Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I put this in a PM, but I'm not worried if people see it, I just need help . So I'm going to copy it into this thread:

This is a fantastic thread! Would anyone mind sharing their thoughts on 2 sample lists I've sketched out for the tyranid players for our AdeptiCon team tournament lists? These are 1000 point lists. The rules are, each player gets 1 HQ, 3 Troop, 1 Fast, 1 Elite, 1 Heavy. One team member can have an extra fast, another an extra elite, another an extra heavy, and the last a fortification. Below, one list uses the fortification, the other the extra heavy, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Base to possibly include in both lists:

Tyrant, wings, 2 x TL brainleech devourers - 230
Tervigon - 195
30 Gaunts - 120
Total - 545

For List 1, I might consider adding:

Venomthrope - 45
Bastion - 75
2 x Carnifex with 2x TL brainleech devourerers - 300

Puts me at 965, so room to upgrade something (devourers for gaunts, a gun for the Bastion if allowed, etc). The fexes are expensive, as is the Bastion trick... I was wishing I could fit in some Gargoyles to screen for the fexes. But I can only do so if I don't get the Bastion (in which case I could fit in 18 gargoyles) and then the Venomthrope won't live.

I was thinking the other nid list might do well with using the second heavy support slot.

So for List 2, I might consider adding:

Mawloc - 140
Mawloc - 140
20 Gargoyles - 120
1 Zoanthrope or Hive Guard - 50 or 55

Puts it at 995 or 1000 (with the Flyrant, Tervigon, and 30 Gaunts from above).

I'm kind of stumped as to whether these would be good or not... any tips appreciated!

I see two things that I like a lot in this "new" codex.

A lot of units have had a small price reduction.

A lot of units may have you buy weapon upgrades in different batches. (Warriors, shrikes, termagaunts.) That way every unit can include some cannon fodder to just eat away shots.

This is good. The problem the old codex was that everything was to exspensive. By the time you made mellee range you where out of models.

 RiTides wrote:
I put this in a PM, but I'm not worried if people see it, I just need help . So I'm going to copy it into this thread:

This is a fantastic thread! Would anyone mind sharing their thoughts on 2 sample lists I've sketched out for the tyranid players for our AdeptiCon team tournament lists? These are 1000 point lists. The rules are, each player gets 1 HQ, 3 Troop, 1 Fast, 1 Elite, 1 Heavy. One team member can have an extra fast, another an extra elite, another an extra heavy, and the last a fortification. Below, one list uses the fortification, the other the extra heavy, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Base to possibly include in both lists:

Tyrant, wings, 2 x TL brainleech devourers - 230
Tervigon - 195
30 Gaunts - 120
Total - 545

For List 1, I might consider adding:

Venomthrope - 45
Bastion - 75
2 x Carnifex with 2x TL brainleech devourerers - 300

Puts me at 965, so room to upgrade something (devourers for gaunts, a gun for the Bastion if allowed, etc). The fexes are expensive, as is the Bastion trick... I was wishing I could fit in some Gargoyles to screen for the fexes. But I can only do so if I don't get the Bastion (in which case I could fit in 18 gargoyles) and then the Venomthrope won't live.

I was thinking the other nid list might do well with using the second heavy support slot.

So for List 2, I might consider adding:

Mawloc - 140
Mawloc - 140
20 Gargoyles - 120
1 Zoanthrope or Hive Guard - 50 or 55

Puts it at 995 or 1000 (with the Flyrant, Tervigon, and 30 Gaunts from above).

I'm kind of stumped as to whether these would be good or not... any tips appreciated!

I would suggest List 1 over List 2.

Both are very light on synapse and that's gonna kill you. However, to outweigh that, the 36 TL S6 shots will wreck most people's day....AND you can't threaten Land Raiders.

List 2 can threaten them, but not as reliably.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Iirc aren't you only allowed one Stranglethorn Cannon though? Can't do the gunboat Fex. They killed that after 4th.

 jy2 wrote:

Carnifexes may only take 1 stranglethorn canon.

I gather I'm missing something obvious here... but I don't see why you can't take 2.

Carnifexes come with two pairs of scything talons. The only restriction on swapping talons is on crushing claws. The relevant dot point simply says "Any model may take items from the Monstrous Bio-cannons and Biomorphs list".

The monstrous bio-cannons list then says "A model may replace any pair of scything talons with one of the following."

So I don't see why you can't take two... unless you interpret the monstrous bio-cannons intro to limit it... in which case a Flyrant can't have two TL devs.

 DexKivuli wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Iirc aren't you only allowed one Stranglethorn Cannon though? Can't do the gunboat Fex. They killed that after 4th.

 jy2 wrote:

Carnifexes may only take 1 stranglethorn canon.

I gather I'm missing something obvious here... but I don't see why you can't take 2.

