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I have seen lots, and lots of CSM threads on here about what people would like to see in a new CSM codex. However, one thing I have yet to see (or seen in any serious attempt) is anyone actually post and discuss various stats for these upgrades.

So lets have a civil go, shall we?

First off, we need somewhere to start. Characters are fairly straight forward and simple, so lets start here.

Here is my take on fixing Abby:

Cons: High base cost compared to newer codex hero's, has the ability to neuter himself on a bad roll, not near as tough as he once was compared to newer characters.

Abaddon

(Same Base Stats)
(Patron God: Undivided)

Cost: 250 Points

Wargear: Termi Ar, Personal Icon, Drach'nyen, Talon Of Horus

Special Rules: Fearless, IC,

Mark Of Chaos Ascendant:
*Insert Fluff here*
Abby counts as haveing every chaos mark. Thus gets every chaos mark bonus (include in profile).

The Gods Have A Plan:
Abby has been chosen by all four chaos gods, and his uncanny ability to walk away from horiffic battles without a scratch on him is proof that they are protecting him so he can fight another day.

Gives Abby a 3+ inv save (which includes the MOT +1) and grants him the eternal warrior USR.

Drach'nyen and Talon Of Horus:
*Insert Fluff*
The effect of these two weapons combined means that Abby counts as being equiped with a daemon weapon (+D6 attacks) that doubles his strength instead of the normal +1, and may re roll failed "To Wound" rolls in combat. Talon Of Horus has a built in bolter of Ancient Design and in the shooting phase may be fired useing the following profile:
Range 12, Str 4, AP 5, assault 3

Legendary Warmaster:
*Insert Fluff*
Abbys daemon weapon on a roll of 1 doesn't attack him. Instead he may only attack with his base attacks and gets no additional attacks that turn as he grapples with control of the weapon. Also even the sight of the Warmaster striding toward them across the battlefield is enough to make grown men cower in fear. All enemy Leadership checks within 12 inches of the warmaster are at -1 and any squad that he joins gains Fearless USR.

Chosen Bodyguard:
Brought Back from the 3.5 dex. (Stats and costs to follow up later once Chosen are re-worked)

Discuss away.

Only 220 points?

My God, make him around 260 or higher. He could beast any character I can think of.

That aside, I definitely like his rules upgrade, makes him a worthwhile super-character.

Well, the problem is that he currently costs around the 270 mark.. and is overcost at that when compared to the newer "uber" codex characters.

Lets meet in the middle and discuss shall we?

How does 240 sound?

Maybe 250 points at the most, and a rule which invokes terror in nearby enemies would be good for him.

Hmmm...

How would you do the Terror bit though?

Maybe a negative to all enemy LD tests within X inches?

Yeah, that's just what I had in mind.

Finally my kind of thread. I’ve been wanting a more organised proposed rules thread on Chaos for a while now. I think once we’ve finished Abaddon, we should move onto the other special characters. Hopefully at the end of this, we can have some sort of PDF document with all the finalised and discussed rules.

I think Abaddon’s cost should be no higher or lower than 250 and his power adjusted as such. I rather see Abaddon’s combi bolter upgraded rather than have some kind of a terror ability. The majority of the marine SCs have some kind of pimp storm bolter and realistically, the combi bolter on the Talon of Horus is probably also pimp. Maybe something like

Range: 12 Str: 4 AP: 3 Assault 2
OR
Range: 18 Str: 4 AP: 3 Rapid fire, twin linked
OR
Range: 24 Str: X AP: 4 Rapid fire, twin linked (always wounds on 2+)
OR
Range: 24 Str: 4 AP: 5 Rapid fire, twin linked (re-rolls to wound rolls as well)

Ok, so it seems 250 is the number people can agree on.

It is a little higher then what I was thinking... but I am a fair and open minded person. So 250 it is.

As for upgradeing his bolter, I don't really see or invision Abby as any kind of shooty character. Everything fluff wise that I have come across over the years also paints him as a close combat monster. Plus it is built into the "Talon Of Horus", so I can't really see it being upgraded.

