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Therion wrote:

If they bring out n actual kit with dual TL-ACs for dread the Gk players well wet themselves.

Unless every GK player in the world needs 3-6 more Psyriflemen in addition to the 3-6 that they already own, I can't really see what you're saying.

They want ones they can bring to GW only tournaments without buying FW arms

Besides GW really loves dreadnoughts. We already have 4 loyalist ones, another one cant hurt! Especially to get all the official options in

Plus, lots of new players who previously resisted the allure of Grey Knights will surely be joining up now, given the Allies Rule Enticement!

Stop talking about things that arent chaos in this thread plskthx

Because the topic was broadened to include release schedule rumours:

stickmonkey wrote:Parasite and DoM are done and fine cast. Parasite is in a small box and DoM is a clam shell.

DoM is Doom of Malan'tai. And Harpy is in the wave of flyers it seems.

Kroothawk wrote:Because the topic was broadened to include release schedule rumours:

stickmonkey wrote:Parasite and DoM are done and fine cast. Parasite is in a small box and DoM is a clam shell.

DoM is Doom of Malan'tai. And Harpy is in the wave of flyers it seems.

What? Can you clarify this a little?

Stickmonkey predicted DoM and Parasite models a long time ago, now they are ready in finecast and wait for a release date.
The flyer wave that will come in the second half of this year will include the Hrrpy.

Kroothawk wrote:Because the topic was broadened to include release schedule rumours:

stickmonkey wrote:Parasite and DoM are done and fine cast. Parasite is in a small box and DoM is a clam shell.

DoM is Doom of Malan'tai. And Harpy is in the wave of flyers it seems.

Adding to the OP and the Tracking thread.

The "no cult terminators" thing sounds...silly. Obviously I wouldn't put it past GW to make a mistake like this, but it would still boggle my mind that they would miss such an obvious and longstanding community sore point.

Most of the other stuff sounds interesting, though not looking forward to hardcover books, not that I don't like a nicely done hardcover book, but carrying around a codex collection of hardcovers is a major PITA compared with softcover books.

Vaktathi wrote:The "no cult terminators" thing sounds...silly. Obviously I wouldn't put it past GW to make a mistake like this, but it would still boggle my mind that they would miss such an obvious and longstanding community sore point.

GW is probably just gonna say "Cult Termies? Aint that just termies with a chaos mark?"

The major telling point most people seem to be ignoring- this is all IMHO of course- is space availible in the new codex, Don't think for a moment that they can shove as many things as they want into a single codex. For a army to stay balanced they need to have options but putting in too many models in a single codex result in clutter and unused units. NTM units start to step on eachothers toes in terms of purpose see havocs vs oblitorators.

As we see Cultists coming out as a possible troop choice I definitly see Chaos cult marines being upgraded (or downgraded depending on how you look at it) to elites. There simply isn't enough space in the troop choice slot to allow 4 cults to stay in troop choice while we're also adding the cultists. Who may I remind you are themselves are supposed to branch off into multiple types when you chose sertain HQ's. This further damages the possiblity for Cult terminators unless you see them as a possible heavey choice (doubtful).

The funny thing is that Vanilla marines avoid this clutter in their codexs by printing individual codexs for various factions. So unless we see a CSM legions book split from a Chaos Cultist book we're unlikely to see cheap cult troops.

Havoks and oblits fulfill different uses though, and havoks can take 4 AC (an underused option if you ask me).

Currently there are five basic troop choices in the dex. Why cant we keep five basic troop choices.

As long as termis can have marks and they fix the issue with marks getting sniped out or costing too much if you have a small unit i will be pretty happy. I also wouldnt mind seeing the Fast Attack slot get a little love beyond Nurgle bikers, Khorn Raptors and the alleged dragon biplane (shudders at thought of how bad that thing could be).

sennacherib wrote:Havoks and oblits fulfill different uses though, and havoks can take 4 AC (an underused option if you ask me).

Currently there are five basic troop choices in the dex. Why cant we keep five basic troop choices.

As long as termis can have marks and they fix the issue with marks getting sniped out or costing too much if you have a small unit i will be pretty happy. I also wouldnt mind seeing the Fast Attack slot get a little love beyond Nurgle bikers, Khorn Raptors and the alleged dragon biplane (shudders at thought of how bad that thing could be).

If the mark actually gives the full benefit the cult troops had, then ok. For instance, mark of khorne not just giving +1atk, but also +1WS like khorne berzerkers have. And mark of nurgle not giving just +1T, but also FNP. And mark of tzeentch not just giving +1 to their invuln save, but also giving hellfire rounds like Thousand Sons have.

