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So I have a few questions for gallery users about what sort of moderation they would like to see.

First off anything off-topic or inappropriate is deleted out of hand.
Right now anything blurry has voting disabled.



Would people rather they be deleted out of hand?

What about unpainted, unconverted models?



I see no cause to delete since they may by posted for a sale or to show the start of a project. But I'll be disabling voting on them I think since really there's nothing to evaluate.

Converted unpainted models are different since there's something to evaluate at least.

Other thoughts?

Apologies to Chocolate Gork, I needed examples and his were the first I saw, not singling him out or anything.

Blurry should definitely be disabled, and if they are badly blurred then delete them?

As you say, unconverted unpainted stuff should probably marked as voting disabled.

WIP conversions and paint jobs? Anything that is tagged as WIP may benefit from being voting disabled. Only fully converted and/or painted models should benefit from people being able to vote on them?

Although the difficulty with that is obviously people not tagging their stuff as WIP, or being unable to tell when a conversion is "complete" or not...

I think you are on the right track with your line of thinking to start with KK.

Personally, I would like to see coolness voting on wip pictures, to get an overall idea of how well certain changes are being received.
My two cents at any rate . . .

I wouldn't remove the pictures that are blured outright but disabling the voting is a fair thing to do to them but some people only have a bad camera.

i'd say to delete the blurry/unlit/horrible cell phone pics as they're not doing anyone any good. as for the unconverted ones, i'd leave voting on simply because there may be something in those images (a small conversion patch on one model in a bunch). even with a keen eye, it is possible to miss a greenstuff patch on one model that is pointed out in a thread where the pic is posted.

warboss wrote:i'd say to delete the blurry/unlit/horrible cell phone pics as they're not doing anyone any good. as for the unconverted ones, i'd leave voting on simply because there may be something in those images (a small conversion patch on one model in a bunch). even with a keen eye, it is possible to miss a greenstuff patch on one model that is pointed out in a thread where the pic is posted.

I would expect that most of the cellphone pictures are from our younger members, who don't have access to expensive cameras.

By deleting them you are effectively discriminating against the members who need the most encouragement.

So I'd just disable the voting.

loki old fart wrote:

warboss wrote:i'd say to delete the blurry/unlit/horrible cell phone pics as they're not doing anyone any good. as for the unconverted ones, i'd leave voting on simply because there may be something in those images (a small conversion patch on one model in a bunch). even with a keen eye, it is possible to miss a greenstuff patch on one model that is pointed out in a thread where the pic is posted.

I would expect that most of the cellphone pictures are from our younger members, who don't have access to expensive cameras.

By deleting them you are effectively discriminating against the members who need the most encouragement.

So I'd just disable the voting.

i didn't say deleting ALL cellphone pics, just the "horrible" ones. even younger members with limited money can take the time to try and focus the image by changing the distance to the model and by using free techniques for lighting (like turning on a lamp or photographing against a white sheet of paper). a little effort goes a long way. lets leave the social commentary out of the thread. it's not discriminatory; it's called having minimal standards for posting to the gallery that anyone regardless of age/means can meet with a little bit of effort. personally, i think the gallery is a big draw for dakka as other forums don't have something similar. sure, you can post pics in threads but they're not organized in a gallery-only section in addition that you can peruse for modelling ideas. having only relatively in focus and lit pictures there is a good thing.


kyoto, do you have trouble with the tags on pics when voting? i used to go through the effort but havn't for a while. regardless of what i set the IE setting to, the browser gives me a special message about taging the pics and i have to go through several clicks to finially do it. even when i say to allow it for the site, it still prompts me every time after voting.

With you so far KK.
Agree with loki that blurred should be voting=disabled, but not deleted, and I'd say unconverted & unpainted should have voting disabled too. Although I can see what warboss is saying, I'm not convinced there's much voting going on in those cases, more likely the feedback comes through the thread. Personally I have voted on a few unpainted conversions I've come across, mainly as I see that as encouragemnet to the modellers concerned. Probably not feasible to keep coolness ratings but disable paint in those cases is it?

edit: was referring to ' i'd leave voting on simply because there may be something in those images (a small conversion patch on one model in a bunch). even with a keen eye, it is possible to miss a greenstuff patch on one model that is pointed out in a thread where the pic is posted.' in regards to warboss, he got another post in whilst I was typing

SilverMK2 wrote:

As you say, unconverted unpainted stuff should probably marked as voting disabled.

