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 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Yeah, it's basically a tablet. The pip boy 2000 mod for F:NV is something I,always installed, as it removed the ugly thing from your wrist.

I am a dirty casual and only started playing the Fallout series with 3, but I like the clunky wrist model. Along with the blue suit it really does identify you as a vault dweller and I like that distinction. Especially how other characters in the various games recognize the Pipboy and treat you with either awe or disdain depending on their view on vault dwellers.

I just googled the 2000 model and it is pretty interesting looking, but since it wasn't my first Pipboy it doesn't hold as much appeal as the wrist version.

At least they got it right in Fallout 4 by putting the wheel and dials on the proper side of the device, unlike Fallout 3, which the devs thankfully acknowledged as a design oversight.

"It's only years later that I realized we should have put the knobs and control on the right side of the screen as opposed to the left, this would have been considerably more ergonomic. Oh well, ergonomics were never a priority in design for this era."

Page 14 of the Art of Fallout 3.

 BrookM wrote:
It's mostly so they can use the Brotherhood again. I'm surprised they managed to keep the Enclave out aside from a single cameo / reference (as far as I can tell).

Though they no doubt fear that a departure from the established factions (BoS, super mutants and raiders) and bits of fluff (blue jumpsuit and bulky wrist computer) will result in it not being Fallout enough.

"We want to make our game distinctive from the originals, see we've stuck it on the other side of the country" > makes a bastardised version of the originals which hits the same notes, but has none of the substance.

At least they remedied the Brotherhood's out of character goody two shoes attitude in 4, but there's still no reason why there's Super Mutants other than "because". Heh, aye at least they were original enough not to have the Enclave come back from the dead (again).

With the Brotherhood though, they're a bit odd, as Bethesda - as with many, many other points of the canon - is choosing to do their own thing. Obsidian reiterated the lore from Fallout 2 with New Vegas - that the Brotherhood had ceased to be an effective organisation. Queue Fallout 3 and 4 where they have hundreds of soldiers, and rule vast areas. Apparently Maxon was given the title of Elder of the East Coast Brotherhood by the West Coast Elders. Sure... ignoring that Obsidian implied that Hidden Valley was one of the few, if not the last, Brotherhood base on that coast (or maybe Maxon sent a message, the Hidden Valley Elder answered it and then bluffed his way through? ...Whilst missing out the part where he was like "wait, you have all those resources. Would you mind high tailing your ass back here with that airship to help us?".

I like Bethesda's games as a time sink, though they require you to disconnect your brain a lot of the time. Once you actually start thinking about their lore - even whilst ignoring its conflicts with established canon - they fall flat. Skyrim leaned *heavily* on playing the unreliable narrator / Dragon Break did it stuff, instead putting the time into bothering with consistency. "Why's this thing in the game" - because it seemed cool - "yeah, but why? You've not explained anything, its just there..."

I was playing Fallout 4 last night and came upon a guy impersonating Preston Garvey. I went through the dialogue and finished the encounter then though, "hang on, what if I had Preston here (I had previously bricked Preston into the walls of The Castle to stop his incessant blithering about those procedural generated quests)?". *spawns in Preston*. Neither character even acknowledged the situation, which was a massive let down, and just seemed so, so... lazy (what'd it take to code and record a single line of dialogue of Preston snorting or something as the guy ran away?). . :/

With the Brotherhood though, they're a bit odd, as Bethesda - as with many, many other points of the canon - is choosing to do their own thing. Obsidian reiterated the lore from Fallout 2 with New Vegas - that the Brotherhood had ceased to be an effective organisation. Queue Fallout 3 and 4 where they have hundreds of soldiers, and rule vast areas. Apparently Maxon was given the title of Elder of the East Coast Brotherhood by the West Coast Elders. Sure... ignoring that Obsidian implied that Hidden Valley was one of the few, if not the last, Brotherhood base on that coast (or maybe Maxon sent a message, the Hidden Valley Elder answered it and then bluffed his way through? ...Whilst missing out the part where he was like "wait, you have all those resources. Would you mind high tailing your ass back here with that airship to help us?".

This is overlooking the fact that by this point, in the New Vegas ending which is most likely to be Canon (NCR), the NCR and Brotherhood has negotiated a truce and are peacefully coexisting once again (with the NCR returning all captured power armour, and the Brotherhood helping to patrol I-15). So perhaps the reason why the West Coast Brotherhood choose not to summon Maxson and his Chapter back to the west coast is because they don't want to jeopardise that truce with the NCR.