Maybe a different ammunition type perhaps?

And yes.. I have some free time for the near future with Wildland season comming to a close. So I was planning on hitting at least the weak spots in the chaos codex and have some fun with it.

*EDIT*
Rules Updated.

The thing is that Abby will always be a CC monster and so will Calgar and Kharn, yet both Calgar and Kharn have decent shooting weaponry.

I think Abby should function as a CC monster with a reliable short ranged shooting weapon that he can used before charging into combat. His combi bolter should not be overpowered or AP2 like Calgars bolter but slightly better than average combi bolter. He is the Warmaster of Chaos after all (no expenses spared) and the weapon did belong to Horus after all.

The different combi bolters I designed above were inspired by the special ammunition in the Vanilla dex. Personally I reckon something like the hellfire rounds (wounding on 2+) or something with a slightly better AP value (4 or 3) would be satisfactory and enough to match Abby’s power to 250 points (from your 240 point design).

How about we meet in the middle, and make it an assault 3(?) weapon at current stats?

Not overpowered in the least, and is slightly better then his current setup. And he can assault after shooting it thus adding to his CC powers.

Assault 3 is good. Lord Zhufor, a forgeworlds terminator character had an assault 3 bolter attached to his powerfist. The fluff described it as a bolter of ancient design. It had the following profile

Range 12, Str 4, AP 5, assault 3

That, I can agree with.

Yes, he would lose his "Linked" status (thus the re-roll) but he gains the ability to assault after shooting. I feel that this is a equal trade off.

Yeah. I feel it is a great weapon that would suit Abby. Now that Abby is done. Who is next?

Well to be honest, my play was to post an entry every day. Thus would allow some time for people to comment away and offer their feedback.

Plus my codex isn't handy at the moment, but my plan was to go down the list page by page in order starting with characters.

Fair enough. I'm cool with whatever strategy

This thread.....

This thread I like

You may want to downgrade his "Gods have a Plan" Save to 4+ though, as MoT gives him +1 to his Invul Save. Or at least say "this includes his Mark of Tzeentch" just to avoid any confusion.

To make it even easier for the reader to interpret, just put “(including Mark of Tzeentch)” when mentioning the 3++ save in the “Gods have a Plan” entry

Sounds like a plan and it is updated.

Glad you like it.

Want me to post Fabius' Profile? It's the next in line on the FoC.

Ill let you guys squabble over the named guys, Here's what Ive got for normal HQ's

For the chaos lord I think for what he does, his base point cost should be lowered to 80 at the least.

As for marks:
Khorne: Grants Furious charge, and +1 attack.

Tzeentch: +1 to his invulnerable, Warptime (free) THIS DOES NOT MAKE HIM A PSYKER.

Nurgle: should grant him feel no pain and +1 toughness

Slaanesh: +1 initiative and fleet

Upgrades: these are fine. But add one more: Able to take eternal warrior for 20pts

Special rules: IC, Fearless, 5+ invulnerable (4+ if in termi, 3+ if both)

Chaos sorcerers: Everyone knows these guys are insanely expensive because of one thing: spells. So Ive come up with a nice little set up:

Chaos sorcerer: base 110pts (vanilla)
wargear: same, Comes with Gift of chaos, warptime, and wind of chaos.

Marks: These will affect the sorcerers stats and abilities

Khorne: The sorcerer loses all spells and force weapon, but gains a Blood-Glaive: +2 attacks, all models within 6'' of sorcerer has fleet and preferred enemy, This also affects enemies. 4+ invulnerable. immune to psychic powers

Tzeentch: able to cast two spells. Loses wind of chaos but gains bolt of tzeentch (instead of just str 8 ap 1 assault 1, it can do smaller burst shots of str 4 ap 3 assault 4). re-rollable 5+ invulnerable.