WIP conversions and paint jobs? Anything that is tagged as WIP may benefit from being voting disabled. Only fully converted and/or painted models should benefit from people being able to vote on them?

Although the difficulty with that is obviously people not tagging their stuff as WIP, or being unable to tell when a conversion is "complete" or not...

Tagging should be encouraged, isn't so hard as you can tag a whole gallery at once.

loki old fart wrote:

warboss wrote:i'd say to delete the blurry/unlit/horrible cell phone pics as they're not doing anyone any good. as for the unconverted ones, i'd leave voting on simply because there may be something in those images (a small conversion patch on one model in a bunch). even with a keen eye, it is possible to miss a greenstuff patch on one model that is pointed out in a thread where the pic is posted.

I would expect that most of the cellphone pictures are from our younger members, who don't have access to expensive cameras.

By deleting them you are effectively discriminating against the members who need the most encouragement.

So I'd just disable the voting.

Blurry should be definately disabled from voting. Maybe guide those posting a lot of blurry pics to a article about photographing minis?



------------------------------------

1) unpainted / converted + unpainted should have painting scores disabled.
2) unconverted + unpainted should have voting disabled
3) partially painted ( basecoated, some details painted, ...) may have painting scores disabled, surely votes should go for completed work.
4) maybe voting should change to enable instead of disable as option when uploading pics?
5) pics may be taken down after discussing it with the poster. ( except misuse of the gallery ).
6) shall I browse my own pics and delete / change settings ? I dont know if I am innocent of untagged or blurry pics.....

warboss wrote:

loki old fart wrote:

warboss wrote:i'd say to delete the blurry/unlit/horrible cell phone pics as they're not doing anyone any good. as for the unconverted ones, i'd leave voting on simply because there may be something in those images (a small conversion patch on one model in a bunch). even with a keen eye, it is possible to miss a greenstuff patch on one model that is pointed out in a thread where the pic is posted.

I would expect that most of the cellphone pictures are from our younger members, who don't have access to expensive cameras.

By deleting them you are effectively discriminating against the members who need the most encouragement.

So I'd just disable the voting.

i didn't say deleting ALL cellphone pics, just the "horrible" ones. even younger members with limited money can take the time to try and focus the image by changing the distance to the model and by using free techniques for lighting (like turning on a lamp or photographing against a white sheet of paper). a little effort goes a long way. lets leave the social commentary out of the thread. it's not discriminatory; it's called having minimal standards for posting to the gallery that anyone regardless of age/means can meet with a little bit of effort. personally, i think the gallery is a big draw for dakka as other forums don't have something similar. sure, you can post pics in threads but they're not organized in a gallery-only section in addition that you can peruse for modelling ideas. having only relatively in focus and lit pictures there is a good thing.


kyoto, do you have trouble with the tags on pics when voting? i used to go through the effort but havn't for a while. regardless of what i set the IE setting to, the browser gives me a special message about taging the pics and i have to go through several clicks to finially do it. even when i say to allow it for the site, it still prompts me every time after voting.

I understand your point, and I can't say I dont agree with you.
But by deleting someones pics, your effectively saying there not good enough to post, (Maybe despite the posters best efforts).
Some of the younger members may be put off by this and give up trying to paint, or maybe the hobby altogether.

Get rid of any burry pictures. Get rid of any pictures of unpainted, unconverted models 1 week after their uploaded. If its for a trade, they should have been traded by then, or their buried on page 2 and beyond in the trade forum.

loki old fart wrote:
I understand your point, and I can't say I dont agree with you.
But by deleting someones pics, your effectively saying there not good enough to post, (Maybe despite the posters best efforts).
Some of the younger members may be put off by this and give up trying to paint, or maybe the hobby altogether.