Crossing the American continent isn't easy either, even for the Brotherhood. They took a fair amount of casualties and lot several airships (the Mid-West Chapter) on the original journey to the east coast. The Brotherhood might have concluded its not worth the resources. They can't match the NCR's vast reserves of manpower in a war of attrition, even if Maxson comes West. Its in their interests to establish a large Brotherhood of Steel state/territory on the East coast to recruit and gather tech to strengthen themselves over the long term.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Yeah, it's basically a tablet. The pip boy 2000 mod for F:NV is something I,always installed, as it removed the ugly thing from your wrist.

I am a dirty casual and only started playing the Fallout series with 3, but I like the clunky wrist model. Along with the blue suit it really does identify you as a vault dweller and I like that distinction. Especially how other characters in the various games recognize the Pipboy and treat you with either awe or disdain depending on their view on vault dwellers.

I just googled the 2000 model and it is pretty interesting looking, but since it wasn't my first Pipboy it doesn't hold as much appeal as the wrist version.

Well, my first game was was F:NV, I just don't like the ugly model ruining my character's getup.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Watched it and I'm glad someone else is also annoyed by the "200 years is a bigger number than the devs think" mentality.

Other than that, quite spot on. While I like F4, it does have too many flaws.

It's really obvious when you compare what happened two hundred years ago.

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/1800s.html


If they did 20-40 years since the war, sure, but 200 is way too much. It was even worse with FO3 as well. But they were still stuck in the ES mindset, in which the 3rd era along was more than 400 years.

Yes, but 20-40 years after a Nuclear Holocaust is not going to be much fun either. 20 years and we'd be playing in the nuclear winter, not being able to see far enough for sniper tactics to work at all, and getting fatal radiation poisoning every half hour. Radiation half-life can be up to thousands of years [or as little as a few minutes].

OK, you are saying that there is a problem, but I don't believe reducing the time after the war will solve it.

Arguments for a shorter time include the abundance of cars. 200 years after a holocaust, there would not be any external steel or iron to be seen, never mind those vehicle shells that are really abundant. There would also be no Nuka-Cola left in existence. No company would ever produce a stockpile of goods that would last for 200 years+.

But on the other hand, it can't be as little as 40 years either. 40 years and a lot of plastic bags would still be in evidence, there would be more plastic cutlery, plastic toys, etc. around.. But even then, you'd have no Nuka-Cola unless there is some automated plant somewhere that is still collecting the ingredients, producing the recipes as it knows them, or as best it can follow them. There would be very little in the way of vegetation for any herbivore to eat in large areas, so there would be a lot more starvation going on.

On the whole, I am quite willing to forgive the errors that have crept into the Fallout series as most of them are down to decisions on making the game more playable and enjoyable.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

With the Brotherhood though, they're a bit odd, as Bethesda - as with many, many other points of the canon - is choosing to do their own thing. Obsidian reiterated the lore from Fallout 2 with New Vegas - that the Brotherhood had ceased to be an effective organisation. Queue Fallout 3 and 4 where they have hundreds of soldiers, and rule vast areas. Apparently Maxon was given the title of Elder of the East Coast Brotherhood by the West Coast Elders. Sure... ignoring that Obsidian implied that Hidden Valley was one of the few, if not the last, Brotherhood base on that coast (or maybe Maxon sent a message, the Hidden Valley Elder answered it and then bluffed his way through? ...Whilst missing out the part where he was like "wait, you have all those resources. Would you mind high tailing your ass back here with that airship to help us?".

This is overlooking the fact that by this point, in the New Vegas ending which is most likely to be Canon (NCR), the NCR and Brotherhood has negotiated a truce and are peacefully coexisting once again (with the NCR returning all captured power armour, and the Brotherhood helping to patrol I-15). So perhaps the reason why the West Coast Brotherhood choose not to summon Maxson and his Chapter back to the west coast is because they don't want to jeopardise that truce with the NCR.

Crossing the American continent isn't easy either, even for the Brotherhood. They took a fair amount of casualties and lot several airships (the Mid-West Chapter) on the original journey to the east coast. The Brotherhood might have concluded its not worth the resources. They can't match the NCR's vast reserves of manpower in a war of attrition, even if Maxson comes West. Its in their interests to establish a large Brotherhood of Steel state/territory on the East coast to recruit and gather tech to strengthen themselves over the long term.

I was erring towards canon Independent actually...

Nah I was legitimately saying the East Coast Brotherhood should go back to the West Coast (god no). Rather that Bethesda with showing how strong the Brotherhood are in there games undermines the rest of the series where even by Fallout 2 the organisation was on its last legs (a similar thing which Fallout: Tactics did - which threw canon out the window).