Slaanesh: Loses gift of chaos, gains lash of submission. gains fleet and 1 initiative. 4+ invulnerable.

Nurgle: Loses warptime, able to cast wind of chaos twice, but will be unable to assault. Gains FNP and +1 toughness.

extra upgrades:
Charms of Chaos: enemy psykers within 18'' of sorcerer take psyhic tests on 3d6. choose the highest 2.

mounts/wings, gun, w/e else.


Chosen Chaos space marines:
Give the Champion his own upgrades (currently he has to share with the 4 upgrades available)
Chosen should be fearless.

Possessed: LOWER THEIR COST.
Lose the random buff, let them be able to take buffs for a price (5-20pts depending on buff) max of 2 buffs.
possessed should be able to take wings for 5pts a model.

Termies: let em take asscannons, or buff the "weeper-autocannon" seriously this thing makes me weep

Chaos Dreadnaught:
Lose the crazed rule, seriously. let him take asscannons or buff the weeper.
Marks:
Khorne: rage rule (move-run-assault nearest enemy) +1 attack and furious charge
Nurgle: +1 front and rear armor (13, 12, 11), has a cloud of locusts making him have a 5+ cover save
Tzeentch: Has a str 6 ap 3 flamer, ignores terrain for movement
Slaanesh: Has +1 initiative, Uses a whip arm to drag vehicles or units that are 12'' away d6'' towards the dread (hits on a 4+)
Whip lowers the attacks of all models in cc with the dread by 1 to a minimum of 1

Defiler gets similar upgrades from marks (whip arm, pissed off khorne, floaty tzeentch, tougher nurgle)

Basic CSM:
Marks need to be cheaper for what they do or keep the prices but give better buffs.

lesser/greater daemons: LET US HAVE GOD SPECIFIC DAEMONS WITH THEIR OWN ABILITIES. (priced accurately ofcourse)

CULTISTS!: we need a cheap blob unit, these guys are perfect.

VEHICLES:
Rhinos are okay, perhaps offer options of god specific weaponry depending on the mark of the squad it started off carrying.
OR.
keep normal rhinos but give us god specific razor backs.

Razorback of khorne: (8 models) Ignores stunned.
Can only be used by khorne berzerkers or CSM with MoK, this does not confer to IC's. Has two TL bolters on top (may upgrade to combis for 5pts per).
Is a fast, assault vehicle.

Razorback of Nurgle: (7models) (may only be used by plague marines or CSM's with MoN) Thicker armor (12, 11, 10), cloud of flies (5+cover, unless there's better) Has a pus launcher on top (str 5 ap 4 heavy 3 blast)
This vehicle may only move 6'' always passes terrain checks

Razorback of Tzeentch: (9 models) (May only be used by thousand suns or CSM's with MoT) 10 armor all round, has a re-rollable 4+ cover save. has a TL Infernobolts bolter on top. This vehicle is a skimmer and opentopped.

Razorback of Slaanesh: (6 models), comes with two TL sonic blasters (may add a doom siren for 15, or replace the TL sonic blasters with a 2 blastmasters for 20 per)
This vehicle causes all enemies within 18'' to take leadership/psychic/w/e else tests with a -2 modifier.
this vehicle is fast.

the prices would be the same as a normal razor back, but paying to have it be a god specific one as the upgrades.

as for the normal razorback: (6 models) has a TL heavy bolter on top. May have normal vehicle upgrades. may up the turret to buffed weeper cannons (or TL ass cannon) for 15, or a TL lascannon for 30.

LANDRAIDER VARIENTS: (non loyalist chaos versions)
some of the varients are god specific.
All land raiders come with Daemonic intelligence. This vehicle will ignore crew stunned, but will always be able to fire 1 weapon if shaken. May target two units with weapons.

Landraider Infester (nurgle): (10 models) TL Pussprayer sponsons (AP4. template, always wounds on a 3+) and a TL puslauncher on top. Has cloud of locusts (5+ cover)
May only move 6'' but always passes terrain tests.