if the pics aren't in focus and have bad lighting, then they're not good enough to post in a gallery IMO. if nothing in the image is in focus and the owner doesn't go through the effort of flipping on a light switch, then their "best" efforts aren't good enough to upload because they're not actually trying. do we allow people to post messages on this forum using text speak only combined with bad grammar and horrible spelling? **lolz, thtatz awsome!!! i'm so 1337, hurr!** in actuality we don't. when someone does, the post either gets deleted or the poster is corrected (rudely if they continue to do so despite corrections). are we discriminitating against those with bad grammar and no sense of reading comprehension? (also, incidentally, younger people). do they quit the hobby because of it? my pictures are certainly not perfect and my post will never be considered great literary works (hell, i rarely even capitalize) but i try to post pics/messages that are worth reading/seeing. maybe i'm just too old school but i hold others to the same standard. either way, it seems like the general consensus here is to not delete them but to only disable voting on them so it won't matter much.

if the pics aren't in focus and have bad lighting, then they're not good enough to post in a gallery IMO. if nothing in the image is in focus and the owner doesn't go through the effort of flipping on a light switch, then their "best" efforts aren't good enough to upload because they're not actually trying.

How can you tell the difference between lack of effort, and lack of experience?.

do we allow people to post messages on this forum using text speak only combined with bad grammar and horrible spelling? **lolz, thtatz awsome!!! i'm so 1337, hurr!** in actuality we don't. when someone does, the post either gets deleted or the poster is corrected (rudely if they continue to do so despite corrections). are we discriminitating against those with bad grammar and no sense of reading comprehension? (also, incidentally, younger people). do they quit the hobby because of it? my pictures are certainly not perfect and my post will never be considered great literary works (hell, i rarely even capitalize)

Yes I noticed

People choose to post via text speak. Some people won't post on forums, because their embarrassed by dyslexia, they put 3 instead of E.

but i try to post pics/messages that are worth reading/seeing. maybe i'm just too old school but i hold others to the same standard. either way, it seems like the general consensus here is to not delete them but to only disable voting on them so it won't matter much.

Too easy to criticize via the internet.

Just because you can do a thing, doesn’t mean you should do a thing

Congrats on being Mod-ed.

I certainly think preventing voting on blurred photos is a good thing; personally I'm also for the deletion of photos that are so blurred that the models are unidentifiable as there's no real benefit from them being here as no-one can offer helpful advice if they can't see the model.

I do understand people's reservations on just deleting things, maybe some guidelines about what is acceptable and notifications of potential deletions rather than just outright deleting items.

As someone that posts a lot of WIP conversion/sculpting pictures, I like to have people voting on things so I can see how people react to it. This could be limited to just Coolness factor and comments though as painting isn't really a valid selection for unpainted WIPs

I object to the deletion of unfocused pictures, because there are situations in which no focus is necessary.

The gallery is used to host images for battle reports, and the occasional argument about true line of sight perspective, in addition to its uses for showing off painting and modeling skills. In both of those situations, you can have pictures which have no clear focus yet are are still just as relevant to the site as scans of out of print GW publications.

I think K_K's suggestions are spot on - though I'd say definitely delete blurry pics as they really aren't helping anyone do anything.

Yea I really don't see any cause to delete but I agree with disabling voting..is that not an option already for users when the put up pics in the gallery?

Thanks so far, I think the concensus is for slightly blurry/dark pictures disable voting and do a PM or comment on photography.

But the outright incomprehensible ones should go.

So for example this one I'd keep, even leave voting on but give a tip.



But this I'll delete

Looks like you've got the right 'levels' set for keep/delete!

those last two are exactly the type i'm talking about. the first picture i'd have no problem with whatsoever. the last two are simply photos at which *zero* effort was made to present a clear picture; it's not age/lack of experience/disability/*insert unrelated social crusade here* but a simple lack of effort on the part of the poster. those last two are ones i'd say should be deleted.

for pics whose quality is in between those two, i'd say leave them be (with voting enabled). perhaps they were posted with something specific in mind that isn't readily apparent without reading a pertinent thread. if someone has a pic where the majority is out of out of focus but the one area that is greenstuffed is, then voting should be available as that may be on purpose. posters are able to disable voting on their own when they upload so i personally don't think voting should ever be disabled.

I agree the top photo is perfectly fine, the other two are just taking up storage space. I can't fathom the argument behind keeping them around.

Personal opinion, I'd like to see a good chunk of culling. There are lots of pics that just don't have any business being up (like literally NO redeeming qualities, the bottom two are good examples). It makes it a pain when you're looking for something or even just browsing.