Something which's irked me since first playing the game. It feels very rushed. Skyrim wasn't that bad, but the amount of mistakes with level design I see when playing is a bit annoying. Most Vaults have one area where the sections don't clip together right for instances, or where you see floating clutter items. The one I came across yesterday was in one of the Gunner vaults (which, like the rest of the vaults, could *really* do with expanding on what the hell happened after the initial experiment) - the one with the child soldiers - in the Overseer's room I casually throw the Grognak magazine there over my character's shoulder. The magazine there was then stuck against the wall oddly. It'd hooked itself against a light panel which was a couple of inches off of the wall.

Bethesda must have become stricter with the level design quota this time around. For previous games it was two regular cells a day, or one large cell. Yes, I'm being nitpicky, but the amount of little things like that in this game which I see compared to previous games (which did have their fair share) is just indicative of the higher up's attitude towards what they want to do with the series (and yeah, I'm aware that Jim Stirling did make light that Bethesda did next to no testing when it came to Fallout 4, gotta ship it quick to make the bucks...).

 Wyrmalla wrote:
I came across yesterday was in one of the Gunner vaults (which, like the rest of the vaults, could *really* do with expanding on what the hell happened after the initial experiment)

What happened is that everyone died. At least everyone who likes to write notes or type onto terminals. What more could be said?

 Wyrmalla wrote:
...Something which's irked me since first playing the game. It feels very rushed. Skyrim wasn't that bad, but the amount of mistakes with level design I see when playing is a bit annoying. Most Vaults have one area where the sections don't clip together right for instances, or where you see floating clutter items...

Yeah. Having built a dungeon myself in the creation kit, I know how hard it can be to find and fix all the little cracks and other bugs. But I am continually shocked at how many errors I'm finding in some places.

For example, Automatron, in the rust devil's base, and in the (forgets name) robo-shop where you find the first robobrain, there are so many gaps in the walls, and overlapping items (and not slightly, there's at least 2 occasions of a pair of boxes that have been positioned in the same place as if the other doesn't exist. That one was really rushed out.

And not to mention the mess that is the world's nav-mesh. That was definitely a matter of "let the computer do it, and not bother to check it later".

 Lotet wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
I came across yesterday was in one of the Gunner vaults (which, like the rest of the vaults, could *really* do with expanding on what the hell happened after the initial experiment)

What happened is that everyone died. At least everyone who likes to write notes or type onto terminals. What more could be said?

In New Vegas for example when you go into a Vault full of Raiders there's a story for why the Raiders are there. In 4 you go to one of the Vaults filled with Gunners and Bethesda leaves it at "*something* happened to the Vault Dwellers, oh and now some Gunners are here". There's no background as to what went wrong in the Vault originally, what happened to the original inhabitants or who the new inhabitants are other than another bunch of generic enemies to kill. Not to mention that its like the level designers were told "make a ruined Vault" and then were told to add the enemies as an after though. If you removed the odd ammo can or piece of Gunner graffiti, there's barely anything to distinguish those Vaults from places which were wrecked by the inhabitants, and ones which have had new people living in them for decades (I mean stick in some more Wasteland set pieces, etc).

And writing this, anyone else irked by the amount of skeletons you find in the game in inhabited areas? I was just thinking about that Vault and there being skeletons just lying in the hallways. ...Even bad people tend to clean up that sort of thing. They're hard coded into settlements so you can't just open the console and disable them - they respawn after reloading the save. :/

At first the game came across as having little depth compared to the others, but liveable. Now I'm playing it and just seeing how rushed the whole thing was. Hmn, I can't find an article by Jim Sterling on the subject, though he's definitely let it slide in his podcasts that his contacts at Bethesda didn't paint a very good picture of the game's development (Todd Howard in particular seems to be one of the driving forces behind dumbing down the world and story design.People who'd worked with him on older Elder Scrolls said he was the type of player who just wanted to hit everything with a sword, instead of bothering with dialogue options).

I always figured the vault with the unexplained gunners was the origin place of the gunners. It makes sense to me, what with the disciplined original inhabitants. After they took over the place some of them probably just decided to become high quality mercenaries/raiders since fighting is the only thing they're good at.

Of course, that's just a guess. The gunners don't really have a backstory otherwise.