Carnifexes come with two pairs of scything talons. The only restriction on swapping talons is on crushing claws. The relevant dot point simply says "Any model may take items from the Monstrous Bio-cannons and Biomorphs list".

The monstrous bio-cannons list then says "A model may replace any pair of scything talons with one of the following."

So I don't see why you can't take two... unless you interpret the monstrous bio-cannons intro to limit it... in which case a Flyrant can't have two TL devs.

The supertext annotation says you can't take 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RiTides wrote:

Tyrant, wings, 2 x TL brainleech devourers - 230
Tervigon - 195
30 Gaunts - 120
Total - 545

For List 1, I might consider adding:

Venomthrope - 45
Bastion - 75
2 x Carnifex with 2x TL brainleech devourerers - 300

Puts me at 965, so room to upgrade something (devourers for gaunts, a gun for the Bastion if allowed, etc). The fexes are expensive, as is the Bastion trick... I was wishing I could fit in some Gargoyles to screen for the fexes. But I can only do so if I don't get the Bastion (in which case I could fit in 18 gargoyles) and then the Venomthrope won't live.

List one is very similar to a build I am making for Adepticon...

 DexKivuli wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Iirc aren't you only allowed one Stranglethorn Cannon though? Can't do the gunboat Fex. They killed that after 4th.

 jy2 wrote:

Carnifexes may only take 1 stranglethorn canon.

I gather I'm missing something obvious here... but I don't see why you can't take 2.

Carnifexes come with two pairs of scything talons. The only restriction on swapping talons is on crushing claws. The relevant dot point simply says "Any model may take items from the Monstrous Bio-cannons and Biomorphs list".

The monstrous bio-cannons list then says "A model may replace any pair of scything talons with one of the following."

So I don't see why you can't take two... unless you interpret the monstrous bio-cannons intro to limit it... in which case a Flyrant can't have two TL devs.

There is a little 1 next to the weapon, which corresponds with a note at the end of the biomorphs saying the model may only take one of these weapons.

Thanks, roxor08. It does seem hard to get synapse with the AdeptiCon team tourney restrictions, I'll think about it. Here's an alternate:

Tyrant, wings, 2 x TL brainleech devourers - 230
Tervigon - 195
30 Gaunts - 120
Crone - 155
2 x Carnifex with 2x TL brainleech devourerers - 300
Total - 1000

Or I could drop a Carnifex for 3 Zoanthropes for more synapse . Would that help, or is the loss of the Carnifex not worth it?

Finally, am I reading things right that people are thinking that running Carnifexes out of synapse is OK? Or at least, if they're their own unit, rather than paired together? That's very interesting.

Can you move when you fail instinctive behavior? I didn't see anything that said you couldn't.

If so, that means that you can just have a carni go solo without synapse, and just mindlessly eat everyone.

He just won't be able to shoot.

rigeld2 wrote:
He just won't be able to shoot.

No problem. Just don't give him a gun

I don't see too much worry if your fail leadership. Even if there are 2 fexs, the hits are at AP-, so you would still get the 3+ armor. If it was at AP2, then I would see the problem. I've also had really good luck in my first 2 matches with the new dex passing leadership the 3 times I needed it.

I wonder how well a regeneration spam list would fare.

 jy2 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Two S6 hits vs t7 seems like a poor plan anyways.

Unless you want to force the mishap. Besides, there should be other units nearby and in base with the quad-gun anyways. All you need to do is to get rid of those and your flyers are free to come in interceptor-free.

Personally, I'd deepstrike the Mawloc to hit the unit manning the quad-gun itself, with the blast marker touching the quad-gun as well. Of course if I kill the quad-gun, then consider it collateral damage.

While I love the Mawloc and will most likely be using it, a lot of these posts are assuming that you do not scatter off of the target unit. I can tell you, I used the mawloc 4 times in the prev book and scattered off the target unit EVERY time. I think we need to keep in mind that we are talking best case scenario on all of this


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:
On a side note, how are others feelings about using the skyshield to protect FMC like crones. Its a flat 4++ so it could be big for a pair of flyrants or crones to stage an attack from if you positioned it forward enough and center.

The more I consider it, the more I feel I will need to get a skyshield; this just appears too good not to use it

no doom you say? : D

Thinking about this for a 1750 tourney list that has restrictions (main one being maximum 2 flyers allowed)

Brainleech flyrant, hive Commander
Tyranid prime

Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope

5 x genestealers with brood lord
5 x genestealers with brood lord
20 x gaunts

2 x dakkafexxes
3 x dakkafexxes
Mawloc

Prime is warlord and attached to the fexxes. Gaunts screen them, the zoeys and venomthrope as they plod up the table. Flyrant does what he usually does. Genestealers infiltrate where possible and use the horror to help protect the dakkefexes etc or camp objectives with one brood outflanking if needed

I don't play nids at the moment, but I've been reading through the thread and I have to say some of the builds are rather scary. It also looks like some of them would be rather cheap it build (compared to last edition's builds and current ones), especially if the release deals are still up.