Vaktathi wrote:The "no cult terminators" thing sounds...silly. Obviously I wouldn't put it past GW to make a mistake like this, but it would still boggle my mind that they would miss such an obvious and longstanding community sore point.

Meh,
Khorne = Beserker terminators ?
Nurgle = T5 Terminators ?
Tzeench = W2 Termiantors ?
Slannesh = Slutty/noisy terminators ?

adamsouza wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:The "no cult terminators" thing sounds...silly. Obviously I wouldn't put it past GW to make a mistake like this, but it would still boggle my mind that they would miss such an obvious and longstanding community sore point.

Meh,
Khorne = Beserker terminators ?
Nurgle = T5 Terminators ?
Tzeench = W2 Termiantors ?
Slannesh = Slutty/noisy terminators ?

It'd probably be more like...

Khorne Terminators: Rage, Chainaxes, Furious Charge
Nurgle: T5, FNP, Stoic
Tzeentch: 4+ inv, Sorcerer leader, AP3 Bolters
Slaanesh: Sonic Weapons (with Torrent), I 5 (or 6)

sennacherib wrote:Havoks and oblits fulfill different uses though, and havoks can take 4 AC (an underused option if you ask me).

Currently there are five basic troop choices in the dex. Why cant we keep five basic troop choices.

As long as termis can have marks and they fix the issue with marks getting sniped out or costing too much if you have a small unit i will be pretty happy. I also wouldnt mind seeing the Fast Attack slot get a little love beyond Nurgle bikers, Khorn Raptors and the alleged dragon biplane (shudders at thought of how bad that thing could be).

The main point of my post is where do you fit everything? Where do you then fit the cultists especially considering they will change based on HQ choice? Where do you fit 4 versions of Cult terminators assuming the elite slot is already over burdoned with Marine cults? Assuming the new CC dedicated oblitorator is in where do you find space for them?

The up coming flier I'm not worried about until I actually get to see it and read its stats. There is no way to know if it'll be cool or suck, so why be so damn negitive? We haven't even seen the model let alone a stat line.

So are we supposed to get some new info tomorrow morning or what?

Therion wrote:So are we supposed to get some new info tomorrow morning or what?

He was quoting a rumer site, and I believe they dropped their rumers.

My worry about all the cult things, being a player of Word Bearers and Iron Warriors: I hope they don't leave Undivided out in the rain.

Cerebrium wrote:My worry about all the cult things, being a player of Word Bearers and Iron Warriors: I hope they don't leave Undivided out in the rain.

If 'cultists' are in, and rumors say they are, you can bet they'll be stuff for Alpha Legion and Word Bearers, so I'm thinking that Iron Warriors and Night Lords will be OK too!

Yeah, that was an issue with the Fantasy book, Unvidided/undedicated got nothing.

protonhunter wrote:

Therion wrote:So are we supposed to get some new info tomorrow morning or what?

He was quoting a rumer site, and I believe they dropped their rumers.

I thought that on the 2nd last Saturday of the month we'd know the next month's releases?

protonhunter wrote:]

The main point of my post is where do you fit everything? Where do you then fit the cultists especially considering they will change based on HQ choice? Where do you fit 4 versions of Cult terminators assuming the elite slot is already over burdoned with Marine cults? Assuming the new CC dedicated oblitorator is in where do you find space for them?

The up coming flier I'm not worried about until I actually get to see it and read its stats. There is no way to know if it'll be cool or suck, so why be so damn negitive? We haven't even seen the model let alone a stat line.

Thank you for giving them them the reality check. I think it's idiotic to want 4 nearly identical units just for the sake of having them. Even still IF elite cult units were included it make more thematic sense if they weren't just cookie cutters of the same concept. With 4 cults that are meant to have different beliefs and martial modus operandi why would their elite all end up favoring the exact same thing? Things like noise marine bikers in the vein of the doomrider, being an example... Or a sorcerer coven for thousand sons...both thematic elites not relying on the token inclusion of Terminator armor. Either way you're right there just isn't room for it. It's the sort of thing you'd have in a legion specific book but not a single unified codex.

Therion wrote:

protonhunter wrote:

Therion wrote:So are we supposed to get some new info tomorrow morning or what?

He was quoting a rumer site, and I believe they dropped their rumers.

I thought that on the 2nd last Saturday of the month we'd know the next month's releases?

It's...possible. I'd reckon next Saturday, but it's possible.

TBH legion specific codex is asking a lot from GW. a well done mark system would be sufficient to reduce clutter within the dex.

As far as the chaos flier goes, the thought of a dragon fighter plane just does not appeal to me. A fighter plane for chaos sounds great, but a machine modelled on a a mithical terran beast is a little childish seeming (coming from someone who plays with toy soldiers). The defiler is a demon possessed and it has almost no demonic creature look to it. If they go the same route it should be fine.