Landraider Bloodspiller (khorne): (16 models) TL Heavy bolter sponsons, Two TL heavy bolters on top. This vehicle is fast (combined with already being an assault vehicle) Ignores imobilized results on a 5+

Landraider Warper (tzeentch): (10 models) 12 armor all round, TL S5 ap 3 warpflamer sponsons, Warplauncher on top (large blast sends anyone who fails a toughness test (they must roll their toughness or lower) into the warp (eternal warriors suffer a wound). 6 always fails. re-rollable 4+ cover save.
This vehicle ignores terrain, but is opentopped.

Landraider Violator (slaanesh): (10 models) 4TL sonic blasters per sponson OR TLblastmaster sponson. Doom Organ on top. Any enemies within 18'' of this vehicle taker any leadership/psychic w/e else tests on a -2 modifiier

Doom Organ: A much larger and more powerful doom siren capable of emitting many different sounds and attacks.
shot:
full auto: The organ player lets off a softer extremly fast paced tune, S3, Ap6 assault 15
burst: The Player slams on the keys hard releasing a massive wave of sound, S4 ap5 assault 2 template (2 flame templates)
Focused Fire: The organ player sets his volume to 11 and begins slamming the keys at a crazed rate creating a earth shattering sound-wave S10 ap2 ordnance1 large blast, Lance, pinning.
This vehicle is fast

Non god landraiders: these guys can take normal vehicle upgrades and daemonic intelegence for 30 pts.

Landraider Destroyer: TL Plasma cannon sponsons, Plasma destroyer on top (two shots)

Landraider Corrupter: Reaper auto cannon sponsons, Two reapers on top (this baby was made to shoot. and shoot it will.

Predators:
Same shenanigans here, god specific ones will have special weapons and rules. we will also have a fast attack version. but its front armor is 12, and TL bolter sponsons with reaper auto cannon on top. Its fast.

DROP PODS OMFGWTFBBQ:
WE NEED THESE. Drop pods have existed before the heresy but some codex writers thought it would be funny to deny us these. Instead of clyclone missile launchers we would get havoc launchers inside them.

Also an option to purchase an upgrade to allow those who deep strike from it to be able to assault.

OBLITS:
Make them cheaper, yes they have two wounds and a 2+ save but for what they can do, they arent worth 75pts a pop.

OR. Keep the price, but make them S5, T6.

OR. Keep the price, Immune to instant death, and Twin-link their heavy weapons.

HAVOCS:
make las cannons 30pts, make missile launchers 15, If the unit has a champion, allow the havocs to split their fire (ALL shots must be fired at the same time, so no popping tanks with las cannons then smashing the contents with heavy bolters). Allow one to take a plasmacannon.
The squad may become relentless at 3pts per model.

thats all ive got for now.

Return raptors to being Unmarked only please?

It would be great if we could organise something as many CSM players know their Codex is

Here's some of what I've come up with in regards to Special Rules and Marks...as for the marks many ideas have been taken from the 'Marks should be different' thread. I feel marks should confer more abilities than mere Icons...I think for the more dedicated Chaos armies units such as Chosen, Terminators, Havocs etc should be able to have Marks or Icons...

Chaos Space Marine Special Rules:

All the original Traitor Legions and their Renegade brothers have nurtured an almost infinite hatred of their Loyal Space Marine brethren. Many who fought during the Heresy can still recall those days as if they they were there again, re-living the shame of defeat, whilst the fresh hatred and dissolution of the Imperium and its Emperor is like a cancer forever growing within the Renegade's mind. Several times since the Hersey Abaddon has often re-ignited their shared hatred for their most common enemy – The Emperor & his loyal Astartes. As Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade still rages around the Cadian Gate there is only one vital objective. All Chaos Marines have the following rule:

Death to the False Emperor!: Chaos Marines have the Preferred Enemy universal special rule against any Space Marines army.