Also, with the Skeletons, at least for the ones in the Starlight Drive-In settlement, I've found I can just pick up a tire and use it to push the skeletons away and they won't return. I just moved them behind the workshop bench shed. Too bad it doesn't work for those ghoul corpses and such. I hope you haven't scraped every loose tire.

I think the Vault that trained and brainwashed kids to become soldiers was the origin of the Gunners. The kids revolted, overthrew the staff of the Vault and escaped into the Wasteland, only to become the very thing they were intended to be. And over the years as they grwew LD and died they were replaced by their own children and new recruits who were raised in the ways of the Gunners. So not even the Gunners remember their own origins now except as legends.

Aye, or the Gunners are the remnants of the US army, being that they're inhabiting where the last holdout was recorded and wearing their gear.

...Or Bethesda could have done more than a cursory bit of fluff about them? They're supposed to be mercenaries, but shoot everyone on site, so just become generic raiders. They're the game's stand in for baddies who have better gear than your average mook, the same as Talon Company from 3, and with just as little background.

I'm fine with showing, not telling ...though you need to at least bother with some cursory fluff instead of just dropping some random enemies in a location (which very little has been done to show they inhabit) and letting the players assume why they're there. Had it been a game which didn't seem so rushed I'd put that down to showing, not telling, but in this I'll chalk it up to there not being enough time allocated in the budget.

To me they are just raiders wearing greens instead of leathers.

I'm replaying it with no mods so far and it just really...I dunno, doesn't feel like it has that much replayability? I mean everything is happening exactly the same more or less. Slightly different orders, but really unless I want to just randomly start shooting people to anger one faction or the other ahead of the forced choices at the end, it really doesn't feel like it'll play out significantly differently.

I'm on my third or fourth replay right now. With these types of games I really like the early game where you're scavenging everything, though as you level up everything becomes rather similar. With Survival on there's little difference to this mechanic, rather you wind up fighting tougher enemies (who have tons of ammo, till they die and only have a few rounds...) with the same resources, which is just annoying.

Dialogue options are moot for the most part. Your average conversation involves one path which branches into a yes or no question at the end. Most of the points beforehand amount to the player choosing multiple ways to phrase the same question (which the NPC then replies to in the same way). The criticism which I had when I first started playing this game that there's no "bad" dialogue options the majority of the time other than "kill them" stands. You can pick sarcastic (which I tend to do just in the hope the player model doesn't pull that daft smile again), though in the end you still need to do what the NPC says to the letter (which tends to involve you going out and killing someone).

There's that one NPC trader you meet early on who you have the opportunity to rob. The problem I have with her is that she then goes to Sanctuary and stands about there for the rest of the game telling you to feth off. I'm cool with her not liking you, but damn does the game lay it on heavy that it doesn't like you doing bad things. Where's the tick to have her wander off somewhere else in a few days ...as otherwise your average player will just shoot her in the face for bothering them - which isn't really reinforcing the arbitrary karma thing.


The current issue with the game is that the modding scene is drying up fast. There was little support for it to begin with due to Bethesda wanting to setup its paid store. What we have now with the release of Skyrim Remastered are those who moved to Fallout 4 from Skyrim going back to that (the Skyrim scene itself having remained fairly lively). The Script Extender team's quit supporting Fallout 4, as have some fairly large modders cancelled what they were working on. Its a pity, as the game still has a lot of potential, Bethesda just shoot the thing in the foot unfortunately.

Here's hoping that Obsidian does wind up with the license to make their own spinoff eventually, if Bethesda thinks that's viable at this point.

Early level scavenging is really a highlight for me. I often drop everything from the tutorial and punch out the first raider I see, wear their stuff, wield their weapons and go from there.

I also liked starting off with nothing in Fallout 3 and New Vegas DLC when I could. Like going into Honest Hearts with only some pre-war clothes and a 10mm pistol with only 2 full reloads, which is quickly ditched for whatever the natives are wearing. Used only the arms and armour given in The Pitt. But Fallout 4 just doesn't feel as viable to play without level appropriate gear. The fog monsters of Far Harbor will rip the locals to shreds in the opening attack if I don't bring a good gun. Putting the Gauntlet & Overboss so early also makes it feel like a bad move to not bring some good armour and stimpacks. Plus you can't drop your caps anywhere, so to empty my pockets I have to buy a bunch of shipments or give it to the Brother Thomas of the Pillars of the Community.

I suppose the player character from F3 & F:NV is a lot tougher and stronger when unarmed and unarmoured than in F4. So dropping everything just isn't the same, considering how long it takes to kill someone with your bare hands.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
I'm on my third or fourth replay right now.