Vaktathi wrote:Yeah, that was an issue with the Fantasy book, Unvidided/undedicated got nothing.

Unless you count throgg and the other monsters.

Though the main problem about being unmarked in Fantasy is that....you're unmarked. There is no Undivided Mark so theres really no point in not taking any of the marks in fantasy if you had the option for marks. At least CSM has undivided mark, which assuringly will still be there

protonhunter wrote:The main point of my post is where do you fit everything? Where do you then fit the cultists especially considering they will change based on HQ choice? Where do you fit 4 versions of Cult terminators assuming the elite slot is already over burdoned with Marine cults? Assuming the new CC dedicated oblitorator is in where do you find space for them?

Exactly. I don't even see why we need cults at all. I think GW have made a big mistake creating all these cult marines in the first place. Take Thousand Sons for instance. Do they really need their own unit entry? None of the other legions get their own entry. I don't see why they can't be represented using the chaos space marine entry. Afterall, when you get down to it aren't they really just chaos space marines with bolters? So just take chaos space marines and give them bolters. Done. What do they lose? Inferno bolts? That's just a made-up rule that didn't even exist last edition. It's not even represented on the models!

In fact, they should get rid of all the clutter and just roll all the cult marines into the CSM entry. Berzerkers = CSMs w/ bolt pistols + ccws painted red. Plague marines = CSMs w/ bolters + special weapons painted green. Noise marines? Don't even get me started. Why can't they use regular guns like everybody else? I'm sure lots of real life soldiers like the heavy metal but you don't see them running around trying to shoot the Taliban with their guitars do you?

This would also solve the problem of having so many out of date models. You wouldn't need separate boxes for cult marines if they were the same as regular CSM ruleswise. They could finally retire the plastic gorilla-hand berzerkers too. Do we really need different rules and models for every little thing? What ever happened to creativity? You want Thousand Sons? Just get a box of chaos space marines and paint them blue. Done.

Streamlining the codex would also make it more accessible to new players. Right now it's just too hopelessly complex! We have noise marines and plague marines and chaos space marines and, and, and...! It makes my head spin just thinking about it! Imagine how little Johnny must feel. Just the other day I tried to introduce my nephew to the game, but he just threw my chaos codex on the floor and wouldn't stop crying until his mother came in and changed his diaper. And my sister says he's really smart for his age! Are you listening GW? You just lost another potential customer with your needlessly complicated chaos codex! I mean do we really need five(!) different kinds of chaos icons? Why can't we have just one? Icon of Chaos: grants fearless. Done. Much easier to remember.

With some consolidation and simplification I think CSM could be a really good "little brother" army to their "big brother" space marines. By getting rid of a lot of the pointless hard-to-remember options they could make chaos space marines a nice starter army for younger players - sort of like a simpler version of the space marines. Luckily I think GW is moving in this direction already, what with CSM in the starter set and all. Afterall we all know that big brother Johnny is going to get the space marines while little brother Timmy gets to play the chaos space marines - just like how I always got the autobots when I played transformers with my little brother. Of course they might want to tone down some of the more questionable aspects of the background that might not be suitable for the target demographic - parents might not want their young child playing an army of daemon-worshippers afterall - but then if you want daemons you can just play chaos daemons, right? Anyway I'm sure chaos space marines will still make compelling antagonists even without the chaos gods. Afterall, Cobra Commander was an excellent villian without ever worshipping any dark gods - in fact, I don't think I can even recall him ever killing anyone!

Yeah... Maybe... If you're one of those few people who wants GW to be more about toys and less about a hobby or game. I don't want to see an argument about the dumbing down for children when the opposite is made very apparent by GW's newest edition being a more involved rule set.

Thousand sons were changed to "rubric warriors" precisely so they weren't legion specific.

You're obviously not a fan of chaos and don't grasp the concept, at all. You're mindset is the "I gave myself to the ruinous powers and all I got was a t-shirt." It's a poor one that moves in the opposite direction sapping flavor and distinctiveness from aesymetrically balanced factions in favor of something that is more limited. You may be a fan of the models and game but I see no way you can be fan of the setting and say that.

You think Doobie's post is serious?

That was your first mistake...

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Afterall, Cobra Commander was an excellent villian without ever worshipping any dark gods - in fact, I don't think I can even recall him ever killing anyone!

Didnt he nuke Moscow in one of the recent cartoons though?

But anyways gw's unpredictability can make all roads possible. Maybe they will dumb down, maybe they wont. Depends on how much Tzeetnch cares I guess

H.B.M.C. wrote

You think Doobie's post is serious?

That was your first mistake...

To be fair, I myself was quite terrified until the 3rd paragraph