I wouldn't mind seeing two gallery levels - one for private use for hosting things like trade pictures (in other words, they won't pop up w/ a search or view random but will pop up in whatever threads the user posts them in) and the public galleries.

I also wouldn't mind some sort of tag we can give photos that we think you might want to moderate. Lately I've been tagging a lot of things WIP in anticipation of some sort of culling, but would be more than willing to help with whatever direction you want to take it.

1-UP wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing two gallery levels - one for private use for hosting things like trade pictures (in other words, they won't pop up w/ a search or view random but will pop up in whatever threads the user posts them in) and the public galleries.

I also wouldn't mind some sort of tag we can give photos that we think you might want to moderate. Lately I've been tagging a lot of things WIP in anticipation of some sort of culling, but would be more than willing to help with whatever direction you want to take it.

Good points both. The two tier does exist, that's what disabling voting does. If voting is off it will show up when you browse chronolgically or search for tags but not in the voting queue. The problem is users have to make the pick, and a lot don't (though more and more do). Also pics that are uploaded to articles or the board directly are also put in the gallery. Lego has a longer thread explaining this in nuts and bolts.

As far as tagging things, sure you can PM me the URL of the gallery page or we can decide a tag like 'moderator' or 'delete' I can check from time to time.

Now for 2 more borderline cases:



This is part of a detailed batrep with arrows and other explanations. Should I leave voting enabled/disable voting (since it's not really about the models)/or ask?

My inclanation is just to disable voting without asking.



By contrast this is awesome and clearly meant to show off the model but was posted with voting disabled. Should I enable voting or now?

My feeling is not but ask.

lol, so you're the one disabling the voting on my images!! i was wondering about that... i just uploaded them tonight and was trying to link them to the batrep and noticed that half of them were disabled. i figured i was somehow doing it wrong when i uploaded!

i'd say leave voting enabled for battle report pics. i frequently vote just as much for the terrain as well as the overall impressiveness of the scene as the models in pics that contain both, which is generally what the batrep pictures have. the hobby and dakka gallery isn't just about the models but the surface we play with them on as well as the terrain around them; we should be able to vote on that also as part of the hobby. what's around the models can give a significant boost to "coolness" votes IMO, although i don't subtract for lack of it ever.

in the second case, i don't think you as a mod should change any voting priveleges as it's an option that the poster has when he/she uploads. perhaps the poster is a professional painter and is afraid of people vindictively voting low on his projects that he uses as advertising for his services? gamers are a paranoid/superstitious bunch (try touching someone's dice without asking and you may get some interesting reactions).

I'd disable voting for battle report pictures. While you could interpret the vote to be for the terrain, the combined model quality, or whatever, no two voters can be assumed the be evaluating the same thing. The rating is worthless.

Personally, when I see a battle report picture, I always vote na/na.

If someone disabled voting for their image, I wouldn't change it. Maybe send a PM asking why, and explain that few people would get to see it?

If you are going to be sending out loads of PM's for various things, you might want legoburner to code in some preset "PM user regards this image" buttons/options (if there aren't already things like this), otherwise you will spend an inordinate quantity of time attempting to sort out the gallery.

I also don't know if it would be possible to create some kind of hidden (or not hidden if that is too hard) moderation tags, similar to the search tags we have now so that you can quickly tag images you want to keep an eye on?

Such as "blurry", or "PM'd user", etc, so you can just type those tags into the image search and it will bring up all the images in dispute?

I'm with MSP; if someone has specifically set the photo to not allow votes, then that's up to the person that uploaded it and shouldn't really be changed without their approval.

The addition of some sort of moderator alert keywords, or some way for us to flag images for your attention, would be good. I'd like to be able to flag blurred or inappropriate images as I go through voting on things

If a user has disabled voting on their own images, you should not then enable voting, in any situation. They've uploaded for their own use, and to contribute to the gallery. But if they feel they want to be left out of a preferential voting system, that should remain their choice.

Just my two cents.

I agree with the original post:

Delete the blurry ones.
Delete off-topic stuff.
Allow unpainted, as they may be part of WiP blogs. But disable voting.
Allow battle report pictures, but disable voting.

Delete the blurry ones.
Delete off-topic stuff.
Allow unpainted, as they may be part of WiP blogs. But disable voting.
Allow battle report pictures, but disable voting

Agree.