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Hi guys, I get asked alot why I don't give my sergeants reelly reelly gud stuff.

Well, I feel, there are three categories, each with three questions to ask yourself before you jump in:

heres my prosess:

1. do sergeants last. in fact, do all equipment last. sort out what how many FOC and of what your taking, and what kind of situation you will be fighting in.

1. for the army:
What weapons does the army need
Do you have a sufficient anti-MEQ/EEQ [AP3-] weapons?
That is, plasma cannons, sternguard ammo [to an extent] and tanks to deal with them?
Does your army have sufficient Anti-large weak squad support
(as stalin said, quantity is a quality of it's own.)
that is, can you deal with large contingents of guard and ork?
Do you have good anti tank?
What if you're going up against land raiders?! you need something to kill 'em.

Realise the necesary use for the squad in question

2. For the squad
What role does the squad play? if it's an anti-light infantry squad, maybe going heavy weapon isn't the best.
so, I'd guess, if you're fighting with assault marines, stay with bolt pistol and chainsword. the power sword isn't worth it.
If you're fighting heavy infantry, the likes of terminators, maybe a powersword or plasma pistol will be useful.
What toughness are you likely to face?
If availible, storm bolter and relic blade is always the best it provides decent power, and decent shooting and range. but, given the fact that marines can't take that, it is a nice idea to try weapons that will deal with hard troops. T8 will not stand well against power fists. T4 it wouldn't matter as much. T2 and your throwing away attacks. if you're likely to face units more powerful then T6 in large contingencies [more then 4.] take a powersword.

3. for the sergeant himself:
is he shooting at the same range as the rest of his men? are they shooting further or shorter then he?
so, you've given him a bolt pistol, but everyone else has a bolter. throwing away shots, much? Try to keep the range as simmilar as possible.
What is the sergeants purpose in the squad?
For most squads, the Serg is there just for the sake of his Ld and juicy attacks. but, if the squad is more likely to assault, like a flamer Combat squad, he might benefit from a chainsword/pistol group. or, maybe you need some heavy close support. he might then benefit from a storm bolter and a power fist.
how likely is the sergeant to fufil his role?
if the squad may end up getting bogged down, maybe it's not worth that extra 35 points. maybe it's better off without them.

...must resist...urge to... correct grammar...and spelling...

I was playing my friend who played Eldar. He told me 'Damnit, I hate it when your marine squads have a powerfist!" Since that day all my marine squads have them.

a sergeant with a power fist is about the only guy in the squad whose worth a *%$! in cc.
AF

Everyone else is there to spell 'Hidden'...before the Sarg yells 'Powerfist'.

Basically, the fist adds flexibility to the squad. It still doesn't make them a master at anything, but makes expands their number of trades.

You can give a lot of things to a Space Marine sergeant but at the end of the day you'll always want a power fist. After all you never know when you'll be in close combat with a Wraith Lord.

I agree it depends on the role.

If you are facing MEQ, PW or PF. PF gives a lot of flexibility but for a very high cost. PW is one extra attack at initiative but at lower strength. PF is generally better but if I intend for the unit to stand off, I would rather have a Plasma Rifle and perhaps a Combi-weapon on the sergeant. If I am counting on squad flamers or melta guns, that unit is going to be in HTH so the PW or PF really makes sense on the sergeant.

I don't agree with the PF on every sergent as 4 squads like that is 100 points. I can field more firepower for those kind of points and unless the PFs are guaranteed to get upclose and personal, the bolter, BP and CCW can be just fine and I will repurpose those points elsewhere.

I prefer putting pws on my sarges, since they get to strike at normal initiative, and they can get an extra attack from a pistol (4 attacks on the charge).

agree

It's a personal call.
Vs. MEQ the fist wins out by a little.
Vs. GEQ the power wins out by a little.

Instant kill T4 models/IC.
Threaten tanks more.
Hurt MC's, etc, etc.

Fist can do more though, but you pay more for it of course.
Which ever you decide, it's a personal call of course, but fitting them for their role is best...which could be with or without equipment.

Never heard of GEQ before. What's the equivalent to IG?

T3 stuff with 5+ or worse armor, a combination of both or just one of them.
Guants, Guards, Eldar, etc.

2/3 of the above are Meched up though........

Mine are going to be PF and combi weapon likely flamer or melta.

I always arm mine with Power Weapons as standard, with Plasma Pistols if I have enough points spare.

I used to give my sgts power swords. Then I moved on to power fists. I found I never really wanted the tactical squads in combat anyways, so now they don't get any special weapons at all, unless its a combi flamer.

I like to equip sgts with Storm bolters if they're in transports so him and a special weapon can fire on the move plus whatever weapon on the vehicle. If I give them that and I plan to have them in the front line then I usually drop the point to grab a power fist. The power fist 8 times out of 10 makes up well over its cost in points. I once killed a biker warboss with power klaw in close combat the turn he charged me while only losing three Marines.