Renegades: Space Marine Renegades are as diverse as the nature of Chaos itself. Some have become so focussed and driven in their dedication that they have been 'adopted' into the orignal Traitor Legions. Others have become a force of their own, acting as Pirates or Mercenaries to Chaos Lords or any who would pay their demands. Others, still, have only just rebelled either fighting a campaign of their own or are else heading to the Cadian Gate to join the Despoiler's 13th Crusade.

A Chaos Marine army may be picked in either of two ways. It may use this as a stand-alone Codex, or it may use the Space Marine Codex as the basis. This is to give Chaos players the chance to represent a newly renegade army that has renounced its oath to the Emperor and the Imperium itself. If the latter is chosen then all Space Marine Special Rules (other than Drop Pod Assault: see below) are removed and are replaced with the Death to the False Emperor! rule & all Unique choices, Chaplains & The Legion of The Damned are removed as options from the Army List.

If used all Space Marine Independent Characters may be given the Mark of Chaos Undivided for 20 points. All Infantry units may take an Icon of Chaos Undivided for + 10 points.

Note: Other Chapter specific Codex books could be used in a similar fashion but this may end up crippling their effectiveness too much that no player may wish to. I have not covered these due to the many complications that would arise, however it would simply be a case of using the rules and army lists as normal and modeling the models differently.

Dreadclaw Assault: Many Chaos Legions and Renegades have kept the manufacturing and craft capabilities they have had since their inception, and many still retain a suitably sized fleet and supporting craft, including the use of Drop Pods or their Dreadclaw varients. Chaos commanders are often less scrupulous than their Loyalist 'equals' and often deploy such craft simultaneously, shocking the enemy with their speed and precision in force:

Any unit with a Drop Pod or Dreadclaw as its Dedicated Transport vehicle may choose to remain in reserve at the start of the battle as normal, or else deploy on their first turn, following all the rules for Space Marine Drop Pods.

Marks of Chaos: The Mark of any particular Chaos God is earned only through many years, if not decades, or even centuries, of combat and sacrifice. Often an individual dedicating themselves to a particular God will have to pass many tests or challenges set by their new Master as a sign of their devotion. The Marks themselves are a blessing from their God that alter their champion's physiology and temprament and may even gift them with special abilities suitable to the God's whims. Marks may only ever be given to Independent Characters or certain Elite choices as stated in their army list entry. Any ability marked * applies to Independent Characters only. The rules are as follows:

Mark of Khorne: + 1 A, + 1 WS*, Furious Charge.
Nurgle: + 1 (T), - 1 I, Feel No Pain*
Slaanesh: + 1 Initiative, Acute Senses, Aura of Acquiesence*
Tzeentch: 4+ Inv, Inferno Bolts, Oracle of Tzeentch*
Undivided: Fearless (units only), Eternal Warrior*

Aura of Acquiesence:
The Champion or unit is wrapped with the glamour of Slaanesh and is a beauticious wounder to all who look upon them, often reducing their enemy to gaze upon them in awe and desire, only to be cut down or eviscerated by the angelic site before them. Only the most strong willed or disciplined are able to see the champion or unit for what they truly are.

Enemy units in base contact with a model with this rule count as Weapon Skill 1 unless they can pass a Ld test at the start of any combat. The rule has no effect against units who are subject to Rage.

Oracle of Tzeentch:
The Lord or Sorceror of Tzeentch has been given the ability of great foresight by their Master and can peer into events and destiny's as sure as they can the physical forms of their enemies. This enables them to determine the enemies deployment and reserve schedule, as well as giving an imperious ability to surpise the approaching enemy before they can even react. The ways of the Lord of Change are fickle, however, and can lead the champion towards their own doom as sure as any victory.

This ability works differently on Lords and Sorcerors, for Tzeentch changes and manipulates their talents to best suit his own needs. The rule confers the Warptime psychic power to the Lord of Tzeentch and enables the Sorceror to re-deploy D3 friendly units before the battle begins should they wish to do so. The ability enables either to 'Sieze the Initiative' on a D6 roll of 5 or 6. However on a roll of 1 the Changer of Ways has an alternate plan for them and the enemy gets to re-deploy D3 of the Chaos Marine player's units.

If more than one HQ is taken with the Mark of Tzeentch then they may re-roll the dice to sieze the Initiative.

Or something like that....

OK, thank you all for trying to contribute, but this is why I was trying to keep things organised. Right now our focus looks like a shotgun pattern at 50 yards.

It's all over the place.

Lets knock out the Characters first, then move on to the main body later. (HQ, troops ect ect)

Up next:

Fabius Bile
(Patron God: Undivided)
Cons: Instant death, but not on a power weapon.... Enhanced warrior nobody uses due to being random and more then likely to kill off your own guys then get anything useful out of it.... Ap6 poisoned weapon is pretty much useless.

My Take on how to fix him:

(Profile same as before)

Cost: 160 (no change, I feel with his new upgrades he is now worthy of his points cost)

Xyclos Needler:
Range 18'' Str:N/A AP:5 Assault 3 Posioned (4+)

Rod Of Torment:
Counts as a power weapon that grants instant death.

Enhanced Warriors:
Pay 10(?) points per squad before game setup and roll on the following chart and apply to that squad for the remainder of the game. Can only be used on regular CSM troops. Can only be purchased once per squad
D6 Roll:
1: +1 WS
2: +1 BS
3: +1 STR
4: + 1 Wound
5: + Fearless
6: Ive Created a Monster! Pick one upgrade of your choice and roll again. If you roll two sixes in a row, uncontrolled mutation rips through your ranks, leaving few standing. Replace your squad with a Chaos Spawn. If a squad is removed this way then it does NOT count as a VP/KP/whatever for your opponent for scoring.


I feel that this addresses the main complaints I have heard about this SC. As always please feel free to comment away.

Just to make the discussion a bit less chaotic... how about cover one mark at a time. Start with specifics and then balance out to Chaos Undivided.

Start with an easy one. Mark of Khorne:

Lords: +1 WS, +1 A, +1 S, Furious Charge, Fearless
Needed to qualify Berzerkers as troops.


Daemonic Weapon: 2d6 extra attacks as now but instead of wounding user on a 1, wounds user on a double. Works like a Psychic Hood but with only a 12" radius.

Sorcerer: Does not exist

Special Mark infantry: Khorne Berzerkers (+1 WS, +1 A, Furious Charge, Fearless) Loss only allowed special weapon is Plasma Pistols. No Heavy Weapons

Mark infantry: (+1 A) No heavy weapons allowed.

Mark lesser daemon: (+1 S) CSM Lesser Daemons are a more ethereal duplicate of the true Chaos Daemon - They look just like a true daemon of that mark - in this case a Bloodletter - but they do not have the power weapon equivalent that true Bloodletters use. Their ethereal nature means they start attacking while they are materializing and thus can assault on the turn they deep strike.

Mark greater daemon: (AS LORD)

Mark Dreadnought: (Built in Rage - must charge closest opponent. Twice the number of base attacks. A 4 (6 w 2 CCW) NOTE: In effect a khorn dreadnough is in frenzied state at all times. No longer schizophrenic - Khorne dreadnoughts want to charge into HTH - they never fire frenzy but shine once they are in HTH.

I've spent AGES thinking about stuff like this. I've got more for basic troops, but (respecting what the OP would like) Ill stick to characters:

jp400: why not just say the Rod of torment is just a power weapon then? that gives +1S?