I'm not sure if this has been answered already.

And obviously, opinion may be that it's a dumb points sink, but...

I can't find the rule that says I can't have a walking HT joining a brood of three Carnifex... can someone point me to the BRB or codex page?

EDIT: Also, am I reading something wrong when I see that the Norn Crown makes his Synapse range 18", which added to the Primaris power is 24", and could potentially be 30" Synapse range off one HT, with a lucky Warlord roll?

 Loyalwatcher wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been answered already.

And obviously, opinion may be that it's a dumb points sink, but...

I can't find the rule that says I can't have a walking HT joining a brood of three Carnifex... can someone point me to the BRB or codex page?

It's not an independent character, just a character. Only Independent Characters may leave and join units during the game.

You are correct with the 30" synapse.

I used to run a prime and swarmlord, with the prime as HQ who would deny slay the warlord from the enemy by hiding in units. I've just realised if I do this now, swarmlord looses his 18" synapse.

Ahh, I see. Thanks for both answers

So are spinefists good weapons to give Gaunts now? i've noticed many lists taking them now, when in 5th you would never take them. Are they really that much better than the standard fleshborers now?

 jy2 wrote:
Lol. Sometimes, stranger things have happened. BTW, did you kill all the models that you came up on? If so, then he's kind of done his job.

Didn't kill a single one, I was able to safely place him 2" away from his models.

He did survive a turn of shooting and charge them though eventually did his job.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So are spinefists good weapons to give Gaunts now? i've noticed many lists taking them now, when in 5th you would never take them. Are they really that much better than the standard fleshborers now?

In general, yes. They're roughly equal on T4 targets, better on T3 and T7, worse on T5 (if I remember the math in this thread right).

Just want to say a big thank you to JY2 for doing this thread. I am still in shock of the new codex, but reading this makes me feel a little better... I still think nids are going to have a hard time competitively against Tau and Eldar.. Thanks again

In general when you can fit 9 MC easily (that's relative) into a 1750 list, that is just... really difficult for your opponent. You essentially make your opponent worry about problem pieces, then once they deal with those, they almost have to go after your troops because there is not a great chance that anyone could take down 9 MC. I think that although there are some slight plunders with the new Nids codex, it is far from down and out. When played under the hands of a skilled player like jy2, those bugs will do some real damage. I think that Tyranids are not as great as the top (Eldar, Daemons, Tau, Crons) but I think that its fair to say they are a good runner up. I too appreciate the time that has been put into this thread, and I look forward to seeing what happens after the "dust" settles, to see what lists emerge as almighty. I am going to post a list that I have been working on with none other than... ImotekhTheStormlord. It should be relatively standard, and hope we can get some good suggestions on it.

Spinefists are worse than fleshborer against some toughness values, T7 obviously because they can't put a wound, and T5. Against T6, both wound on but spinefists take the edge thanks to rerolls to hit. Equal on T4, slight advantage towards T3 for spinefists. The main differences will be against light vehicles, which fleshborer have a little chance to glance, but having to shoot on vehicles with gaunts is quite an extreme possibility, isn't it ? On the other hand, in situations where you have to rely on snapshots (pinned out of synapse, GTG, against FMC, receiving a charge), spinefists are vastly superior : 30% chance to hit VS 17%.
IMHO, prices being identical, I would take spinefists any day.
The only reason I see to to model some termagant miniatures with fleshborers, is because the Tervigon still spawns only this version... dumb.

Am i reading bad the codex or is it possible to give 2x twinlinked devourer with brain worms to a carnifex?
that would be 12 rerollable shots at str 6 for each fex....
if we add regen it could make the fexes kinda mobile shooting platforms....

or am i misisng something?

Spine fists are a great tip! just confirmed the maths for myself. Desperation is the only thing that leads me to shoot at anything T5-6 or greater (or AV10+) with my gaunt's so they are a very good option.

There is a fair amount of Tau lately in my area too and causing another 4 (ish) wounds per 30 gaunt's is awesome!

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
Just want to say a big thank you to JY2 for doing this thread. I am still in shock of the new codex, but reading this makes me feel a little better... I still think nids are going to have a hard time competitively against Tau and Eldar.. Thanks again

... and your point is?? (Everything has a problem competing against Tau and Eldar!)

badula wrote:
Am i reading bad the codex or is it possible to give 2x twinlinked devourer with brain worms to a carnifex?
that would be 12 rerollable shots at str 6 for each fex....
if we add regen it could make the fexes kinda mobile shooting platforms....

or am i misisng something?

Yes you can, and you could with the last codex too.

Hive Tyrant can do the same.