I do the Power Weapon/Plasma Pistol with my Tactical Gun Line Squads, good MEQ figting ability if I have to.
My Assualt Sargents ar Power Fist/Plasma Pistol for Transport and Dred Hunting.
I use to go with Paird Lighting Claws back when you could, but now they are for my VV Squads
My Devistator Sarg's have Bolt Gun, Chain Sword.

I prefer [Combi-Flamer / Powerfist] for my tactical sergeants.
Which are a pair of 10 man Flamer / Multi-Melta squads in a Rhino.

Dracos
I agree. unless you're running a dedicated assault unit 1 power weapon or power fist just isn't going to make that big a difference. combi weapons though? yes. always.
AF

labmouse42 wrote:I was playing my friend who played Eldar. He told me 'Damnit, I hate it when your marine squads have a powerfist!" Since that day all my marine squads have them.

That's kind of funny. I find them to be a rather big pointsink. Just my 2/100th of a dollar.

Anyway,good article, I guess. It's usually easy to tell before the game starts what you want and it's a good idea not to add the sergeant's upgrades until the end. (Build a 1900 point army or so and change your sergeants/veterans right before the game)

I find that a Power Weapon does make the difference a lot of the time. They usaly make the difference between Loosing the Assualt by 1 and Winning by 1.
Now if both side have Power Weapons it makes no difference.

Dracos posted my opinion already. Of course, I'm totally gay for Combat Tactics.

on that note I wish this game had a built in side board system, like in magic. It's dumb to tell me I have to stick with flamers if that's what I bought. Like we're not smart enough to pack a few plasma guns in that rhino just in case. idk even modern armies can do that. seems like the game should have a little better flexibility in that regard.
AF

AbaddonFidelis wrote:on that note I wish this game had a built in side board system, like in magic. It's dumb to tell me I have to stick with flamers if that's what I bought. Like we're not smart enough to pack a few plasma guns in that rhino just in case. idk even modern armies can do that. seems like the game should have a little better flexibility in that regard.
AF

That's a actually a really good point. Go tell GW

AbaddonFidelis wrote:on that note I wish this game had a built in side board system, like in magic. It's dumb to tell me I have to stick with flamers if that's what I bought. Like we're not smart enough to pack a few plasma guns in that rhino just in case. idk even modern armies can do that. seems like the game should have a little better flexibility in that regard.
AF

Really there's no reason that you'd find a plasma gun in the back of a rhino. It's been issued to a space marine or its being stored in the chapel. Its a rare and finite resource. Then take the Imperial Guard; they take the weapon they are given and are grateful to have one; Orks don't really care so long as it sounds good; Eldar have it planed in advance; Tau have their one and only gun or if they're in their suit its built on; Nids can't really remove their limbs and swap them for the right one.

Now that said I'm all for having cards for things like orbital strikes (large blast), smoke screens (4+ cover save), targeting data (+1BS), Mine field and other nastiness. It would make the game feel part of a larger battle, that has been going on for weeks, months or even years.

Tri wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:on that note I wish this game had a built in side board system, like in magic. It's dumb to tell me I have to stick with flamers if that's what I bought. Like we're not smart enough to pack a few plasma guns in that rhino just in case. idk even modern armies can do that. seems like the game should have a little better flexibility in that regard.
AF

Really there's no reason that you'd find a plasma gun in the back of a rhino. It's been issued to a space marine or its being stored in the chapel. Its a rare and finite resource. Then take the Imperial Guard; they take the weapon they are given and are grateful to have one; Orks don't really care so long as it sounds good; Eldar have it planed in advance; Tau have their one and only gun or if they're in their suit its built on; Nids can't really remove their limbs and swap them for the right one.

Now that said I'm all for having cards for things like orbital strikes (large blast), smoke screens (4+ cover save), targeting data (+1BS), Mine field and other nastiness. It would make the game feel part of a larger battle, that has been going on for weeks, months or even years.

Which is why you'd pay point for it? Rhinos last longer than marines, so it wouldn't be stupid to put weapons in them.

I like a Powerfist and a Combi-melta on mine. With the other melta in the squad you have a pretty good chance of wrecking most tanks, and the fist seals the deal on vehicles andMCs.

Or walkers. Do not get caught in CC with a walker without a fist.

Tri
they're a rare and finite resource true. then again marines are the elite of the elite, the very tippity top of the imperial armies. if anyone would have unfettered access to special weapons it's them. Especially considering the vaunted "flexibility" of your average tac spud.
AF

It's a good thing they are flexible units, that's for sure!
I would give a few pfs, but not all, since giving them all pfs will cost way too many points. I don't like combi weapons too much, but they have uses, for sure.

Fluff and rules don't mix.
This is no mystery.

As for the jab at Tactical Squads, it's funny how much you hate them, and yet they are still the standard that the 'universe' competes against.

They are flexible, just not by your definition of the word, but this is for everyone else to read though.