You're of sterner stuff than me. I've attempted a second playthrough a week or so ago, but after putting in a few hours I've uninstalled the game again, as it was a repeat of the first playthrough, with not much new.

Oh I came home today and uninstalled the game. It was just bugging me so much and becoming a massive time sink.

When I say playthrough, I meant a new character with maybe a dozen hours into them. The furthest into the game I made it was just before reaching the Institute. I've completed Far Harbour twice, as that environment is so much more interesting than the base game, though its *really* short.

If you like the isometric style of the original 2 Fallout games, then I recommend Wasteland 2. Quite a fun game, like a cross between Fallout and X Com.

I played Wasteland 2, though I dropped off of it after things became a little convoluted. I think it a while after the Railhead stuff, which was intesting, but the way you resolve that with a peaceful ending was a bit too "Guide dang it" for me.

I'm awaiting the Numenera game whenever that comes out. Tyranny looked alright, though I'm not really into the Bronze Age fantasy setting it has. Pillars of Eternity was more my thing, I just didn't have the time to play it, as did some of it carry over things I didn't like from stuff like Baldur's Gate. If there was a game similar to Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura, and didn't feel half finished I'd be into that (Pillars of Eternity seemed to carry over a lot of the tropes, but it went in different places).

Minor wasteland 2 spoilers:

Nah, I quit the game following the zombie bunker place and trying to make it back into the original base which the bandits had taken over. I had other stuff to play, so didn't bother going any further. I think I played Shadowrun Returns again or something.

I've now managed to finish exploring the DLC areas and can post my thoughts (for what it's worth):
The story for Far Harbour is probably the best of the bunch. Vault-tec doesn't really have a story, it's just a glorified settlement add-on. Atomotron is not much better; it's a simple idea used to add in the robot building. Which leaves Far Harbour and "Raiders!"... I mean Nuka-world.
The NW story is again just there as an excuse to add in a new area to explore and some half-hearted gameplay elements.
The FH story does at least seem to make a difference to the people you meet (even if it's still mostly by making them dead, the alive ones do appear to be affected).

Becoming a raider in NW really feels tacked on. There's no incorporation into the base game. Up until you go to NW you are forced to play the good guy; you can't say "no" to anyone, you still get the quest to go and get something / help someone, and you're always hailed as a hero.
Then off you go to NW and can return to raid your own settlements... Why? If I'm in control of all the settlements, I don't need to raid them. I could easily send the excess stock of food to the raiders without bothering. No option to do this in game, and no advantages to you to do it either (other than a couple of perks).
Really needed to be woven more neatly into the game from the start. Not to mention companion / npc reactions etc. (no infiltration options as with the rest of the game)

For the explorer though, Far Harbour is a bit boring. Every area of the island is basically the same; you've seen one area, you've seen it all.
NW however, is better with the various zones to explore, and even outside the park is more interesting than FH (although a bit too sparse compared to the base game).
Even exploring the Vault 88 caverns was more interesting than FH (although much much shorter), likewise Atomo'n (even though there's so many level design faults).

But they all killed a few extra hours, were generally enjoyable, but I'm now back to building settlements.

This time the Castle. Keep your Diamond city, this is the Pentagon city.

When I first visited the Castle I wanted to fill the interior courtyard with buildings, but was disappointed when just "fixing" the walls brought me close to the size limit for the settlement system.
I didn't let that stop me though; console commands were used to raise the size limit, again and again...

I started by planning out the walkways at ground level, attempting to keep to the pre-defined npc routes. I then build buildings around this network of paths. These expanded upwards and/or other buildings were placed on top and walkways were added to join them all up at all levels.

Then I had to decided what all these rooms were going to be. This was tricky as I'd created many more areas than I could imagine. But mods came to the rescue with many more jobs for settlers to do, and with a few storerooms I managed to give all the areas a theme.

Quite a long video (there's a lot going on), but come and see the sights:
A Minuteman museum,
Restaurant and bar,
Shops shops shops,
Barbers,
Information post,
Workshop area,
Minutemen radio post (as found in the game, but expanded),
Clinic and Surgery centre,
Farm and Botany centre,
Large Bathroom/Shower/exercise area,
The General's quarters and command centre,
Intelligence centre and data storage,
Residential areas,
Railroad safe area (this is my railroad / Minutemen character),
Reactor room,
Gun range,
Depot,
and more...

The final size is over 10 times that of the vanilla limit. It really pushed my PC to it's limits, so forgive the frame-drops.

and you get to see my first character at the start of the video.



In addition to that, this is my updated mod list: