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So I've got one last (hopefully) set of questions before I begin modelling my Chaos forces- all about the over looked chaos lords and sorcerors. To make it easier on they eyes, I'll list them out.

Keep in mind, I usually run DP's- but they've been borrowed, and It will take a while to get some. So I want to use Lords or sorcs instead as HQ.

1. Are they ever any good, pointswise?

2. If so, what are some good builds?

3. Since the army is mutation fluff based, I'll mix in some bits off of the possessed sprues, as well as others. Good Idea, or bad?

4. They are 'technically' lords, and easiest for me to build os are these characters good AT ALL? Lucius, Fabius Bile, Kharn, and Huron.

5. Heard bad things about Ahriman- so I'll stay away. Is this true that he's that bad?

Thanks in advance!

1: Yeah, personally I use a Terminator sorcerer with a squad of termies. Works wonders Planning on trying out Chaos lord with mark of Tzeentch and Daemon wep with a squad of possessed. Should prove fun xD

2: Depends on how you want to use them. Sorcerers w/ MoT, Bolt of Change/Doombolt, Warp time tends to be a fun combination. As for lord, like i said on paper Lord w/ Mark of tzeentch with Daemon weapon, Melta Bombs looks to be a nice combination but I'm still waiting to test it out myself. Otherwise I guess it depends on which army your facing and how your using him.

3: Yeah, possessed sprues make for cool conversions for chaos lords and sorcerers

4: Someone else will have to answer this since I never used characters myself.

5: Again, someone else but I don't think hes as bad as people make him look. As stated by some other people, his weakness is over confidence by throwing alot of psychic tests and in term, risk alot of perils of the warp.

Hope that helped

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:1. Are they ever any good, pointswise?

2. If so, what are some good builds?

They're ok. A sorc is a cheap way to get the lash into your army, if you're into that sort of thing (also doubles as a fast force weapon), and my friend swears by the Juggernaut-mounted Khorne Lord with Bloodfeeder, but I really don't much care for the current iteration of the chaos lord. Mark, DW, and Disc of Tzeentch is my favourite way to run him.

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:3. Since the army is mutation fluff based, I'll mix in some bits off of the possessed sprues, as well as others. Good Idea, or bad?

Sounds awesome!

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:4. They are 'technically' lords, and easiest for me to build os are these characters good AT ALL? Lucius, Fabius Bile, Kharn, and Huron.

Kharne is scary and cheap--I've had success with him in the past. The others I haven't used much, and don't have my codex atm, so I can't vouch either way.

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:5. Heard bad things about Ahriman- so I'll stay away. Is this true that he's that bad?!

Ahriman is a very, very powerful psyker. He's also prohibitively expensive. Whenever I consider using Ahriman, I always find myself thinking "but I could just use Kharn and have enough points for another termicide squad." That's my take on it. Nevertheless, he's a pretty powerful shooter if you can keep him firing. He makes a great transport-popper, but that's not what the chaos army needs IMHO, especially because with mutation-based fluff I'm assuming you're gonna have a decent number of obliterators.

1. and 2. yes. a sorcerer lord with lash has an important advantage over the demon prince - he cant be picked out by enemy shooting. with warp time he's probably a better close combat fighter too (though not having eternal warrior still hurts) as for lords the answer will usually be no. I think khorne lords with demon weapons are fine because they're cheap and, like the lash sorcerers, cant be picked out by enemy shooting. in general though the received wisdom about demon princes is correct.

3. yes. awesome idea. anything to make an army stand out, be more fluffy, be more unique.

4. no, no idea, yes, no.
lucius is great against hordes but he's completely outclassed by most enemy hqs. since you need powerful fighters to go toe to toe with your opponent's hqs, I dont think its a good idea to take up one of your precious hq slots with a guy who just kills spuds. there are plenty of other ways to do that in the chaos book.

have no experience with fabius. he doesnt seem that good to me but I couldnt definitely say he's bad.

kharne is a wrecking ball. hitting on 2s, then wounding on 2s, then denying your opponent their armor save is just stupid good. if he had eternal warrior people would take him more. but people dont like losing him to the hidden power fist (understandably) and if you're going to take him you'll get the best use out of him by avoiding those kinds of squads. besides being good kharne is just fun. theres something about the possibility of fragging your own guys that is just really fluffy and etertaining with kharne. (why it isnt fun when the dread does this I dont know. but it isnt.)

Huron - no 1st class abilities, no eternal warrior, no demon weapon. take him for a red corsairs force I guess cause you kind of have to right? but otherwise no.

5. yes its true. ahriman is garbage. just as a general rule you never want to pay 200 or more points for a guy who doesnt have eternal warrior or some amazing ability to compensate for the lack thereof. ahriman's psychic powers dont even come close to justifying his expense.

good luck!

Man, do I dislike dreads. I can understand Kharn... but dreds just seem too stupidly dumb!

/shrug, what's wrong?
They seem fine enough.
Certainly the crazed table is a 'fun' rule for the dread, but it's not like it's 100% a handicap.

Blood Frenzy or Fire Frenzy are very powerful when you give more thought to positioning the dread throughout the game.

It just doesn't play like a loyalist dread, nor does it play how most want it to play.

You just have to be careful to equip him in ways that minimize the potential risk to your marines.

2ccws w/combi-bolters: fine

Missile Launcher and Plasma Cannon: problematic

At the very least be EXTREMELY careful with how you position him.

Edit: style.

1. Points wise they are quite expensive, but are worth it.
2. A sorcerer with nothing more than the bolt of mutation is probably the best for making up his points by killing characters, but you can also make some serious firepower with breath of chaos, bolt of chaos, mark of tzeench. A close combat build is possible but i wouldnt recommend it as a simple chaos lord with daemon weapon is much better and cheaper at this job.
3.Good idea but dont overdo it, you will make him look like a close combat champion instead of a sorcerer, stick away from combat looking claws/teeth and keep to tentacles.
4. Depends, Kharn is in my opinion the best option of all, other good heroes are Abbadon, Huron (against hordes), the rest are poor i think.
5. Well on one side VERY good at killing characters (bolt of mutation,special weapon) and is great in close combat, but the high points cost and too many psycick (i know i spelt that wrong, how do you spell psycick lol?) tests will probably kill him before he proves to usefull so id say hes poor.

Malice wrote:i know i spelt that wrong, how do you spell psycick lol?) tests will probably

psyker
its probably the second most wrongly typed word after khorne/kharn in 40k

on topic
khorne lord with 2xLC is one of the best lord builds there are

@Malice:

"Bolt of Mutation"? You mean Gift of Chaos? The problem is 'getting there' and then surviving one round of combat to actually get to use it... after which a Tough test is pretty fickle.



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khorne lord with 2xLC is one of the best lord builds there are

It looks ok, though I think he's good even without MoK...wings are a great option.

i dont really see the point of giving lord wings when he should be going with retinue within rhino/raider

You havn't encountered an objective based mission where non combat troops are on multiple objectives and a breaking off IC from a rhino with squad can engage more squads and likely destroy them than if the IC were to just stick with one squad?

Seriously... extra points going to wings gives the IC good flexibility.
If it's not kill points, he CAN go it alone.

Note: I'm all about having options. It may not come up alot for you, but it's won me more than a handful of games, if not killing off the squad he's contesting the objective.
Leaving the other squad to do their thing with cleaning up shop vs. one enemy unit or multi charging themselves.

So I've got one last (hopefully) set of questions before I begin modelling my Chaos forces- all about the over looked chaos lords and sorcerors. To make it easier on they eyes, I'll list them out.

Keep in mind, I usually run DP's- but they've been borrowed, and It will take a while to get some. So I want to use Lords or sorcs instead as HQ.

1. Are they ever any good, pointswise?

2. If so, what are some good builds?

3. Since the army is mutation fluff based, I'll mix in some bits off of the possessed sprues, as well as others. Good Idea, or bad?

4. They are 'technically' lords, and easiest for me to build os are these characters good AT ALL? Lucius, Fabius Bile, Kharn, and Huron.

5. Heard bad things about Ahriman- so I'll stay away. Is this true that he's that bad?

Thanks in advance!

1. They are good-ish. They are over costed for sure. A Sorceror with MoN and Warptime is 150 points. A Daemon Prince with MoN, wings, and warptime is 175 points. The DP has +2 WS, +2 S, +2 T, +1W, +1 A, faster movement, and is an EW. The Sorcerer...can hide in a squad. The Lord is in a similar place. A Daemon Weapon and hiding in a squad doesn't balance out the advantage a DP has. Sad but true.

2. On Sorcerers warptime is always good. On a Lord the Slanessh one seems nice. Blissgiver is really good. The Nurgle lord could be intriguing as well.

3. Yes. Possessed bits rock! Though I love the standard sorcerer models.

4. Special characters....they are bad. Abaddon is cool, but too pricey and just a slow beat stick. Kharn is a nice DP/Lord hybrid. The rest are trash.

5. Ahirman is bad. His powers aren't that great and he is so expensive.

According to JGrand, Kharn is trash.
That is news to me.
I do not praise fingers going faster than brain.

According to JGrand, Kharn is trash.
That is news to me.

4. Special characters....they are bad. Abaddon is cool, but too pricey and just a slow beat stick. Kharn is a nice DP/Lord hybrid. The rest are trash.

I said he was a nice DP/Lord hybrid. I never said he was trash. He is the most practical one of the special characters and a good value at 165 points.

Thanks for spelling correction devestator, never knew khorne and kharn where commonly spelt wrong

Sanctjud wrote:/shrug, what's wrong?
They seem fine enough.
Certainly the crazed table is a 'fun' rule for the dread, but it's not like it's 100% a handicap.

Blood Frenzy or Fire Frenzy are very powerful when you give more thought to positioning the dread throughout the game.

It just doesn't play like a loyalist dread, nor does it play how most want it to play.

there's nothing really wrong with it. there's nothing really great about it either. its just blah. unless someone is doing a zilla list with defilers and dreads I just dont see the point of this thing. plus it frags your own guys. unless you take special precautions. not fun. or useful... really.


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Devastator wrote:i dont really see the point of giving lord wings when he should be going with retinue within rhino/raider

really? I would never *not* give this guy wings. there are times when you want to split him off from the squad. if he's got a demon weapon he often times won't need their help anyway, especially late in the game.

Fragging your own guys isn't too bad.
They are either in a rhino, not spaced out, or Plague Marines. Granted they are still not doing a whole lot beside being low on the threat meter for your opponent.

The primary purpose for the dread is close infantry support and essetinally a Combat Armor that doesn't take up a heavy slot; doesn't suit the fancy of alot of people, including me.

Honestly, the Dread was one of the models that did not need to be 'changed' between codicies... the 3.5 Crazed table was perfectly fine.

Nasty combo, lash of submission+vindicator shell=pain.

My mate used this tactic against me many many times and has great potential. But then you can give lash to a daemon prince too!

Yeah, but that's just... spammy. When I use lash, I will occasionally use it like that, but not too often...

I've been looking at lords and their builds (I'll look at sorcs next) and saw some builds that looked good. What do you thiink of these? They are:

Wings, MoK, Daemon weapon, combi weapon

Wings, MOS, Daemon weapon, combi weapon

Wings, MoT, Daemon Weapon

Wings, Pair of LC

The lord I have as a model: PF and Combi Melta, in place of a champion.

FOr somereason, I just dislike MoN or Lords, and MoT is worse than on Sorcs. So I mostly keep with Slaanesh or Khorne

Khorne: I'm risk averse, so this is something I don't like fielding.

Slaanesh: the stuff worth IDing are immune, while str 4 is pretty meh and you are only likely to ID mid to low 'level' characters should you get into that situation.

Tzeentch: flexible, just a tiny bit less risky than the Khorne, but I'm not one for shooty lords.

PoLC: simple, cheap, and effective.

Nurgle Daemon Weapon is superior IMO with respect to butchering a wide range of opponents.

What about PF and a combi weapon?

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Yeah, but that's just... spammy. When I use lash, I will occasionally use it like that, but not too often...

I've been looking at lords and their builds (I'll look at sorcs next) and saw some builds that looked good. What do you thiink of these? They are:

Wings, MoK, Daemon weapon, combi weapon

Wings, MOS, Daemon weapon, combi weapon

Wings, MoT, Daemon Weapon

Wings, Pair of LC

The lord I have as a model: PF and Combi Melta, in place of a champion.

FOr somereason, I just dislike MoN or Lords, and MoT is worse than on Sorcs. So I mostly keep with Slaanesh or Khorne

well a demon weapon is pretty much the only reason to take a lord. if you just want close combat fighters princes are the stronger buy. sorcerers with warp time are also probably stronger. I'm opposed in principle to a lord with mark of tzeentch.... an ic with the mark of tzeentch should be a sorcerer. I dont think the unmarked demon weapon is strong either. getting +1 strength is fine but compared to rolling an extra dice or poisoned attacks? no that's not a good choice. the slaaneshi and khorne demon weapons are both fine. combi weapons are an auto include. AF


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also notice that you get your demon weapon at a discount if you buy terminator armor. you'll have to overcome mobility issues if you take this option but if you can work around that a lord in terminator armor is a solid buy.

Hmm... now I'm starting to like MoN! Pair of claws actually sounds good too. Keep in mind- I do know that Daemon princes are the best, just don't have any right now... sad, I know.

Hmm... now I'm starting to like MoN! Pair of claws actually sounds good too. Keep in mind- I do know that Daemon princes are the best, just don't have any right now... sad, I know.

You definitely want to make the most use of the I5 as you can. The claws are ok. As it has been said above, the only reason to take a Lord is for a Daemon Weapon. If not a Sorcerer with warptime is re-rolling all hits and wounds or ID'ing something.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:also notice that you get your demon weapon at a discount if you buy terminator armor. you'll have to overcome mobility issues if you take this option but if you can work around that a lord in terminator armor is a solid buy.

You don't actually get a discount, you just pay for a Power Weapon when you buy Terminator Armor so the Daemon Weapon costs less to upgrade because you have a more expensive base.

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Hmm... now I'm starting to like MoN! Pair of claws actually sounds good too. Keep in mind- I do know that Daemon princes are the best, just don't have any right now... sad, I know.

seems to me a pair of lightning claws could be demonically possessed just as well as a sword or an axe or whatever.

Okay, I can understand the Daemon wepon part, and as a risk taker- all or nothing for me!- I really enjoy them. So the question is (though Sanctjud already answered this partly, I want to hear other views) which is best in your opinion?

Personally, I've grown to like the nurgle one, though it is costly, and the slaanesh and khorne ones for cheapness (Khorne more so). TTzeentch is okay, and makes good use of that BS 5, but meh. If you want something shooty, there are better alternatives. It does save me taking a combi weapon, though.

A lord with a blood feeder can wipe whole squads of marines without breaking a sweat. I like the raw aggression of the weapon. there's greater risk its true but there's greater reward too. most of the time it wont flip out on you and you'll get a better result than rolling just 1 die. that being said the nurgle weapon is good too. the slaanesh weapon is more specialized. you want that guy (who is high initiative, remember) in combat with your opponent's general so that you can make the best possible use of his instant death rule. contrary to what was said earlier about the slaanesh demon weapon, the number of things in the game that have eternal warrior is decreasing with every new codex, so this thing is getting more useful all the time.

Huh. Point there. I guess the only one I'm against in prnciple is tzeentch's weapon. Also, starting Khorne conversions tonight!