Typhus is good as is, can't stand the Scythe thing he has though (but thtats modelling) maybe let him take a retinue of blight termies? 45pts per. WS3 BS4 S4 T4(5) I3 Ld 10 (Fearless) Sv2+/5++ FNP TL Bolter, CCW (NOT powerweapon, like others) Blight Grenades(or simmilar - defensive grenades)

Kharn: Drop the plasma pistol

Ahriman: Immune to PotW


Chaos needs some sort of new character - one with a jump pack:
Badassnamehere
WS5 BS5 S4 T4 I4 Sv3+ Ld10 (Fearless)
Frags, Lightning Claw, Powerfist, Bolt pistol (maybe built into LC or PF?) may take a retinue of up to 4 raptor champions
same stats as him
Frags, Power weapon, BP, meltabombs. up to 2 may replace meltabombs and BP with either melta or flamer, or replace PS and meltabombs with PF or LCs (two)

what do you all think????

Updated.

Ive also added "Patron God" to the two characters.. I envision a system like in 3.5 where you have to choose a god (or undivided) which will unlock characters for you to choose from.

So if you choose Khorne, your troops will be Zerkers, with Hq choices like Kharn. Or Nurgle, thus giving you PM's for troops and Hq's like Typhus. ect ect.

This makes our next Character stand out a little bit, by allowing him to mix and match abit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Huron Blackheart:
* Same Stats
* Patron God: Undivided
*Cost: 170

Red Corsairs:
*Insert Fluff here*
Any army that takes Huron Blackheart as one of its HQ choices that normally wouldn't be allowed to take regular chaos space marines as troop choices, may elect to do so.

Abaddon as stated there would have all four Daemon Weapons, clarify that

There are nine Chaos Legions, so I think that there needs to be AT LEAST 9 special characters. The biggest issue with the CSM book is that there is no way to play most of the legions. My solution to this is three fold. (Along with a general re-balancing so all of the options are useful)

1) The only basic troops are Space Marines, and Cultists. All of the legion troops are Elites now. (They are veterans of the siege of terra, they are not basic troops

2) There are 9 upgrades for a CSM Lord to dedicate him to one of the legions. This includes making ONE unit of their legion's specialty a troop choice and some other upgrade.

3) There are 9 special Characters, one for each legion. They would make ALL of their legion's specialty troops.

Black Legion: Terminators become troops
Lord: units within 12" may reroll LD
Character: Abbadon, mostly the same.

World Eaters: Bezerkers become troops
Lord: Always hits on a 3+
Character: Kharn, mostly the same.

Thousand Sons: Thousand Sons become troops
Lord: Becomes a psyker with 1 power a turn.
Character: Ahriman, mostly the same, but better.

Death Guard: Plague Marines become troops
Lord: 4+ poison
Character: Typhus, mostly the same.

Emperor's Children: Noise Marines become Troops
Lord: unit gains hit and run
Charcter: Lucius , mostly the same but better

Night Lords: Raptors become troops.
Lord: -1 LD to enemy in assault
Character: Has a jump Pack, Blend into Shadows- can return to reserves to deepstrike. and then Deep Strike assault.

Iron Warriors:Lord makes one predator or Vindicator troops, Character makes all Obliterators troops.
Lord: Servo Arm
Character: Olbiterator with a servo harness and extra obliterator weapon options

Alpha Legion: Chosen become Troops
Lord: Reroll outflanking rolls
Character: According to Plan: Select two units in reserve. One enters automatically turn 2, the other turn 5

Word Bearers: Possessed become Troops.
Lord: Chaplain with liturgies of hate.
Character: Chaplain. Reroll reserves for summoned demons.

Iron Warriors:Lord makes one predator or Vindicator troops, Character makes all Obliterators troops.
Lord: Servo Arm
Character: Olbiterator with a servo harness and extra obliterator weapon options

Really? Obliterators as troop choices? It's hard enough when people are using 9 of them in a game...

Why not make there be more vehicle options, or cheaper transports or something.

Perhaps armor that makes their vehicles Front Armor +1 or something?

Bionics? Twin-Linked Melta/Plasma/I dunno what guns?

I think the Iron Warriors Character should be more like a Master of the Forge, however making obliterators elites, instead of dreadnoughts as heavy support. Also, with the lord making a vehicle a troop choice, it still wouldn't be able to capture objectives. Is this just to get more heavy support?