access to *all* the game rules, for competitive & tourney players.

* Separate books on fluff and painting for those more into that.

* More cash available for me to spend on minis because I'm not hunting for eBay bargains for 2nd-hand codexes so I can get rules for armies I don't even play.

Anyway -- meanwhile -- I had been contemplating picking up Warhammer Fantasy, what with the new edition, and the new starter set, but I can't afford it, partly thanks to the recession & partly thanks to the GW price rises, so Mantic is going to get my cash instead. Oh, and I bought lots of minis just before the VAT rise in January, and a few more just before the latest GW price hike, so I have enough to be painting for at least the rest of the year, anyway.

**AlexHolker**

chaos0xomega wrote:Makes perfect sense. Every time the price on Citadel plastics goes up, the price gets closer to FWs prices. Eventually it gets to the point that, if I'm going to spend a large sum of money on toy soldiers, I might as well toss an extra 5 bucks in there and get the cooler looking piece from FW.

GW Rhino through GWAU: $55

Forgeworld Immolator kit: $43

Not supporting GWAU's insane business strategy: Priceless

**chaos0xomega**

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW.......

Am I glad I don't live in Aussie/Kiwi land...

Although... it is very beautiful down there...

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

Only joshing Chaos

knew that you meant it that way

I agree Ian.
The codex/army book for each faction you are collecting is hard enough for me.
No chance for all the others

**Laughing Man**

chaos0xomega wrote:WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW.......

Am I glad I don't live in Aussie/Kiwi land...

Although... it is very beautiful down there...

Yeah, but the wildlife hates you and wants you to die, drop bears are evil, and internet speeds are horrible.

But seriously? FW prices are already cheaper? There is something very wrong about that...

**Alpharius**

OK, seems like we've drifted rather far afield here...

...all done!